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Why are radiators commonly placed under windows?

  • 25-05-2007 11:20pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭


    Why are radiators commonly placed under windows? Don't architects know anything about curtains?
    Why are heating pipes run alongside exterior walls? Does anybody know how much heat is lost directly to outside.
    Back in the bungalow bliss days the main heating pipes were under the center of the house so much of the heat lost from the pipes rose into the house.


Comments

  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Simple answer is to counteract the down draught caused by having large single glazed windows. Curtains are only effective at night.;)

    Heating pipes along external walls... :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    Simple answer is to counteract the down draught caused by having large single glazed windows
    Why place them under double glazed low e windows.
    Curtains are only effective at night
    You aren't hearing me right. Radiators are not effective when covered by curtains. A radiator behind a good quality curtain just pumps heat out the window and does little to heat the room.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,550 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    2 stroke wrote:
    Why place them under double glazed low e windows..........
    A radiator behind a good quality curtain just pumps heat out the window and does little to heat the room.
    Contradictory comments


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 189 ✭✭AidoCQS


    A window is dead space anyway, you cannot put a cupboard, or chair there. Its about maximising usable wall space


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Pataman


    I was always told if the window was a little draughty, at least the air would be warmed by the rad.


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  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    2 stroke wrote:
    You aren't hearing me right. Radiators are not effective when covered by curtains. A radiator behind a good quality curtain just pumps heat out the window and does little to heat the room.

    In my previous house we used to tuck the curtain behind the radiator ;) but yes having a curtain in front of a radiator is a bit pointless.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,332 ✭✭✭311


    Its actually the hardest route ,to place radiators under windows.
    I always install radiators under windows ,purely because it takes up the least space. And looks the best centred under a window.

    Radiators we install are always a % higher than needed ,so placing them anywhere in a room ,makes no difference.

    Downstairs is different ,sometimes a radiator is best hidden behind something .

    If you're having trouble heating your house ,have a look at the house itself and make sure your happy with it's heat loss properties.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,901 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    _Brian_ wrote:
    Radiators we install are always a % higher than needed ,so placing them anywhere in a room ,makes no difference.

    Isn't this purely because they come is set sizes. If the room requires a 1854W heater (calculated from fabric and infiltration losses). You select the radiator that is closest to this in output, but not under.
    So the radiator might end up being 1950W. Its not going to be hugely oversized,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,332 ✭✭✭311


    We use a heat calculator ,it's a round disc with three layers.
    This gives the heat requirement for a room ,then you choose a radiator that best suits the position.

    They do come in set sizes ,but if it's bang on we usually go up a size.

    I don't think everyone uses the calculator ,but it's handy to use and it's to the latest british standards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Idleater


    2 stroke wrote:
    Why are radiators commonly placed under windows? Don't architects know anything about curtains?

    Technically, the "radiators" that you are referring to are actually "convectors" - they work by heating cold air which then rises when warmed creating a circular pattern of air, thus warming the room.

    They are usually placed under windows because generally this is the most efficient way of creating the circulatory convection pattern.

    Actual Radiators on the other hand, are generally placed on the ceiling - for example in many of the large Homeware/DIY shops (Atlantic/woodies/B&Q).

    L.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 189 ✭✭AidoCQS


    Why not use those skirting/rads that won all those awards last year if its such an issue


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    Yes, convector is the propper word. But why have it heating the air between the curtain and the window. I am not going to crumple up €3500 worth of hand made curtains to shove them behind radiators. Under floor heating is the ideal answer but I'm not ripping up my floors. I would prefer my rads placed on internal walls, then I could close my curtains and keep the heat in. Also it would reduce heat loss through the wall the rad is hanging from as it would mostly conduct to the room behind.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,550 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Im kinda lost here 2 stroke. Are you merely debating the issue or are you giving out about your own rads being below windows. Surely you would have chosen to have put them elsewhere.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    Muffler, yes I have a problem in my house but rads were in place before I bought it.
    Also I'd like some serous debate on this issue. Whole housing estates are being built with rads under the windows. Even in self builds the property owner often isn't experienced enough to go against the plumber or he's just glad the plumber showed up before the concrete trucks. To consider putting rads on another wall requires a bit of thinking ahead, and learning from others mistakes. What better place to raise the issue than here, 180 viewers in 2 days.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    nereid wrote:
    Technically, the "radiators" that you are referring to are actually "convectors" - they work by heating cold air which then rises when warmed creating a circular pattern of air, thus warming the room.

    They are usually placed under windows because generally this is the most efficient way of creating the circulatory convection pattern.

    Actual Radiators on the other hand, are generally placed on the ceiling - for example in many of the large Homeware/DIY shops (Atlantic/woodies/B&Q).

    L.

    You don't say. :rolleyes: Spare us the lecture. I think we all have a fair idea of what is meant by the word "radiator", especially in this context. Any more smart ar$e comments like this will lead to a ban.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    Nereid. as the op of this thread I appreciate your comment, unfortunatly you cannot please all of the people all of the time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    AidoCQS wrote:
    A window is dead space anyway, you cannot put a cupboard, or chair there.
    I say you should not put a rad there because thats where the curtain goes. but you could put a chair or dressing table there. A free standing rad, placed a few inches from the wall, would be acceptable I guess, but you don't see many of them since plumbers stopped using gunbarrel. Take a look under your sink window and see whats there. Could also be interesting to look in the bathroom and unsuite, see your favourite chair?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,901 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    2 stroke wrote:
    Nereid. as the op of this thread I appreciate your comment, unfortunatly you cannot please all of the people all of the time.
    In fairness, were you not aware of this? It is a very well known fact that they mostly through convection. And are refered to as convector (as in single or double) in industry, just called rads everywhere else.



    As for the OPs question. I never really gave it much thought, but not one of the radiators in my house is under a window. Its a estate house built in 1980 or a little earlier. They are in every room and are all on internal (non party) walls.

    As for the reason to being by the window. It could be (i dont know for sure, just an educated guess) because the heat output from the radiator is proportional to the difference in temperature between the radiator and surrounding air. The around the window is the coldest part of the room and the rad will output the most heat in this area. Granted some of this extra heat will be lost through the window, but its probably less than the gain or else it wouldn't be done.


    As for your curtains, moving the radiator is probably the only solution. You could install blinds, and use them instead and draw the curtains when going to bed and heat is off. Solves the problem of blocking the heat, but it also removes the thermal benefit of heavy curtains. Acceptable loss?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    Already have the blinds since we moved in, but herself indoors has just recently bought these full lenght heavy curtains with blackout lining so that the house will be "cosier" in the winter.
    We don't turn heating off at night. Its termostaticaly controlled, zoned and timed. I could stay in bed all day rather than get up to a cold room in the morning, so I have heat to the bedrooms 1 hour before we wake. I've tried out the system since fitting the curtains and with the curtains closed the roomstats keep calling for heat yet the air behind the curtains is roasting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    2 stroke wrote:
    Nereid. as the op of this thread I appreciate your comment, unfortunatly you cannot please all of the people all of the time.

    Well, I don't appreciate you starting a thread here and when you get a few answers, you go and start the same thread in the green issues forum. Now, what do you want me to do here? Do I move this thread to the other forum or do I delete it?

    Also, your original question was about positioning radiators under windows. The comment by nereid was off topic.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    Sorry smashey? After I posted this
    What better place to raise the issue than here
    I started to think.
    I was interested in seeing if the green boys would see this from a different point of view. I see it as both a green issue and a construction and architecture issue. Could you leave it up until we see the response.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭sesswhat


    Put a narrow shelf above the radiator and cut off the curtains just above this. This will divert the warm air out in front of the curtains.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    These aren't your regular off the shelf cheapo readymade supermarket curtains. Your'e talking more than €400 per pair, and professionaly fitted, wife would cut my throat if I cut them.
    Fact is rads should be placed somewhere else. I don't think anyone is fitting singleglazed windows anymore. If a window is draughty draughtseal it or call the window company back. I will probably have to look at those skirting board rads, they seem the only reasonable option other than going back in time to change plumbers to the guy that plumbed Mellors estate.


  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well, I think you have two (three if you want an early funeral :D ) choices,
    1, move the radiator to another wall.
    2, use a skirting board fan radiator.

    As for designing houses with radiators under windows, old habits die hard I suppose.

    But another reason, I can think of is that a wall mounted radiator can get in the way of furniture or be blocked from heating the room correctly by furniture.
    In a shoebox house placing it anywhere else except under the window, would make it difficult to furnish the room with out covering/blocking the radiator.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,332 ✭✭✭311


    I never had trouble with placing radiators for people.

    Any decent plumber would be more than obliging. I can't understand the issues you are having ,why did you buy the fancy curtains if your heating system works so well ?
    Why did you buy the house with the radiators under the windows.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭mjffey



    As for designing houses with radiators under windows, old habits die hard I suppose.

    As far as I know Ireland is one of the few countries that places radiators on blind walls. Everywhere on the continent it's under the windows:
    a. To heat the cold air that's comming in (Long curtains is not comming)
    b. It's the only space where you normally don't put furniture (except here in Ireland :D:D:D )

    Maybe your wife should have thought about this before buying the curtains;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    Hi MJ, havn't seen you lately. Everything o.k?. Yes, I've had that thought about wife too, but daren't speak out loud. She has been planning this for ages and they do look nice and homely. Would have thought house was finaly the way we wanted if it wasn't for this radiator thing.

    Brian
    why did you buy the fancy curtains
    Ssia money needed to be spent quickly. One must have happy wife. As a man I understand that curtains aren't actualy necessary in a house but neither is an unhappy wife.
    Why did you buy the house with the radiators under the windows
    I never had a major think about it before, one gets wiser with age I guess. The main issues when buying other than price were location, location, location and walking distance from boozer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭mjffey


    2 stroke wrote:
    Hi MJ, havn't seen you lately. Everything o.k?. .
    Everything is fine. Thanks for asking. Busy with finding a builder for the extension and busy with finding a solution for our 4 acres of land. Grass keeps growing:) . Both problems are now solve.
    2 stroke wrote:
    and walking distance from boozer.
    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D etc


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    mjffey wrote:
    Everything is fine. Thanks for asking. Busy with finding a builder for the extension and busy with finding a solution for our 4 acres of land. Grass keeps growing:) . Both problems are now solve.

    You got some cows? :D


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭mjffey


    smashey wrote:
    You got some cows? :D

    No. Clydesdale horses


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