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Boxer win Irish DTT, but pull out.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    pa990 wrote: »
    A lot of people don't realise that there are free ch's on sat

    I showed a guy at work today what was available.. and he was amazed.. he thought there was some trick or scam.. he is actually gonna cancel his multi-room sub, and just have FTA in his second room.

    People need to be educated on what is available.

    i'm going off topic here..sorry

    Have to agree and it was suggested at the BCI Broadcasting Conference that the public be educated about all platforms.

    However it is unlikely that Boxer, UPC or Sky want to educate people about the Free channels on satellite.

    IMO FTA DTT AND/OR FTA Satellite should replace the 25% of homes with only terrestrial television. However this pushes boxer out of the picture, bar their PAY SPORTS AND PPV Channels :)


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    pa990 wrote: »
    A lot of people don't realise that there are free ch's on sat

    They will learn quickly.

    Irish people have always been fairly innovative with getting free TV channels, right from the days of the first TV's when people stuck up massive aerials to pick up the BBC. And that was before the internet :eek:

    In my experience, it only takes one person in a street or estate to get Freesat and soon it spreads like wildfire.

    Really the only thing missing is an affordable PVR Freesat box with DTT integrated, that would sell like hotcakes here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    bk wrote: »
    Irish people have always been fairly innovative with getting free TV channels, right from the days of the first TV's when people stuck up massive aerials to pick up the BBC. And that was before the internet :eek:

    Long before the days of TÉ not much use looking at a blank screen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,764 ✭✭✭Valentia


    bk wrote: »
    Really the only thing missing is an affordable PVR Freesat box with DTT integrated, that would sell like hotcakes here.

    Now you're talking! :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭taung


    Laura Noonan has a report in today's Irish Independent on possible problems and delays with the Boxer Pay-DTT service launch;

    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/delays-give-mixed-signals-on-the-future-of-commercial-dtt-1653710.html

    I guess the people with money are getting nervous about making large investments in Ireland with dewindling prospects for making profits on the investments.

    I liked the comment given to her by the RTE source "We're not ordering the next piece of equipment until we get that contract back." :D

    I guess RTE must have already 'ordered' some equipment in the expectation that Boxer DTT had put the 'cheque in the post', or something like that!! :D

    Seriously, it's a pity that Boxer appear to be pulling back now....time to buy shares in UPC and SKY!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,756 ✭✭✭gtg60


    Interesting but hardly surprising, let's just hope it doesn't stop/ slow the rollout of RTE's public service.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭taung


    I don't know, but I would guess that RTE may well be reliant on some of the money from Boxer to fund the roll-out of FTA DTT......


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭slegs


    Looks like some of the transmitters that were planned for later upgrade by RTENL for FTA may get held up in this standoff


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,313 ✭✭✭Antenna


    taung wrote: »
    [url]I guess RTE must have already 'ordered' some equipment in the expectation that Boxer DTT had put the 'cheque in the post', or something like that!! :D

    [/url]
    Even more than that.
    yes they already purchased and installed transmission equipment for a number of transmitter sites for Boxer, so they have also spent money installing it, spent money on electricity consumption of the test transmissions that have been on air of equipment earmarked for Boxer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 872 ✭✭✭More Music




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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭pa990


    WOW.. boxer might fail before it even starts.

    On one hand i'm disappointed, but on the other i am happy.
    Hopefully Boxer with either hand back the licence or they may be asked to hand it back.
    This would lead the way for another operator.. one with more FTA content (hopefully).

    The only drawback is the obvious one, of delayed DTT rollout


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭slegs


    Boxer was always going to fail. It is only a matter of whether they launch at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Threads merged. We don't need a new one.



    It shouldn't delay the PSB mux.


    If Boxer totally fails before launch, RTENL could use gear they have bought for Boxer rollout to enable more sites for the PSB mux.


  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    They could do that Watty, but

    ...if Boxer hand back I expect the BCI will go to the runner up and see if they're interested. That means Onevision or Easy TV could still be in the running. Would expect RTÉ & UPC to be still interested should Boxer pull out and Onevision not be interested. For RTÉ would be full steam ahead. I expect that free-to-air launch mux launch will go ahead anyways. It can't wait and article seems to suggest that. In worst case I expect Easy TV to return.

