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Boxer win Irish DTT, but pull out.

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    #302
    scath
    Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    Lol... I must revise further my suggestion that Cula4 return back to TG4 and HOTV instead timeshares with the new 5th channel I suggest as sensible for both HOTV and post ASO that HOTV get's at least 2 channels for itself. In retrospect I would be relegating Cula4 for HOTV which would not be right. Cula4 is important and should not be diluted in any way. Timeshare with the 5th channel seems sensible for HOTV


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    #303
    SPDUB
    Registered Users Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭SPDUB


    scath wrote: »
    I'm against the idea of +1 channels as waste of spectrum when online can offer replay for 7 days etc of programming. Options are Sky Active playback methods but no point dedicating a whole channel to +1.

    You seem to be forgetting the fact that some people don't have access to online whether it's their own reasons or they can't get access for other reasons


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    #304
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    SPDUB wrote: »
    You seem to be forgetting the fact that some people don't have access to online whether it's their own reasons or they can't get access for other reasons

    So anyway I am watching a TV show and I forget that there is another show I that I wanted to see only problem is I didn't remember that it was on until the morning. Pity I missed the repeat on RTE ONE +1. See what a waste of specturm.

    either a channel goes with a +1day later so that I can catch up after remembering or being told of a good show the previous night. or they go with an extra channel that repeats the show later on in the week. Far better then a +1 channel IMO. And it gives you even more choice.


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    #305
    SPDUB
    Registered Users Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭SPDUB


    Elmo wrote: »
    So anyway I am watching a TV show and I forget that there is another show I that I wanted to see only problem is I didn't remember that it was on until the morning. Pity I missed the repeat on RTE ONE +1. See what a waste of specturm.

    either a channel goes with a +1day later so that I can catch up after remembering or being told of a good show the previous night. or they go with an extra channel that repeats the show later on in the week. Far better then a +1 channel IMO. And it gives you even more choice.

    First point online is not a reason to have no +1 channel which was the point I was replying to.

    And your suggestion of +1 day or later is also a waste of spectrum if people want to suggest that just to a lesser degree than +1 hour after all haven't people got VCR's ,PVRs etc .


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    #306
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    SPDUB wrote: »
    First point online is not a reason to have no +1 channel which was the point I was replying to.

    And your suggestion of +1 day or later is also a waste of spectrum if people want to suggest that just to a lesser degree than +1 hour after all haven't people got VCR's ,PVRs etc .

    1. Point taken.

    2. I am only saying a +1day is a tiny bit better only for the same reason that you suggest that people don't have VCR, PVRs etc. i.e. even if you have a PVR you may forget to record and you may not have Internet access. So one day later provides you with a chance to catch up.

    However I would rather see an extra channel with a different schedule repeating shows. E.g. having the news on RTE ONE +1day at 6:1 would be twice as pointless as 6:1 an hour later. :rolleyes:


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    #307
    scath
    Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    Broadcasting Bill 2008 amendments went through today, Simon Conveney and Liz McManus appeared to prefer the BAI to become part of ComReg as more cost effective, given the current economic situation, like what they have in the UK with Ofcom, a bigger regulator doing both. Sounds a moot point given convergence apparently which they mentioned also. But Minister Ryan felt that with telecoms being a much financially bigger industry here that broadcasting would be better catered for by a separate broadcast regulator than with a unified regulator where broadcasting might not be as well catered for owing to their lesser importance economically in a unified structure. No doubt they'll go further down during the day on the other amendments with regards to the 2 new broadcasters foreseen.

    My own opinion is that while the 2 new broadcasters HOTV and Irish Film Channel as separate channels does have singularity of focus going for being separate, given the current economic climate, I think that the Irish Film Channel should come under a reconstituted TG4 whereby it becomes an integrated business division of TI4. (Television Ireland 4) with Television Arts 4 (TA4) becoming another new integrated business division and an an Education channel (Television Eolas 4) (TE4) as a further integrated business division.

    What I'm suggesting is the expansion of the TG4 studios, use of the expertise in TG4 and making this 2nd public service broadcaster stonger in terms of expertise and infrastructure already existing. You avoid the costs of setting up 2 new broadcasters.

    Houses of the Oireachtas TV could become an integrated business division of RTÉ, funded by the Oireachtas ie RTÉ Oireachtas. It would be just cheaper & quicker to get the RTÉ Oireachtas channel up and running rather than it created as a new broadcaster and the costs associated with that. To be honest I'm not so pushed on this one, but I think that it should be done as it was with TG4 whereby for now it be part of RTÉ to be later separated when money allows if the Minister wished to so direct it be separated and established following analysis of how it worked within RTÉ versus how it might work separate of it.

