Agri-tourism in Ireland

Muckit

Has anyone any experience of this in Ireland? ie farmhouse bed and breakfast or self catering houses in a rural farm setting?

I'm sure their are loads of people in Ireland at it. I love the idea of doing this with my partner someday. I'm sure like with most farm related enterprises the return might not be great when all is taken into account, but i'd love to give it a go and show foreign tourists travelling to ireland just what food/hospitality this country has to offer, while hopefully at the same time being able to earn a few quid.

Yes I know we don't get the weather, but anyone wanting to come to Ireland doesn't do so for the weather. It's the Irish 'Cead mille Failte' and the 'craic' and lively social scene, the 'green' scenic countryside and our native cuisine.

I think if more farmers could offer their produce directly to the customer, there would perhaps be more of a chance of a better return (or some return!)

Just back from a trip to tuscany, Italy and did the whole agri-tourism thing, it's big business there. Like you all, I Iove the whole farming lifestyle and I love everything around food (hence the trip to tuscany). If I could combine both it'd be my idea of heaven.

Breakfasts over there were mostly made from home produce, fresh boiled eggs, homemade jams, breads, hams and cheeses. Fresh fruit with homemade yoghurt. I definitely think it's something that could be adapted and done irish style.

What ye lads/lassies think?

p.s. I now know why the italian farmers can pay big money for Irish belgian blue weanlings...... their 'bistecca alla fiorentina' (grilled T-bone steak) is sold in restaurants for €40/kg!! and it's not unusual to order a steak 1kg in weight!;))

Red Sheds

I don’t have any experience of this business but have considered it too, as we have an old place that is really quaint, mature trees, 200 years old etc. There are lots of guesthouses and B & B in Ireland, and on farms too. The thing about it right now in my view is that many are the same as they were 20 or 30 years ago. They need to modernise in terms of what’s offered to the visitor. For example I know of very few that offer the quality local food like you experienced in Tuscany. I have been to Tuscany a few times and stayed in the farm houses as well, they are very good, of course one Tuscany is known world wide as a food destination and that’s not by accident, it was a conscious decision by the regional government to promote food as a key product and tourism product there in the 1960’s and 70’s.

As regards the returns, in a guesthouse right now, to me it doesn’t stack up, you could get B & B this summer for €25 per person, less in places due to declines in visitor numbers, down 12.5% this year and 9% last year. The other issue is of course all the NAMA hotels with rock bottom rates are driving the prices down. Until there is some of the excess hotel rooms gone, the rates for guesthouses will find it hard to recover. B & B houses only recorded occupancy levels of 23% from January to June this year, Hotels were at 50%, so you can see the hammering they are getting.

But you are very right when you identify that the you have to offer something different and unique if you run a guest house type operation, like the local food, the on farm experience, the craic etc. If you are going to compete purely as just providing accommodation, then you are never going to be able to beat the hotels, as they have the budgets for marketing, the leisure centres etc. Therefore you have to beat them where they can’t compete. Remember that the B & B is a concept that was invested in Ireland and is hugely popular among overseas visitors like the US, French and Germans. Its not that popular among the Irish. The Overseas visitors want a genuine Irish experience and where better than in someone’s house.

I probably haven’t much encouragement to you, but I firmly believe that if you done any business right, it will work and be profitable. So you have to be different, offer an integrated experience to the tourist like including the local unique food, local guides etc. If you are located in a tourist area, that’s well known for fishing for example, set yourself up to cater for the needs of the anglers so to attract them in. I also believe that quality is really important, have the best of everything to offer. Best of luck with it, Let us know if you move with it, might come and stay.

blue5000

I think you'd need to have enough room for a paddy wagon load(12-16 ppl)
size of tourists, either in a converted stone barn or in a tourism co-op locally. I reckon it's the way to go, provide good value, good food and good activities to young people in their 20's and you'll get them coming back with families in a few yrs. Just my opinion, but at the moment this country is way overpriced, did you get good value for money in Tuscanny?

MrPint

Hello all,
as above poster said this country is way over priced. We do a bit of agri tourism, on the quiet of course. We had thought about getting doing it by the approved way but those blood suckers will charge an arm and a leg for everthing making it hardly worth your time. Keep away from failte ireland and all the other gov backed tourism boards and try to advertise yourself over the net in different countries. thats where we have had the best results. dont rip the people off that come and they will come back time and time again. we do b&b and self catering.
the only thing ya have to watch for is that people are made aware that it is a wroking farm( if thats the case), most kids and things will want to see animals and such so explain to them this is possible but to be care full, especially if there is machinery around aswell.
It gives great satisfaction to a person seeing city folks getting to know where there foods come from, ya would be real suprised at some of their reactions and comments.

all the best

Mr Pint

pakalasa

It's one thing to do it on the quiet, but what if someone has an accident on the farm. Are you covered?