    How about lineup now. Well as HOTO (Oireachtas TV) has been shelved:

    RTÉ1
    RTÉ 2 archived & US programming(move kids programming to CulaDen TV (CRTE+CTG4))
    RTÉ News Now (More oireachtas TV coverage)
    CulaDen TV (Den TV, Cula4, 12hrs of prog looped once

    3
    3e
    3Today (News, documentary, including Oireachtas TV coverage)

    TG4 (morning programming simulcast from RnaG and RnaLife studios) or previous day Oireachtas coverage, more Oireachtas coverage)

    The Irish Arts Channel (incorporating Irish Films, DCTV, Cork CTV programming, RTÉ Performing Groups, Drama, Festivals, Oireachtas TV Coverage).

    Oideachas TV/Eolas TV (OU, Irish Unis and IofTech)

    10 TV channels. Use to max, National Radio stations, Digital Teletexts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    scath wrote: »
    How about lineup now. Well as HOTO (Oireachtas TV) has been shelved:

    RTÉ1
    RTÉ 2 archived & US programming(move kids programming to CulaDen TV (CRTE+CTG4))
    RTÉ News Now (More oireachtas TV coverage)
    CulaDen TV (Den TV, Cula4, 12hrs of prog looped once

    3
    3e
    3Today (News, documentary, including Oireachtas TV coverage)

    TG4 (morning programming simulcast from RnaG and RnaLife studios) or previous day Oireachtas coverage, more Oireachtas coverage)

    The Irish Arts Channel (incorporating Irish Films, DCTV, Cork CTV programming, RTÉ Performing Groups, Drama, Festivals, Oireachtas TV Coverage).

    Oideachas TV/Eolas TV (OU, Irish Unis and IofTech)

    10 TV channels. Use to max, National Radio stations, Digital Teletexts.

    Surely it would be LRTÉ and LTG4? not C. :) I personnel don't like the idea of Irish and English programming on the same channel for children. I think that those children that don't speak Irish would find it difficult and would choose CBBC or even Nickelodian over CulaDen !!!! It is important for children to see themselves.

    I cannot see TV3 being to happy to broadcast OTV for free on one of their channels. I do not see why 3e should be FTA i think this would be a waste of PBS mux.

    RTÉ ONE as is
    RTÉ TWO morning Eolas
    RTÉ THREE morning The Den
    RTÉ INTERNATIONAL (selection of programming for an international audience, mainly NEWS and Documentaries, mainly repeats such as Prime Time an hour later i.e. a toned down +1 service)

    TG4 as is
    Scannan 4 (with the assistance of IFB/BSÉ)
    Nuacht TG4 (news from around the world including OTV, cosuil le http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBS_World_News, i.e. news updates from around Europe from other EBU broadcasters)

    TV3 as is

    A new commercial service with other channels on Boxer

    3e and 3Today available on Boxer

    All BAI channels a must carry on all platforms.


  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    CRTÉ and LTG4 to be precise-yer right lol

    Regarding Kids not Irish speaking, in school they have to learn Irish so having the programming mixed up on 1 channel does make sense, mixing the Irish language Kids programming with the English language programming can get around it but Nickledoen doesn't mix with MTV. So RTÉ2 shouldn't mix with DenTV in the DTT. With analogue its about spectrum, but not with DTT. Kids have to learn Irish so CulaDen TV makes sense for them.

    I meant For TV3 and RTÉ News Now like Taoiseach's Questions similar to what RTÉ News do now with just abit more coverage carrying OTV branded programming. Why not. OTV wouldn't compete with those, its a psb with no advertising.

    Doing part time Eolas and Den is not maximising genre channel branding. Digital is all about genres. That's its purpose, people don't have to compromise, Kids programming for kids, RTÉ1&2 for teens and adults.

    Eolas should be Eolas, Arts arts, Kids, kids programming only. What we have at the moment is a compromise due to lack of spectrum. With DTT there's no reason for it to continue.

    No need for RTÉ3 as RTÉ2 with US programming like BBC3 and some archive programming timeshare. Let Eolas TV have some archive programming from RTÉ also

    RTE International is for satellite and is without ads so doesn't make sense for RTE to have on DTT, wasting spectrum and screwing its ads pulling audience away from RTÉ1 & 2. RTÉ is part funded by ads remember. It costs money so ya can't go putting RTÉ Internation on DTT and screwing your funding up. If you have Freesat+DTT combo you can have it if you want, but at least no point in wasting spectrum and deliberately screwing up your funding model.