    Advertising is to be allowed under some restrictions on the Irish Film Channel, with films not to be interrupted by advertising which is very welcome, the Referendum Commission will get preferential rates and Irish language catered for. The reason for ads is for resource purposes, funding. I don't love ads at all, but purely to assist it to generate revenue it can then use assist the Irish Film Board in funding costs of running the Irish Film Channel and surplus revenues exist (doubt so) then to be used in Irish Film grants alongside its subvention.

    NHS use of Digital TV platforms in the UK for an information service particularly suited to disabled viewers was also mentioned by Simon Conveney and the public benefit of a HSE TV service was also put forward by him which I agree with. There was discussion of disability groups and that they should be included in BAI appointments, obligations on broadcasters etc..

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/bills28/bills/2008/2908/document1.htm

    http://asx.heanet.ie/oireachtas/dail_audioonly.asx- this one is for live Dáil so you won't hear the debate on the Broadcasting Bill in the afternoon as that debate is adjourned and the Health Bill is being discussed.

    New link at rtenl.com/dtt.htm. see: http://www.rtenl.com/downloads/ReceivingDTT.pdf I think its a very good guide on aerial installation. Boxer is mentioned so one could maybe assume that Boxer has returned contracts now since?


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    #308
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,507 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    scath wrote: »
    New link at rtenl.com/dtt.htm. see: http://www.rtenl.com/downloads/ReceivingDTT.pdf I think its a very good guide on aerial installation. Boxer is mentioned so one could maybe assume that Boxer has returned contracts now since?

    I see RTE are using the CAI Benchmarked Aerial standard but by a different name

    RTE||CAI||
    Category 1||Standard 1||Should provide adequate DTT reception even for homes on the fringes of coverage areas
    Category 2||Standard 2||Intermediate standard, suitable for use within the coverage
    Category 3||Standard 3||Minimum standard required for good coverage conditions
    Category 4||Standard 4||Recommended where better wideband performance is required


    and Table 2 - Antenna Recommended Minimum Gain Figures on page 7 are taken from the CAI Guidelines for Benchmarked Aerials. They should have gone the whole hog and recommended an CAI Benchmarked aerial.

    Regarding their recommendation for cable
    The antenna should be connected to the STB using good quality cable, such as CT100, conforming to the standard EN 50117-1 1997.

    RTE using old info from the CAI Cable Type 100 CAI Benchmark Specification.
    The standard is now BS EN 50117-1:2002, CT100 cable according to Tony here on the boards "CT100 is a generic term as its no longer made" also it is not a benchmarked cable type.
    CT100 was manufactured by Raydex until 2005.

    A brief history of CT100:
    Volex/Raydex CT (CT=Copper tape) 100 (100=1.00mm centre core) was around long before satellite. Volex/Raydex no longer exists as a cable manufacturer and so the brand name CT100 also no longer exists, but people still refer to 1.00 mm copper tape and braid cable as CT100, I suppose like people calling their vacuum cleaner a Hoover when that is just the brand name.
    Volex/Raydex launched, among other products CT100 and was universally recognised as the byword for quality TV coaxial. In 1991 Raydex acquired Fothergill Cables leaders in the production of high performance specialist cables for the Industrial, Aerospace and Defence markets. Volex Grp-Raydex Specialist were bought by CDT (Cable Design Technologies Corp) in 1995 and CDT were subsequently merged with Belden during 2004 to form the largest global electronic cable manufacturer. The Raydex and CT100 brands disappeared following the merger.


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    #309
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    scath wrote: »
    My own opinion is that while the 2 new broadcasters HOTV and Irish Film Channel as separate channels does have singularity of focus going for being separate, given the current economic climate, I think that the Irish Film Channel should come under a reconstituted TG4 whereby it becomes an integrated business division of TI4. (Television Ireland 4) with Television Arts 4 (TA4) becoming another new integrated business division and an an Education channel (Television Eolas 4) (TE4) as a further integrated business division.

    TG4 or TnaG. TI4 if call this would be TE4, but no real reason to waste money re-branding a good brand TG4. Arts - Ealaín could be TE4 and Education - oideachas TO4. But I am sure we could spend years coming up with suitable names. I have been saying this on boards for years.

