Traditional GAA Superpowers

CyberDave

I know in recent decades that the success of the likes of Kilkenny, Cork and Tipp in the hurling and Kerry in the football is because of their great history and the conveyor belt of great players within these counties. What do people think is the reason these counties became so powerful in the first place back in the 1910's 1920's. This question came to mind when I read Ger Loughanes 'Raising the Banner' book.

Much of the book served only to glorify his own decisions and achievements as a manager, but one thing he mentioned which I thought was a valid point. Was, that the reason the likes of Kilkenny, Cork and Tipp became so prolific in the first place was based on the fact that other counties had an ingrained agricultural psyche that these counties had better land and produce and hence were better than them, so they would have to be better teams as well.

What are people thoughts?

Pride Fighter

Interesting theory about agricultural land being a factor. Dublin have 6 AI hurling titles but have not won a thing in 47 years. Dublin has some of the best farmland in the country too. It is irrelevant now in football but in hurling the traditional counties always seem to dominate.

CyberDave

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Interesting theory about agricultural land being a factor. Dublin have 6 AI hurling titles but have not won a thing in 47 years. Dublin has some of the best farmland in the country too. It is irrelevant now in football but in hurling the traditional counties always seem to dominate.

But, it's strange how he same counties like Kilkenny, Tipp and Cork (to a certain extent) are not as dominant in football as well. It definitely makes sense that because of the better land, these counties would have had more financial success and hence more money for recreation. Kerry are the most successful football county and they wouldn't be as good agricuturally as Cork, Tipp and Kilkenny, so, I wonder what is the logical reason that they became successful in the first place. Maybe it's because of the coast and fishing industry of old? Why are the football strongholds different? The Dubs would have been originally successful in hurling and more so in football probably because of the 'big city/town' inferiority complex of people outside Dublin.

If you think about it, all the strong hurling regions are located around the Cork, Tipp, Kilkenny axis. Like East Clare, South Galway, Waterford, Wexford, Limerick. It has to be remembered also, that one of the reasons the GAA was originally formed as a guise for training in the fight for independence, this may have had a bearing on the developement of the heirarchy of counties in the different codes.

keane2097

GAA skills having to do with the standard of agricultural land in a county is retarded imo.

CyberDave

keane2097 wrote: »

GAA skills having to do with the standard of agricultural land in a county is retarded imo.

You obviously don't understand the point I am making. I am not talking about agricultural effects on skills. I am talking of the psychological inferiority complex some counties would have had towards the superpowers as we know them, in the early years of the GAA because of their prominance in agriculture, which would have been very important at the time. You can have all the skills in the world, but they are no good to you if you don't have belief in your own ability.

keane2097

CyberDave wrote: »

You obviously don't understand the point I am making. I am not talking about agricultural effects on skills. I am talking of the psychological inferiority complex some counties would have had towards the superpowers as we know them, in the early years of the GAA because of their prominance in agriculture, which would have been very important at the time. You can have all the skills in the world, but they are no good to you if you don't have belief in your own ability.

Thanks for the clarification - I understand what you're saying better now..

Still think it's pretty much hogwash though tbh...

K-9

CyberDave wrote: »

But, it's strange how he same counties like Kilkenny, Tipp and Cork (to a certain extent) are not as dominant in football as well. It definitely makes sense that because of the better land, these counties would have had more financial success and hence more money for recreation. Kerry are the most successful football county and they wouldn't be as good agricuturally as Cork, Tipp and Kilkenny, so, I wonder what is the logical reason that they became successful in the first place. Maybe it's because of the coast and fishing industry of old? Why are the football strongholds different? The Dubs would have been originally successful in hurling and more so in football probably because of the 'big city/town' inferiority complex of people outside Dublin.

If you think about it, all the strong hurling regions are located around the Cork, Tipp, Kilkenny axis. Like East Clare, South Galway, Waterford, Wexford, Limerick. It has to be remembered also, that one of the reasons the GAA was originally formed as a guise for training in the fight for independence, this may have had a bearing on the developement of the heirarchy of counties in the different codes.

