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Epsom Derby

  • 18-05-2009 3:07pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,377
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    The Irish have a stranglehold on it this year. It is 1-6 for an Irish winner and its easy to see why - all the top Irish trainers have horses at the front of the betting - O'Brien, Oxx and Bolger. It should be a cracker and very likely a clean sweep for the Irish.

    I backed Rip Van Winkle @ 16-1 last year and if he runs I am very happy with that. He ran a credible race in the 2000 Guineas when staying on for fourth.

    Oxx is a genius and Sea the Stars has to be respected. Any thoughts?


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,013 kincsem
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    Derby

    FAME AND GLORY by MONTJEU (dam by SHIRLEY HEIGHTS)
    Montjeu has sired two Derby winners and Shirley Heights one winner. Fame and Glory's dam Gryada has a pedigree similar to Derby winner Slip Anchor. Gryada's dam Grimpola has a typical German pedigree with plenty of top middle distance class.

    His wins in the Ballysax and Derrinstown were helped by a very strong pace set by Liszt, who finished last on each occasion. It is not as easy to set and follow a pace at Epsom imo. He is also a big bodied horse and may not be nimble enough for the course. His average furlong times are getting quicker: 14.59; 13.99; 12.74; 12.36 probably because he has gone from running on heavy and soft to good ground. Other races on the Derrinstown meeting card had similar times, so although visually impressive I think he didn't beat much.

    BLACK BEAR ISLAND by SADLER'S WELLS (dam by DARSHAAN)
    He is a full sibling of Derby winner High Chaparral, who won on soft in 2002. He looks small and will probably suit the track. Obviously he is a contender on soft ground, or in a strongly run race.

    GAN AMHRAS by GALILEO (dam by DARSHAAN)
    Galileo won the race and sired a winner. Strangely Darshaan, although considered an important ingredient in middle-distance pedigrees, has not sired an Oaks or Derby winner, and has only featured as the sire of High Chaparral's dam Kasora. Darshaan did sire the disqualified Oaks winner Aliysa.
    You have to go back a bit in Gan Amhras's damside pedigree (four dams back) to find good form: Icy Dial won 11, with 16 seconds and thirds from 38 starts.
    Gan Amhras has run two quick times, but I worry that he might not stay. He can handle firm ground.

    CROWDED HOUSE by RAINBOW QUEST (dam by WOODMAN)
    I'm a bit worried here. The dam Wiener Wald by Woodman only won $200 on the track although her siblings had a reasonable record. Her dam Chapel Of Dreams won 7 from 24, and her dam, Terlingua won 7 from 17. The dosage index says he should stay, but I think there is too much speed in his pedigree. Perhaps he had excuses in the Dante, but I'll pick another.

    RIP VAN WINKLE by GALILEO (dam by STRAVINSKY)
    I backed him in the 2000 Guineas. In the Dewhurst and the Guineas he had trouble getting past/around horses. He has run fast times in defeat. The sires on his dam line are Stravinsky (July Cup; Nunthorpe); Don't Forget Me (2000 Guineas; Irish 2000 Guineas; St James Palace); Shareef Dancer (Irish Derby); Be Friendly (King's Stand; Haydock Sprint Cup; Prix de l'Abbaye). Too much speed there, and he hasn't won beyond 7f.

    SEA THE STARS by CAPE CROSS (dam by MISWAKI)
    The reputation of the stallion Cape Cross rests on Oaks winner Ouija Board (Cape Cross out of Selection Board by Welsh Pageant). Although Selection Board did not win in two races her full brother was Teleprompter, who won 11 races incl. the Arlington Million ($1,000,000). I believe Selection Board had a fine pedigree, and was more important than Cape Cross in the pedigree of Ouija Board.

    Urban Sea, dam of Sea The Stars, was rated 117 at 3; 126 at 4. She won the Arc in deep going. She was 4th in the Coronation Cup at Epsom. She won 8 from 22 (?). She owes her breeding reputation largely to Derby winner Galileo by Sadler's Wells. I think Sadler's Wells was the more important part of the Galileo pedigree.

    Sea The Stars was impressive in the 2000 Guineas. He is a fine, intelligent looking horse. I think he will not stay the Epsom Derby distance well.