    TG4 - FISE (Film Ireland Scannan Eireann)4 - EOLAS4 (Promoted and supported by individual departments not just DCENR). FISE - Vision. :)

    EOLAS4 should contain details from the HSE, The Arts Council and other groups I don't see the point in a different channel.

    Anyway it is all a pipe dream. There will be at most 6 FTA channels.


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    #310
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,417 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    would be great if TV3 could get 3e on the PSB mux and might have a chance in these economic times to save RTE putting more channels on while giving DTT that extra something over analog


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    #311
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Since TV3 won't even pay to go on all the existing transmitters (which ought to be breach of licence), it's unlikely they will pay for TV3e to go on PSB. Also then they could not charge and it's likely some of the content is licenced to them on basis it's encrypted pay TV. They'd have been (vainly?) hoping Boxer would pay them.


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    #312
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    TheDriver wrote: »
    would be great if TV3 could get 3e on the PSB mux and might have a chance in these economic times to save RTE putting more channels on while giving DTT that extra something over analog

    I would rather see city channel on PBS then 3e, give a new licence to an new entrant.

    3e on the PBS mux would have to improve vastly to even get that go ahead. Fair enough if we where talking about giving them one licence out of 10 but there isn't any space of this cheep channel. If they plan to give it to 3e I don't see why another company couldn't get a channel.


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    #313
    tretle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭tretle


    City channel? If it did it would fail miserably, whats the problem with 3e. It offers entertainment and who cares if its not irish programming. The only decent irish programming that ever gets created by rte are factual shows. Thats why we have this whole problem in the first place, factual shows arent great exports. I mean what ficional show do we have? Fair City, that thing should be cancelled and everyone fired, its shoddy writing and acting are risiculous. And the amount they get paid is even more. 3e is an entertainment channel.if there were more fictional entertainment irish shows, or any good ones then I am sure it would be aired on 3e, unfortunately there arent.


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    #314
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    tretle wrote: »
    City channel? If it did it would fail miserably, whats the problem with 3e. It offers entertainment and who cares if its not irish programming. The only decent irish programming that ever gets created by rte are factual shows. Thats why we have this whole problem in the first place, factual shows arent great exports. I mean what ficional show do we have? Fair City, that thing should be cancelled and everyone fired, its shoddy writing and acting are risiculous. And the amount they get paid is even more. 3e is an entertainment channel.if there were more fictional entertainment irish shows, or any good ones then I am sure it would be aired on 3e, unfortunately there arent.


    3e is the same old same old, the only thing worth watching is In Treatment. (I discluded their numerous repeats).

    Who to say that 3e couldn't produce a good show outside of factual why does it always have to be left to RTÉ?

    RTÉ do sell their shows to some cable channels, only the other week I saw Househunters in the Sun on Discovery Travel or something (I quickly changed channel :) ).

    3e would have to produce a fictious Irish entertainment show. RTÉ have produced plenty of good drama over the last number of years (bar Fair City). It would be nice to see TV3 produce an entertainment show. They just don't have the balls.

    To suggest that their are no entertaining fictional TV shows coming from Ireland is rubbish espically when they are far and few inbetween. You are giving people who have never produced a fiction show far too much credit than they deserve.

    Anyone could set up a 3e channel and do well if they got on the PSB mux. However the audience would never be huge.

    In relation to City Channel if they did appear the could expand their programming and make it better then in currently is. However I would look for an overhaul of City Channel.

    E4 is entertaining why not let them rebroadcast that on PBS Mux?


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    #315
    scath
    Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    What I meant was TG4 would become an integrated business division of TI4. TI4 would be the holding group like RTÉ. TG4 would keep its brand, but use would be made of the brand to stengthen it so you had similar logos like TA4 (Television Arts) Arts & Community programming, made up of HSE and government info programmes. Telífis Gaeilge 4 (TG4), Television Eolas4 (TE4) (Higher Education Government Info).

    TI4= TG4, TA4, TE4. 3 business divisions using common equipment, expertise but funding from its own sector with its own boards and audience councils.
    Looks like the Film Channel is going ahead. But why not call it an arts channel instead of a Film Channel so it can be wider channel.
    Elmo wrote: »
    TG4 or TnaG. TI4 if call this would be TE4, but no real reason to waste money re-branding a good brand TG4. Arts - Ealaín could be TE4 and Education - oideachas TO4. But I am sure we could spend years coming up with suitable names. I have been saying this on boards for years.