Dublins early superiority owed a lot to country lads working in Dublin playing with them because of transport problems and later post 1916, the Independence struggle.

After 1923, Dublin have won only 8 AI's I think in football. That fact often gets ignored!

Frankie Lee

I heard something on the radio last year about hurling counties having more suitable soil for ash trees to grow in, I didn't get how that explained there dominance though.

smashey

keane2097 wrote: »

GAA skills having to do with the standard of agricultural land in a county is retarded imo.

keane2097 wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification - I understand what you're saying better now..

Still think it's pretty much hogwash though tbh...

You need to find a more polite way of phrasing things or there will be trouble.

mumhaabu

A person can go into this massively, people in the west of Ireland are genetically different also from those of the eastern seaboard. Another factor in Kerry's case is the amount of rain we receive which is twice or three times Dublin's amount. That and general poverty has created a fit race where words such as obesity are unheard of. Agricultural land has nothing to do with it as Kerry has amongst the worst the land in Ireland yet in the good parts of North Kerry and at the southern Cork border Hurling is prominent, so maybe good land fosters hurling but not football.

As they say in some parts of Kerry, Cork bate, Hay saved and Turf home makes for a good summer. None of these three would be achieved by your average Kerry farmer this year! Oh and taking their good looking women is also another good one, although this may dilute the genetic superiority of the master footballing race!

Love thy neighbour but hammer them in Croke Park, I feel GAA has bonded Ireland's tribal counties as it allows us to declare war on each other without actually fighting except in the case of the Battle of Omagh, Dublin won the battle but ultimately lost the war!

Pride Fighter

mumhaabu wrote: »

so maybe good land fosters hurling but not football.

That was the point of the OP, maybe you should reread. And I think Kerry will lose tomorrow:P

grenache

I was always told by father and several other local historians that .....

GOOD AGRICULTURAL LAND = HURLING
BAD AGRICULTURAL LAND = FOOTBALL

And if you look at the map, it does make sense. Now obviously there are some exceptions to the rule i.e. Dublin and Meath in hurling

If you look at areas where hurling is the main sport, places such as East Clare, most of Tipp, most of Limerick, North & East Cork, all Kilkenny, South Galway, south Offaly, most of Wexford, central and East Waterford.....the agricultural land is flat, good green pasture land and ideal for the small ball game. So therefore for centuries, it would have been more practical for hurling to have been played in these areas. For example, in The Golden Vale, probably the best agricultural land in the country, which covers central and east Limerick, north Cork and central and south Tipp, hurling is king.

Back in the early days of the GAA, the topography of fooball heartlands, such as Kerry, West Cork, West Limerick, West Waterford, West & North Galway, Derry, Mayo, North Offaly, Tyrone, Donegal, Westmeath etc was not condusive to the playing of hurling, (try finding a sliotar on mountain!) thus gaelic football was the natural alternative, and the big ball game blossomed in these areas.

bill_ashmount

mumhaabu wrote: »

That and general poverty has created a fit race where words such as obesity are unheard of.

The Kerry Master Race...:D

Is the reason so many Kerry people live in Cork part of the liebensraum effect....

djScarey

My theory is that once upon a time second rate Kilkenny hurlers had to go to nearby counties to find work.

westcork

I read before that hurling was closely linked with the landlords in the past and that prior to the GAA being formed, the landlords would "compete" with each other through their hurling teams - tenants who could hurl well were better looked after etc and a strong hurling culture developed - the areas now strong in hurling would have had a strong local landlord culture in those days whereas the coasts etc didn't attract as much interest from our foreigner guests and as such football took a hold

Orizio

Some interesting posts, maybe football would have been cheaper to play past and present, not having to buy a hurley for example.

I'm sure its a mix of many different things rather then just one thing.

HalloweenJack

I was told in primary school that the strong hurling counties corresponded to the major limestone areas on the island. It does also relate to the bigger agricultural counties.

I know my grandfather grew up on a farm near the Devil's Bit in Tipp. There was always big spaces of the field left open and they'd go out and play hurling there every day.

In urban areas green spaces are smaller and rarer.