Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Loads of money in farming ?

  • 13-01-2009 12:20am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296
    ✭✭


    A few weeks ago I attended an IFA regional protest march in Carrick on Shannon.
    The march was well attended and was highlighting the on going Government cuts impacting on falling farm incomes
    While being from farming stock,a land owner and part time farmer I broadly support the efforts of the farming organisations to improve the lot of the small family farmers
    Tonight I attended a Springer heifer sale in Elphin Mart where heifers of varying quality made outrageous prices
    Two and a half year old heifers sold up to €3,000 nice money I am sure you will agree
    Good luck to the vendor and best of luck to the buyers for they sure will need it
    You will agree also I am sure a very satisfactory result in the current depression with so many people losing their jobs and struggling to make ends meet ,rear kids pay mortage, child minder etc
    When we came out from the sale we were drawn by the number of 08LM and 08RN top of the range John Deere tractors complete with pristine front loaders and Dooley 20' + cattle trailers, 08 and 09 RN,CN,LM 4 x 4 Jeeps and land rovers with 6 wheel Aerlite and Ifor Williams cattle trailers all lined up to load their purchases
    We walked about a half mile to our car and can confirm that there were 09LM brand new mercedes and top of the range Volvo S 80 among the many vehicles parked along the Carrick road as the car park was full of 4 x 4's
    Please tell me wher are the 'POOR' farmers that the IFA were on about in Carrick on Shannon
    They were certainly not representative of the attendees there in Elphin tonight
    Am I missing something please tell me where the moneys coming from


Welcome!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,222 adne
    ✭✭✭


    Some Farmers have been handed down money over generations, these are the Guys who can afford to pay 1200+ for a springer heifer. If these Guys were to take a step back they would realise they are not making money but living off money that their Fathers and Grandfathers earned.....

    The Poor farmers are the ones in the west of Ireland with a Parcel to 40-60 acres of poor quality land


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 144 Turbury
    ✭✭


    Alas - the 08 tractors and 08 Jeeps were not paid for from farming profits. I'll bet that the majoriry of people present at the sale had off farm incomes (mostly from construction employment, until recently). I know very few full time farmers with 08 equipment but I know quite a few part time farmers - and nearly all have new tractors, jeeps etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,296 leg wax
    ✭✭✭


    i was at the sale last night and certinly found it a eye opener as too what quality stock are making up that part of the country.i bought 1`heifer after travelling all the way up from waterford .my own reason for buying a heifer at the sale is QUALITY .now i need a little luck and please god she will produce a weanling worth $1000+ every year.it makes a lot more sence to me to carry 1 good cow rather than 2 bad ones, 2 weanlings worth 600 each.why are farmers carrying cows that produce wealings of so little value.it does not help that they are using wrong breeds of bull and cows ,theres only one ,no two markets to aim for, the export market eg belgian blue ,home market eg hereford/angus.the latter is what the consumer wants in the butchers shop and in the supermarket,for the producer to get the most out of this market he would have to finish his own stock but this is still too far behind the rewards or the export market.we have all seen these weanlings in marts and shows makeing big bucks it is very easy to achieve it just needs aplan of action.last year was my first year in suckling i got out of dairycows ,and purchased 40blonde heifers/cows. put heifers in calf to blondbull for easy calf with idea of keeping heifers for replacements,blonde bulls were sold in carnew mart they only averaged 680 euros.the cows had blue calfs,heifers and bulls averaged 1020euro at mountrath bb sale.i am just finished calfving nowall incalf to bb and wow some woppers on them.i sold 3 of the worst calfs +cows for1450euros off the farmers journel.i put a plan togeather that in five years will have all 1000euro weanlings and it does look possible.and if the export market stops iwill still have atop price animal.what would the 600euro weanling be worth if exports stoped ,my good oldfriend larry goodman would be full of cows that are producing the now 600euro wealings :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 massey woman
    ✭✭