    3 have a right have all its channels to be on the RTÉ mux equally as much as RTÉ unless it decides it wants to be encypted. If it does, fair play fine. Point UK broadcasters like Film4 of Channel 4 and they found more revenue generation being free-to-air. More audience so if RTÉ2 with US programming then 3e has a right there too.

    The RTÉ mux is not just for RTÉ ya know. Its a free-to-air mux for Irish broadcasters. We can't afford what the BBC in the UK has with its own mux. We just don't have the revenue for that. What the public wishes for and what is economically affordable by those who have to run broadcast organisations are different. Broadcasters like RTÉ do their best to be all things to all people. But from what I've read, Digital TV will be very challenging for the likes of RTÉ, it brings more challenge than benefit.

    I often feel RTÉ need to explain what they can and can't do. People can then decide if they want that model changed to no ads and they want more tax going to that and ask to be on the electric bill as a PSB obligation levy instead of TV license. At the moment RTÉ need ad revenue so can't have RTÉ International on DTT.

    Scannan4 on its own does not have enough programming. That's why I suggest rejigged to wider Arts concept-and share time with Oireachtas TV as can Eolas TV. That way we get Oireachtas TV without having to give it 1 full channel. The Arts Channel allows community programming, arts programming and Films, when ya think of it all the ingredients for channel really to do well.

    Agreed regarding BCI channels. But difficult on Sky Ireland as is regulated from the UK. City Channels can go on Boxer as can the UK channels and Bubble Hits but again I believe these will pay to be free-to-air as will TV3. Its a matter for TV3 which they prefer RTÉ or boxer but FTA they will be I believe.

    A differing ideas...I'm sure the powers that be will decide themselves. If TV3 want to be on the RTÉ mux RTÉ will be happy to recieve the premium for carriage as coverage is 6% further than Boxer by 2013.


  • Registered Users Posts: 347 ✭✭John Dough


    Valentia wrote: »
    Now you're talking! :)

    There is Mvision down to £185 now.:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    scath wrote: »
    They could do that Watty, but

    ...if Boxer hand back I expect the BCI will go to the runner up and see if they're interested. That means Onevision or Easy TV could still be in the running. Would expect RTÉ & UPC to be still interested should Boxer pull out and Onevision not be interested. For RTÉ would be full steam ahead. I expect that free-to-air launch mux launch will go ahead anyways. It can't wait and article seems to suggest that. In worst case I expect Easy TV to return

    UPC's parent is looking at over $790M loss and just loaned SiriusXM about $560M.

    They have committed to 100% BB on the cable and HD rollout and have to change boxes for Nagra3.
    RTE & UPC don't have the money now.

    With the recession & Credit Crunch, if Boxer pull out, that will be it for next few years. Don't forget this licence has been on offer for nearly 9 years now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    scath wrote: »
    CRTÉ and LTG4 to be precise-yer right lol

    Regarding Kids not Irish speaking, in school they have to learn Irish so having the programming mixed up on 1 channel does make sense, mixing the Irish language Kids programming with the English language programming can get around it but Nickledoen doesn't mix with MTV. So RTÉ2 shouldn't mix with DenTV in the DTT. With analogue its about spectrum, but not with DTT. Kids have to learn Irish so CulaDen TV makes sense for them.

    Both BBC THREE, BBC FOUR, FIVE and ITV4 carry a branded children's service, CBBC, CBEEBS, Milkshake and CITV respectively on Freeview. While both BBC2 and C4 carry Educational Programming during the day and late at night.

    Cula4 and The Den brings use back in the the old discussion of an Irish service for Irish speakers. I know that I disliked Irish Language programming on The Den growing up I know the only reason I watch was because I didn't have a choice, had I I may never have watched Irish Children's TV which is actually Important IMO. So keeping them separate is best.
    I meant For TV3 and RTÉ News Now like Taoiseach's Questions similar to what RTÉ News do now with just abit more coverage carrying OTV branded programming. Why not. OTV wouldn't compete with those, its a psb with no advertising.

    TV3 would have to be paid by the government to provided such a service, RTE or TG4 could be persuaded to take it on at no extra cost to the government.

    RTE International is for satellite and is without ads so doesn't make sense for RTE to have on DTT, wasting spectrum and screwing its ads pulling audience away from RTÉ1 & 2. RTÉ is part funded by ads remember. It costs money so ya can't go putting RTÉ Internation on DTT and screwing your funding up. If you have Freesat+DTT combo you can have it if you want, but at least no point in wasting spectrum and deliberately screwing up your funding model.

