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Location based arguments

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    #122
    Artful_Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Artful_Badger


    MadsL wrote: »
    You imply I post obsessively about where I live. I merely showed you that so do you. We have remarkable similar stats.

    You do though Madsl, its a running joke that mention of Merica or gun regulation was your bat signal and any thread related to America I've interacted with you in you were far and away the top poster. In that tipping thread I mentioned before I recall you posting on the first pages links to several such previous thread of which you also posted in, declaring it overdone, that it would end in disaster and then still went on to out post anyone else by quite a large margin.

    I checked any American related threads in AH over the first few pages. Your name popped up in every single one and in the longer running ones you were top poster. This isnt personal either this is just post numbers in threads relating to the issue you have with location based arguments.

    The sheer amount of time you spend so involved in such threads and topics and the fact that you living in America always comes up in these discussions that drag on so long would imo account for the amount of dickish dismissals you get based on the fact you live in America. I'm not saying you are wrong to post as much as you want on the topics you want to post on but if you're going to be knee deep in every thread related to a certain location then you're more than likely going to experience a lot of "location based arguments" offered forth in the usual end of argument manner you get in AH. Stands to reason.


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    #123
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Artful_Badger wrote: »
    You do though Madsl, its a running joke that mention of Merica or gun regulation was your bat signal and any thread related to America I've interacted with you in you were far and away the top poster. In that tipping thread I mentioned before I recall you posting on the first pages links to several such previous thread of which you also posted in, declaring it overdone, that it would end in disaster and then still went on to out post anyone else by quite a large margin.

    I checked any American related threads in AH over the first few pages. Your name popped up in every single one and in the longer running ones you were top poster. This isnt personal either this is just post numbers in threads relating to the issue you have with location based arguments.

    The sheer amount of time you spend so involved in such threads and topics and the fact that you living in America always comes up in these discussions that drag on so long would imo account for the amount of dickish dismissals you get based on the fact you live in America. I'm not saying you are wrong to post as much as you want on the topics you want to post on but if you're going to be knee deep in every thread related to a certain location then you're more than likely going to experience a lot of "location based arguments" offered forth in the usual end of argument manner you get in AH. Stands to reason.

    Now go back and read my OP. Was my complaint "dickish dismissals you get based on the fact you live in America" or was it a complaint about lazy arguments ad locum?

    Ask yourself if you are suprised that my location gets brought up on threads that deal with;

    1. Cultural norms regarding tipping (ie "tipping is American shite" when in fact it is an English custom)
    2. Cultural norms regarding guns and incidents involving guns in the US.
    3. Cultural norms regarding anything seen as "American"

    Then ask yourself if I should not be allowed to respond to comments made?


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    #124
    Artful_Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Artful_Badger


    MadsL wrote: »
    Now go back and read my OP. Was my complaint "dickish dismissals you get based on the fact you live in America" or was it a complaint about lazy arguments ad locum?

    Thats my point, I think they are one and the same. "But you don't even live in Ireland" to me isnt an argument ad locum or whatever its someone simply dismissing your opinion. Its happens regularly in AH.
    Ask yourself if you are suprised that my location gets brought up on threads that deal with;

    1. Cultural norms regarding tipping (ie "tipping is American shite" when in fact it is an English custom)
    2. Cultural norms regarding guns and incidents involving guns in the US.
    3. Cultural norms regarding anything seen as "American"

    Then ask yourself if I should not be allowed to respond to comments made?

    I dont see why I would be surprised. You live in America, you discuss topics relating to that and it comes up, you often recount experiences or mention that fact you've lived in Ireland or currently live in America.

    And not to get back into tipping but just because it originated in 16th century England or whatever your argument was, doesnt mean its not an American custom. :D

    I never said you have no right to respond either. All I'm saying is I dont see any issue with arguments ad locum as such (which are not always irrelevant either). I see regular AH dismissive lazy easy out arguments and I see you getting a lot of it in relation to living in America because you post a lot in threads that focus on the fact you live in America.

    I'd love to see that low grade, dismissive, hostile, ignorant, derisive crap driven out of the forum. But I dont think its possible to do and I dont see why this location based argument business is any more of an issue than any the rest of it to warrant special attention.


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    #125
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Artful_Badger wrote: »
    I'd love to see that low grade, dismissive, hostile, ignorant, derisive crap driven out of the forum.

    Amen.