    Leg wax
    You are agreeing with me therefore there is loads a dosh in farming
    What other business could you get a 2and a half year payback on your capital investment
    Cow costing €2,500 and weanlings at €1000+ each per year
    The best of luck to you if you have identified and perfected a strategy that will yield a financial bonanza for you and your family
    Why therefore are all the farming propagandists constantly pleading poverty:(
    I am not naieve enough though to believe that if you breed the best to the best you will get a champion animal.
    Not so , as many poorer quality Black/Friesian/Shorthorn cows will deliver annually a live quality animal and will have enough milk to put a sheen on its calf.
    The BB/CH/BA cow has very often little or no milk and this lack of milk has to be replaced with meals. Many of these cows put more on their own backs than their calves.
    I agree with you that the classy BB x LM calf will make a big price if he is good enough but who is buying them, exporters being often out bid by pricks buying for showing in the hope of getting their ugly mugs on the local paper !
    And dont forget the cost of feed
    How many more agree with us lots of dosh


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 reilig
    ✭✭✭


    A few weeks ago I attended an IFA regional protest march in Carrick on Shannon.
    The march was well attended and was highlighting the on going Government cuts impacting on falling farm incomes
    While being from farming stock,a land owner and part time farmer I broadly support the efforts of the farming organisations to improve the lot of the small family farmers
    Tonight I attended a Springer heifer sale in Elphin Mart where heifers of varying quality made outrageous prices
    Two and a half year old heifers sold up to €3,000 nice money I am sure you will agree
    Good luck to the vendor and best of luck to the buyers for they sure will need it
    You will agree also I am sure a very satisfactory result in the current depression with so many people losing their jobs and struggling to make ends meet ,rear kids pay mortage, child minder etc
    When we came out from the sale we were drawn by the number of 08LM and 08RN top of the range John Deere tractors complete with pristine front loaders and Dooley 20' + cattle trailers, 08 and 09 RN,CN,LM 4 x 4 Jeeps and land rovers with 6 wheel Aerlite and Ifor Williams cattle trailers all lined up to load their purchases
    We walked about a half mile to our car and can confirm that there were 09LM brand new mercedes and top of the range Volvo S 80 among the many vehicles parked along the Carrick road as the car park was full of 4 x 4's
    Please tell me wher are the 'POOR' farmers that the IFA were on about in Carrick on Shannon
    They were certainly not representative of the attendees there in Elphin tonight
    Am I missing something please tell me where the moneys coming from


    I would very much disagree with you and I am disappointed that someone who has advocated the plight of farmers so well in the past on this site would come out with such a statement. That was a special sale in elphin for springer's. People travelled from all over the country to buy the best of the best there. It was an exceptional sale for exceptional buyers. Many of these buyers were "hobby" farmers who made their money on something else and wanted to buy a heifer that was going to produce a prize winner and bring glory. Most of the buyers weren't worried if the animal made money or not, so long as they produced a prize winner.

    That protest in Carrick was for ordinary farmers who make their money off the land and who stand to lose a lot by government cuts. Go to the marts in Drumshambo, Dowra, or Mohill and look at the type of cattle being sold their by the ordinary farmer. The standard cattle being sold are matched by the standard of the transport that brought them there - with the exception of the odd dealer or the man who didn't make his money from farming.

    Thankfully Farming isn't in a recession, but the cuts made in the last budget threaten to put it into one. That's what the protest in carrick was about. And as you noticed, there are still many wealthy people in the country who can afford new cars and tractors. But if you go back to elphin next week when an ordinary sale is on, how many faces will you recognise from last week - very few. And most that you do recognise were only an onlooker last night. Fair play to Elphin, they can attract big spenders to their special sales. But don't be fooled as to the source of the finance.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 massey woman
    ✭✭


    Reilig
    To be very honest with you although it was advertised as a special sale there was very little special about it other than the prices.
    Sure there were a number of top quality cattle there many that did make massive money.
    A total of 100 heifers were advertised many of very average quality.
    In Mohill last October there were as good heifers sold at similar money off the grass without meal
    Also I would say I knew 70% of the attendees to see or to know and very few travelled that far going by the car and tractor regs.
    I dont have a problem with people making money best of luck to them
    My concern is that any non farmers there last night would feel theres plenty a dosh in farming ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 brianthebard
    ✭✭✭✭


    I agree with reilig, this is a very disappointing op. mw, you've subjected the farming industry to the same cursory glance that has caused so farmers to be vilified because of subsidies and the like, when those who work in the industry know that subsidies aren't making them rich.

