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The Legacy of Brian Lenihan

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  • 10-06-2011 10:51am
    #1
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,476 ✭✭✭✭


    Paddysnapper wrote: »
    Very sad news....He will be a great loss to the nation. And his family.

    oh, come on...
    he (among others) presided over the biggest scandal in Irish history, handing billions of banking debt over to the public and lied constantly to the same public about what was going on.

    I for one am not sorry to see the back of him.

    Ye may feel that's harsh but he imposed hardship and suffering on tens of thousands of Irish people due to his financial decisions as minister and did it all without regret and with a smile on his face.

    EDIT:
    FYI, I did not create this thread, it was split by one of the Mods from another


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    #2
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    oh, come on...
    he (among others) presided over the biggest scandal in Irish history, handing billions of banking debt over to the public and lied constantly to the same public about what was going on.

    I for one am not sorry to see the back of him.

    Ye may feel that's harsh but he imposed hardship and suffering on tens of thousands of Irish people due to his financial decisions as minister and did it all without regret and with a smile on his face.

    While personally I'm sorry that a man this young with a family has died I won't miss him in politics. That 2008 blanket bank guarantee was a monster fúckup and trying to blame the ECB for 'making' him do it didn't help his credibility. I can't really understand why people found him so believable, probably the same reasons why people liked Tony Blair at the time.


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    #3
    radharc
    Registered Users Posts: 965 ✭✭✭radharc


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    oh, come on...
    he (among others) presided over the biggest scandal in Irish history, handing billions of banking debt over to the public and lied constantly to the same public about what was going on.

    I for one am not sorry to see the back of him.

    Ye may feel that's harsh but he imposed hardship and suffering on tens of thousands of Irish people due to his financial decisions as minister and did it all without regret and with a smile on his face.


    What a prick u are

    He had a few hours to make one of the biggest decisions in Irish history, at the time most of "the experts" agreed he had no other real alternative. Few, no matter what their financial circumstances now, would doubt that he honestly felt he was making the decision in the country's interests.


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    #4
    Helium
    Registered Users Posts: 358 ✭✭Helium


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    oh, come on...
    he (among others) presided over the biggest scandal in Irish history, handing billions of banking debt over to the public and lied constantly to the same public about what was going on.

    I for one am not sorry to see the back of him.

    Ye may feel that's harsh but he imposed hardship and suffering on tens of thousands of Irish people due to his financial decisions as minister and did it all without regret and with a smile on his face.


    Oh come on yourself.... surely that comment is for another thread another day!!!


    Personally thought he gave his best through sickness and all.

    RIP and condolences to family


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    #5
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    radharc wrote: »
    What a prick u are

    He had a few hours to make one of the biggest decisions in Irish history, at the time most of "the experts" agreed he had no other real alternative. Few, no matter what their financial circumstances now, would doubt that he honestly felt he was making the decision in the country's interests.

    While I wouldn't agree with the harsh nature of cookie monsters post I also wouldn't agree that the man was some sort of saint. Many people in Ireland are suffering directly from BL's actions and I don't buy what he did was in the country's best interests. I think his buddies in the banks got him to do things he really shouldn't have and we're all paying for it.


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    #6
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    oh, come on...
    he (among others) presided over the biggest scandal in Irish history, handing billions of banking debt over to the public and lied constantly to the same public about what was going on.

    I for one am not sorry to see the back of him.

    Ye may feel that's harsh but he imposed hardship and suffering on tens of thousands of Irish people due to his financial decisions as minister and did it all without regret and with a smile on his face.

    I doubt that you would have done any better, far worse I dare to suggest, given the same information with the same time-frame to make that call. The man could have easily given up, blamed his illness and walked away but he put his country first and battled on. Whether you agree or disagree with his decisions, you can't deny him that.

    RIP


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    #7
    Aidric
    Registered Users Posts: 13,589 ✭✭✭✭Aidric


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    I for one am not sorry to see the back of him.
    Disgusting stuff. Hope you're proud of yourself.

    I have a lot of admiration for the fact that he was fighting battles in both his personal and professional life. RIP.


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    #8
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    I for one am not sorry to see the back of him.

    I don't think these sentiments are acceptable. We may all wish the political end of a politician, but his death as a person, husband and father should be a cause for regret.

    RIP.