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    #126
    Patrickheg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭Patrickheg


    Patrickheg wrote: »
    My opinion is that certain foreign based posters rub other posters up the wrong way.

    They give off the attitude that because they live abroad they are somehow better, more knowledgable and more cultured than those who choose to live in Ireland and they can't go 5 posts without mentioning the fact that they live abroad.

    Wouldn't be hard to find a few examples today


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    #127
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Patrickheg wrote: »
    Wouldn't be hard to find a few examples today

    Be my guest. But as I have said previously, this is a feedback thread about using a posters location against them, not my particular posting style.

    If you feel any of my posts break the forums charter I urge you to report them.


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    #128
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    MadsL wrote: »
    1. Cultural norms regarding tipping (ie "tipping is American shite" when in fact it is an English custom)
    2. Cultural norms regarding guns and incidents involving guns in the US.
    3. Cultural norms regarding anything seen as "American"

    Then ask yourself if I should not be allowed to respond to comments made?

    I don't think anybody is suggesting for you not to respond, just that you'll probably be involved heavily 9/10 in those type of threads, or anything to do with America. It's almost as if you actively seek them out and yes, 9/10 somebody is going to post 'Merica type posts in them.

    Now 'Merica posts are mostly dumb, the odd time they can be funny as in somebody poking fun at the meme, and that's what it is to me, similar to thinly veiled type posts.

    You gave a comparison with me posting about Donegal, as I said I'm not trying to do anything about dumb posts about Donegal and there have been some, it's AH, you'll get stupid culchie/jackeen type posts, I don't take them personally.

    PS: I can remember modding a couple of posts in politics when posters brought up a posters location, so I do get your point that it is annoying and often irrelevant to the topic. For me all it warrants is an on thread warning if it is derailing a thread and cards/bans if somebody persists.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #129
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    K-9 wrote: »
    I don't think anybody is suggesting for you not to respond, just that you'll probably be involved heavily 9/10 in those type of threads, or anything to do with America. It's almost as if you actively seek them out and yes, 9/10 somebody is going to post 'Merica type posts in them.

    I've over 10k posts on AH, not surprising that I pop up in the American threads, it would be weirder if I din't post in them.
    Now 'Merica posts are mostly dumb, the odd time they can be funny as in somebody poking fun at the meme, and that's what it is to me, similar to thinly veiled type posts.
    So as a former mod of AH you think it OK that dumb one word unoriginal posts pop up in every thread that has anything to do with America over and over again and this is not as worthy of infraction as Yore Ma?? OK. The current mods appear to (now) think differently.
    You gave a comparison with me posting about Donegal, as I said I'm not trying to do anything about dumb posts about Donegal and there have been some, it's AH, you'll get stupid culchie/jackeen type posts, I don't take them personally.

    Is "stupid culchies" actionable? Would you card it?
    EDIT: Oh look. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88696928&postcount=53

    And again this isn't about ME taking things personally, it is about standards of posting in AH.


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    #130
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    MadsL wrote: »
    I've over 10k posts on AH, not surprising that I pop up in the American threads, it would be weirder if I din't post in them.

    Ok, fair enough, you aren't going to cede my and others point, or even try and see our point, fair enough
    So as a former mod of AH you think it OK that dumb one word unoriginal posts pop up in every thread that has anything to do with America over and over again and this is not as worthy of infraction as Yore Ma?? OK. The current mods appear to (now) think differently.



    Is "stupid culchies" actionable? Would you card it?
    EDIT: Oh look. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88696928&postcount=53

    I'm an ordinary user now. I've read stupid culchie comments recently and nope, I wouldn't have carded them and I don't think they did get carded, context is key. I'm not arguing they should never be carded, so you'd need to back track your thinking a little there.
    And again this isn't about ME taking things personally, it is about standards of posting in AH.

    Well I've put up mod warnings about location based arguments in politics, seemed to cut out the problem pretty well.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #131
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    K-9 wrote: »
    Ok, fair enough, you aren't going to cede my and others point, or even try and see our point, fair enough

    Because you are trying to blame me for others behaviour, are you saying that if I stop posting the behaviour I am complaining about will stop? I doubt it. Someone like Overheal or ClaireFontaine will catch it as they have complained above.
    I'm an ordinary user now. I've read stupid culchie comments recently and nope, I wouldn't have carded them and I don't think they did get carded, context is key. I'm not arguing they should never be carded, so you'd need to back track your thinking a little there.
    But as I have linked there are times when you want people to cut out that behaviour.
    Well I've put up mod warnings about location based arguments in politics, seemed to cut out the problem pretty well.