    Lets start with the price you quoted; What percentage of the sales made that figure? Were they a particular breed? who bought them, Irish, foreign breeder, Irish on behalf of foreign breeder? To what extent is a sale like that heifer "subsidising" the other animals on that farm? I'll guess that you don't know the answers to these questions.

    How much money was spent on that heifer to keep and maintain her for two and a half years? A good bit right? What percentage of that sale was profit? How much have calf nuts and other feeds gone up in the past year or two? Fertiliser costs, medication/veterinary costs? Want to tell us what you saw when you looked at that particular farmers books?

    Secondly, the cars. Such a measure of the state of an industry! So there was an 09 reg there-what was that person's previous reg? Who were these people, were they farmers, factory owners, casual onlookers, businessmen turned new landowners looking to pick up a few choice animals? Did you count the 09 regs? What percentage of the car park were they? Were they all paid for in full? because anyone can 'own' a merc on lease. Again you don't know any of the situations.

    I realise you may be hurting in the present climate, you went to the protest and fair play for doing so, obviously you have a keen interest in keeping farming going. That's no excuse for the same lazy polling and conclusions about the sector that those outside farming with no knowledge of how things work or what the costs and actual earnings are fond of making.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 massey woman
    ✭✭


    Brian the Bard
    Just to put the record straight I asked the question ,,,see the ????
    Loads of money in farming ?
    Firstly as you will be aware from previous postings I am very envolved in farming and last night was not a" cursory look "for me
    In relation to breeds they were LM,CH,BB crosses between 2 and 5 years old sold by a local farmer to mostly local buyers
    When I say Local I knew 70%+ of them
    No animal as far as I am aware sold below €1550 at least while I was there maybe 2 hours
    In relation to feed costs I am very aware of the costs and the capital costs of plant and machinery, as I alluded to in recognising the quality of tractors,jeeps etc there on the night- not to speak of the housing costs although these modern sheds are seriously financed by the taxpayers- and the general cost of living as is stated in my post
    I am also aware that farmers like myself benefit greatly from the EU in single farm payments and many schemes like REPS, OrganicREPS,installation aid early retirement ,CFP schemes control of nitrates etc etc
    All that income goes into covering the costs of feed etc
    In relation to cars I identified 2 cars a Merc and a Volvo and can confirm that both are farmer owned
    I walked the half mile to my car and related what I saw I didnt go round the car park as you seem to suggest as a nosey parker with a chip on my shoulder looking at the vehicles individually as I said the best of luck to them
    As i Stated I was amazed by the opulence and so was the full time farmer I was with who knew more of the customers than I!
    As regards hurting I grew up on a small farm and worked as hard as any one else and fortunately through hard work of both my partner and my family today we have a number of very valuable assets including a number of farms none of which were purchased on the profits from farming
    Now get back to my point -as by now you will have realised I know what I am talking about I hope - Why are the IFA and ever agri correspondent talkin about the hardships all the time when the very opposite is the case as seen in Elphin by me and at least one other Boards member


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 brianthebard
    ✭✭✭✭


    This;
    Brian the Bard
    Just to put the record straight I asked the question ,,,see the ????
    Loads of money in farming ?

    Does not tally with this;
    -as by now you will have realised I know what I am talking about I hope - Why are the IFA and ever agri correspondent talkin about the hardships all the time when the very opposite is the case as seen in Elphin by me and at least one other Boards member