    The other entries do not have the form to contend (I hope).


    My Guess

    1. Gan Amhras
    2. Black Bear Island
    3. Fame and Glory
    4. Sea The Stars
    5. Crowded House


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,494 finbarrk
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    Gan Amhras for me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,191 NewApproach
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    Derby is a very interesting race this year, and by far the one in which I have studied most of all the antepost races (yet to have a bet on it though)

    For me the key trial is the 2000 Guineas. 3 of the first four from this race are due to line up at Epsom.
    After watching that race any number of times, I have come to the conclusion that it was a thourough test of stamina as mile races go. They went very fast early on, and to my eyes seemed to say on at the finish rather than quicken. This to me would indicatee that the front 4 will all get further, and pedigree's back this up.

    For me the most interesting was the run of Sea The Stars. He raced on the heels of the leaders in the early stages, but was tanking along. He was racing totally within himself, and going a stride faster would seemed to have held no fears for him at that stage of the race. The most impressive thing was that he travelled so well, and stayed on right the way to the line. He is a classy horse, but I have a doubt whether he will be suited to a race like the Derby. He is Cape Cross x Urban Sea, and most people know at least the basics of his pedigree. Urban Sea bred Galileo who won the Derby (by Sadlers Wells), and she won the Arc herself. However, her other offspring, including All Too Beautiful and Black Sam Bellamy all semmed to find 12f a stretch in my opinion, and seemed to be best at a strongly run 10f. These two were both by Sadlers Wells, who is undoubtedly a greater stamina influence than Cape Cross. Cape Cross is best known as a mile/10f influence, rather than further. While Cape Cross did breed Ouija Board, her distaff side was all about stamina, whereas I am taking the view that Sea The Stars bottom half is a top 10f pedigree. If I am wrong so be it! (Saying that the Dosage Indexes would seem to back up my point). Going back to the way the Guineas was run, I would be shocked if Sea the Stars would see out 12f. He seemed to show so much speed in the early stages of that race that if he can stay the 12f of the Derby he would be up there with the best of them. Also worth bearing in mind is that he is a large, well made horse, and the cambers at Epsom may not suit considering he is only having the fifth start of his life.


    Next to consider is Rip Van Winkle. He is by Galileo, but of ouf a Stravinsky mare, which to me would raise a huge doubt over his ability to see out 12f. His form to me also leaves a lot to be desired. He won a maiden, which at the time I thought was very strong, but turned out to be no better than average. Following that he won a four runner renewal of the Tyros stakes, where his only realistic opposition was a filly who showed nothing in her only subsequent race that season. He then went to post as the 6/4 fav in the Dewhurst, where he showed absolutely no turn of foot, and while not overly punished when his chance had gone, he was still quite disappointing in a race where the form had a huge question mark over it afterwards, where 7 horses were covered by only 2 lengths. This would make one believe that the best horses of the crop swerved the race. Roll on the guineas, where he was held up off a fast early pace, and stayed on to be fourth at the finish. He did it the easy way in that race, unlike Sea the Stars and Gan Amhras who finished ahead of him.
    Coming back to his pedigree, while he looked like a mile and possibly further is well within his compass, I would be shocked if he gets a yard further than 10f, let alone 12. He has been hyped to all proportion, and I am sure that as the season goes on I will be proved right on this point. He will be a massive lay for me in the Derby (It wouldnt at all surprise me if he doesn't line up in fact).

    The last horse to take out of the Guineas with a view to the derby is Gan Amhras, and he is the one who interests me most. Like Sea The Stars, he raced up with the pace, but he did this as it was the only way to ride him in the race, given his pedigree, by Galileo out of a Darshann mare. He is crying out for a step up in trip, and the mile and a half of the Derby should suit him down to the ground. He is a well balanced horse, so the unique track at Epsom should suit, and I reckon he will have a huge chance. He excelled himself as a 2yo, notably where he ran second in the Goffs Million over 7f, where he stayed on right the way to the line. Notably, he was taking a step back in trip that day, having made his debut and won his maiden (beating Masterofthehorse) over a mile. He is very highly thought of and is a huge price at 9/1.