    I do not think RTÉ International should be free of advertising.
    3 have a right have all its channels to be on the RTÉ mux equally as much as RTÉ unless it decides it wants to be encypted. If it does, fair play fine. Point UK broadcasters like Film4 of Channel 4 and they found more revenue generation being free-to-air. More audience so if RTÉ2 with US programming then 3e has a right there too.

    The TV3 Group! :rolleyes: don't not have a right to have 3e on an FTA MUX its license is for Cable and Satellite, It doesn't even have a right for DTT Pay TV Muxs.

    Channel 4 is a PBS owned by the British government. I think a new commercial service should be set up I do not believe that The TV3 Group would provide a good alternative alone to the FTA audience. I don't think that 3e has proven itself worthy of FTA status.

    Your argument would lead me to believe that there should not be a PAY TV DTT service, I agree.
    Scannan4 on its own does not have enough programming. That's why I suggest rejigged to wider Arts concept-and share time with Oireachtas TV as can Eolas TV. That way we get Oireachtas TV without having to give it 1 full channel. The Arts Channel allows community programming, arts programming and Films, when ya think of it all the ingredients for channel really to do well.

    Scannan4: TG4 have a set of films which it could repeat of Scannan 4 plus the planned IFB Channel. Again Film 4 starts at 2, it should be dual funded with advertising as well.
    Nuacht TG4 could have Irish news bulletins on the hour with English subtitles and ISL, with other main news from various EU states e.g. News from France 2 or TVE.


    TV3 will be on the PBS Mux. I do not believe that The TV3 Group have anymore right to an extra place on PBS as any other company, I would like to see a new Company in the market.

    With regards ARTS etc. most channels carry a wide variety of programming and are not overly focused. e.g. BBC FOUR/More 4 are not just an arts service IMO, and BBC THREE isn't just a Teen channel, FilmFour isn't just for Movie Buffs or Arthouse Cinema, E4 has 4music in the morning or at least it used to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Sorry just looked at free view CBBC etc seem to be now split between channels bit of a waste IMO when

    CBBC runs until 7pm and BBC Three starts at 7pm you may as well keep both of them in the same place. Save space. Didn't they do this to begin with?

    Any milkshake remains on FIVE.

    I don't see the branding issues. Especially when the TV3 Group cann't even brand correctly. uHHHG.

    I am actually providing more with the same space taking it that we have only got 8 channels at most on FTA service. (I could live without Nuacht TG4)

    Start 06:00 14:00 18:00 00:00
    1 RTE ONE RTE ONE RTE ONE RTE ONE
    2 RTE EOLAS RTE EOLAS RTE TWO RTE TWO
    3 TV3 TV3 TV3 TV3
    4 CULA 4 CULA 4 TG4 TG4
    5 Ireland's 5th Ireland's 5th Ireland's 5th Ireland's 5th
    6 THE DEN THE DEN RTE THREE RTE THREE
    7 Scannan 4 Scannan 4
    8 RTE I RTE I RTE I RTE I
    9 EuroNews Nuacht TG4 Nuacht TG4 France 24


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  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    Minister and RTÉ decided RTÉ International won't have advertising. But I don't agree it should not and I emailed why it should.

    But 2 reasons I think why they think no ads
    1) Damaging to UTV's PSB model
    2) Cost of running a UK ad office versus perceived interest in it.

    1) I suggested a solution to this involving all broadcasters including the BBC, UTV & TV3, City Channels as an island of Ireland channel with ad breaks where in return for providing Irish made programming, during ad breaks they would get return on ad breaks and contribute towards carriage costs.

    2) I think they underestimate the level of interest there would be for and island of Ireland channel made up of Irish programming. I think there would be interest among advertisers.
    MYOB wrote: »
    Can see this happening I slightly updated MYOBs:

    1: RTE mux launches as planned next month and rolls out slowly, probably in tandem with DAB
    2: Boxer gets delayed/withdraws
    3: And again
    4: Someone launches off Three Rock, Spur Hill, Woodcock Hill in about 2010
    ? Hopefully doesn't happen hit the wall in about 2012 after never having expanded their network due to low takeup....
    doesn't sound far wrong now again

    I'm against the idea of +1 channels as waste of spectrum when online can offer replay for 7 days etc of programming. Options are Sky Active playback methods but no point dedicating a whole channel to +1.