    Using a question mark is not enough to make a statement into a question. You identified two 09 cars yet feel that's enough to generalise and make the car park sound well to do. You walked past half a mile of cars and feel that two 09's make a rich crowd? Also no animal sold below 1550, but that's quite a bit off 3000-can we assume the average was quite a bit below 3000?
    So in answer to your last question above, the IFA are talking about hardships because the vast majority of farmers are facing hardships. You've created a thread that suggests there's lots of money floating around farming, based on two hours in Elphin, a few figures and cars. You've given no indication that this is the norm, no indication of who these rich people were, or what they do. Just for the lol I'll give you a hypothetical. If you went to a mart in mayo you could easily see my uncles 09 peugot there. Based on your posts we'd assume he's a loaded farmer and that farming is in great shape. The reality is he leases a dealership and has access to new cars, and drives them as part of his job. He farms part time. Thus we should realise that there isn't enough money in farming, or he would be doing it full time. But given the tone and content of your posts a very different image emerges, one that suggests the people at Elphin were well to do, successful, full time and farmers. None of which is guaranteed. When you can show me who the person was that paid 3000 for a heifer, what his incentive to do so was, and whether he was loaded, high or just thought it was a fair price, then your post may have more to say about the state of farming at the minute. But for now I'm going to side with the IFA.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,222 adne
    ✭✭✭


    Massey Woman u are generalising based on seeing a few new cars and witnessing big prices. A Special sale attracts the Big Shots !!!

    I drive a 09 Jeep, i do not own it, its a company vechile from my full time job that is currently in Jeopardy. I have a 10 cow suckler herd which I spend 2 Hours in morn and 2 hours in evening and weekends working at.

    If I was to have brought the best of my In Calf Heifers to this sale i would proberally get 1400.

    Therefore if I had this animal at the sale and you witnessed me unloading the animal and getting 1400 for her you would presume i am a rich farmer.

    How wrong you would be.

    I am into my 2nd year running a small west of Ireland family farm, it needs considerable investment to bring it up to scratch. I am currently making a loss each year but still I drive a 09 Jeep (that is not mine) and could sell an animal for 1400 (which would be my best animal).

    Do you see my point????


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 reilig
    ✭✭✭



    In Mohill last October there were as good heifers sold at similar money off the grass without meal

    QUOTE]

    I was at every mart in Mohill last October, in fact, I probably only missed 1 or 2 sales there in the last 12 months. No Heifer of any age or description made close on €3000 there at any stage in the last 12 months.

    Are you just having a rant because people are driving around in new vehicles in this time of recession and you feel that they shouldn't be? If you feel that you are making too much money from your own farming enterprise, why not give back your single payment and you can feel as if you are doing your bit for the economy. Farmers make little enough from the land. If people go out and take an off farm job, then they are entitled to make more more money than someone who only farms - and they are entitled to spend it too!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,229 pathway33
    ✭✭✭


    adne wrote: »
    I have a 10 cow suckler herd which I spend 2 Hours in morn and 2 hours in evening and weekends working at.

    how does a 10 cow suckler herd take up 4 hours a day? are you milking the cows by hand?

    i'm not trying to be funny or cheeky but i know someone who has 12 'suckler cows' as he calls them but is feeding whole milk to 40 calves by milking the cows himself. at no point do the cows suckle the calves. he doesn't have a milking parlour, just a one unit mobile milking 'machine' which he plugs in. he then individually feeds the calves so as to give them the exact amount he wants. the guy is working 12 hours a day.

    i presume a lot of your 4 hours is taken up updating the farm.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,222 adne
    ✭✭✭


    you got it in one.. most of my work is getting farm up to scratch


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,506 MfMan
    ✭✭✭


    To add to the debate, I don't think there's an awful lot of money in *full-time* farming; the new vehicles referred to by Massey woman possibly belonged to dealers (not that they all have new jeeps etc. either), older farmers (with no mortgages, raised families etc.) or part-time farmers with a reasonable job (and who have invested in new stuff because they can't afford to have older unreliable machinery or because they have a bit of money to hide!!!) At an ordinary mart you wouldn't see an awful lot of '08s / '09s etc. For a younger farmer, possibly with a mortgage to pay and a young family, margins would be tight, especially on a smaller set-up. I am currently working and farming part-time on behalf of my elderly parents (who are mostly unable to). Looking back on '08 figures if I was farming full-time I / we would have made a reasonable net profit, including SFP REPS etc., mainly thanks to stronger beef prices. It's unlikely though that I would have more than a middling standard of living doing it day-in day-out, particularly given the precarious beef prices every year - I would want to be working as efficiently as possible given my current acreage and I wouldn't have much left over for capital investment either.

