Football Handpass 'No Goal' Rule - Discuss

redspider

I think the rule in football should be changed where if a player handpasses the ball into the net it is 'dissallowed' and results in a wide/kick-out.

This was exemplified over the weekend where Tyrone 'didnt score' a goal with a handpass (Kavanagh) and then Mayo did score a goal with a double-handed push-volley. It seems against the spirit of the game to allow one and not the other. Arguably the handpass goal is much more difficult than the two-handed push-volley into the net. Also, you are allowed to score a goal with a single fist.

Allowing handpass goals would also remove an ambiguity and indeed contradiction in football where you are allowed to handpass it (fist or push off the hand) over the bar and score a point, but if a more difficult attempt to drop a similar handpass into the net goes in it is completely dissallowed. This is madness in my opinion as you are penalising a skill.

I for one would welcome a rule change and allow handpass goals to be re-introduced, or else dissallow handpass scores completely (points and goals, and pushes and fists, etc). ie: make it foot-ball.

Thoughts ?

Redspider

Yavvy

fine the way it is in my opinion. not sure what your issue is exactly, there is no ambiguity on the matter. if you want to score a goal kick it.

Stealdo

Couldn't disagree more redspider. I think it was a horrible sight to see a player one on one with a goalkeeper and punch the ball into the net. On the other hand the fisted goal from a ball played into a player is a great skill and adds plenty of drama to high balls played into the square. There is little or no skill in handpassing the ball over the head of an onrushing goalkeeper into the net, and it would mean that goalies always have to stay on their line in 1v1 situations to avoid this meaning that the role of shot stopping keepers would be greatly diminished. I'd have nothing against the fisted point.

redspider

Stealdo wrote: »

I think it was a horrible sight to see a player one on one with a goalkeeper and punch the ball into the net. On the other hand the fisted goal from a ball played into a player is a great skill. There is little or no skill in handpassing the ball over the head of an onrushing goalkeeper into the net.

Well, if you deem a handpass goal ugly then a handpass point should be equally as ugly if not more so, as the point is far easier to do skills-wise. If a goal is dissallowed shouldnt a point be dissallowed also?

I dont agree that a fisted goal in or near the square is a greater skill. In fact, it isnt. It is a far lesser skill and relies more on height advantage (McDonagh, Kerry) rather than say a Peter Canavan style of player. There is great skill in getting a handpass goal. Remember the halcyon days of when football was in the golden era with the Dubs and Kerry was when handpass goals were allowed!

Redspider

keystone

This rule was changed in the early 80's I think.

You were allowed to fist a goal and if you have ever watched the great Kerry and Dublin teams of the 70's and 80's you would see that fisted goals make a mockery of the game. I'd recommend looking at some footage of this.

A fisted point is rightly allowed as an attacking option. A fisted goal from a pass is a much harder skill obviously so is rightly part of the game.

I'm not sure what you point is and I'd agree with the other posters completely.

Zzippy

Disagree OP, handpass goals should not be allowed. Too hard to defend against for a goalkeeper. I do think a fisted goal direct from a pass or a high dropping ball is a great skill and should be allowed, however, I'm not gone on the open handed push from a pass a la Mortimer's goal on Saturday - I think it should be a closed fist or one-handed slap i.e. a striking motion and not a pushing motion.

I'm not too fond of handpass points though, they weren't allowed while I was still playing football (yes I gave up early to concentrate on hurling), but it just seems wrong. It is gaelic football, after all...

redspider

> you would see that fisted goals make a mockery of the game.

I agree that when the fisted hand-pass was 'adapted' and morphed into a hand push-shove some seasons in the 70's, scoring with that technique looked at times ugly and went against the spirit of the game as players were more or less throwing the ball into the net. But that type of finish IS allowed nowadays, ad is much worse than a fisted handpass goal. I still think that a fisted pass from the hand should be allowed to score a goal as equally as it is allowed to score a point. ie: there should not be a difference of where the ball ends up. Imagine if in Hurling you werent allowed to score a goal from a free. That would be idiotic.

Zzippy wrote: »

I do think a fisted goal direct from a pass or a high dropping ball is a great skill and should be allowed, however, I'm not gone on the open handed push from a pass a la Mortimer's goal on Saturday - I think it should be a closed fist or one-handed slap i.e. a striking motion and not a pushing motion.

I'm not too fond of handpass points though

It is gaelic football, after all...

So, you can see some of the deficiencies in the current system, and I agree with you there. I have no problem if fisted handpass points were also not allowed, but the rule should be consistent. And goals ala Mortimers two-handded volleyball push should not be allowed at all imo. But if fisted goals remain, ala a single hand, there is a strong argument that fisted handpass goals (and hence points) should also be valid.