    I agree in the UK there is still mixture. I think that is because morning programming such as BBC Breakfast, GMTV etc is challenging, and Channel 4 did try it. But I do prefer the genrefication of TV that Digital can bring for example Sky and there is an Arts channel called Sky Arts and currently Arts is poorly served among Irish channels with TG4 and RTÉ making the most efforts.

    I don't think that a Films channel is viable without other programming, that is why I think that a channel encompassing DCTV, RTÉ Performing Groups on a consistant basis and programmes by government agencies of useful public info to get a return on spend also.

    Nuacht TG4 not viable as a channel. Must be part of RTÉ News Now on a rotational basis ie RTÉ news bulletin, Nuacht TG4 bulletin, RTE Bulletin, Nuacht TG4 bulletin etc with Nuacht TG4 including the news that was on RTÉ plus more gaeltacht oriented stuff.

    TV3 branding isn't bad, I do think they could have turned the 6 logo into a 3 with the blue dot in the middle, add the e but its not bad.

    Regarding 3e, when they apply for a terrestrial license then they have equal right to prime epg locations like cable as an indigenous broadcaster. We saw what the Sky epg did to them, lets us not do that by relegating them to the pay EPG positions.

    I don't know have any digital terrestrial license applications been invited. I suspect 3e will be among the first to apply for these and that 3e's rejig will have that in mind. Whether its on the RTÉ mux is a matter for TV3 and whether they want to pay the premium for a higher EPG position and 6% more coverage area. But if it wants to it has a right as much as RTÉ.
    But as part of subscription would not be good for 3e. Its best future is as free-to-air judging by lessons of Channel 4 with Film4.

    Am in favour of a 2nd commercial broadcaster. Channel 4 I think would be interested but whether they would be allowed spent the capital needed as a PSB is the question. If they are on a 5. No doubt they'd have to pay a license to RTL for the brand. Indeed it could be a co-ownership with Five.This is where programming rights come in. Similarly TV3 acquiring UTV and a deal with ITV on joint acquisition makes similar sense.

    Some incentive should be given for it to locate in Cork so that there's a national broadcaster in each province for the benefit of graduates of media. Also a soap from Cork would certainly be good and TV3 need to work on a soap drama to provide an alternative to Fair City.

    Don't think TV3 would have to be paid with 3Today, because Sky News for instance carry PMQ's so if it had time why wouldn't it. Maybe OTV branding is going to far. Just that 3 isn't oriented as a channel that way, which is what 3 Today would be all about. 3 is like ITV. 3Today would be more newsy oriented.

    If you want kids programming to continue as is,then lets have Breakfast News of BBC1 style on RTÉ1, Eolas TV and archive programming on RTÉ2 and Kids programming and US on RTÉ3.



    In fairness you can argue against TV3 needing another channel. Points taken on children's programming.TV3 should turn 3 into 3Today and move drama over to 3e so they'll have 2 strong channels. They don't need 3 channels. They need to beef up 3e instead. There's 8 channels. Eolas and Arts timeshare. TG4 don't need more channels but they can contribute to Arts4 and Eolas. Sky Arts you forgot.Eolas and Arts are complimentary but don't thing RTÉ should get involved, TG4 are better placed to help the 3rd level sector make programming given their relationship with Independent producers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    scath wrote: »
    TV3 branding isn't bad, I do think they could have turned the 6 logo into a 3 with the blue dot in the middle, add the e but its not bad.

    Regarding 3e, when they apply for a terrestrial license then they have equal right to prime epg locations like cable as an indigenous broadcaster. We saw what the Sky epg did to them, lets us not do that by relegating them to the pay EPG positions.

    I don't know have any digital terrestrial license applications been invited. I suspect 3e will be among the first to apply for these and that 3e's rejig will have that in mind. Whether its on the RTÉ mux is a matter for TV3 and whether they want to pay the premium for a higher EPG position and 6% more coverage area. But if it wants to it has a right as much as RTÉ.
    But as part of subscription would not be good for 3e. Its best future is as free-to-air judging by lessons of Channel 4 with Film4.