    TG4 - FISE (Film Ireland Scannan Eireann)4 - EOLAS4 (Promoted and supported by individual departments not just DCENR). FISE - Vision. :)

    EOLAS4 should contain details from the HSE, The Arts Council and other groups I don't see the point in a different channel.

    Anyway it is all a pipe dream. There will be at most 6 FTA channels.


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    #316
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    scath wrote: »
    What I meant was TG4 would become an integrated business division of TI4. TI4 would be the holding group like RTÉ. TG4 would keep its brand, but use would be made of the brand to stengthen it so you had similar logos like TA4 (Television Arts) Arts & Community programming, made up of HSE and government info programmes. Telífis Gaeilge 4 (TG4), Television Eolas4 (TE4) (Higher Education Government Info).

    TI4= TG4, TA4, TE4. 3 business divisions using common equipment, expertise but funding from its own sector with its own boards and audience councils.
    Looks like the Film Channel is going ahead. But why not call it an arts channel instead of a Film Channel so it can be wider channel.

    My issue with Television Ireland 4 is that it angalcise a company that was set up to promote the Irish lanuage, TG4 does that even a tiny bit when people refer to it as TG Four :mad:

    The company covering TG4, TE4 and TO4 or whatever you want to call them could simple be called TnaG which is the company that looks after TG4.


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    #317
    JanusGeminius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭JanusGeminius


    Elmo wrote: »
    My issue with Television Ireland 4 is that it angalcise a company that was set up to promote the Irish lanuage, TG4 does that even a tiny bit when people refer to it as TG Four :mad:

    The company covering TG4, TE4 and TO4 or whatever you want to call them could simple be called TnaG which is the company that looks after TG4.

    It's not their fault people are more used to saying Four when refering to 4. The only way to solve that problem is to ban the use of English in Ireland. Any takers?


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    #318
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    JanusGeminius wrote: »
    It's not their fault people are more used to saying Four when refering to 4. The only way to solve that problem is to ban the use of English in Ireland. Any takers?

    But 4 is channel (four) 4 and ceathair is tg (ceathair) 4 we could end up confusing people we wouldn't want to do that, why do you thing Channel 6 called themselves Channel 6 rather then Channel 5 (which is now just five) to confusing :)

    I always refer to it as TG Ceathair that the name of the station, just like when it was call TnaG we didn't go around calling it ToftheG (actually quite a good name :D ) or T NAG, did we?

    Anyway I am just saying it is silly to call the company TI4 when they could just call it TnaG.

    Totally OTT I did set up a new forum for all this silly talk :)http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055529538 so that we would n't trail of the topic. Reply to this there thanks.

    Anyway no real news about Boxer so far this year is there?


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    #319
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Even I know it's TG ceathair. And I didn't have Irish at school. Of course I only call the UK men in Uniform Police and the locals Garda.

    They seem to have Police in Dublin, so it must be Western Britain. It that where these rare Irish that call it TG Four live?


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    #320
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    watty wrote: »
    Even I know it's TG ceathair. And I didn't have Irish at school. Of course I only call the UK men in Uniform Police and the locals Garda.

    They seem to have Police in Dublin, so it must be Western Britain. It that where these rare Irish that call it TG Four live?

    I have heard other from outside the pale call it TGFour, oddly they're the same people who insist on calling TV5, TVCinq and France24, France vingt-quatre. :confused:


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    #321
    mjsmyth
    Registered Users Posts: 1,108 ✭✭✭mjsmyth


    Without getting in to a big debate about it, i have never heard it called TG Four... I never even thought anyone would use it as it is never referred to as such on TV.

    As for "West Britains", they are a law on to themselves :)

    mj


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    #322
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Elmo wrote: »
    I have heard other from outside the pale call it TGFour, oddly they're the same people who insist on calling TV5, TVCinq and France24, France vingt-quatre. :confused:

    Maybe they are not from Ireland. French people might assume we use english.

    Foreign people here a short time but long enough to think the only Irish is on Road signs might say TG four.


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    #323
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    watty wrote: »
    Maybe they are not from Ireland. French people might assume we use english.

    Foreign people here a short time but long enough to think the only Irish is on Road signs might say TG four.

    True enough I only speak to french tourist who come to watch TG4, remember home with TV5. :D


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    #324
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,539 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    For what its worth, everyone I know calls it TG4. But I live in Dublin :)

    Anyway, back on topic please people...