    So you agree with my central tenant about arguments ad locum??


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    #132
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    MadsL wrote: »
    Because you are trying to blame me for others behaviour, are you saying that if I stop posting the behaviour I am complaining about will stop? I doubt it. Someone like Overheal or ClaireFontaine will catch it as they have complained above.

    I'd prefer if users ignored stupid comments or ones looking for a reaction, trolls, I've posted recently in the politics feedback thread the same. Often these type of comments are posted to get a reaction, why give them it?
    But as I have linked there are times when you want people to cut out that behaviour.



    So you agree with my central tenant about arguments ad locum??

    If it's derailing a thread well as a mod, I'd have to step in, same any other thread derailment. Often I'd let stuff go and see if anybody reacts, often nobody bites and that's great to see, posters using their idiot filter!

    Again, I'm just giving my experience with politics, the issue did come up a couple of times but on thread warnings nipped it in the bud. I totally agree with your point, if you take it to an extreme that means nobody can post about Syria, Russia whatever because they don't live there.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #133
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    K-9 wrote: »
    I'd prefer if users ignored stupid comments or ones looking for a reaction, trolls, I've posted recently in the politics feedback thread the same. Often these type of comments are posted to get a reaction, why give them it?

    Sometimes because I fail to not feed the troll, I'm human after all
    If it's derailing a thread well as a mod, I'd have to step in, same any other thread derailment. Often I'd let stuff go and see if anybody reacts, often nobody bites and that's great to see, posters using their idiot filter!

    Again, I'm just giving my experience with politics, the issue did come up a couple of times but on thread warnings nipped it in the bud. I totally agree with your point, if you take it to an extreme that means nobody can post about Syria, Russia whatever because they don't live there.

    We reached some agreement so. Codladh sámh...


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    #134
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If xenophobic posts are made. They will be actioned.

    The use of the word 'murica will not be banned. If the use of that word intends only to flame. It will be actioned    .
    AlanS181824 wrote: »
    +1

    #MURICA!
    Duff wrote: »
    'MURICA!
    Mint Aero wrote: »
    Murica!
    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    MURICA!!!!!!!!!!
    Skylinehead wrote: »
    'Murica.
    pidgeoneyes wrote: »
    'murica, and so on.
    nc19 wrote: »
    'Murica!!!
    Cormac... wrote: »
    'Murica
    5live wrote: »
    Murica...
    leBIT wrote: »
    Murica


    This really isn't happening is it?
    Perhaps it could be added to the swear filter?


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    #135
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,859 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    MadsL wrote: »
    This really isn't happening is it?
    Perhaps it could be added to the swear filter?

    How many of those did you Report?


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    #136
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    An File wrote: »
    How many of those did you Report?

    I just reported two that were posted yesterday. I don't see any pointing in reporting 3 month old posts.

    The things is that whilst most people agree that this meme is very boring and well past its sell by date, I'm not going to spend my days finding it and reporting it, there literally hundreds of examples.


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    #137
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    ...aaaand no action yet on the two I reported*. I really don't expect mods to comb AH for this behaviour but since there seems to be agreement that it is trollish then I would have though the occasional yellow card would get the message across.

    * Not that I expect mods to be online on NYE ;)


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    #138
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,859 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    I actually saw another well respected poster get a yellow card in After Hours for trying to highlight the same issue in a thread about a recent incident in Britain. The irony went right over everyone's head.


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    #139
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    MadsL wrote: »
    This really isn't happening is it?
    Perhaps it could be added to the swear filter?

    Nice one on completely missing the context of mine, but carry on. Did you read Whoopsies post yourself?


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    #140
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    Nice one on completely missing the context of mine, but carry on.

    Oh? Was it meant to be funny?
    Did you read Whoopsies post yourself?
    Of course I did - I still think most posts of "'murica" are trollish however.


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    #141
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    MadsL wrote: »
    Oh? Was it meant to be funny?

    Humour is of course subjective....the person I quoted did thank it.

    Of course I did - I still think most posts of "'murica" are trollish however.
    I would have said it's more a buzzword for highlighting yet another silly incident involving guns in America, you may disagree but I don't think that's trolling.


