County Standing By Population

Jayop · 03-08-2015 11:01pm #1

Noticed this post in the All-Ireland thread and upon looking at it it's remarkable how close the population tallies to counties standing in football.

I'm colour coding the list to show.

cjmc wrote: »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish_counties_by_population

Division 1
Division 2
Division 3
Division 4

1 Dublin 1,273,069
2 Antrim 618,108
3 Down 531,665
4 Cork 519,032
5 Galway 250,541
6 Derry 247,132
7 Kildare 210,312
8 Limerick 191,809
9 Meath 184,135
10 Tyrone 179,000
11 Armagh 174,792
12 Donegal 161,137
13 Tipperary 158,754
14 Kerry 145,502
15 Wexford 145,320
16 Wicklow 136,640
17 Mayo 130,638
18 Louth 122,897
19 Clare 117,196
20 Waterford 113,795
22 Westmeath 86,164
23 Laois 80,559
24 Offaly 76,687
25 Cavan 73,183
26 Sligo 65,393
27 Roscommon64,065
28 Fermanagh 61,170
29 Monaghan 60,483
30 Carlow 54,612
31 Longford 39,000
32 Leitrim 31,796

As expected

5 of the top 6 counties by population are Div 1 & 2
9 of the top 12 counties by population are Div 1 & 2
The bottom 3 counties are all Division 3 & 4.
8 of the middle 16 counties are Div 2 & 3

There's counties of course punching above their weight.

Monaghan and Roscommon with the 6th and 4th lowest population in the county are in Div 1.
Fermanagh with the 5th lowest are in Div 2 and got to the last 16 in the AI this year.

And counties who have big populations but low standing.
Antrim - mainly unionist county with a big hurling culture
Kildare - No excuse, football county with 7th biggest population should be better.
Limerick - Hurling county
Tipp - Hurling county

Dirty Dingus McGee · 03-08-2015 11:12pm

I can't believe Cavan has that many people living in it.

Jayop · 03-08-2015 11:13pm

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I can't believe Cavan has that many people living in it.

I thought it would be more. There's a ton of decent sized towns in cavan, but the county town is pretty small.

LeinsterDub · 03-08-2015 11:16pm

What about London?

Jayop · 03-08-2015 11:18pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

What about London?

Computer says no.

davegrohl48 · 03-08-2015 11:20pm

Nice work. The numbers for Tyrone and Armagh seem high.
The only aspect that smaller counties can compete in is skill and teamwork.
How many top natural athletes in counties with less than 80k? You cannot turn anyone into an MDMA or James ODonoghue. Requires a base level of natural speed and power. Training just brings you closer to your genetic ceiling of improvement.

Road-Hog · 03-08-2015 11:21pm

Nobody obviously lives in Kilkenny?

Not listed at all??

timmyntc · 03-08-2015 11:21pm

It's kind of instinctive to look at those results and go "More population = Better players etc." however as we should all know correlation != causation. Granted there is *some* relation between population and football standing, however this could be any number of things. Could be that more people generally leads to a larger playing population within the county, or perhaps its the greater financial support that follows from a larger base of supporters?

In some cases this proves definitely that the structures that you set in place for youth players and training facilities have a big impact, as how else could teams like Kerry or Mayo punch consistenly 'above their weight'? It certainly ain't something in the water.

davegrohl48 · 03-08-2015 11:22pm

Road-Hog wrote: »

Nobody obviously lives in Kilkenny?

Not listed at all??

They only play football at junior level.

Jayop · 03-08-2015 11:22pm

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Nice work. The numbers for Tyrone and Armagh seem high.
The only aspect that smaller counties can compete in is skill and teamwork.
How many top natural athletes in counties with less than 80k? You cannot turn anyone into an MDMA or James ODonoghue. Requires a base level of natural speed and power. Training just brings you closer to your genetic ceiling of improvement.

