The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

CruelCoin · 04-02-2015 6:57pm

AirBiscuit wrote: »

Is there any particular reason you think it makes you look cool acting like an arrogant snob

At no point did i make a reference to the lifestyle, etc. You did that all by yourself.

I only ever made reference to the taste of it. I'm really not sure how saying that it tastes better can be regarded as snobbish.

I suspect your real issue is with the price difference between it and mass produced beer. That chip is massive btw.

CruelCoin · 04-02-2015 7:02pm

TheDoc wrote: »

In your opinion...I'd put Bavaria far higher then those two. But the point stands, people have different tastes and opinions.

True. And granted, Bavaria is better than the others.

Capt'n Midnight · 04-02-2015 7:27pm

calex71 wrote: »

Nice money spinner for the government, VAT and Duty are calcualted as a % so the higher the price the more more they make :mad:

Excise is calculated on the % Alcohol so this will remain unchanged. Only the VAT will change, but you already pay VAT at standard rate on Alcohol, bottled waters, soft drinks, sports drinks and vegetable juices.

rarnes1 wrote: »

Isn't the point of minimum pricing to target alcohol consumption nationwide ?

It will have zero effect in Foxrock, in pubs, Diageo's customers or anywhere where people pay a premium for the brand rather than the contents.

It will only affect people who don't have money to spare.

Alcoholic Beverages account for 3.3193% of the Consumer Price Index so bumping the price will affect the inflation figures too

Idbatterim · 04-02-2015 7:32pm

Typical Fine Gael, they don't give a ****e about the hard pressed working class in this country.

It appears no party does!

Mr. J · 04-02-2015 7:45pm

I care. I am only a party of one - but I will deliver.

- I promise to ban everything in Ireland.
- Water will be permissible
- As will Wheetabix
- Everything will be banned.

We will cut down trees and flatten the landscape, knock down the mountains and the trees. We will flatten the hills and fill the lakes and rivers with concrete. I propose we knock down every building in Ireland. We will have a perfectly flat concrete country with nothing, no distracting things to look at. We will not wear clothes and we will spend our days eating wheetabix. It's the only way!

Mr. J

Leader of Wheetabix & Water (W.W.)

(Ireland's newest political party)

Banjo String · 04-02-2015 7:45pm

I emailed 3 local TD's from my area and basically told them I was disguste( that they, in response to obvious pressure placed on them by the vfi, and to raise Revenue) to hear they were even thinking of going ahead and penalising my wife and I for one of the last little luxuries I enjoy in life at the weekends.

I told them that if this was legislated for, I would not be giving them my vote in any upcoming election, and would be urging my other family members to do likewise.

Only one of them even bothered his Barney replying to me. :mad: (in saying that his response was well written and courteous, and was definitely not a 'stock' response)

I suggest every one reading this thread do likewise, especially to backbenchers. (They're already shıtting it due to Irish Water)

High time these useless bastards remembered who put them where they are, and who can just as handily remove them.

DeJa VooDoo · 04-02-2015 8:01pm

This f*cking nanny state is really beginning to piss me off.

They're now trying to tell us what or how much to drink and then taxing us accordingly.

Enough is enough, time these blueshirt scumbags were sent back to where they belong, cribbing and moaning on the opposition benches.

darkpagandeath · 04-02-2015 8:08pm

DeJa VooDoo wrote: »

This f*cking nanny state is really beginning to piss me off.

They're now trying to tell us what or how much to drink and then taxing us accordingly.

Enough is enough, time these blueshirt scumbags were sent back to where they belong, cribbing and moaning on the opposition benches.

Ah sure you all know we drink loads -Random TD-

Any supporting evidence for that -Random TD- I will get back to you on that.

Well I have evidence right here that says we are the second most expensive place in the EU to purchase Alcohol and in the middle for consumption.

-Random TD- That cant be right, You all know we drink loads... And circle jerk

And why don't they put up the price in the Dail bar if there so serious about health grounds.

Flex · 04-02-2015 8:08pm

Banjo String wrote: »

I emailed 3 local TD's from my area and basically told them I was disguste( that they, in response to obvious pressure placed on them by the vfi, and to raise Revenue) to hear they were even thinking of going ahead and penalising my wife and I for one of the last little luxuries I enjoy in life at the weekends.

I told them that if this was legislated for, I would not be giving them my vote in any upcoming election, and would be urging my other family members to do likewise.

Only one of them even bothered his Barney replying to me. :mad: (in saying that his response was well written and courteous, and was definitely not a 'stock' response)

I suggest every one reading this thread do likewise, especially to backbenchers. (They're already shıtting it due to Irish Water)

High time these useless bastards remembered who put them where they are, and who can just as handily remove them.

Leo Varadkar is the FG representative in my constituency, still emailed him though registering my opposition. And youre completely correct to email backbenchers, I did the same with a few in other Dublin constituencies. Following watsapp group conversations with friends theyre doing the same, what Ive seen seems to suggest nearly unanimous disapproval of this. Below are facts on drinking in Ireland.