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    #325
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    icdg wrote: »
    For what its worth, everyone I know calls it TG4. But I live in Dublin :)

    Anyway, back on topic please people...

    But do they call it TVcinq or TGceathair?

    Any news on Boxer :)<<<tries to get it back on track :D


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    #326
    JanusGeminius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭JanusGeminius


    icdg wrote: »
    For what its worth, everyone I know calls it TG4. But I live in Dublin :)

    Anyway, back on topic please people...

    There isn't a problem with that though as it's rendered in Arabic numbering so language doesn't apply. It's only the Language Nazis that have a problem with it.
    Elmo wrote: »
    But do they call it TVcinq or TGceathair?

    Any news on Boxer :)<<<tries to get it back on track :D


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    #327
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    JanusGeminius wrote: »
    There isn't a problem with that though as it's rendered in Arabic numbering so language doesn't apply. It's only the Language Nazis that have a problem with it.


    I just have a problem when people insist that TVfive is TVcinq, while refusing to call TG4 TGceathair. :rolleyes:

    So no news on Boxer !


    regrets bring this up!


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    #328
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Have boxer signed the licence/contract with the BCI yet ....more to the point ! Have they siggned up with RTENL ?


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    #329
    scath
    Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    Can we assume for the Digital Reception pdf on RTÉ NL which mentions boxer that they have now returned the contracts? As that's a recent document can one assume that? Boxer have launched in Denmark http://www.dvb.org/about_dvb/dvb_worldwide/denmark/ so can would suspect that they still have the appetite to here? I could imagine the issue of Boxer sign-off with the BCI + funding of the switchover help scheme has delayed the Dept's DTT Info Campaign. Also I would imagine that RTÉ had to plug their financial hole with some cuts in payroll in order to see how they were proceeding with launch, ie when.

    I haven't an inside track, so am guessing it has been the reason for the delay. With the budget out of the way, the Dept should have clarity now and sign off on it from the Dept of Finance.

    To my mind the BCI need to set a sign-off date/target for Boxer. The unclarity I don't think would be fair to RTÉ in terms of Free-to-air launch budget. Either the BCI decide okay, given current economic conditions, we're happy to delay contract conclusions for a year til things become clearer or they decide to suspend after a definite date negotiations if not concluded and offer the license then to the next highest rated.

    I think if it were Onevision or Easy TV, the contracts would have been returned to RTÉ NL and there would be a clear launch path. Certainly, Onevision's offering seemed most recession proof and I see Boxer's or an Easy TV one which was similar as gaining little traction versus Sky or UPC if they launch. By contrast the Onevision pricing seems to be a strong contender.

    So I think given the current economic climate that pricing will have to change to what Onevision were suggesting in order to get takers. Also the pre-paid/post pay mode of the mobile phone market seems like a wise one. And usb sticks are a potential strong part of the pay DTT business given the lack of alternative from Sky or UPC until broadband contention rates improve in big swatches of the country.

    I think Boxer may still proceed, but I think they'll have to go with Onevision pricing or it'll be embarrasingly low uptake for them with little takers for the few channels for €10. I say again, Laptop TV is a potenial winner so they'd be mad not to launch that product at the same time and I see Sky and UPC as promoting their online options heavily to counteract that. I suspect that UPC will see the online TV product as a big part of their future as the cable market get's squeezed by Boxer. Likewise I see Sky pushing more the online TV product.

    But Boxer Laptop TV will be able to push a good 3 or more years out of things while contention rates are slow before the online market starts to squeeze. That's why I think laptop TV via usb stick as critical to the early uptake of Boxer.

    I guess long term we might see the decline of terrestrial, cable and satellite broadcasting as contention speeds increase, though I'm talking 5 to 10 years with Online TV taking over and wireless broadband dominating with landline doing nothing more than teleconferencing.


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    #330
    tretle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭tretle


    Would there be any usb dvb-t tuners capable of receiving an encrypted broadcast? I don't think this will be a selling point for boxer. It would be a huge selling point for RTE DTT though.


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    #331
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Can I ask perhaps a stupid question!

    Can a Satellite/Terrestrial broadcaster provided you with pay TV without the use of a smart card?

    I.E. If I have a freesat/mpeg4 DTT ready TV can I organise with Sky/Boxer getting Sky Sports using my Make, Model and Serial Number or chip number etc?

    Also if I am getting a new TV should I go for a FreeSat/Mpeg5 ready TV?


This discussion has been closed.
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