    Okay so I am going first comment on the branding of The TV3 Group. Dreadful. Dreadful. Dreadful. The logos both look like they could have been done by a 3 year old using MSPaint. Highly boring an unoriginal. Just look at the TG4 logo and idents alone, TG4 seem to put allot of work into their on screen presentation and marketing. The TV3 Group haven't got a clue, even look across at the beautiful on screen presentation of C4. One word AMAZING. I am sorry but the big bold 3 just represent the pure uninteresting, unoriginal banality of The TV3 Group.





    AND OF COURSE :)



    In relation the subscription aspect of The TV3 Group, 3E isn't subscription rather it is part of a wider subscription service, which Film Four where not part of. Film Four was one station that you had to pay 10euro a month for not worthwhile hence the decision to go FTA. ITV Digital was also partly responsible for the ending of subscription services from both ITV and C4.

    If I where the BCI I would not give TV3 another Terrestrial License, I am sure their are much more worthwhile TV companies ready to take on that golden chalice of Free To Air TV. Remember without the their Terrestrial license TV3 would fail to make up much of the number that they get from ITV productions. TV3 could have several extra channels on UPC, Sky and Boxer, but to even thing of giving 3e a position well you may as well just go with 4 new +1 services for the current 4. IMO.

    An extra space should be provided for a new commercial service for a new company to provide extra competition. TV3 should be automatically ruled out.
    Minister and RTÉ decided RTÉ International won't have advertising. But I don't agree it should not and I emailed why it should.

    But 2 reasons I think why they think no ads
    1) Damaging to UTV's PSB model
    2) Cost of running a UK ad office versus perceived interest in it.

    1) I suggested a solution to this involving all broadcasters including the BBC, UTV & TV3, City Channels as an island of Ireland channel with ad breaks where in return for providing Irish made programming, during ad breaks they would get return on ad breaks and contribute towards carriage costs.

    2) I think they underestimate the level of interest there would be for and island of Ireland channel made up of Irish programming. I think there would be interest among advertisers.

    Are you sure it was the Minister, I thought it was RTÉ who did that. I don't see how it could damage UTV's PSB model it is a separate channel. RTÉ International should be a worldwide service for Ex-Patriots, but it could as act as a service to the wider Irish Audience. IMO.
    Am in favour of a 2nd commercial broadcaster. Channel 4 I think would be interested but whether they would be allowed spent the capital needed as a PSB is the question. If they are on a 5. No doubt they'd have to pay a license to RTL for the brand. Indeed it could be a co-ownership with Five.This is where programming rights come in. Similarly TV3 acquiring UTV and a deal with ITV on joint acquisition makes similar sense.

    C4 consider Irish advertising a bit of a "free-be" and to even suggest that they would take on BCI arrangements is a bit strange when they can broadcast in without and take the money without and PSB contract agreements in place. C4 is a semi-state body, just like the BBC.

    Again did TG4 get a licence for the number 4? Five is an English channel if a new company wanted to call their channel C5, 5 or TV5 etc they need not get permission from foreign broadcasters who don't even have an interest in broadcasting in Ireland! Just as long has they don't us the FIVE brand they should be okay or they could not bother with a number at all, Numbers have become a bit troublesome since digital has happened IMO. look at BBC THREE AND BBC FOUR did they thing of the damage to TV3 and C4 when the used those numbers????
    Some incentive should be given for it to locate in Cork so that there's a national broadcaster in each province for the benefit of graduates of media. Also a soap from Cork would certainly be good and TV3 need to work on a soap drama to provide an alternative to Fair City.

    TV3 have no interest in producing an Irish soap. I am sorry but TV3 are broadcasters in the main not producers. They do need some Irish Drama alright and a soap would definitely suit their ITV productions.
    Don't think TV3 would have to be paid with 3Today, because Sky News for instance carry PMQ's so if it had time why wouldn't it. Maybe OTV branding is going to far. Just that 3 isn't oriented as a channel that way, which is what 3 Today would be all about. 3 is like ITV. 3Today would be more newsy oriented.

    Just for the sake of all the marketing money that TV3 have invested into their new brand (ZERO, maybe the price of a mars bar) they are The TV3 Group not 3 which as you point out may cause problems with another brand called 3 that sponsors Xpose. I believe you are giving to much to TV3 without looking at the over all land scape. I just don't think they have shown they deserve all of this type of programming. Sorry.
    Nuacht TG4 not viable as a channel. Must be part of RTÉ News Now on a rotational basis ie RTÉ news bulletin, Nuacht TG4 bulletin, RTE Bulletin, Nuacht TG4 bulletin etc with Nuacht TG4 including the news that was on RTÉ plus more gaeltacht oriented stuff.