MrPint

hello,
yes we have a public liablilty insurance, its a must. what i mean by on the quiet is dont go for all the glossy crap spurted out by the tourism board they are only after a cut(its the middle man thing). they have no intention of advancing tourism in ireland. after all they are run by the government which overseen the 10e airport tax and all their other failed schemes, no regulation on hotel building etc.
go direct for your source:), it allows you to keep costs a a minimum and there for not have to charge and arm and leg to your costumer.
all the best

Mr Pint

haybob

The idea of the ''city folk'' getting to know where their food comes form is noble but at the moment I'd imagine a lot of people are worried about the price of it rather than where it comes from.

The small independent operators are being squeezed at the moment by the zombie operators, you can now get a self catering cottage in popular areas for between €100 and €150 a week. You can’t ignore the authorities unfortunately especially regarding fire, health and safety and food hygiene and all have costs associated with them.

If I was doing it I wouldn't be overly concerned with failte Ireland either, if someone was planning to go big enough to accommodate buses I'd be off to the company to meet their standard first.

Now is probably the time to buy your property but I'd be very reluctant to make a large investment in accommodation facilities at the moment the US and UK economies are still only middling and they will be your two biggest markets along with you own and we all know the state we are in but after all that if your going to do keep it clean basic and cheap and talk to the people

MrPint

Hello Haybob,
I agree with you that there are many associated costs such as fire, food heygine and all that. but here is may argument and i know its a little off topic apologies.
No-one in my family has ever had food poisoning or such from our kitchen, yet the experts from the HSE or what ever department the in would deem the kitchen unfit for cooking for others? why is that?
i cant bring in potatoes (veg) etc from the field/garden and wash thm in the kitchen if cooking for others? why is that.
i cant cooking my own beef/lamb fro these people? why not.
I know how to be hygenic around food without all that colour coded cutting boards and other crap.
These requlations are made for the idiots that enforce them. They are dumbing people down to an extent that is incredible.
it is a money making scheme for the departments, and we the people are accepting everthing feed to use. can you see the french or italians accepting this?
the food is so expensive in ireland because of all the middle men and unwarented regulation. buy direct from the source and it will be cheaper. go directly to the farmer.
but sure we all know that if the spud is not bought from a plastic bag and its washed we would all die

all the best

Mr Pint

ps think ill start a seperate thread about food.

Muckit

Red Sheds wrote: »

I don’t have any experience of this business but have considered it too, as we have an old place that is really quaint, mature trees, 200 years old etc. There are lots of guesthouses and B & B in Ireland, and on farms too. The thing about it right now in my view is that many are the same as they were 20 or 30 years ago. They need to modernise in terms of what’s offered to the visitor. For example I know of very few that offer the quality local food like you experienced in Tuscany. I have been to Tuscany a few times and stayed in the farm houses as well, they are very good, of course one Tuscany is known world wide as a food destination and that’s not by accident, it was a conscious decision by the regional government to promote food as a key product and tourism product there in the 1960’s and 70’s.

As regards the returns, in a guesthouse right now, to me it doesn’t stack up, you could get B & B this summer for €25 per person, less in places due to declines in visitor numbers, down 12.5% this year and 9% last year. The other issue is of course all the NAMA hotels with rock bottom rates are driving the prices down. Until there is some of the excess hotel rooms gone, the rates for guesthouses will find it hard to recover. B & B houses only recorded occupancy levels of 23% from January to June this year, Hotels were at 50%, so you can see the hammering they are getting.

But you are very right when you identify that the you have to offer something different and unique if you run a guest house type operation, like the local food, the on farm experience, the craic etc. If you are going to compete purely as just providing accommodation, then you are never going to be able to beat the hotels, as they have the budgets for marketing, the leisure centres etc. Therefore you have to beat them where they can’t compete. Remember that the B & B is a concept that was invested in Ireland and is hugely popular among overseas visitors like the US, French and Germans. Its not that popular among the Irish. The Overseas visitors want a genuine Irish experience and where better than in someone’s house.