    I hope not too many non-farmers saw what Massey woman saw that night as it would be more fuel for the anti-farmer bashing! No harm to discuss it though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 massey woman
    ✭✭


    Hello everybody and back again to the forum
    Unfortunately I was out of the country for the last few days and was unable to post in the interim.
    I am pleased with the number of people who read the thread and also those who responded, thank you, I can assure you all that I am well aware of the economic realities of farming and wish there was a reasonable living to be made.As all the economic commentators would say the devil is in the detail and I merely asked the question in anticipation of stimulating reaction.Sometimes when we read something we see what we want to see and some of you didnt see the question mark.From a quick scan at the Farmers Journal I see I did an injustice to the vendor of the heifers . It appears the top price was €3200 and not €3000 as I said so even better than I thought. Reilig I know you will be delihted to know that a Cloone man achieved the prices I quoted last October having checked my facts with John Nicholl. Michael Bei**e is very happy with the two springers he paid €2,400 and €2,600 last spring.
    The point I am making is that even in the face of very challenging conditions there are people -maybe entrepreneurs hope thats the correct spelling-who have absolutely sh***e land and little resourses and can still make more per acre than the barons in Meath and Kildare.
    In every community there are achievers and as I said the best of luck to them be they in Mayo, Elphin, Mohill or Cloone. How many of you tomorrow will take the trek to Athlone to see the €1,000 weanlings farmer.
    It seems that this farmer stands out among the majority. who have replied
    I am looking forward to further discussion on his success and to see how many of you will pick up the mantle. Will ther be any IFA people there ??
    Please let me know


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 reilig
    ✭✭✭


    Hello everybody and back again to the forum
    Unfortunately I was out of the country for the last few days and was unable to post in the interim.
    I am pleased with the number of people who read the thread and also those who responded, thank you, I can assure you all that I am well aware of the economic realities of farming and wish there was a reasonable living to be made.As all the economic commentators would say the devil is in the detail and I merely asked the question in anticipation of stimulating reaction.Sometimes when we read something we see what we want to see and some of you didnt see the question mark.From a quick scan at the Farmers Journal I see I did an injustice to the vendor of the heifers . It appears the top price was €3200 and not €3000 as I said so even better than I thought. Reilig I know you will be delihted to know that a Cloone man achieved the prices I quoted last October having checked my facts with John Nicholl. Michael Bei**e is very happy with the two springers he paid €2,400 and €2,600 last spring.
    The point I am making is that even in the face of very challenging conditions there are people -maybe entrepreneurs hope thats the correct spelling-who have absolutely sh***e land and little resourses and can still make more per acre than the barons in Meath and Kildare.
    In every community there are achievers and as I said the best of luck to them be they in Mayo, Elphin, Mohill or Cloone. How many of you tomorrow will take the trek to Athlone to see the €1,000 weanlings farmer.
    It seems that this farmer stands out among the majority. who have replied
    I am looking forward to further discussion on his success and to see how many of you will pick up the mantle. Will ther be any IFA people there ??
    Please let me know


    Well, I was wrong when I said that no heifers made that money in Mohill last year, But to be honest, I felt that your first post about the prices of cattle in Mohill suggested that most heifers made this kind of money when the reality was that probably only 2 made this kind of money. In my opinion, these were an exception rather than a rule, and again the buyer did not make his money from farming or farming related activities and he bought them for show rather than for normal commercial farming.

    Just as the few heifers sold in Elphin for €2k to €3k were an exception to the rule of thumb. Your first post suggested to the non-farmer that all cattle in Elphin made these prices when the reality was that the average price paid was in fact relatively low for heifers - as published in last week's Farmers Journal.