    You may have pick me up wrong about the Nuacht TG4 channel. It would be an international channel filled with International news reports in different languages from different countries i.e. the channel would buy in Main Evening news from other EBU members such as BBC, TVE, France 2, SVT etc. Hourly news updates in Irish with subtitles and ISL (Irish Sign Language).
    If you want kids programming to continue as is,then lets have Breakfast News of BBC1 style on RTÉ1, Eolas TV and archive programming on RTÉ2 and Kids programming and US on RTÉ3.

    Yeah no need to split up channels just for the sake of marketing oh look we have 10 channel but each only go out for 12 hours at different times, really we only have 5 channels if we are lucky. :rolleyes:
    In fairness you can argue against TV3 needing another channel. Points taken on children's programming.TV3 should turn 3 into 3Today and move drama over to 3e so they'll have 2 strong channels. They don't need 3 channels. They need to beef up 3e instead. There's 8 channels. Eolas and Arts timeshare. TG4 don't need more channels but they can contribute to Arts4 and Eolas. Sky Arts you forgot.Eolas and Arts are complimentary but don't thing RTÉ should get involved, TG4 are better placed to help the 3rd level sector make programming given their relationship with Independent producers.

    I believe that TG4 have enough money to provide extra channels for a PSB mux. TG4 should be involved in the IFB channel as it already has contacts in the states and around Europe for the broadcast of films on TG4, the IFB could provide them with their catelogue of films as suggested for the film channel. The idea provide by James Morris (IFB Chief) that he could run the channel on 3million is a joke and a waste of space. A channel dedicated to movie buffs and film students would be of putting to the average viewer, however with the help of many of the movies bought in by TG4 these movies could get better viewing figures by providing blockbusters and art house movies that many would over look but may look at on the off chance of what they consider better movies. James Morris also suggested no advertising for the film channel, again I disagree, I thing TG4 should have a profit driven channel to provide more money to TG4, the channel should not be provided from funding for IFB or TG4 rather it should be from advertising in its entirety (TG4 spend its advertising revenue on Imports). TG4 also have a good catelogue of short movies that it could provide in addition to the IFB/European/American films.

    As for the TV3 Group. Uhhg! I have lost all hope, the presentation is dreadful. And looking at the branding across all stations, TV3 looks like a poor sister to a soviet era public service broadcaster. 3Today and 3e could work but 3e would have to provide some Irish programming. Also the scheduling of 3e over the past few months also leads be to believe that the advertising agencies aren't to impressed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    I think a new channel would suffer if it was not given the number 5 position on the Irish DTT. Why should 3e be a head of the 5th channel. Unfair IMO.

    The TV3 Group could have 4 new channels across all pay platforms, as could the new 5th channel.

    I think your revision worsens your opposition to branding which I do agree is important.

    And don't start the branding with RTÉ, CRTÉ FFS man its The Den <<< the den is actually a good brand. and even if you call it CRTÉ it still has to be L or P, Leanaí or Páistí.

    And TG4 stays at number 4 or even number 3. TV3 should be closed down lol.

    Even I think putting The TV3 Group after the RTÉ channels is unfair.

    Re: Table they are a bit of a pisser, do it up in a spreadsheet first and then put the table tags around the paste, don't delete the spacing.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    scath wrote: »
    3 have a right have all its channels to be on the RTÉ mux equally as much as RTÉ unless it decides it wants to be encypted. If it does, fair play fine. Point UK broadcasters like Film4 of Channel 4 and they found more revenue generation being free-to-air. More audience so if RTÉ2 with US programming then 3e has a right there too.

    They don't. 3e is a commercial channel, currently only available by pay-TV, and has absolutely no right to access a multiplex which is being funded by the taxpayer through the licence fee except on a fully commercial arrangement between RTÉNL and TV3. Personally I would rather see this multiplex being used for public service/free-to-air services. Nonetheless, I would imagine that if Boxer ever gets to air, 3e will form part of its package as it forms part of Sky and Chorus NTL's packages.

    TV3 (the channel) is slightly different and has public service obligations (er, such as they are...) There is a procedure under Section 3 (5) of the Broadcasting (Amendment) Act 2007 where TV3 can be carried on the RTÉ multiplex if the BCI requests the Minister that RTÉ do so. But this procedure applies only to TV3 and not to 3e or any other services TV3 Television Network might start up. And they still have to pay for it (it isn't free carriage).