Redspider

Nalced_irl

redspider wrote: »

I think the rule in football should be changed where if a player handpasses the ball into the net it is 'dissallowed' and results in a wide/kick-out.

This was exemplified over the weekend where Tyrone 'didnt score' a goal with a handpass (Kavanagh) and then Mayo did score a goal with a double-handed push-volley. It seems against the spirit of the game to allow one and not the other. Arguably the handpass goal is much more difficult than the two-handed push-volley into the net. Also, you are allowed to score a goal with a single fist.

Allowing handpass goals would also remove an ambiguity and indeed contradiction in football where you are allowed to handpass it (fist or push off the hand) over the bar and score a point, but if a more difficult attempt to drop a similar handpass into the net goes in it is completely dissallowed. This is madness in my opinion as you are penalising a skill.

I for one would welcome a rule change and allow handpass goals to be re-introduced, or else dissallow handpass scores completely (points and goals, and pushes and fists, etc). ie: make it foot-ball.

Thoughts ?

Redspider

I agree. I dont see what is wrong with it. You can handpass over the bar but not into the net, which i think makes no sense. Almost like saying in Soccer you cant sidefoot it into the net I dont feel that strongly on it but dont see the reason for it tbh.

Tristram

Think the rule is fine as is. What was the reason it was brought in originally (too young here to know). What I would like to see is some kinda limit on consecutive handpasses (like the Dubai Rules propose for International Rules). Prolly a nightmare to enforce tho.

oneeyedman

Scores from the hand should not be allowed - there is no skill involved in fisting or palming a ball over the bar or past the goalie from 5/10 meters a la donaghy/cavanagh/mcmanamin at the weekend- outlaw hand passed points altogether

Zzippy

redspider wrote: »

>
But if fisted goals remain, ala a single hand, there is a strong argument that fisted handpass goals (and hence points) should also be valid.
Redspider

No, they are completely different. A fisted handpass goal/point requires f*ck all skill to execute - you're already in control of the ball and its easy to direct it wherever you want. A fisted goal requires meeting the ball in flight (you are not in control of the ball) and directing it in a split second, often while other players are trying to fist it or catch it too. It requires great skill to execute and often strength and athleticism to beat other players to the ball in the air.
Its akin to a volley in soccer as opposed to dribbling the ball into an empty net cos the linesman didn't see you were offside...

Imposter

The fisted point is good as it means that the defenders can't just watch the feet of the attacker. Otherwise it would prove to be very difficult to score in or around the square and we'd see even fewer goals imo.

thirdmantackle

Points scored with the fist (or hand as is allowed in most cases) should also be disallowed

some teams just run towards the goalposts and don't have the skill to kick it over the bar so just use the hand. its pathetic

john concannon

I hate all this sh1te about banning the handpass.What stupid arse thought that would work.Here are some reasons it would backfire ;

*It will create more aimless clearances in the already bad matches in the future.
*It will slow down the pace of the game.
*Blocks will lose there vigor and they won't seem as great as they used to be .Who doesn't love to see a good block.

It doesn't help that public figures like Pat Spillane berate Nothern teams for playing in a style that has won Tyrone,Armagh and Donegal etc win several All-Irelands.

I even think that Kerry would win every All-Ireland in near future as Nothern sides seem to be the only teams to really be able to hold their own with the exception of Cork and maybe Dublin(we'll wait and see) against Kerry.

Culchie

redspider wrote: »

Remember the halcyon days of when football was in the golden era with the Dubs and Kerry was when handpass goals were allowed!

Redspider

So was snooker and darts ... it had more to do with nostlgia, rivalry and colour tv than the standard of football.

Watch one of those 'golden era' games....standard, skill and fitness all far inferior to today.

For me late 90's ...Galway brought their own brand of football ...lifted my spirits again.... last weekends drivel was close to a low point from footballing standard point of view

Waylander

I agree Culchie the action last weekend was woeful but I think people are over reacting to that. Eugene Mc Kenna was saying that it proves the entire qualifier system obviously needed to be revamped after that, which I found to be a totally bizarre statement. There were 3 poor matches, it happens sometimes.

Back on topic, I think the rules for goal are fine as they stand. I do agree with TMT though the hand passed point could be eliminated. Several times I have seen players bearing down on goals but afraid to kick the ball over the bar because they are not shooting well, so getting in close enough to fist it. I think that is a little pathetic from Inter County standard forwards.