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    #9
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    Although I’m not a fan of the policies pursued by FF I would have had a lot of respect for him. My only dealings with him were at a public meeting arranged by local residents when the M50/N4 junction was being upgraded (would have been before he became a minister). He impressed me because unlike the other couple of local representatives present, he didn’t play to the gallery and tell people what he thought they wanted to hear. He also seemed to know more about the legislation involved than any of the other politicians.
    Seemed like a very honest politician – and we could have done with more like him.


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    #10
    eigrod
    Registered Users Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭eigrod


    RIP.

    For those who say he put his country before his health, he certainly did, but to the detriment of both the country & his health, imo.

    When the diagnosis was first made, it was clear that the life expectancy & chances for full recovery were very low. Personally, I think he should have stepped down at that stage because nobody with that illness could give 100% to what was the most important job in the country at that time.


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    #11
    dan_d
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    oh, come on...
    he (among others) presided over the biggest scandal in Irish history, handing billions of banking debt over to the public and lied constantly to the same public about what was going on.

    I for one am not sorry to see the back of him.

    Ye may feel that's harsh but he imposed hardship and suffering on tens of thousands of Irish people due to his financial decisions as minister and did it all without regret and with a smile on his face.

    As a radio report I heard said..."he was a son, a father and a husband".

    He was all of those things before he was a politician.

    At times like this, you simply say rest in peace and leave it at that.

    Nobody deserves to die like that at such a young age.

    RIP.


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    #12
    irishh_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    oh, come on...
    he (among others) presided over the biggest scandal in Irish history, handing billions of banking debt over to the public and lied constantly to the same public about what was going on.

    I for one am not sorry to see the back of him.

    Ye may feel that's harsh but he imposed hardship and suffering on tens of thousands of Irish people due to his financial decisions as minister and did it all without regret and with a smile on his face.

    could your post not have waited untill tomorrow at least ?


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    #13
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,577 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    oh, come on...
    he (among others) presided over the biggest scandal in Irish history, handing billions of banking debt over to the public and lied constantly to the same public about what was going on.

    I for one am not sorry to see the back of him.

    Ye may feel that's harsh but he imposed hardship and suffering on tens of thousands of Irish people due to his financial decisions as minister and did it all without regret and with a smile on his face.

    There is a time and a place for comments/assessments like this. This is certainly not it.

    As posted above this is a man who (like him or not, or agree with his decisions or not) put his role as Minister for Finance before his personal health. He has left a young family behind now with no father.

    Quite frankly, in my opinion you ought to be ashamed of yourself. Have a bit of cop on and think before you type this sort of stuff.

    Yet another life and family's life has been again destroyed by this terrible disease that strikes without warning. Having personal experience of relatives passing away from it I feel for the Lenihan family. They need all the support they can get.

    RIP.


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    #14
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    maupat wrote: »
    A rare beacon of intelligence in Irish politics - my sympathies and condolences to his family.

    Are we really going to have to put up with people spouting nonsense like this just because the chap died. Beacon of intelligence indeed.


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    #15
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,476 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    lxflyer wrote: »
    There is a time and a place for comments/assessments like this. This is certainly not it.

    Quite frankly, in my opinion you ought to be ashamed of yourself. Have a bit of cop on and think before you type this sort of stuff.

    you wouldn't all be spurting RIP if it was some common criminal who died today, would you? In my eyes that's exactly what he is, it'll be proven in time for what he did to this country and it's people... Just like Haughey was.

    I won't apologise for that post, nor retract it.

    but of course, how dare I speak out with a different opinion, we all have to be nice today cos he died, like it changes something all of a sudden.
    What about all the other people in Ireland who passed away today, where's their condolence? But they were just common folk, not some glorious politician we can all circle jerk about and pretend we knew and liked.


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    #16
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    irishh_bob wrote: »
    could your post not have waited untill tomorrow at least ?

    Indeed, I have my own feelings about his record but for the moment condolences are due to his family. RIP.

    It might be a useful suggestion for someone to set up a thread on Brian Lenihans record in office and leave this thread for those who want to give their condolences without getting into a more contentious debate.


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    #17
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,577 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    you wouldn't all be spurting RIP if it was some common criminal who died today, would you? In my eyes that's exactly what he is, it'll be proven in time for what he did to this country and it's people... Just like Haughey was.

    I won't apologise for that post, nor retract it.

    but of course, how dare I speak out with a different opinion, we all have to be nice today cos he died, like it changes something all of a sudden.
    What about all the other people in Ireland who passed away today, where's their condolence? But they were just common folk, not some glorious politician we can all circle jerk about and pretend we knew and liked.

    It's not that you have a different opinion - thankfully we all differ about things in life.