    The relevant sections:
    (5) The Minister shall, at the request of the Commission and after consultation with the Authority require the Authority to make provision in a multiplex established, maintained and operated by the Authority under section 16(1) of the Act of 1960 for the broadcasting by digital means of the television programme service provided under the television programme service contract by the television programme service contractor.

    (6) If the Minister makes a requirement of the Authority under subsection (5) , the television programme service contractor shall make to the Authority such periodic or other payments in respect of any service provided by the Authority in meeting that requirement as the Minister, after consultation with the Commission for Communications Regulation, the Authority and the television programme service contractor, may direct.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭pa990


    I wouldn't be too worried about the channel lineup at the moment..

    The next BIG HEADLINE we see could be Boxer hands' back License (unsigned)

    Lets just wait and see if RTE can afford to continue the DTT roll out without Boxers money, bearing in mind that RTE has already spend money on equipment for the other Mux's and that they were expecting an income from that equipment, and until Boxer return the contract.. no money will be coming RTE's way



    (rte= rte & rtenl)


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    pa990 wrote: »
    Lets just wait and see if RTE can afford to continue the DTT roll out without Boxers money, bearing in mind that RTE has already spend money on equipment for the other Mux's and that they were expecting an income from that equipment, and until Boxer return the contract.. no money will be coming RTE's way

    It has to happen regardless :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭pa990


    Elmo wrote: »
    It has to happen regardless :(

    i agree.. it has to happen.
    But it might not happen as quick as was expected.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    pa990 wrote: »
    i agree.. it has to happen.
    But it might not happen as quick as was expected.

    Ah sure we have waited this long :(

    I am guessing that this is how it is going to happen without boxer (should boxer pull out)

    1. Boxer pulls out in Sept 2009
    2. RTÉ start digital broadcasts in Jan 2010
    3. The line up is RTE ONE, RTE TWO, TV3 and TG4
    4. BCI ask for expressions of interest in new Terrestrial channels in Mar 2010
    5. BCI receives expressions in June
    6. BCI licence channels in Sept (Including 3e, who start straight away)
    7. Most plan to start up by mid 2011.

    :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    Guys, if any of you are thinking of sending the ideas regarding the FTA Mux to the Minister or stakeholders, I would advise first get the opinions of those affected and include them in what you think.

    When you don't get their input and it means that they will respond to those ideas without interacting back with you and you will be at a loss. This is not something I like to do,annoying people.

    These people are good talented people and when I was doing a thesis on the topic I was fortunate to have had their input.

    I guess most of you don't go further than discussing ideas here generally and perhaps I should do the same. It makes me wonder am I making a nuisance of myself.

    On the other hand its a valid point that if you are going to send your ideas to the Minister that you should consult those who could be affected on their opinions of your ideas and then include these with your proposals as your ideas may have impact on them.

    I guess its about at the end of the day if you are going to present ideas you should give those affected the courtesy of commenting on your ideas first before you send them to the person who makes the decisions.

    I guess I hadn't thought of that. But now I have learned this is how one should do things.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    scath wrote: »
    I guess its about at the end of the day if you are going to present ideas you should give those affected the courtesy of commenting on your ideas first before you send them to the person who makes the decisions.

    I am going to take a wild guess as to what David McRedmond would say to my proposal: -

    "In the current market it is highly important for the TV3 group to have as many spin off stations as possible, and that they should be represented on as many platforms as possible, this includes RTÉNL PSB Mux. It would not be advantagoues for 3e only to be available to pay-TV customers, that is why TV3 and 3e should be afforded the opertunity to provide 2 commercial stations on the RTÉNL mux. As you know the Channel 4 channels had great difficulty as a pay stations hence their decission to move on to FTA Digtal in the UK (Freeveiw). We veiw our Grpup's business model upon those of the UK channels sister channels hence the need for at least two channels to be FTA in Ireland. This is why we would be totally apposed to the the creation of a "5th Irish Channel", we feel as the biggest indepedent broadcaster in Ireland that has provided the Irish market with continue strong competition to the 3 PBS broadcasters in Ireland that we must continue to be strong so as to provide those not in the Pay-TV packages with continued choice.A 5th channel would only cause damage to an already fragmented audience"


This discussion has been closed.
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