Saw Consultant privately now not allowed go public?

ppink

recently I saw a consultant privately and now apparently I am not allowed to see them publically. I am on JS and it was all I could afford to see them privately .....it was 3 month quicker appointment!
Is there anything I can do about this....surely this is not right?:(

Eoineo

Are you sure about that?
I saw a consultant privately last year but was referred to a public consultant at the same time. My appointment still stands and as I've ceased my private treatment (also due to lack of funds) I'll be attending.

Is it that you want to see the same consultant publically?

KiLLeR CoUCh

I wouldn't say that's right at all. I started seeing a private consultant. One year later my health insurance was gone and I had to transfer to public. It wasn't a big deal, just rang up his secetary, told her the story and all my details were transferred to a public hospital.

_Whimsical_

ppink wrote: »

recently I saw a consultant privately and now apparently I am not allowed to see them publically. I am on JS and it was all I could afford to see them privately .....it was 3 month quicker appointment!
Is there anything I can do about this....surely this is not right?:(

Not all doctors are in the public system. Perhaps yours is not ?

If thats the case you'll probably be transferred to a public clinic where you'll see a different doctor.

If your doctor is working in the public system then you might be transferred to his public clinic where you'll be seen by another doctor who is overseen by your doctor. You might never see the main consultant again at any point but your care would still be equally as good.Unfortunately the wheels will move considerably slower in that system however.

ppink

yes the consultant does work in public and private and I got appointments for both but was told after my initial consult that i had to stay private now and could not go with my public appointment. In fact they cancelled my public appointment immediately.
I am to go back for review in 3months time which just happened to be when my public appointment was scheduled for anyway, so I asked could I not just keep that appointment and was told no!

_Whimsical_

That seems extremely unfair. Maybe you could ring the hospital and ask to speak to someone who arranges the appointments for your doctors public clinic there. If you explain the situation there they might be able to help or tell you what you should do next.

kangaroo

I have heard of cases in the past where people "queue jumped" e.g. they saw the consultant privately and then were part of the system so got another appointment (while otherwise might have had to wait a long time to be part of the system). I think in some cases, the patient deliberately did this and then in some cases, the consultant was somewhat encouraging this or at least not discouraging this practice. So there has been a problem.

But at the same time, if one pays out of one's own pocket privately, I don't think it is fair if one then loses out. Hopefully you can regain your place and position on the queue.

ppink

I called the HSE and they confirmed that if you go private initially you cannot change to public. I did not even think this when I took the appointment but there you go!
Thinking about it there is so much more too it.....how come I can get an appointment for next week privately but publically it is 3 months min! they system in this country is a disgrace and god help all of those who have not got insurance or the money to help fix themselves. in itself it must cost the country a fortune every year for all those who are off work waiting to get their health sorted through no fault of their own.
rant over:D

ChewChew

OP. . . you have no insurance? Fair enough. So you paid and need to have further investigations but cannot afford them? Fair enough. Do you actually think it is fair that you pay privately to see the consultant, jump the OPD waiting queue by months (and in some public OPD waiting lists-years) and you deserve to jump public patients and get straight into the system because you pay?

It does not work that way, and yes, it is true. you cannot go from private to public. I am amazed that some people actually believe that this is ok when there are thousands of people sitting on waiting lists on months/years because they cannot afford to go privately!!!! :rolleyes:

Eoineo

Oh right that's not the situation I'm in.

I'm still waiting on my first appointment for a public consultation. I don't expect any special treatment & understand that I have to go to the bottom of the queue by transferring to public.

If the OP is expecting to transfer directly by a shortcut onto the public system then that is why they are having a difficulty.

ChewChew

consultants are chancers and money mad but there are national procedures and policies in place with regards to public/private and waiting list hoppers

Giggles1982

ppink wrote: »

I called the HSE and they confirmed that if you go private initially you cannot change to public. I did not even think this when I took the appointment but there you go!
Thinking about it there is so much more too it.....how come I can get an appointment for next week privately but publically it is 3 months min! they system in this country is a disgrace and god help all of those who have not got insurance or the money to help fix themselves. in itself it must cost the country a fortune every year for all those who are off work waiting to get their health sorted through no fault of their own.
rant over:D

Tell them you cant afford to continue privately ! Plenty of people are cancelling their insurance because they are losing jobs etc. Just because you chose to pay to go privately initially ( i assume you were too worried / anxious etc to wait the 3 months ) doesnt mean you should be excluded from the public system entirely. You'll have to go back down the bottom of the list now as they cancelled your appointment.

A friend of mine had attended the same consultant both privately & public at same time so I dont see what the problem is , it happens everyday . ( I work in healthcare I see it ) .

ChewChew

Giggles1982 wrote: »

( I work in healthcare I see it ) .

as do I. fortunately, it doesn't happen every day. Alot of patients who are private and come into the system are seriously ill people who need additional care that they private hospital they attend do not have. acceptable. some private patients go on the public waiting list, when they have their consultation they say they have insurance and are placed on the waiting list for whatever investigation they need, acceptable.

_Whimsical_

ChewChew wrote: »

OP. . . you have no insurance? Fair enough. So you paid and need to have further investigations but cannot afford them? Fair enough. Do you actually think it is fair that you pay privately to see the consultant, jump the OPD waiting queue by months (and in some public OPD waiting lists-years) and you deserve to jump public patients and get straight into the system because you pay?

It does not work that way, and yes, it is true. you cannot go from private to public. I am amazed that some people actually believe that this is ok when there are thousands of people sitting on waiting lists on months/years because they cannot afford to go privately!!!! :rolleyes:

I don't think anyone is advocating jumping the queue but it does seem unnecessarily unfair to now tell her that she cannot go public at all and must pay for all her future care if she cannot afford it.It would seem only fair that she be given her place in the public system queue back.

ChewChew

chilly wrote: »

I don't think anyone is advocating jumping the queue but it does seem unnecessarily unfair to now tell her that she cannot go public at all and must pay for all her future care if she cannot afford it.It would seem only fair that she be given her place in the public system queue back.

well any patient who has been seen privately, deemed to not have any sinister symptoms (not always accurate or definite) should then be put onto a public OPD waiting list and start the waiting procedure like everyone else. people who are on for example, a surgical waiting list, are patients who have had to wait for an OPD appt.

kangaroo

ChewChew wrote: »

well any patient who has been seen privately, deemed to not have any sinister symptoms (not always accurate or definite) should then be put onto a public OPD waiting list and start the waiting procedure like everyone else.

I think this person wants to be treated like everyone else on the public system and keep the place in the queue they had.

You don't have to be that wealthy to come up with the price of one private consultant's appointment - I don't see why a person should be disadvantaged because they spent money on their health while somebody else could have the same disposable income or savings (or whatever) and choose to spend the money on something else (which might be more frivolous - like (extra) clothes or nights out or whatever). [Note: I'm not saying everyone could come up with the money].

I am interested to know whether there have been official changes in this regard nationally or is this a local decision or what?

(ETA: If they just do it in some cases where they think sending somebody to the bottom of the queue is ok, that might be ok).

ppink

Thanks Giggles and Kangaroo

It is the end of the public list I was looking to go back to but apparently it is not allowed countrywide, according to HSE.

graflynn

ppink wrote: »

Thanks Giggles and Kangaroo

It is the end of the public list I was looking to go back to but apparently it is not allowed countrywide, according to HSE.

I've been hopping back and forth from public to private for years - and not to jump queues or cheat the system but to get the best possible care that is available to me.

Please go back to the GP who referred you in the first place for advise. Depending on where you live there might be another public option. I do know that if you (and I know that it was the consultant who did this and not you) cancel a public appointment without rearranging it's extremely hard to get another one. This is why I suggest finding another public option.

Then you can keep your private appointments until the public appt. comes through and your care doesn't suffer in the meantime.

Dizzyblonde

It just doesn't make sense that a patient who can no longer afford private appointments with a consultant is then precluded from ever seeing the same consultant through the public system. That's complete madness.

There are certainly times when people can hop between the two (not in the interest of skipping queues!). I've had problems with breast lumps in the past, and my GP has referred me to the breast clinic in Beaumont Hospital. Getting a private appointment with the consultant who runs the clinic takes a lot longer so he tells people to see him in the clinic. If surgery is required the patient can opt to go private for that.

It's my understanding that, as bad as our health system is, it would be a lot worse off if it wasn't for people with private health insurance.

ChewChew

the public/private debate is a national policy implemented some time ago by the minister for health, Mary Harney.

Please have to start adhering to this policy.

Public waiting times are long enough as it is without queue hoppers (not in relation to the op, I am aware).

Many patients see their gp and are then referred to both public and private hospitals, and end up getting 2 appointments but dont inform the other hospital so a slot is lost. its a disaster and many patients dont really give a rats bottom.


The best thing the OP can do now is going back to the GP and get the GP to forward a letter to the OPD dept of the public hospital.

public hopsitals do depend on private patients for the generation of income but there are guidelines and procedures that patients really need to take into consideration and remember that just because they can afford health insurance does not mean they can have a single room or jump the top of the list!! simple as!

lucernarian

ChewChew wrote: »

the public/private debate is a national policy implemented some time ago by the minister for health, Mary Harney.

Please have to start adhering to this policy.

Public waiting times are long enough as it is without queue hoppers (not in relation to the op, I am aware).

Many patients see their gp and are then referred to both public and private hospitals, and end up getting 2 appointments but dont inform the other hospital so a slot is lost. its a disaster and many patients dont really give a rats bottom.


The best thing the OP can do now is going back to the GP and get the GP to forward a letter to the OPD dept of the public hospital.

public hopsitals do depend on private patients for the generation of income but there are guidelines and procedures that patients really need to take into consideration and remember that just because they can afford health insurance does not mean they can have a single room or jump the top of the list!! simple as!

From what I read here, the patient can't even join the back of the queue. They're never allowed see the consultant again! So the issue of jumping the queue is not relevant to the specific problem the OP faces. Why should someone not be treated as a public patient from scratch if they've seen the consultant privately before?

ChewChew

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

From what I read here, the patient can't even join the back of the queue. They're never allowed see the consultant again!

Why should someone not be treated as a public patient from scratch if they've seen the consultant privately before?

TBH, this is not true. ANYONE can go to a public hospital. The OP just needs to return to his/her GP and get a referral sent to the hospitals OPD dept. they cannot be refused. simple as.

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

So the issue of jumping the queue is not relevant to the specific problem the OP faces.

I already clarified that this particular point was not relevant to the OP.

LegacyUser

Anybody can use the public system by going to their GP and getting the referral letter to OPD. What you cannot do is use is mix the private and public system at the same time with the same consultant. If you then choose to go public, it is not a issue of queue jumping you are going as a public patient and if you need diagnostics or inpatient treatment you are on the same waiting list as all other public patients.

To the OP I would go to your GP and get a referral letter. If the consultant refuses to accept you as a public patient I would then go to another hospital. Consultants seem to have had no problems intermixing their private and public practice. I've seen instances where to save them money they've used public resources to organise private activities ie. secretaries. And if anybody reads the Brennan report it highlights the way our public hospitals are continuously being starved of important resources including finances through the behaviour of some consultants who seem to think that its ok not to fill in forms for billing to insurance companies etc and then there's the big issue of failing to abide by their contracts in relation to time allocation where they are still do too little work in public hospitals and far too much work in private practice.

So the message is, clean up your own shop before telling patients which services they can and cannot use!

lucernarian

ChewChew wrote: »

I already clarified that this particular point was not relevant to the OP.

You did reference how people shouldn't use the private system to jump up the public queue several times before your latest post. It was only then that you added the line saying it was not relevant to the OP. It almost appeared like you felt posters were advocating queue-hopping.

Also, the OP mentioned how he/she was told by the HSE that joining the public queue for a consultant was no longer an option. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding, but what is someone supposed to do when they're told such information? You would assume the HSE would be right and that going to a GP would be no good. One would assume that a GP would give the same information as the HSE if they were asked the same question. So it's obviously not "as simple as" for this patient. I'm sure the OP is not imagining the current problem.

squeky

i went to see my consultant privately once and we made a plan for my treatment, he then told me he would see me puplically in his opc as it would be faster! 3 weeks later i saw him in his out patients clinic again and he scheduled me for tests/trials etc, then i kept seeing him regulary and then he said he was operating on me and i was to admit myself to a&e night before the operation, unfortunately there was no theatre available to him for 3 days as it very hard for him to get a slot in theatre so i had to stay in hospital and wait, on the 3rd day he came and said i would be having my operation in the private hospital beside the public hospital and thats what happened and after the operation i was wheeled back into the public hospital to re-cupperate for 5 days.

Im now seeing him ever 3 months in out patients in public hospital.

sparkling sea

People are free to spend their money how they choose this is a democracy, if they choose to spend it to see a private consultant as oppossed to going for a drink, getting steak instead of mince meat, buying soft toilet paper instead of rough stuff or getting a video and a bottle of coke its their right to do so

Everyone is given the right to use the public health service and can be referred back into the public health systen at anytime, although cannot jump back and forth.

If you choose to sacrifice something so that you can pay for a private consultation, well done you, your putting your health before other things and in the long term you are more likely to be less of a drain on the system. Don't let anyone make you feel bad about this.

I don't believe there are very many, if any people in this country who could not afford to save for an initial private consultation if they are desperate to know what the problem is and they need peace of mind.

sparkling sea

ChewChew wrote: »

public hopsitals do depend on private patients for the generation of income but there are guidelines and procedures that patients really need to take into consideration and remember that just because they can afford health insurance does not mean they can have a single room or jump the top of the list!! simple as!

No the reason they should get these services is because they are paying for them - they are consumers paying for a service.

Both my sister and brother earn more money than me, my sister earns considerably more than I do, they do not have health insurance, however I have and I expect to get the service that I pay, I don't expect they to get the same service because they choose not to pay for it. And by the way I'm on minimum wage - and don't have a wealthy partner and I don't live with my parents.

bnt

I waited 10 months to see a specialist in one field, who referred me to a specialist in another field. I elected to see that specialist privately, since I suspected that it would involve another long wait. He had no qualms about putting me back in the public system for long-term support, though there was a mix-up (or I suspect he just forgot).

I almost forgot about my condition for a year (yes, I know I'm lucky it's that sort of condition), then called the hospital the specialist told me I would be seen. It took a bit of explaining, but since the same specialist worked for them, they were able to confirm with him that I was a real person, and he had promised to have me seen occasionally. There was never any issue with "queue jumping", though - it's not a condition that requires urgent attention.

ChewChew

sparkling sea wrote: »

No the reason they should get these services is because they are paying for them - they are consumers paying for a service.

Both my sister and brother earn more money than me, my sister earns considerably more than I do, they do not have health insurance, however I have and I expect to get the service that I pay, I don't expect they to get the same service because they choose not to pay for it. And by the way I'm on minimum wage - and don't have a wealthy partner and I don't live with my parents.

So go to a private hospital! :rolleyes:

I too am on a minimum wage, don't have a wealthy partner and I don't live with my parents.

But I use the public sector like everyone else should. I choose not to have private health insurance and I have my own reasons for that.

But anyone who uses the private/public system to queue jump is not allowed. thats the point I am making.

sparkling sea

ChewChew wrote: »

So go to a private hospital! :rolleyes:

I too am on a minimum wage, don't have a wealthy partner and I don't live with my parents.

But I use the public sector like everyone else should. I choose not to have private health insurance and I have my own reasons for that.

But anyone who uses the private/public system to queue jump is not allowed. thats the point I am making.

You make a choice not to pay and I would not impose payment on you but I want preferential treatment because I choose to pay. Everyone should use the public sector - yes thats a well thought out arguement given the way the Department of Health is and historically has been run in Ireland. Do you want everyone to have even worse treatment then they have now. People who pay for private health insurance allow for the Rawlian principle that treatment is distributed equally unless an unequal distribution of any or all of these services is to the advantage of the least favored. In the Irish case a better service is offered to all - I know its still not very good

As regard to using a private hospital you either live in Dublin or Cork -their may be private hospitals in other areas but their range of services is limited.

In my case there would (a) a private hospital in my area (b) it would have to have consultants that deal specfically with my illness and (c) the consultants would need too be as good if not better then the one I could see in the private/public system, that realistically exists in our system and the public system that I also contribute too.

Its all very well to argue that we should all only use the public health service not very realistic though!:rolleyes:
2 million people in Ireland pay private health insurance the majority aren't rich their just looking after their health.

hamlet1

while i don't agree with queue jumping,i have no problem with two tier health system.i pay plenty for private insurance and i help fund the public system through paying taxes etc.as they say you get what you pay for.it bugs me though that when i go to my gp,having made an appointment and paying through the nose to be seen,that i am never seen at my appointed time and have to wait like all the non-payers who get EVERYTHING free.:mad: