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Porn, Strip Clubs And The Like

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  • 17-05-2005 11:58am
    #1
    tigerlily
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭


    Hey all,

    Im female and i just noticed the amount of crap going on with regards to the above, u read the emails from women on the web who are sick and tired of strip clubs, porn and just the lad culture that seems to be everywhere..ive done a bit if research and it seems to be destroying relationships, marriage and just trust and intimacy in general, whats the way forward, just beat it or join it?

    I find majority of it distasteful and just geared to make women look like objects. So whats all your views guys n gals? i know it has affected lots of peoples relationships in negatative ways and alot consider it to be mental or emotional cheating.. i know boys will be boys, but what ever happened being happy and sexually satisfied with the one person...? :D


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    #2
    Keyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    tigerlily wrote:
    Hey all,

    Im female and i just noticed the amount of crap going on with regards to the above, u read the emails from women on the web who are sick and tired of strip clubs, porn and just the lad culture that seems to be everywhere..ive done a bit if research and it seems to be destroying relationships, marriage and just trust and intimacy in general, whats the way forward, just beat it or join it?

    I find majority of it distasteful and just geared to make women look like objects. So whats all your views guys n gals? i know it has affected lots of peoples relationships in negatative ways and alot consider it to be mental or emotional cheating.. i know boys will be boys, but what ever happened being happy and sexually satisfied with the one person...? :D

    Evolution baby....
    Nothing wrong with the majority of porn, the ladies are the stars and they get paid a lot more than the men. If they didn't want to be doing it then I'm sure they could find something else.
    Strips clubs are different, every now and then is alright, but if its a regular thing then I would agree with girls who get pissed off with it...


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    #3
    The Bollox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,372 ✭✭✭The Bollox


    pfft, men :rolleyes:


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    #4
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    tigerlily
    could you kindly read the charter with regards to posting threads like this in PI
    thanks
    B


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    #5
    tigerlily
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭tigerlily


    Yeah but is it evolution? i dont think so. in fairness im expecting alot of men to stick up and defend this, so im prepared to be bashed! But how and ever, i do believe that there has to be a better way then all the sleaze and sh**


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    #6
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    I always find it funny that feminist will fight for a woman's choice to choose, stating that it's her body and her rights, but then chastise women for getting their tits out on stage, saying their being exploited. It their choice and it your choice if you want to watch it.


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    #7
    Keyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    tigerlily wrote:
    Yeah but is it evolution? i dont think so. in fairness im expecting alot of men to stick up and defend this, so im prepared to be bashed! But how and ever, i do believe that there has to be a better way then all the sleaze and sh**

    A better way?
    It boils down to what you have a problem with and what you don't have a problem with. The simple fact is most blokes like porn, they like looking at sexy ladies getting it on, and there is nothing wrong with this.
    I think the problem women have with porn is that it makes them feel insecure or inadequate, correct me if im wrong.


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    #8
    Kell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭Kell


    The porn industry has been around since pre christian times. Cave men paintings depict sexual intercourse. I am sure if they had a 35mm SLR back in 600bc there would be some nice black and whites on the cave walls instead of crude drawings.

    In the context of people being bought and sold as slaves and also child porn, it is just sick. As for people who willingly go into the industry without a gun to their head and that the proceeds dont pay for gun/child/drug trafficking, then what exactly is the problem with it given that prostition is the oldest industry on the planet.
    Keyzer wrote:
    makes the feel insecure

    Well said.

    K-


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    #9
    landser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 648 ✭✭✭landser


    first of all, who are you really??

    anyway, porn is ok in limited amounts... good for the old stress relief etc. naturally if my woman offers me a shag and i say, naw thanks, i'm off to the bog with big jugs monthly, some moisturiser and a pack of kleenex velvet (much kinder to the skin) then it probaly is a problem.

    strip joints are sleazy and sad however. loads of sad men thinking their some kinda suggardaddies. further, i could never see the point of them. it's like being given a stack of porn and then having your hands tied behind your back... the whole experience is just frustratuing

    in general terms, i've no moral issues regarding either, and, for the most part and in my experience, the only people who do are jealous women.


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    #10
    Imposter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭Imposter


    I don't think there's anything wrong with porn as both sexes can use it for their enjoyment. As for strip clubs and brothels I don't see a huge problem with these provided a girlfriend/wife knows their bf/hubby is going there and is ok with it. Also can't see a problem with single people going there.

    These 'facilities' largely only exist because females more or less decide whether someone gets some or not. If a lad is single and not getting any regularly there's a fair chance that it's not a voluntary decision on his behalf. In saying that there are others who will cheat on partners by going to these places. These I don't really aggree with but I don't think the wives/gf's are entirely the victims or as blameless as they like to make out in this situation. After all they chose their partner in the first place and perhaps they should consider their lack of judgement, with regard to his character when he 'betrays' her!

    As for the way it treats women that's a different issue but ideally if no woman was forced into it then I don't have a problem with that side of it either.


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    #11
    tigerlily
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭tigerlily


    no i just think there is a problem with the world being so non-committal - in that people can do what they like when they like, but is that a good thing, u cant argue the facts that it is a controversial subject and not everyone shares a simple ideology on it check this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=254696
    you will see the views are quite strong- and p.s. im not a feminist- but yeah i do believe in a woman having a bit of respect for herself- sorry. As you said Keyser, they could be doing something else if they so choose. Sorry if i come accross as feminist, but i work hard for my money and career without gettig my c**t out for every tom dick and harry to see??...


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    #12
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    tigerlily wrote:
    no i just think there is a problem with the world being so non-committal - in that people can do what they like when they like, but is that a good thing, u cant argue the facts that it is a controversial subject and not everyone shares a simple ideology on it check this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=254696
    you will see the views are quite strong- and p.s. im not a feminist- but yeah i do believe in a woman having a bit of respect for herself- sorry. As you said Keyser, they could be doing something else if they so choose. Sorry if i come accross as feminist, but i work hard for my money and career without gettig my c**t out for every tom dick and harry to see??...

    Typical feminist view point. Looking down on other women who don't share your view point. What makes you think they don't have respect for themselves, what makes you think they don't enjoy their work, and work hard at it? Have you ever known a stripper?


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    #13
    fade2black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭fade2black


    When bitches are in heat...(and I mean canine here) if they were as advanced as humans I'd imagine they'd open up some kind of peep kennells to prey on gullible dogs...

    Men were designed to spread their seed...reproduce...this is why we are in the world. Women are designed to entice men, send off signals etc...Throughout time with the interferance of money, the inevitable happened.

    I'm sorry if this sounds in anyway sexist or anything but it's fact.


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    #14
    Keyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    tigerlily wrote:
    no i just think there is a problem with the world being so non-committal - in that people can do what they like when they like, but is that a good thing, u cant argue the facts that it is a controversial subject and not everyone shares a simple ideology on it check this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=254696
    you will see the views are quite strong- and p.s. im not a feminist- but yeah i do believe in a woman having a bit of respect for herself- sorry. As you said Keyser, they could be doing something else if they so choose. Sorry if i come accross as feminist, but i work hard for my money and career without gettig my c**t out for every tom dick and harry to see??...

    But thats you, every one is different.
    For a woman who is an exhibisionist and has a high sex drive, as a lot of the female porn stars are, the porn industry is perfect for her. She gets to do what she loves doing and gets paid handsomely.
    Isn't this the kind of job satisfaction that we all aspire to have? a job we love and get paid well for....
    Who are you to pass judgement on these woman?

    Anyway, these ladies aren't stupid, they know exactly what they are doing.
    In my opinion theres nothing wrong with porn as long as it doesn't become an obsession.


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    #15
    tigerlily
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭tigerlily


    Sorry but cant agree with you there, there has been times in my life where ive needed money badly, to put myself through college and other things, but i didnt go and take my clothes off and tease men to earn some money, sorry i cant agree but theres no need...you can do plenty of other things before u do that. mostly its greed. So does a man who doesnt like male strippers and porn , what is he ?? the feminist equivalent, no thats bull****, hes just a man with an opinion, just as i am a person with an opinion


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    #16
    Kell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭Kell


    tigerlily wrote:
    no i just think there is a problem with the world being so non-committal - in that people can do what they like when they like, but is that a good thing

    The fact that people can do what they like within the law is great. You thankfully live in a liberal society whether you choose to agree or not. As someone above pointed out, if the woman decided to give it out to her man as often as he would like, then men might* not visit brothels, look at porn etc. Goes back to my thinking on relationships. Somewhere out there lies the perfect partner for everyone its just a case of being really fúckin choosey and having patience. Thats another topic though.
    tigerlily wrote:
    but i work hard for my money and career without gettig my c**t out for every tom dick and harry to see??...

    So why should you worry about someone else who does. If you are happy with yourself, what someone else gets up to shouldnt worry you so long as it is within the remit of the law. You're not a curtain twitcher are you?
    tigerlily wrote:
    theres no need

    Theres no need for some fridges to have a built in web cam on the door so you can watch your kids in playskool over the tinterweb, but there is a thing called choice. With the exceptions that I pointed out earlier, most of these girls have choise. Are you trying to deny them that right?