Research by both the WHO and OECD shows that consumption levels are dropping in Ireland, were below a lot of EU nations and will be below average at present rates very shortly.
Ireland drinks less alcohol than most European countries; Germany, the UK, Austria and our consumption is dropping faster than Europe's, without government intervention
Problem drinkers and alcoholics have very inelastic demand, as you would expect. For example, this study on problem drinkers (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19149811) states problem drinkers have a "mean reported elasticity = -0.28" towards alcohol, meaning a 100% increase in the price of drinks would reduce their consumption by only 28%. So it doesn't address that problem (unsurprising of course since this is being done to support the VFI, as Fine Gaels own manifesto states (someone else linked this earlier, apologies I cant remember who at the moment, http://www.slideshare.net/OfficialFineGael/fine-gael-manifesto-web , slide 27 'supporting Irish pubs by banning low supermarket prices that threaten pubs viability')
Binge drinking is classed as anything more than 3 cans of beer in a single day, which is ridiculous but allows for hyperbolic false statements on bad drinking culture to guilt people into acceptance

On top of that we already have the second highest taxation on drink in Europe, which just goes to further show prices dont work on problem drinkers, they just punish people who enjoy responsible drinking

The premise of this bill is so insulting. Irish people naturally have no inhibitions when it comes to alcohol, and need the firm hand of the government to protect them from themselves. Sounds like something from Punch magazine in 19th century Britain, but its actually our own government promoting this image of us as desperate booze hounds who cant resist cheap drink.

MonkeyTennis · 04-02-2015 8:12pm

Flex wrote: »

The premise of this bill is so insulting. .

This exactly

jobbridge4life · 04-02-2015 8:12pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

I know its irresponsible but at this stage I'm just sick of this government.

Thats fine, so am I. So are plenty of the LGBT people which makes your specific targeting of us a all the more perplexing. Beyond which however being pissed off at the Government is a p!ss poor reason to vote no on any referendum (but especially this one).

Muahahaha wrote: »

Them losing the gay marriage referendum will only serve to hasten their exit from office. If a government keeps bringing referendums to the public based on their own policies and the public keeps voting them down (as we have already done on all four FG referendums with the exception of the Childrens one) then the legitimacy of that governemts power is reduced.

Nonsense. The defeat of referendums does not impact the legitimacy of a Government to any appreciable degree. Certainly it is embarrassing in the immediate news cycle but once the next story happens its gone.

You have intimated that this is an FG referendum, this is plainly incorrect. FG would never have introduced this referendum if they had a real choice. Kenny is on record saying it was not a priority.

Muahahaha wrote: »

In any case I'm just letting off steam. I'm still undecided on the gay marriage thing and am waiting to see the debate. But Leo arguing for it isn't going to enamour me to his point of view when I know well he is acting like a liberal on this issue but a conservative on the alcohol one. It's hypocrisy to suit his own personal agenda.

Which is as you assert your right. However (full disclosure) as a gay man who enjoys (and needs) his reasonably priced alcohol and wants to marry his partner, I hope you don't vote no. IF you do, and although any reason for voting no would pain me, please do not vote no because you are pissed off at the government/fine gael/leo.
To have my family denied equality would be difficult. To know that it was denied equality over the price of a can of beer would be... I actually don't know how to finish that sentence with any degree of eloquence. Suffice to say it would be horrific and cruel.

Capt'n Midnight · 04-02-2015 8:16pm

jackofalltrades wrote: »

€1 for a bottle is roughly the equivalent of paying €1.50 for a can.
How is paying €1.50 for a can of beer crazy?

Aldi are selling 500ml 4% cans for 89c

When you take out the excise duty and VAT it's about the same price as they charge for a can of baked beans. And beans cost more than barley.

This is like a return to the bad old days when for some banned books they'd only ban the paperback edition, those who could afford it could still read the hardback edition.

Kalyke · 04-02-2015 8:23pm

It will back to the days when, every day there will be Guards on the 6 One news emptying barrels of poitin down the drain!

darkpagandeath · 04-02-2015 8:31pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Aldi are selling 500ml 4% cans for 89c

When you take out the excise duty and VAT it's about the same price as they charge for a can of baked beans. And beans cost more than barley.

This is like a return to the bad old days when for some banned books they'd only ban the paperback edition, those who could afford it could still read the hardback edition.

Remind me again, Where was one of the first places that visiting old English couple got sent to see by the lads complaining we drink to much. And that visiting American Family tracing their Irish roots.

Grandeeod · 04-02-2015 8:45pm

This is all part of the grand plan to return Ireland to a nation of haves and have nots. From car loans to mortgages to the price of a can of beer. Watch it happen folks!

FG want a definitive split society to keep the books tidy. FF try to give everything to everbody so as to be popular. Its the Civil War all over again, but no guns, just accounts.

Both parties have destroyed any chance of this country ever achieving anything. As for the rest, they are just moaners and whingers with "we love being in opposition" BS.