I probably haven’t much encouragement to you, but I firmly believe that if you done any business right, it will work and be profitable. So you have to be different, offer an integrated experience to the tourist like including the local unique food, local guides etc. If you are located in a tourist area, that’s well known for fishing for example, set yourself up to cater for the needs of the anglers so to attract them in. I also believe that quality is really important, have the best of everything to offer. Best of luck with it, Let us know if you move with it, might come and stay.

Thank you Red sheds for your reply

You have made some very valid and interesting points. You are right (I think) in saying that visitors to our country are looking for an 'authentic' Irish experience when (and if) they come to holiday here. Maybe it's just me, but when I go on holiday abroad, I like to (at least think) that I am experiencing/living like the natives for a week or so! (naivity is great:D)

Hotels are very impersonal places and apart from the weather, they are basically the same around most of Europe at least. So why would one want to stay in them if something better could be offered? I suppose the key word there is BETTER. What better way to experience a near authentic version of rural irsih life than to stay on a farm?

Advertising is key alright I would think, and the web seems to be where all businesses need to be doing it, especially to attract foreign tourists.

As regards food, I think we don't give ourselves enough credit. In my books we are experts at producing quality food. Our native fruit n' veg, milk and meat products are up there with some of the finest in the world.

I just think that we (and maybe it's not a bad thing) have become too multi cultural as regards food, at the expense of our own local traditional foods and Irish cooking methods. I noticed it more so while in Tuscany. 90% of restaurants only served traditional italian food ie. pasta, pizzas etc etc. Chinese/indian restaurants were next to non exsistant, Our country here is over run with them!:rolleyes: Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good chinese on a Friday night as good as the next man/woman, but why are we not justly proud of our foods and why are we not able to offer good fresh, SIMPLE Irish food at a decent price?? Dry cured hams and bacons are big in italy....... but i ask, where or when did we lose our love of the pig?? Every rural house had one not so many years ago, wouldn't it be nice to show our foreign visitors this traditional irish dish?? (I use this only as one of many examples of where we have lost track IMO)

P.s. I am looking into buying/changing property at the moment so it's just something that's in my head at the moment, but if/when I go with it, there would of course be a discount for all boards.ie members

Muckit

blue5000 wrote: »

I think you'd need to have enough room for a paddy wagon load(12-16 ppl)
size of tourists, either in a converted stone barn or in a tourism co-op locally. I reckon it's the way to go, provide good value, good food and good activities to young people in their 20's and you'll get them coming back with families in a few yrs. Just my opinion, but at the moment this country is way overpriced, did you get good value for money in Tuscanny?

Hi blue5000

Converted stone farm barns were indeed typical of the accommodation offered in Tuscany. And this would be what I would have in mind if I moved with this. I would start off slow though and definitely go down the self catering route first (have a converted old building/shed near my dwelling house) so that myself and the girlfriend could keep on our day jobs (it wasn't the part time farming income that paid our way to Italy!:D) That waywe could gauge the interest before, if we thought it would work, offering full B&B, which would involve one or both of us giving up the day job.

As regards value, I think we did.

• Accommodation €70-80 for a double room (ensuite) including breakfast (this isn't standard in all farm stays) The places were immaculate though
• Simple sandwich for lunch €2 (ham and thick cuts of cheese)
• typical pasta dishes €6 vegitarian €8-€11 for meat dishes for evening dinner
• €6-7 for a litre jug of wine poured straight from the barrel (there's only 750ml I think in a bottle)
• We got a1L bottle of water in a spar shop over there for 17c!!! I kid you not, we kept the receipt!

Muckit

MrPint wrote: »

Hello all,
as above poster said this country is way over priced. We do a bit of agri tourism, on the quiet of course. We had thought about getting doing it by the approved way but those blood suckers will charge an arm and a leg for everthing making it hardly worth your time. Keep away from failte ireland and all the other gov backed tourism boards and try to advertise yourself over the net in different countries. thats where we have had the best results. dont rip the people off that come and they will come back time and time again. we do b&b and self catering.
the only thing ya have to watch for is that people are made aware that it is a wroking farm( if thats the case), most kids and things will want to see animals and such so explain to them this is possible but to be care full, especially if there is machinery around aswell.
It gives great satisfaction to a person seeing city folks getting to know where there foods come from, ya would be real suprised at some of their reactions and comments.

all the best

Mr Pint

Helllo Mr Pint

I think you are dead right, people do like to see where thinks come from, it puts things in perspective. Just seeing the grapes hanging off the vines was lovely to see all over tuscany.

Insurance would be something to watch/consider alright.

Muckit

pakalasa wrote: »

It's one thing to do it on the quiet, but what if someone has an accident on the farm. Are you covered?