    It's how and when you express it. I would happen to think that your timing is (to say the least) very poorly ill-judged, and that you could have been far more tactful, rather than charging in like a bull in a china shop.

    Brian Lenihan's deeds while he was Minister for Finance will be judged over time, and he may well be found to have made wrong decisions. But frankly a discussion of that is better served elsewhere than in a thread entitled "Brian Lenihan RIP".

    As for anyone else who has died, I am sure that the people who knew them are mourning them. Brian Lenihan was a public figure and of course far more people will comment on it.

    His death is frankly shocking, given he is only 52, appeared to have recovered, and more pointedly worked throughout his illness - you may not agree with his decisions but the fact remains that he put his personal health to one side, and has left a young family behind without a dad.


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    #18
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    but of course, how dare I speak out with a different opinion, we all have to be nice today cos he died, like it changes something all of a sudden.

    There is a time and place for everything. Sometimes you have to be capable of just not speaking out.
    What about all the other people in Ireland who passed away today, where's their condolence? But they were just common folk, not some glorious politician we can all circle jerk about and pretend we knew and liked.

    People are aware of public figures. You cannot have a plausible thread about people that others are unaware of, whatever their merit.


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    #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    irishh_bob wrote: »
    could your post not have waited untill tomorrow at least ?

    By tomorrow history will be rewritten


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    #20
    JonathanAnon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭JonathanAnon


    Deleted User wrote: »
    By tomorrow history will be rewritten

    Just came on to post something similar.. RTE have already started blaming "the international crisis" for the situation that he was in.. Disappointed in Pat Kenny..


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    #21
    aislingirwin93
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭aislingirwin93


    The nasty comments of some people on here never cease to amaze me. 'won't be sorry to see the back of him' sorry, did you know him personally? Who gives you the right to post comments so disrespectful on here? He has two teenage daughters, how would you feel if your Father died at the mere age of 52 after a long public battle with cancer? Your comments are nasty and uncalled for and unwanted. Go start your own thread of hatred, because I'm sure it'll be just you.

    RIP Brian.


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    #22
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,734 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    I have to agree with Cookie_Monster on this one..

    While on a personal level I am sorry for his family's loss and he's died very young after a painful illness which no one deserves etc etc... so on THAT level, RIP

    At the same time that doesn't change his actions while in office and the decisions he made which have plunged this country into a downward spiral it will probably not recover from for a long long time.

    Just because the man has died today doesn't change or erase or "make good" any of that - and it is those other posters who are now "outraged" that someones DARES point that out who should be ashamed of themselves when yesterday and no doubt tomorrow they themselves were expressing the same opinions!

    Of course this is the same Irish people/country that gave one Charles Haughey a hero's funeral after everything HE'D done to the country too so I can't say I'm surprised - more bemused really. :rolleyes:


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    #23
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    JonathanAnon wrote: »
    Just came on to post something similar.. RTE have already started blaming "the international crisis" for the situation that he was in.. Disappointed in Pat Kenny..

    How do you think Pat Kenny's lasted so long in Montrose? I'm not so shocked to hear this revisionism.


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    #24
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    ardmacha wrote: »
    There is a time and place for everything. Sometimes you have to be capable of just not speaking out.
    So he should just put up with endless proagandist tributes to Lenihan? The man was Finance Minister through the period which has led us into two hundred million euro plus of debt and has effectively destroyed our republic.

    Are we championing Cowen and Aherne as paragons of virtue and great servants to the nation today, or is it business as usual with those cretins because they havent died? I think I can guess.

    Fair enough if people want to express personal condolences to the man, but he was no hero, he was a failed politician that did irreperable damage to our country. Dying does not absolve him of anything.


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    #25
    Denalihighway
    Registered Users Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭Denalihighway


    lxflyer wrote: »
    It's not that you have a different opinion - thankfully we all differ about things in life.

    It's how and when you express it. I would happen to think that your timing is (to say the least) very poorly ill-judged, and that you could have been far more tactful, rather than charging in like a bull in a china shop.

    Brian Lenihan's deeds while he was Minister for Finance will be judged over time, and he may well be found to have made wrong decisions. But frankly a discussion of that is better served elsewhere than in a thread entitled "Brian Lenihan RIP".

    As for anyone else who has died, I am sure that the people who knew them are mourning them. Brian Lenihan was a public figure and of course far more people will comment on it.

    His death is frankly shocking, given he is only 52, appeared to have recovered, and more pointedly worked throughout his illness - you may not agree with his decisions but the fact remains that he put his personal health to one side, and has left a young family behind without a dad.