    K-

    *Some guys of course get as much as they want from their willing partner and still look for more. Glitches in the matrix that I have yet to remove from the equation


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    #17
    tigerlily
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭tigerlily


    Kell wrote:
    The fact that people can do what they like within the law is great. You thankfully live in a liberal society whether you choose to agree or not. As someone above pointed out, if the woman decided to give it out to her man as often as he would like, then men might* not visit brothels, look at porn etc. Goes back to my thinking on relationships. Somewhere out there lies the perfect partner for everyone its just a case of being really fúckin choosey and having patience. Thats another topic though.



    So why should you worry about someone else who does. If you are happy with yourself, what someone else gets up to shouldnt worry you so long as it is within the remit of the law. You're not a curtain twitcher are you?

    K-

    *Some guys of course get as much as they want from their willing partner and still look for more. Glitches in the matrix that I have yet to remove from the equation
    As someone above pointed out, if the woman decided to give it out to her man as often as he would like, then men might* not visit brothels, look at porn etc

    That is TOTAL crap. In fairness its typical attiude of society - it might be a womans fault that a man does that cos she doesnt give to him often, and shes viewed as a feminist cos she doesnt wana take her clothes off. Total bull****


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    #18
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    tigerlily wrote:
    Sorry but cant agree with you there, there has been times in my life where ive needed money badly, to put myself through college and other things, but i didnt go and take my clothes off and tease men to earn some money, sorry i cant agree but theres no need...you can do plenty of other things before u do that. mostly its greed. So does a man who doesnt like male strippers and porn , what is he ?? the feminist equivalent, no thats bull****, hes just a man with an opinion, just as i am a person with an opinion

    Actually it's the attitude that's these women are greedy, desperate, taken the easy option and less then you, that rings all the typical feminist dogma bells.


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    #19
    Keyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    tigerlily wrote:
    Sorry but cant agree with you there, there has been times in my life where ive needed money badly, to put myself through college and other things, but i didnt go and take my clothes off and tease men to earn some money, sorry i cant agree but theres no need...you can do plenty of other things before u do that. mostly its greed. So does a man who doesnt like male strippers and porn , what is he ?? the feminist equivalent, no thats bull****, hes just a man with an opinion, just as i am a person with an opinion

    Listen, im not getting into an argument with you.
    I don't see anything wrong with the porn industry (aside the sick **** etc. whic is disgusting). They know what they are getting involved in and get paid well for it. In the legit companies, like vivid entertainment, its the women who are in power, women who make the movies and run the company.
    Sex sells and that the bottom line (cos Keyzer said so), these women are merely satisfying a demand and making a lot of money in the process...


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    #20
    edmund_f
    Registered Users Posts: 579 ✭✭✭edmund_f


    great.. so all these things are 'bad', from your viewpoint i.e. strip clubs, porn etc.

    2 points, as suggested earlier, 90% of these people (both male and female) are in it by choice so who are you to decide that their choice is wrong?. Also assuming the world where you are in charge what would you put in place of these things?. All the lads going out each evening at getting drunk?

    i think the problem here is that you cannot generalise with reference to anything this intimate, what floats someone elses boat (or finds their lost remote) my be totally distasteful to you, just think of Troy McClure. To them it is the most natural thing in the world. (within limits)

    I very much doubt any man in history has been 100% happy 100% of the time with just one woman, the fact that porn and strip clubs exist seem to bear out some truth to that.


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    #21
    tigerlily
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭tigerlily


    Louiville im not a feminist- but you obviously feel threatened by a woman who has an opinion and her own mind.

    The facts stand for themselves, alot of women in relationships are very unhappy as this industry is affecting their love life and their views on men in general


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    #22
    Kell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭Kell


    tigerlily wrote:

    That is TOTAL crap. In fairness its typical attiude of society -

    You didnt read the asterixed disclaimer. Nor did you pay attention to my comment that there is a sexual mental and spiritual partner for everyone out there if they are patient enough.

    What about a woman then who wants to get her jollies with someone else while the hubby is away. Statistically more likely to happen when she is approaching ovulation. Men dont really go through periods of heat yet by your approach we are guilty of all the evils of infidelity.

    K-


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    #23
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    tigerlily wrote:
    check this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=254696
    you will see the views are quite strong
    My reading of that thread was that the issue was not so much that the chap in question went to strip joints, but he was almost certainly paying for sex and cheating on his girlfriend.
    im not a feminist- but yeah i do believe in a woman having a bit of respect for herself- sorry.
    That’s your opinion of what respect for oneself is - it is your own morality and you’re welcome to live by it. However, you cannot expect other people to live by your set of values.
    Sorry if i come accross as feminist, but i work hard for my money and career without gettig my c**t out for every tom dick and harry to see??...
    I would have said you come across as either a prude or a snob.