    Again, your above post which I have quoted gives the non-farmer that may be reading it the opinion that Farmers in the Cloone area or other areas in leitrim with equally poor land, are making as much profit per acre as farmers in County Meath are making on land which would be classified as being top quality. Once again these farmers?/this farmer in Cloone really is the exception to the rule. Non Farmers reading your post could interprit your posts in the wrong way and determine that farmers in leitrim and other counties that would be classified as having disadvantaged land and receiving extra subsidies for this may not deserve any extra money because they are all doing better that Farmers in Meath. The next round of SFP's after 2013 have been proposed that they will pay higher subsidies to disadvantaged areas like our own. I feel that we deserve a higher subsidy than a farmer in Meath who has high quality land, 3 month winters and local access to grain at "off the combine" prices. I feel that if we don't continue to get these subsidies after 2013 in Leitrim, the whole industry will collapse around here, people won't farm because they will be making a loss. Land will be planted. Leitrim will be a forest county.

    I don't mean to be critical, but we farmers get enough stick as it is. When I was in college years ago, we got criticised by everyone because we were eligable for grants and I even had people tell me that my father's full wage was paid by the state and he didn't deserve it and he should go out and get a proper job. At the time he had 40 acres, 5 children and a mortgage.

    Being a farmer yourself, you know the work that is involved. You know how hard it is to make a small profit or how easy it is to make a huge loss. You know the work that farmers do to deserve the payments. Reps measures are primarily for the benefit of the environment rather than for the benefit of the farmer. We have to be careful when we highlight the positive thing of farmng - like the great prices achieved for animals, or the vehicles purchased by profits from non farming activities. Sometimes people looking in at the industry from outside will think that these are the norm and that they are paid for by the taxpayer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 massey woman
    ✭✭


    Reilig at the risk of incurring the wrath of every farmer can I say I am not sure that every farmer seeks to maximise the total potential of their farms. That is my experience. In my business I deal with hundreds of farmers nationally and I know maybe only 20 farmers who I would consider 100%professional.
    These farmers extract the maximum from their land,buildings,stock,machinery etc by running an efficent operation based on return on both asets and capital.
    They manage carefully input costs and build profitable relations with their customers.
    The last thing they manage is the 'brown envelope' which is seen as an incentive for poor performance, something you qualify for as a result of often political representation.
    At the weekend 4 of us went to see the exhibition of BB cattle at Glasson ,maybe you were there
    What we saw there was 100% professional operation from start to finish
    We were told that this farmer bought all his land and built all his accommodation without any GRANTS and what an operation he has
    This man had a vision and a plan and boy has he capitalised on it
    His aim is to achieve €1000 for every weanling ,after 260 births last year he had only 6 sections and lost none of them. He had weanlings on display that he sold from €3,200 to €5,500.
    Thats what I call farming.
    We can all say we have bad land etc but they made the point that with appropriate attention to detail any farmer can achieve these numbers whether he has 10 cows or 100 and that its much easier if the numbers are lower. In relation to Meath farmers my experience is that they are so different from west of Ireland farmers that unless work can be done from the cab of the tractor it wont be done. Also where does the Meath man go for his stores, Drumshambo,Mohill , Elphin thats where he gets the best return on his investment ?
    He knows that the western farmer only gets one chance to maximise his sale and this is at weanling stage so the better the calf the bigger the cheque
    In a very changed economy I cant see these grants lasting much longer Reality will dawn for many that we farmers are by in large a privileged asset rich sector -especially the ones who inherited their land-who still have the option to sell part of their holdings if they need money unlike the paye man/woman making repayments on an overpriced home having paid extortionate sums for a roof over their heads