    + 1

    you're missing the point Cookie Monster. The man died this morning. Yes other people died today but they weren't public figures so naturally they're not being discussed. That's reality.

    A lot of us might agree with your thoughts, but most of us will also agree that you can keep your ranting for another day and another thread.

    RIP Brian. What miserable cards you were dealt in fairness...


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    #26
    aislingirwin93
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭aislingirwin93


    Nobody ever said dying absolved him of anything, I'm sure what people are trying to say is simply have some respect. The man died a few hours ago, let it rest for today. People are upset.


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    #27
    Flibbles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Flibbles


    aislingirwin93 wrote: »
    Nobody ever said dying absolved him of anything, I'm sure what people are trying to say is simply have some respect. The man died a few hours ago, let it rest for today. People are upset.

    There's also thousands more who've been upset for at least a year, and will remain upset for quite some time.


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    #28
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,436 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    I have to agree with Cookie_Monster on this one..

    While on a personal level I am sorry for his family's loss and he's died very young after a painful illness which no one deserves etc etc... so on THAT level, RIP

    At the same time that doesn't change his actions while in office and the decisions he made which have plunged this country into a downward spiral it will probably not recover from for a long long time.

    Just because the man has died today doesn't change or erase or "make good" any of that - and it is those other posters who are now "outraged" that someones DARES point that out who should be ashamed of themselves when yesterday and no doubt tomorrow they themselves were expressing the same opinions!

    Of course this is the same Irish people/country that gave one Charles Haughey a hero's funeral after everything HE'D done to the country too so I can't say I'm surprised - more bemused really. :rolleyes:

    All fair enough, but was it necessary to say these things today with Mr Lenihan not even cold.

    He was a politician. We can always argue about his policy mistakes and time in government.

    "We saw the back of him", when Fianna Fail lost the election.

    He was 52, too young to die, no matter who you are and think out of respect to his family, respect should be shown and there will be plenty of time after to analyse his career.

    Finally, Lenihan was a new minister of finance on the night of the bank guarantee and was forced into making a quick decision.

    The real fault of Ireland's problems lie with Brian Cowen, when he was Minister for Finance and Bertie Ahern was Taoiseach.


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    #29
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    DoneDL wrote: »
    RIP, never doubted his commitment or sense of public service.


    Service to who ? Anglo and Sean Quinn?? Dont rewrite history we the people got screwed.

    RIP Lenihan is fine but if people make comments about how great he supposedly was then it should be fair game.

    A young man with a family died today dont try turn it into a propaganda show. That would be a disgrace.


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    #30
    Tayla
    Registered Users Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭Tayla


    At the end of the day I find it absolutely amazing that people can speak about Brian the way they do, that he was so great and he did a good job despite his illness etc.

    I'm sorry but I can't help but think of how different things could be if this had happened a few years earlier, I have never said anything like that before in my life but this man and Fianna Fail have caused me to feel like that, How when not even a century had gone by since they were formed did they go from wanting to do what was best for the country to the greedy robbing pushovers to Europe they became?


    I had a family member who committed suicide as a result of the effects of this recession on his life, he tried and tried to get a job and nothing, there was no help for him, do you think Brian Lenihan would have read a newspaper and given him a second thought? Of course he wouldn't have.

    This man and his decisions have changed most peoples lives in Ireland for the worst but yet only the people who don't want to say anything bad about him are allowed to speak.

    He caused the anger against him, he's the reason some of us are still fuming at him, we're not just evil people who don't give a s**t that someone has died but he is the one that caused it.

    I'm sorry if my opinion sickens some of you but to be honest it genuinely sickens me that for the next few days we'll have to listen to what a great man he was.


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    #31
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    Why do you say this
    murpho999 wrote: »

    He was 52, too young to die, no matter who you are and think out of respect to his family, respect should be shown and there will be plenty of time after to analyse his career.
    when you then just go on to say this
    Finally, Lenihan was a new minister of finance on the night of the bank guarantee and was forced into making a quick decision.

    The real fault of Ireland's problems lie with Brian Cowen, when he was Minister for Finance and Bertie Ahern was Taoiseach.
    These latter two points are two highly contestable claims. I have nothing against Brian Lenihan but he was an ineffective Finance Minister who made some really brutal decisions. He would have known that himself, wel all know that too, thats fine. If you want to suggest that nobody criticise Leniahn today, thats fine, that is understandable.

    But please do not patronise our intelligence with the above.


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