Monaghan are really amazing in that regard. They've managed to unearth a couple of super talented footballers, 1/2 of whom would grace any side, but they've got a system and a physicality which has enabled them to leapfrog 25/26 counties.

sabhail · 03-08-2015 11:22pm

So 3 of bottom six got to quarters.,..

Really interesting table. If pop was all tho, Dublin would win lots more..

You'd wonder is there some way of providing coaches say on basis of x coaches per head of population or playing population... .. Prob completely impractical and costly tho.

tradition plays a huge part too..not to mention lucky? Co incidence of great players and coaches.

If you were on county board of division 3 etc tho surely you'd be looking at could ties currently operating above their weight..

askU · 03-08-2015 11:23pm

32 counties........Wheres kilkenny?

Jayop · 03-08-2015 11:24pm

sabhail wrote: »

So three of bottom six got to quarters ..one to semi...

Two of the bottom 6 got to Quarters. None are in a semi yet.

Jayop · 03-08-2015 11:25pm

askU wrote: »

32 counties........Wheres kilkenny?

They don't have a senior county football team.

davegrohl48 · 03-08-2015 11:25pm

Jayop wrote: »

Monaghan are really amazing in that regard. They've managed to unearth a couple of super talented footballers, 1/2 of whom would grace any side, but they've got a system and a physicality which has enabled them to leapfrog 25/26 counties.

Yes agreed on that. In terms of physical side they've hit the weights and protein shakes. But they lack the pace of Dublin/Kerry/Mayo.
But their dedication to being better team wise and skill wise is admirable.

Jayop · 03-08-2015 11:26pm

timmyntc wrote: »

It's kind of instinctive to look at those results and go "More population = Better players etc." however as we should all know correlation != causation. Granted there is *some* relation between population and football standing, however this could be any number of things. Could be that more people generally leads to a larger playing population within the county, or perhaps its the greater financial support that follows from a larger base of supporters?

In some cases this proves definitely that the structures that you set in place for youth players and training facilities have a big impact, as how else could teams like Kerry or Mayo punch consistenly 'above their weight'? It certainly ain't something in the water.

History and tradition count for a lot as well as playing numbers and financial resources. I wouldn't think there's too many counties in Ireland that outspend Kerry or Mayo, and probably not too many with bigger pools of players.

K-9 · 03-08-2015 11:27pm

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Nice work. The numbers for Tyrone and Armagh seem high.
The only aspect that smaller counties can compete in is skill and teamwork.
How many top natural athletes in counties with less than 80k? You cannot turn anyone into an MDMA or James ODonoghue. Requires a base level of natural speed and power. Training just brings you closer to your genetic ceiling of improvement.

Obligatory mention of Unionist populations not mentioned.

In that regard Fermanagh are doing great stuff the last 15 years or so. 1 Semi final, 2 quarters and played in Division 1.

OldMrBrennan83 · 03-08-2015 11:28pm

This post has been deleted.

Jayop · 03-08-2015 11:29pm

K-9 wrote: »

Obligatory mention of Unionist populations not mentioned.

In that regard Fermanagh are doing great stuff the last 15 years or so. 1 Semi final, 2 quarters and played in Division 1.

TBF I did mention it in the OP but only for Antrim. I think there's 4 of the northern 6 with bigger nationalist numbers anyway and only Antrim and Down are really heavily effected by that. Antrim should still have the population to cope but I guess they're way more of a hurling county.

Down have a great history so they've been fine.

OldMrBrennan83 · 03-08-2015 11:29pm

This post has been deleted.

cj maxx · 03-08-2015 11:30pm

Jayop wrote: »

Noticed this post in the All-Ireland thread and upon looking at it it's remarkable how close the population tallies to counties standing in football.

I'm colour coding the list to show.