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 reilig
    ✭✭✭


    Reilig at the risk of incurring the wrath of every farmer can I say I am not sure that every farmer seeks to maximise the total potential of their farms. That is my experience. In my business I deal with hundreds of farmers nationally and I know maybe only 20 farmers who I would consider 100%professional.
    These farmers extract the maximum from their land,buildings,stock,machinery etc by running an efficent operation based on return on both asets and capital.
    They manage carefully input costs and build profitable relations with their customers.
    The last thing they manage is the 'brown envelope' which is seen as an incentive for poor performance, something you qualify for as a result of often political representation.
    At the weekend 4 of us went to see the exhibition of BB cattle at Glasson ,maybe you were there
    What we saw there was 100% professional operation from start to finish
    We were told that this farmer bought all his land and built all his accommodation without any GRANTS and what an operation he has
    This man had a vision and a plan and boy has he capitalised on it
    His aim is to achieve €1000 for every weanling ,after 260 births last year he had only 6 sections and lost none of them. He had weanlings on display that he sold from €3,200 to €5,500.
    Thats what I call farming.
    We can all say we have bad land etc but they made the point that with appropriate attention to detail any farmer can achieve these numbers whether he has 10 cows or 100 and that its much easier if the numbers are lower. In relation to Meath farmers my experience is that they are so different from west of Ireland farmers that unless work can be done from the cab of the tractor it wont be done. Also where does the Meath man go for his stores, Drumshambo,Mohill , Elphin thats where he gets the best return on his investment ?
    He knows that the western farmer only gets one chance to maximise his sale and this is at weanling stage so the better the calf the bigger the cheque
    In a very changed economy I cant see these grants lasting much longer Reality will dawn for many that we farmers are by in large a privileged asset rich sector -especially the ones who inherited their land-who still have the option to sell part of their holdings if they need money unlike the paye man/woman making repayments on an overpriced home having paid extortionate sums for a roof over their heads


    That is not my point. I was trying to say that in your previous posts, and your oriniginal post, you were showing the farming sector as a sector which has high sales figures that lead to huge profit margins and a comfortable lifestyle when in fact the opposite is the case. You used 3 or 4 exceptional sale prices to demonstrate this and your posts would lead someone from a non farming background to believe that these prices were the norm for all cattle. This is not the case as you well know.

    Farmers may be asset rich, but 95% of farmers struggle to make the equivalent of minimum wage for the hours that they put in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 178 thetangler
    ✭✭


    "He had weanlings on display that he sold from €3,200 to €5,500"
    Hi Massey Woman.
    If he had these weanlings on display who bought them ?
    Were they Heifers or Bulls ?
    How many made over €2000
    Were they sold in the ring, if so where was the sale ?


    Thanks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,222 adne
    ✭✭✭


    Massey_Woman

    There is a world of a difference between land in Glasson and Land in Leitrim / South Sligo.

    Therefore a world of a difference between the stock that come from this land. Time for you to wake up..... not all farmers have that quality of land at their disposal.....:mad::mad:


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,202 Bitten & Hisses
    ✭✭✭


    at the risk of incurring the wrath of every farmer can I say I am not sure that every farmer seeks to maximise the total potential of their farms. That is my experience. In my business I deal with hundreds of farmers nationally and I know maybe only 20 farmers who I would consider 100%professional.

    This is an excellent point and one which may get lost in this discussion. There are too many farmers in Ireland who do not use their resources as well as they could. While I would generally take the Farmers Journal with a grain of salt, they consistently advise beef farmers in particular to improve their technical efficiency rather than moaning about price. In my experience, we can often spend too much time arguing over something we can't control rather than focusing our attention on matters inside our own gate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 940 kerryman12
    ✭✭✭


    Hi all interesting thread.

    First off lets all take a step back and a deep breath. In and out. ok.

    Seems to me MW has a a good understanding of what is involved in farming based on comments/backround etc. As farmers we can all be guilt of focusing on the negative,; " How are you keeping Jonny?; ah not to bad". I have never heard one of us say "good" to that question - myself included.:rolleyes:

    Anyway back to the topic at hand. These are fair questions and observations. There is nothing to be afraid of in a bit of debate/discussion. But lets look at some fact;
    We all know that the numbers involved in farming are decreasing drastically, there is but one reason for this income. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule but generally speaking we cant escape the truth.
    I certainly think there is a truth in what MW says about professionalism, but like all thinks in life it isnt black and white. A lot of guys dont know how, or simply dont want to change - change isnt always the answear in any case.
    There have always and will always be headline sales with big prices in farming - like any other sector but it is a mistake to try and apply this to everyone in this sector.Could we all do with trying to take the best practice that works for us from these headline stories of course we could.