    Of the contenders who didnt run in the Guineas, obviously the current favourite, Fame and Glory, must be high on anyone's shortlist. He has taken the so called 'Derby route' of APOB's Derby winners, by winning the Ballysax and the Derrinstown derby trial. He was very impressive in each race, going away at the end, and the step up in trip will be no problem to him (Montjeu x (Shirley Heights)). However, there has to be a question mark over what he beat. Mourayan appeared to me to be Oxx's main Derby contender, he always came across as having the same worries over STS's stamina that I outlined abouve, and I think its certainly something to note with regards both of their chances in the Derby. The 5/2 on offer for Fame and Glory is certainly on the skinny side, and its worth seeing what other runners the stable has in the race, for one reason to see jockey bookings, but also so you can have a better idea of what tactics will be employed by the stable. This will be an important factor to consider, and you can be sure the race will tried to be run in order to give Fame and Glory the maximum chance of victory, as an unbeaten derby winner will be a very valuable proposition to his connections.

    Others to consider are Black Bear Island, winner of the Dante and a full brother to Derby winner High Chaparral, but a stable companion of the favourite, and a dark horse could be Harbinger, trained by Michael Stoute, who was second in the Wood Ditton and followed that up with a comfortable success in a Chester maiden, beating Changingofthegaurd.



    So just incase you decided to skip reading all that (damn you :p), I fancy Gan Amhras, and will be laying Rip Van Winkle win and place and Also a smaller lay of Sea the Stars...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,377 Warper
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    Good post New Approach - you've certainly convinced me. I will be backing Gan Amhras e/w @ 9-1.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,641 gscully
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    Just getting away from the main contenders for a minute...

    A few years ago, Aiden O'Brien had Dylan Thomas as his pace-setter in the race and he was good enough to keep going and finish 3rd. From what I've heard, the stable-lads had him e/w at 66/1 a long time before. His pace-setters can certainly be good enough to plug on into the places. With that in mind, I wonder if Sirgarfieldsobers has a chance of doing that. He's a brother to Authorized, so the pedigree is there. Currently trading at odds of 33/1 to 50/1. Might be an interesting shout. He finished third to an Oxx horse in Gowran recently, but that was in heavy ground and he was the stable outsider. He beat the stable's first choice.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,943 abouttobebanned
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    I'm VERY keen on Fame and Glory. But expect to see Rip Van Winkle improve over a longer trip.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,191 NewApproach
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    Here is a Nick Mordin article on the Dante runners in the Derby. I didn't go into this race in as much detail as I did the guineas so this might be interesting for ye...



    I rated the win scored by BLACK BEAR ISLAND (42) in the Dante as the best performance by a three year old in a Derby Trial in fifteen years. The only time I've ever given a Derby Trial winner a rating as big was in the 1994 Dante won by Erhaab who of course went on to win the Derby.

    Black Bear Island's amazing performance was no huge shock as the Dante looked to be the most strongly contested Derby Trial I can ever recall.

    Normally there are just a couple of horses in a Derby Trial that look to have the potential to develop into Group 1 performers. In this year's Dante every single one of the ten runners appeared candidates for top honours.

    FREEMANTLE (42) set out to make it a real test of stamina on ground that was on the slow side of good, edging towards yielding judged by race times and the divots the runners were throwing up. He kept going really strongly in the lead and made a bold move to break his rivals when Johnny Murtagh booted him a couple of lengths clear with more than a quarter of a mile to go.

    The clock shows that even though Freemantle was going fast enough to clock a very good final time Murtagh still managed to save just a little bit for when he tried to break clear.

    Unfortunately Freemantle's pedigree and physique suggest that ten furlongs is likely to be his limit, and the Dante is 88 yards longer than that. So inside the last furlong his stride began to shorten and his lead shrank with every stride. He ended up just getting caught and beaten a head. If the overnight rain hadn't arrived he might well have held on.

    Freemantle is a typical Coolmore colt in that he's a big, mature, good-bodied, classy sort. In fact he's exceptionally well made and an outstanding physical specimen. He made very good late headway on his debut at the Curragh to come from fifteenth place around halfway to finish third. He was not given that hard a time in the closing stages but still picked up smoothly and strongly. If the race had been a mile rather than seven furlongs he would undoubtedly have won. It was a red hot maiden. Subsequent Guineas winner Sea The Stars was fourth and Black Bear Island was second. But Freemantle looked much the best horse in the race.

    Next time out Freemantle had a pacemaker to ensure a strong gallop from him in another seven furlong maiden at the Curragh. He started at 11-10. But it soon became apparent he wasn't liking the desperately heavy ground. He was rolling around and simply not getting through the surface properly and got very leg weary. He still gained ground towards the finish but you could see his action had gone and he was very tired.

    On his next start the going was officially heavy once more when Freemantle ran in another maiden, this time at Tipperary over seven and a half furlongs. But race times show that the surface was actually riding almost seven seconds a mile faster than it was at the Curragh. It was really more like soft going and Freemantle got through it much better, quickening clear to win by ten lengths from a runner up that's gone on to win two of his three subsequent outings.

    Freemantle's dam produced her best run over ten furlongs and weakened to finish unplaced when tried over a mile and a half. Her previous foals have all produced their best form over ten furlongs or less as well, even those with stamina-laden sires. Couple this with Freemantle's racy looking physique and the pace he's shown himself capable of and the Derby distance does seem a bit of a stretch. Still, he is a proper Group 1 horse and looks sure to win at least one race at the top level this year. His obvious immediate target just has to be the Prix du Jockey Club where he'll be very hard to beat, especially if the ground is faster than it was at York, as seems likely.

    It has to be said that the weather has not been kind to Freemantle so far. He clearly wants a fast surface and has been unlucky never to get it.

    Before the race I had thought that Black Bear Island might well find the distance a bit on the short side. But thanks to the overnight rain and the strong pace he really started rolling halfway up the straight. He began moving up from second last spot with his jockey moving him right then left to find a run. When he found one he shook Black Bear Island up and his mount fairly barreled along as he bore down on the leaders, eating up the ground. His run proved irresistible and he powered past his stablemate on the line.

    One remarkable aspect of Black Bear Island's win here was how incredibly fast he came home over the last three furlongs. I clocked him and the winners of the other races several times for this distance because at first I found it hard to believe he could have finished so quickly. But it turned out that not only did he get closer to my standard time in terms of seconds per mile than the other winners around the turn, he finished faster too. They came home 0.9 of a second faster over the last three furlongs than in the mile Listed race for older horses. And Black Bear Island gained about a second on the leaders during this space, meaning he finished the race a good deal faster than he began it.

    Clearly Black Bear Island is crying out for the step up to a mile and a half. He looks very hard to beat at Epsom on this performance and deserves to be a warm favourite rather than the remarkably big 10-1 that you can get as I write this.

    Previously I'd thought that Black Bear Island's stablemate Rip Van Winkle was the one to beat at Epsom. Now I've jumped ship and am supporting the Dante winner. He's guaranteed to get the distance and is a serious Group 1 horse on my ratings.

    SANS FRONTIERES (41) ran a big race to finish third. He still wasn't totally organised as he staged a strong run down the outside but picked up nicely and is clearly a smart horse. I think it's a smart move skipping the Derby with him as he's so tall and gangly and clearly rather difficult to keep balanced. He'd surely have trouble negotiating the tight turns and gradients at Epsom.

    In a normal year I'd say Sans Frontieres was a good thing to take his intended target, the King Edward VII Stakes, on this run. But this is a very good year for three year old middle distance colts, so I'm going to wait to see what takes him on at Royal Ascot.

    It was good to see MONITOR CLOSELY (40) not putting his head to one side as he had in his two previous runs this season on much firmer ground. He clearly appreciated the overnight rain more than most and ran yet another good race. With fast ground likely to prevail during the Summer months I don't know quite what he can win in the near future. But in the Autumn when the ground gets softer I see him winning something decent. He's a classy, good looking horse.

    Fifth placed KITE WOOD (40) is another horse whose record shows a preference for a softer surface. But this may simply be because he's not yet had the chance to try a really long distance. He ran a big race here over a trip that's almost certainly going to prove much too short for him. He's a deep chested, powerful sort out of dam whose produced two out and out stayers from her three other foals - and those were by speedier stallions than Galileo, the sire of Kite Wood.

    Kite Wood entered the last furlong in second place but was simply swamped for speed by his rivals and ended up fifth (he would have been sixth in another stride or two).