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    #142
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    Humour is of course subjective....the person I quoted did thank it.



    I would have said it's more a buzzword for highlighting yet another silly incident involving guns in America, you may disagree but I don't think that's trolling.

    I may start posting "God Bless Ireland" in every Irish related thread. Do you think that might get annoying, silly and trollish?


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    #143
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    MadsL wrote: »
    I may start posting "God Bless Ireland" in every Irish related thread. Do you think that might get annoying, silly and trollish?
    It wouldn't exactly make sense, seeing as we're an increasingly secular country. And it would have to be related to a specific topic, no?


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    #144
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    It wouldn't exactly make sense, seeing as we're an increasingly secular country. And it would have to be related to a specific topic, no?

    How does a kneejerk "'Murica" post in every damn US thread make sense?


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    #145
    Packrat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭Packrat


    MadsL wrote: »
    ...aaaand no action yet on the two I reported*. I really don't expect mods to comb AH for this behaviour but since there seems to be agreement that it is trollish then I would have though the occasional yellow card would get the message across.

    * Not that I expect mods to be online on NYE ;)

    The mods here are too busy to be bothering with responding to posts reported by someone who lives 3500 miles away.....;)

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



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    #146
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Packrat wrote: »
    The mods here are too busy to be bothering with responding to posts reported by someone who lives 3500 miles away.....;)

    Posters in Australia are fecked then...


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    #147
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,234 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Murica type posts are daft. I'd say it's cyclical. I've seen them on news sites and I'd put them in the same category as 'there's Obama on the golf course again, there's Israel _____' (or whatever variation suits). It'll probably die down after a while and new cheap shot meme will come along.

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



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    #148
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,865 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    It wouldn't exactly make sense, seeing as we're an increasingly secular country.
    Conversely, sputtering 'MURICA to every US topic doesn't make sense, seeing as the country is very, very diverse, containing a hundred or more ethnic and cultural background and a few hundred religions, differing socio-economic circumstances, and so on.


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    #149
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Sorry I only read half this thread but one thing I didn't notice mentioned is the practice of profiling for the purposes of put down's/strawman arguments in a thread (i.e. going outside a thread to find someones location).

    Generally as a mod I'd try to discourage folk from quoting what someone said in a different forum/thread (it usually ends in off topic tit-for-tat). I would say that profiling to put down a poster's comment is a sign of a weak defence... and anyone who does so should be called on it by the 'injured party'.

    It is attacking the poster and not the point made. I would act on it with a gentle reminder if it was reported.

    Its in the same vein as referring to other forums within a thread.


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    #150
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,859 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Overheal wrote: »
    Conversely, sputtering 'MURICA to every US topic doesn't make sense, seeing as the country is very, very diverse, containing a hundred or more ethnic and cultural background and a few hundred religions, differing socio-economic circumstances, and so on.

    Also, it should be treated the same as the other memes outlined in the charter:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63136207&postcount=10 and

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78718655&postcount=28

    If the AH mods are going to crack down on funny stuff like "yore ma" then it's ridiculous to allow this "Murica stuff continue.


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    #151
    challengemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 16,931 ✭✭✭✭challengemaster


    Overheal wrote: »
    Conversely, sputtering 'MURICA to every US topic doesn't make sense, seeing as the country is very, very diverse, containing a hundred or more ethnic and cultural background and a few hundred religions, differing socio-economic circumstances, and so on.

    Which is why there's a forum dealing with everything USA as a whole (Region -> Abroad -> United States). I'd suggest that's where you'll find meaningful discussion of the diverse ethnic and cultural background of the States.

    The majority of US related topics that appear in AH are generally controversial topics anyway, and mostly the headlines relating to stupidity/racism/violence/guns.
    The term "murica" is the way how many people with extremely thick, American accents, pronounce "America". The term is used to denote extreme, extreme nationalism and patriotism, but not necessarily facism.

    IMO posting the likes of 'MURICA and "Why can't I hold all of my freedoms" aren't trolling or flaming for the most part - merely highlighting the irony of for example toddlers shooting people because a country is obsessed with a right to bear arms. The posting of 'Murica in threads often due to the fact that this extreme patriotism often results in consequences that the rest of the world can only laugh as being brought upon themselves makes sense - it's humorous. Something understandably Americans or American residents may miss the point on.


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