Get the beer in while you can!

Capt'n Midnight · 04-02-2015 8:50pm

A Disgrace wrote: »

Don’t forget that units per can vary depending on the alcohol content – a unit of beer is roughly 2% of alcohol - so a can of weak beer will now be a minimum €2.20 (at 4%) – whilst something like Perlenbacher in Lidl (4.9%) now goes from €7.29 for a pack of 6 to about €15.50 - it's essentially doubling the price!!

If you stock up on the XXL packs then it's a case of going from €7.29 to €20.66 which is nearly triple the price.

Mr. J · 04-02-2015 8:56pm

I think eating 20 burgers a day is very bad for you. It WILL eventually lead to health implications later in life. There is NO DOUBT about this. 20 burgers a day for a few years will easily make you very ill.

I propose a minimum price on all burgers.

Mr. J · 04-02-2015 8:58pm

Trees sometimes fall on top of people and kill them. CUT DOWN ALL THE TREES!!!!!

snaps · 04-02-2015 9:20pm

So this minimum price? Will it be extra tax for the government or extra profit for the supermarket/shop?

FloatingVoter · 04-02-2015 9:26pm

It's a great day for gangsters. A bad day for drivers of booze trucks. It seems nobody in government watched Boardwalk Empire (I no longer expect Irish TDs to have a reading level of any kind so a knowledge of Prohibition is obviously beyond them).
I'll be able to buy taxfree drink along with my taxfree cigarettes.
And while I'm saving money as a result of this latest Oirish idea, I'll still be stepping over rich brats vomiting their guts out in Temple Bar.

RoscommonTom · 04-02-2015 9:37pm

Rotten ***** it'll be poitin for me

Capt'n Midnight · 04-02-2015 10:13pm

Mr. J wrote: »

Trees sometimes fall on top of people and kill them. CUT DOWN ALL THE TREES!!!!!

They also release oxygen which is a contributory factor in most fires.

Cienciano · 04-02-2015 10:33pm

jack presley wrote: »

I know the off licence body isn't as strong or as influential as the VFI but hopefully in the next few months they can lobby the Government(with help from the Supermarkets) to ensure that the minimum price isn't actually in the 90-110c region that we've been hearing but lower and in the region of 70-75c or so which wouldn't be the end of the world

This battle has a long way to go yet.

That's how all legislation or price rises are brought in. You want to raise income tax by 2% Leak to the papers that it'll be raised by 5%. There will be uproar. When the budget comes it's only raised by 2%. People are relieved that its only 2%

Yiikes · 04-02-2015 10:40pm

Cienciano wrote: »

That's how all legislation or price rises are brought in. You want to raise income tax by 2% Leak to the papers that it'll be raised by 5%. There will be uproar. When the budget comes it's only raised by 2%. People are relieved that its only 2%

And give it 3 years it will be a 5% tax.

LeinsterDub · 04-02-2015 10:58pm

Flex wrote: »

Binge drinking is classed as anything more than 3 cans of beer in a single day, which is ridiculous but allows for hyperbolic false statements on bad drinking culture to guilt people into acceptance

Especially when compared to the American definition http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_drinking#Definition

Spanish Eyes · 04-02-2015 11:10pm

If only the problem of falling down drunks in the streets, causing mayhem, and costing us all in police, paramedic, and hospital time was tackled, then that would, I think, be supported by all.

But because that kind of behaviour is tolerated. And it is, no amount of price gouging will solve it.

Look at Southern Europe. They drink like fish, but public drunkenness is totally frowned upon.

I'm fed up with being told what to do now at this stage.

Snickers Man · 04-02-2015 11:25pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Surely you'd be SOBERED OFF, no?

Too soon, mate. Too soon. :mad:

FloatingVoter · 04-02-2015 11:26pm

^ Exactly. The fact that some people (of all ages) are unable to drink does not mean that the rest of us should suffer. Are they doubling the prices in the Dail bar. Nope. Even though a significant percentage have attempted to excuse bad behaviour with the "I had drink taken" excuse.
Some people are bad drivers and they inevitably maim and kill people as a result. Are they raising the prices of cars as a result ?
This is the nanny state responding to attention seeking doctors who might be better served doing the jobs they are well paid for rather than clogging up the airwaves. If they want to be popstars the X Factor is recruiting. Otherwise keep your nose out of my business.
The fact that medical professionals are shocked that sick people are turning up in hospitals says a lot for our educational system.
They can also find drunk people in pubs.
Religious people are found in churches, mosques, and synagogues.
Doctors are usually found on Ireland AM.

Mr. J · 04-02-2015 11:28pm

Yeah! F*** off Enda!

Aongus Von Bismarck · 04-02-2015 11:48pm

It's hilarious to see this is what seems to mobilise the denizens of boards to rally into action and begin furiously whizzing out spam mails to their elected TDs

Having to pay a euro or two extra for bag of cheap cans or a bottle of Château Maxol

The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

Comments