    On the tighter course and likely faster ground at Epsom I doubt that Kite Wood will improve much on this run. But he certainly looks a smart prospect for the St Leger later on and even at this early stage looks to have the potential to develop into one of the better Cup horses next year.

    GLASS HARMONIUM (40) finished nicely and clearly improved for the step up in distance. He is rather a big, gross sort that's probably hard to get fit. So it's understandable that once more he was reported to be unfit when weakening into fifth in the Craven on his reappearance where he got beat over seven lengths. That wasn't a bad effort, and he improved on it significantly here.

    It may very well be that Glass Harmonium is going to improve even further over longer distances. After all he comes from a mile and a half family on the dam's side and he is a tall, rangy sort that looks built for longer. Stoute certainly seems to think so as he persuaded Glass Harmonium's owner, Princess Haya, to pay 8000 pounds to supplement him into the Derby. That's now looking like a smart move, and Glass Harmonium is certainly a tempting each-way bet for the big race at the available 50-1.

    NATIVE RULER (38) put up a very solid performance to finish a close up seventh. He is a very good looking horse that was noticeably taller than all his Dante rivals. He has a big, long stride too. He looked in a different class to his rivals for most of the race when winning a Pontefract maiden last time. He set a strong pace, while moving easily in that race and had all his rivals off the bit a long way out. However in the closing stages the runner up just wouldn't go away and drew well clear of the rest as he continued to worry away at Native Ruler. Native Ruler started to tire and run green but still had enough in the tank left to win by over three lengths. Here he improved and ran more like an old hand. But, as trainer Henry Cecil said after the race, he's still a big baby and needs a bit more time to produce his best, and most likely another couple of furlongs.

    I'm not sure that the excuse of a dirty scope after the race was needed to explain the performance of CROWDED HOUSE (38). He didn't put up a great run to win the Racing Post Trophy on my speed ratings and I reckon he basically ran up to form. He must have appreciated the rain taking the jar out of the ground too as he's such a top heavy sort. For this reason I can't see him taking to Epsom where horses hit their front legs hard on the long downhill run to the straight. Besides I just don't think he'd be good enough there.

    REDWOOD (36) was never traveling according to his jockey and ran well below the form he showed when taking the Feilden Stakes at Newmarket. The only idea I have to explain his run is that perhaps he needs to be rested between this runs since he's a relatively light-framed horse.

    I suspected that NEEHAM (26) might regress if he wasn't rested following his big win in the valuable sales race at Newmarket as he's a bit light-framed too. This seemed to happen here as he ran a clunker to finish far back in last place. I'm prepared to forgive this run and will be interested in Neeham if he's given a break of at least six weeks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,013 kincsem
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    I backed Sea The Stars for the Derby on 1st May at 13/1 and sold that after he won the 2000 Guineas at 4/1. I used the money to back Gan Amhras at 12.5/1 and today sold that at 9/1. Today I used the funds to back Fame And Glory at 3.3/1.

    The drops in prices as opportunities to roll up my money. When the odds on a horse become bad value (imo) I sell my bet.

    Fame And Glory is hard to assess as he has mostly run on soft or heavy and has beaten the same horses a few times. His Derrinstown Stud Derby Trial time was 0.1 seconds above the time High Chaparral ran on slightly faster ground in 2002.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 mr.jingle
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    Rip Van Winkle will win the Derby from what i've heard;) And with the money going on him in the last few days it won't surprise me one bit if he wins.

    If Mick Channon runs Montaff i'll be backing it too at probably a very big price:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,494 finbarrk
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    Where did this gamble come from? Did Johnny say he was going to ride Rip I wonder?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,641 gscully
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    finbarrk wrote: »
    Where did this gamble come from? Did Johnny say he was going to ride Rip I wonder?

    After winning on Mastercraftsman, he told RTE that he was undecided between Rip Van Winkle and Fame And Glory, but was leaning towards letting his heart rule his head. He said that he thinks Rip Van Winkle is an amazing horse.