Division 1
Division 2
Division 3
Division 4

1 Dublin 1,273,069
2 Antrim 618,108
3 Down 531,665
4 Cork 519,032
5 Galway 250,541
6 Derry 247,132
7 Kildare 210,312
8 Limerick 191,809
9 Meath 184,135
10 Tyrone 179,000
11 Armagh 174,792
12 Donegal 161,137
13 Tipperary 158,754
14 Kerry 145,502
15 Wexford 145,320
16 Wicklow 136,640
17 Mayo 130,638
18 Louth 122,897
19 Clare 117,196
20 Waterford 113,795
22 Westmeath 86,164
23 Laois 80,559
24 Offaly 76,687
25 Cavan 73,183
26 Sligo 65,393
27 Roscommon64,065
28 Fermanagh 61,170
29 Monaghan 60,483
30 Carlow 54,612
31 Longford 39,000
32 Leitrim 31,796

As expected

5 of the top 6 counties by population are Div 1 & 2
9 of the top 12 counties by population are Div 1 & 2
The bottom 3 counties are all Division 3 & 4.
8 of the middle 16 counties are Div 2 & 3

There's counties of course punching above their weight.

Monaghan and Roscommon with the 6th and 4th lowest population in the county are in Div 1.
Fermanagh with the 5th lowest are in Div 2 and got to the last 16 in the AI this year.

And counties who have big populations but low standing.
Antrim - mainly unionist county with a big hurling culture
Kildare - No excuse, football county with 7th biggest population should be better.
Limerick - Hurling county
Tipp - Hurling county

Thanks
With all the talk about championship systems it shows how much size/ population plays in it .
Apart from Kerry it seem !!

Jayop · 03-08-2015 11:30pm

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

21 is missing.

OldMrBrennan83 · 03-08-2015 11:32pm

This post has been deleted.

askU · 03-08-2015 11:34pm

Jayop wrote: »

They don't have a senior county football team.

should be 31 counties then?

davegrohl48 · 03-08-2015 11:36pm

cjmc wrote: »

Thanks
With all the talk about championship systems it shows how much size/ population plays in it .
Apart from Kerry it seem !!

Kerry and Mayo have massive participation unlike a county like Kildare.
There are no Knockmores or Garrymores or Ballintubbers in most counties. Knockmore has no town to speak of neither Garrymore. Aghamore no real town just a village.

askU · 03-08-2015 11:38pm

Jayop wrote: »

21 is missing.

who is 21 meant be?

Jayop · 03-08-2015 11:39pm

askU wrote: »

should be 31 counties then?

There is. I just deleted Kilkenny at 21 and it was a cut and paste list. Colouring it in was plenty time consuming without reordering a load of numbers.

Jayop · 03-08-2015 11:39pm

askU wrote: »

who is 21 meant be?

Kilkenny

K-9 · 03-08-2015 11:39pm

Jayop wrote: »

TBF I did mention it in the OP but only for Antrim. I think there's 4 of the northern 6 with bigger nationalist numbers anyway and only Antrim and Down are really heavily effected by that. Antrim should still have the population to cope but I guess they're way more of a hurling county.

Down have a great history so they've been fine.

Significant minorities though.

Hurling doesn't have as big an impact as I thought, Offaly the only hurling county in the bottom 10.

Jayop · 03-08-2015 11:43pm

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Kerry and Mayo have massive participation unlike a county like Kildare.
There are no Knockmores or Garrymores or Ballintubbers in most counties. Knockmore has no town to speak of neither Garrymore. Aghamore no real town just a village.

Some of the club teams are just massive anomalies. Bridgets in Roscommon and even Cross in Armagh.

Jayop · 03-08-2015 11:46pm

K-9 wrote: »

Significant minorities though.

Hurling doesn't have as big an impact as I thought, Offaly the only hurling county in the bottom 10.

Agreed on both counts.

Ulster football is strong despite the significant minorites who don't support it, but I suppose with the counties being large the size of the potential sponsors is less limited by the religious divide.

By that I mean that, for example, Armagh's sponsor Rainbow communications still has 175k customers to earn money from that it can afford to sponsor the team from regardless of whether they follow GAA or not.

County Standing By Population

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