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    #24
    Keyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    The Corinthian wrote:
    That’s your opinion of what respect for oneself is - it is your own morality and you’re welcome to live by it. However, you cannot expect other people to live by your set of values.

    Well said... You live by your own rules and morals, but don't expect other people to. You have no right to pass judgement over what level of respect another woman has for herself...


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    #25
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    tigerlily wrote:
    Louiville im not a feminist- but you obviously feel threatened by a woman who has an opinion and her own mind.

    I respect women that know their own mind and body. You on the other hand don't. You're the only one here having a dig at women.


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    #26
    Kell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭Kell


    Tigerlily- hows about you just accept that just as about 98%* of men stand up when taking a píss 90% of men like porn?

    If women actually set about understanding men (save for the caveats already posted) as opposed to bending men to their way of thinking, maybe, just maybe we wouldnt have these situations.

    *There are some countries where mothers encourage their young sons to sit when píssing. I kid you not. An example of bending blokes to be as women want them to be as opposed to being what they are.

    Another imbalance in the Matrix that I am working on.

    K-


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    #27
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,019 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    Getting back to the OP and the original issue...basically you seem to be suggesting that the existence of strip clubs and porn is a "threat" to relationships and stability.

    Do you also consider the notion of gay marraige to be a "threat" to so-called "normal" marriage, by any chance? Because the notion carries about as much weight.

    As has been variously pointed out, these things are all about choice. If someone wants to work in porn, it is not your place to tell them whether they are allowed to or not, nor is it your right to start passing blanket judgements on them claiming they have no respect for themselves. In any democratic nation you are required to tolerate dissenting opinion, regardless of whether you like having to do so.

    I think that before people start calling porn and strip clubs a threat to relationships they should examine the foundation their own relationships are built on. People don't cheat or stray because there was something on offer, they do it because there was something on offer and they weren't happy with what the already had.

    I also think that if you want to start talking about how you've "done some research" you should provide links to reliable sources.


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    #28
    edmund_f
    Registered Users Posts: 579 ✭✭✭edmund_f


    i think what would be much better would be to outright ban all these, porn strip clubs etc. Then perhaps in a few years time we can do the same to mini skirts, then perhaps ballroom dancing. Realise that porn and strips clubs may make some feel uncomfortable, but it is always going to be about in some form, depending on your perception.


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    #29
    Keyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    All quiet on the western front it seems....


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    #30
    simu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,730 ✭✭✭✭simu


    You don't seem to have much faith in relationships, tigerlilly. It seems you think that the only way a relationship can work is if there are no competing sources of sexual release. I disagree.

    Also, you're painting a pretty stereotypical picture of women as passive, fragile victims of men's sexual desires - tis considerably less black and white in reality.

    Please link to your "research".


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    #31
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I love these threads because you always get women who just know what all strip clubs are like without being in any.

    I've been single all my life. Never been in a serious relationship. I live a healthy single life. And I go to Lap-dancing/strip clubs. I've been to alot of them across Europe . So please believe me when I say your opinions are archaic beyond belief. You're the result of female advertising against an industry they find offensive without knowing a thing about it.

    Try going to a lap-dancing club, and after speaking to a few of them you'll learn that they're doing very well both in money and lifestyle. They're not forced to do anything. In fact, they're more in control over what happens in the club, than in most other aspects of their lives. They get paid to take off their clothes. In Strip clubs its just that. In lap-dancing clubs, they grind or dance on the customer. Customers hands behind back, and the booth/room will have a camera for security.

    There's a gentlemans club in London called the "Windmill". Women working there earn a fortune, and are treated with serious respect. (Get a mortgage if you do go though. U can spend a grand easily)

    Porn. bores me to tears. After working on the Internet for over a decade I've seen most of whats up there, and it just doesn't do it for me. BUT. I think its perfectly natural, and more people would be happier if they partook every once in a while. People would be alot more relaxed about themselves anyway.
    Sorry but cant agree with you there, there has been times in my life where ive needed money badly, to put myself through college and other things, but i didnt go and take my clothes off and tease men to earn some money, sorry i cant agree but theres no need...you can do plenty of other things before u do that. mostly its greed.

    me neither. but then nobody would hire me to take off my clothes. And perhaps these women would rather not take the steps you have in your life. Its possible they see some of the risks/sacrifices you've made as being beyond their desires.

    You see, taking your clothes off isn't such a big deal. Go to Spain, and its perfectly natural. Hell, you'll have your girlfriend going to the lapdance with you. Same with many of the other hot countries. Colder climate people tend to be more prude-ish. :rolleyes:


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