    The whole heart and head thing is interesting though. Does he just love Rip, but think that Fame And Glory might be the more logical choice?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,494 finbarrk
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    John Oxx says he mightn't run the horse if the ground is anyway soft.

    http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=racing/09/05/27/manual_074221.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 174 Tubbertown1982
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    mr.jingle wrote: »
    Rip Van Winkle will win the Derby from what i've heard;) And with the money going on him in the last few days it won't surprise me one bit if he wins.

    If Mick Channon runs Montaff i'll be backing it too at probably a very big price:D

    got a tip for this for the Guineas, wouldnt listen to "Tips" from Ballydoyle.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,142 Whyno
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    Murtagh rides Rip van Winkle....Does this change anyones mind....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,191 NewApproach
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    Whyno wrote: »
    Murtagh rides Rip van Winkle....Does this change anyones mind....

    Great news. Shorter price, means more laying to be done :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 620 BobbyD10
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    Have gone for Black Bear Island at 10/1. Like backing a horse I know will get the distance and a nice price too. Great race and one to savour.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 561 minty16
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    Black Bear Island looks the clear value of the race, he will stay all day and is not lacking in pace.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 mr.jingle
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    Having 2nd thoughts on Rip Van Winkle now:( Fancy Gan Amhras now! Plenty of late money for him. Wonder what price it is for O'Brien to have none of the first 3???:eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 305 TwistsAndTurns
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    Still cant see past Fame and Glory even though Murtagh has gone off him. For an outside bet I'am going for Debussy :eek: . Backed Sariska today and watched Midday give it a great finish, Debussy already beat him (1m2f) so I think he could be the one to split the O'Brien horses at a big price.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,925 aidan24326
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    The weather forecast is bad, rain all day. I wonder if the ground goes good/good-to-soft what bearing will that have? Black Bear Island, as a Sadlers Wells and full brother to High Chapparal, might appreciate a bit of give, where some of the others won't.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,972 mike65
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    I'm going with Fame and Glory now the conditions have softened up a bit.

    My picks for the day

    Marching Time
    Red Avalanche
    Spacious
    Cake
    Fame and Glory
    Can't pick one so avoiding.
    Aye Aye Digby


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,925 aidan24326
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    mike65 wrote: »
    I'm going with Fame and Glory now the conditions have softened up a bit.


    It's officially good-to-soft/soft in places. Fame and Glory and Sea The Stars both have form with cut in the ground but Fame And Glory is obviously the more likely stayer so I think I'd be siding with him at this stage, with Black Bear Island a very live contender also. Gan Amhras ran on very well in the guineas and I think he's definite each-way material.

    All the money this morning is for Sea The Stars, he's gone 11/4 from 7/2. I find this strange as the softish ground only makes it even less likely that he'll stay. He's a class horse and I'm sure he'd get 1M2F but whether he'll get 1M4F in softish ground is doubtful and you couldn't back him at those odds. Rip Van Winkle has not won beyond 7F and it's a big ask for him to go and win a Derby, so I think Murtagh has got it wrong (though to be fair it was a tough choice).

    Prediction:

    1. Fame And Glory
    2. Black Bear Island
    3. Gan Amhras


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 584 aidankk
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    im going for rip van winkle as he now seems overpriced to me, he stands to improve a lot from seasonal deput in the 2000 ( as is the norm with AOB horses), looks as likeny to stay as the other top fancies and now seems like value at 6/1.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,014 dotsflan
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    masterofthehorse for me, should have won easily the last day but for brutal tactics from murtagh


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,838 Nulty
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    well mike bassed on those predictions i'd lay fame and glory 8-1


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,340 siobhan.murphy
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    black bear at 8's for me last night

    Aidan
    To train the winner 4/7
    To train the 1st and 2nd 5/2
    To train the 1st, 2nd and 3rd 6/1
    To train the 1st, 2nd , 3rd and 4th 20/1
    To train the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th 40/1


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 mr.jingle
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    What a performance by Sea The Stars won it really easily travelled best and delighted for Kinane/Oxx both deserved another big win. O'Brien 5 of the first 6 were his just ran into a goodun on the day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,925 aidan24326
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    mr.jingle wrote: »
    What a performance by Sea The Stars won it really easily travelled best and delighted for Kinane/Oxx both deserved another big win. O'Brien 5 of the first 6 were his just ran into a goodun on the day.


    Very impressive from Sea The Stars. He won it a bit cosily in the finish.


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