Hi Pakalasa

Ya you are right, insurance would have to be looked into. No skimping there

Muckit

haybob wrote: »

The idea of the ''city folk'' getting to know where their food comes form is noble but at the moment I'd imagine a lot of people are worried about the price of it rather than where it comes from.

The small independent operators are being squeezed at the moment by the zombie operators, you can now get a self catering cottage in popular areas for between €100 and €150 a week. You can’t ignore the authorities unfortunately especially regarding fire, health and safety and food hygiene and all have costs associated with them.

If I was doing it I wouldn't be overly concerned with failte Ireland either, if someone was planning to go big enough to accommodate buses I'd be off to the company to meet their standard first.

Now is probably the time to buy your property but I'd be very reluctant to make a large investment in accommodation facilities at the moment the US and UK economies are still only middling and they will be your two biggest markets along with you own and we all know the state we are in but after all that if your going to do keep it clean basic and cheap and talk to the people

Hi Haybob

Yes the US would IMO still be Ireland's biggest market. Florence and Siena were crawling with them and they were spending big bucks on presents etc. As much as there accent can annoy me sometimes, I think I'd put up with it if i thought i could get enough of them to stay and open their wallet to me!!:rolleyes:

But I think the main thing would be that we need to loose the opportunist side to us Irish, with trying to charge as much as possible. it is very short sighted. As mentioned by other posters, it's the repeat business that one should be looking for

johngalway

Regulations, a lot of which are not really needed (how many small butchers folded with the stainless steel sh1t?), insurance and other associated costs makes it extremely hard for this country to be affordable.

Muckit

johngalway wrote: »

Regulations, a lot of which are not really needed (how many small butchers folded with the stainless steel sh1t?), insurance and other associated costs makes it extremely hard for this country to be affordable.

You dead right Johngalway

Too much red tape in this country, for what?

In saying that I'm glad our electrics are regulated under the B.S. standards! Light switches and 220V plugs were inside in every bathroom in italy!!! The girlfriend thought it was a great idea though cos she could use her hairdryer in front of the mirror!!!:D

Red Sheds

Some really good points made here, Mr. Pint your points about the food preparation issues and the regulations, I agree with you, we have over the top regulation in this country in too many things, mostly in areas that affect the small business and burden them with costs. We would'nt be in all this Sh1t if the regulation was implemented where it mattered most, the banks and property tax breaks which we are all now paying for as well. Most of the mainland European countries would stand for this, they retain their customs and traditions. Walk into a bar in Navarra or Basque country of Spain and see the cured legs of ham, hanging over the counter, dripping down grease and every one smoking, it tastes delicious and I never got sick from it, get wine straight from a barrell in Italy and so on.

Food prices abroad in restaurants are very reasonable for very good quality and mostly local fare as Muckit stated. You will see right across Italy, Spain, France etc, small farmer owned wine, olive oil, fish, and food cooperatives growing for local and tourism markets and it helps the local farmers make a decent living. Ireland the home of the co-ops and we dont really have many of these left, makes you think it might be time to start looking at going back that way a little, i.e. going full circle.

Marketing in tourism is about 2 things right now using the internet effectively, forget print advertising and brochures, they are dead and outstanding customer service to get repeat business and referrals.

Birdnuts

All I know is that were light years behind out near neighbours when it comes to this kind of thing - I blame all the BS and arrogance that was the hallmark of the Celtic Tiger for this - it led many people in authority and elsewhere to think that the only tourist to be catered for were the corporate fat cats in over priced 5 star golf and country clubs that now litter the place, mostly empty, closed or repossesed:(

Muckit

Birdnuts

I fear that we've ruined the great unque colourful little towns and villages and their character that we once had. They were quaint, and tourists loved them.

Now, as you say, their 'littered' by scaggly unfinished and unnecessary 'modern' housing estates and hotels.

Red sheds who've hit the nail on the head there are regards advertising.

We need to get back to basics in this country.... less is more, materialism is short lived (as this recession has shown).

Our warm and likeable Irish personality is something we can choose not to let the recession take from us

haybob

It's like killing pigs and making black pudding, you 100% correct in your post but your still wrong as the EHO will just close you down. The department of tourism and falty Ireland decided to concentrate on gaining a market share in for the golf resorts and 5 star hotels and forgot about B&B's, hostels, self catering and family operated hotels now our tourism sector is paying the piper.

The French negotiated this with the EU see pate foie gras, champagne etc as did the Italians with their sausages and we can't even make a black pudding for sale sure it's annoying but remember the SFP

MrPint wrote: »

Hello Haybob,
I agree with you that there are many associated costs such as fire, food heygine and all that. but here is may argument and i know its a little off topic apologies.
No-one in my family has ever had food poisoning or such from our kitchen, yet the experts from the HSE or what ever department the in would deem the kitchen unfit for cooking for others? why is that?
i cant bring in potatoes (veg) etc from the field/garden and wash thm in the kitchen if cooking for others? why is that.
i cant cooking my own beef/lamb fro these people? why not.
I know how to be hygenic around food without all that colour coded cutting boards and other crap.
These requlations are made for the idiots that enforce them. They are dumbing people down to an extent that is incredible.
it is a money making scheme for the departments, and we the people are accepting everthing feed to use. can you see the french or italians accepting this?
the food is so expensive in ireland because of all the middle men and unwarented regulation. buy direct from the source and it will be cheaper. go directly to the farmer.
but sure we all know that if the spud is not bought from a plastic bag and its washed we would all die

all the best

Mr Pint

ps think ill start a seperate thread about food.

haybob

I fear we have lost our warm Irish welcome too, personally I prefer a non national in a restaurant as they don't think they are too good for it like our own.

I met lost yanks on the road this summer (you have to be fairly lost to meet me on the road) but after giving directions and chatting to they I asked them how they were getting on and their two complaints were price and LACK of people having a chat with em

Muckit wrote: »

Birdnuts

I fear that we've ruined the great unque colourful little towns and villages and their character that we once had. They were quaint, and tourists loved them.

Now, as you say, their 'littered' by scaggly unfinished and unnecessary 'modern' housing estates and hotels.

Red sheds who've hit the nail on the head there are regards advertising.

We need to get back to basics in this country.... less is more, materialism is short lived (as this recession has shown).

Our warm and likeable Irish personality is something we can choose not to let the recession take from us

haybob

It's a noble idea it really is, for me it's the x files ''I want to believe''

Can people afford to buy what I would call proper food at the moment, can an individual compete with aldi, lidle, dunnes or teso with their loss leaders, can a small family owned B&B compete on price and facilities with a zombie hotel? No but they can hammer it on customer service.

I think if you had the capital fine but no way would I go borrowing at the moment for such a venture

Red Sheds wrote: »

Some really good points made here, Mr. Pint your points about the food preparation issues and the regulations, I agree with you, we have over the top regulation in this country in too many things, mostly in areas that affect the small business and burden them with costs. We would'nt be in all this Sh1t if the regulation was implemented where it mattered most, the banks and property tax breaks which we are all now paying for as well. Most of the mainland European countries would stand for this, they retain their customs and traditions. Walk into a bar in Navarra or Basque country of Spain and see the cured legs of ham, hanging over the counter, dripping down grease and every one smoking, it tastes delicious and I never got sick from it, get wine straight from a barrell in Italy and so on.

Food prices abroad in restaurants are very reasonable for very good quality and mostly local fare as Muckit stated. You will see right across Italy, Spain, France etc, small farmer owned wine, olive oil, fish, and food cooperatives growing for local and tourism markets and it helps the local farmers make a decent living. Ireland the home of the co-ops and we dont really have many of these left, makes you think it might be time to start looking at going back that way a little, i.e. going full circle.

Marketing in tourism is about 2 things right now using the internet effectively, forget print advertising and brochures, they are dead and outstanding customer service to get repeat business and referrals.

johngalway

haybob wrote: »

The French negotiated this with the EU see pate foie gras, champagne etc as did the Italians with their sausages and we can't even make a black pudding for sale sure it's annoying but remember the SFP

There is a way. But it needs to be fought for. I think Some other EU country did it for a type of cheese? Sorry, confused on the details, but had a long discussion with a very smart lady about that very topic this Spring. It's like making BP a speciality food, that has to be made a certain way, yadda yadda.

haybob

Protected designation of origin covers a lot of the French farmhouse cheese and wow are they tasty stilton is another good example.



I think we should do something like this with Irish beef

johngalway wrote: »

There is a way. But it needs to be fought for. I think Some other EU country did it for a type of cheese? Sorry, confused on the details, but had a long discussion with a very smart lady about that very topic this Spring. It's like making BP a speciality food, that has to be made a certain way, yadda yadda.

Red Sheds

haybob wrote: »

Protected designation of origin covers a lot of the French farmhouse cheese and wow are they tasty stilton is another good example.

Protected Designation of Origin (PDO) and Protected Geographical Indication (PGI) are the two main EU protections,

see: http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/quality/