    So is there loads of money in farming, you already know the answear to that one me think, MW.

    regards


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 98 Colmm23
    ✭✭


    Following on from your point MW about the farmer in Glasson who bought all his land and built top class falicilities without any grants from the government.

    Did you happen to find out where this money did come from?
    I for one can tell you it most certainly didn't come from farming, now dont get me wrong the money used was legitimate and to further the point it is very easy farm efficently when you have lots of capital available to you at the outset.

    Throw away that shovel MW before you dig a bigger hole for yourself;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 massey woman
    ✭✭


    Colm
    Interesting to see the point you raise
    Never crossed my mind to wonder where he got the capital for his business
    All I know about him is that from what I saw he has a fantastic enterprise that would be the dream of any farmer-period
    What I heard on the day was that he bought the farm himself with I assume money he earned himself , built the accommodation ,and grew his business over a period of time
    Unlike many he didnt inherit the business or sit on his arse or draw social welfare like many land owners.
    I really admire this mans success I also greatly admire those who try hard and just dont make it for reasons beyond their control. I know the feeling and have been there
    I know nothing about him but surely he is an example to us all in these times of economic bankruptcy
    We need people like him to step up to the mark and be counted as a leader,entrepreneur and employer
    From the comments to date the feelings are 50/50 whether theres money in farming or not,surely he proves there is
    Harvard College manuals are full of articles on people and businesses who have performed above and beyond their peers in many different sectors
    It is up to us to maximise the benefits of their experience
    If I were to comment on your shovel suggestion I would suggest you bury your negativity and go for it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 brianthebard
    ✭✭✭✭


    I know nothing about him but surely he is an example to us all in these times of economic bankruptcy

    Eh no, no he's not. You admit that you know nothing about where his money comes from and yet make him the basis of your new farming economy in Ireland? Do you not see that because he didn't inherit the land, but instead came into money, either through inheritance or business, or even the lotto (you can't say one way or the other) he was in a better position fiscally than the majority of farmers in Ireland? Tbh I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt earlier but now you just sound more and more irrational, taking into account nothing of the history of Farming in the state, seeking out monied entrepreneurs as your example of what farming should be. If you think the ideal for Irish farmers is a small number of rich elite businessmen buying up property for sport or because grandaddy was a farmer, and then making what they will of it, then fine, but you don't represent the majority or even a small minority of what farming is in this country or who farmers are.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 161 Mr.Success
    ✭✭


    A few weeks ago I attended an IFA regional protest march in Carrick on Shannon.
    The march was well attended and was highlighting the on going Government cuts impacting on falling farm incomes
    While being from farming stock,a land owner and part time farmer I broadly support the efforts of the farming organisations to improve the lot of the small family farmers
    Tonight I attended a Springer heifer sale in Elphin Mart where heifers of varying quality made outrageous prices
    Two and a half year old heifers sold up to €3,000 nice money I am sure you will agree
    Good luck to the vendor and best of luck to the buyers for they sure will need it
    You will agree also I am sure a very satisfactory result in the current depression with so many people losing their jobs and struggling to make ends meet ,rear kids pay mortage, child minder etc
    When we came out from the sale we were drawn by the number of 08LM and 08RN top of the range John Deere tractors complete with pristine front loaders and Dooley 20' + cattle trailers, 08 and 09 RN,CN,LM 4 x 4 Jeeps and land rovers with 6 wheel Aerlite and Ifor Williams cattle trailers all lined up to load their purchases
    We walked about a half mile to our car and can confirm that there were 09LM brand new mercedes and top of the range Volvo S 80 among the many vehicles parked along the Carrick road as the car park was full of 4 x 4's
    Please tell me wher are the 'POOR' farmers that the IFA were on about in Carrick on Shannon
    They were certainly not representative of the attendees there in Elphin tonight
    Am I missing something please tell me where the moneys coming from

    Yet you never seem to notice the old massey 165 with a cab falling apart parked out side and an old trailer from the 70s behing it that brought maybe 2 weanlings from about 10 miles away just so some creature can pay a nasty unexpected bill.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement