The 2015 All Ireland Senior Football Championship

Fr Tod Umptious · 03-08-2015 8:00pm

Just bought my ticket for Saturday.
e30 for lower Davin.

Have to say that's good value for two on paper good quality quarter finals and a junior final.

Seeing as I paid e20 to stand up on Hyde park.

homerjay2005 · 03-08-2015 8:06pm

Is the junior final definately fixed for Croke Park?

Jayop · 03-08-2015 8:09pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Just bought my ticket for Saturday.
e30 for lower Davin.

Have to say that's good value for two on paper good quality quarter finals and a junior final.

Seeing as I paid e20 to stand up on Hyde park.

€20 to stand in the Hyde and see fecking nothing. I had two kids with me and they didn't see any of the match.

DoctaDee · 03-08-2015 8:25pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Just bought my ticket for Saturday.
e30 for lower Davin.

Have to say that's good value for two on paper good quality quarter finals and a junior final.

Seeing as I paid e20 to stand up on Hyde park.

Just snagged 2 tickets in 318 Davin on a black ops recon for Dublin .. I could tell ya but ..

Dyr · 03-08-2015 8:34pm

K-9 wrote: »

Yeah, the current structures are really working.

The current structures give the likes of Carlow or Waterford no chance and watching them take 20 or 30 point hammerings is sadistic stuff! The Qualifiers are no good to them either.

I don't think either of them have ever won an all Ireland so its not like the their problems are the current set up of the championship

Minnows will be minnows not matter what size pool they're in

OldMrBrennan83 · 03-08-2015 8:40pm

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OldMrBrennan83 · 03-08-2015 8:44pm

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seligehgit · 03-08-2015 8:48pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Is the junior final definately fixed for Croke Park?

Yes it's the first match up at 2.

harpsman · 03-08-2015 8:51pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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How does every other sport survive with different levels based on standard. Any county that is way out of their depth but turn their nose up at a 2nd tier championship deserve no sympathy. Like every other sport and every county there would be promotion to the top level which gives the mid ranking teams plenty to play for.

zetecescort · 03-08-2015 8:54pm

harpsman wrote: »

How does every other sport survive with different levels based on standard. Any county that is way out of their depth but turn their nose up at a 2nd tier championship deserve no sympathy. Like every other sport and every county there would be promotion to the top level which gives the mid ranking teams plenty to play for.

Football and Hurling are played in every county with Junior, Intermediate and Senior competitions with promotion and relegation between each grade. Can't see whats stopping them doing this for Inter county.

OldMrBrennan83 · 03-08-2015 8:57pm

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harpsman · 03-08-2015 8:58pm

I think the McGuinness plan with one or two changes is the best way foreward and every team starts the year competing for Sam. It also means every league game is meaningful. The only change i would make is that the provincial champions would be seeded 1-4.

K-9 · 03-08-2015 8:59pm

Bambi wrote: »

I don't think either of them have ever won an all Ireland so its not like the their problems are the current set up of the championship

Minnows will be minnows not matter what size pool they're in

It doesn't really concern Dublin or a Kerry, they'll win AI's anyway so their opinions can be dismissed.

OldMrBrennan83 · 03-08-2015 9:02pm

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Fireball07 · 03-08-2015 9:06pm

The main problem I have is that the real hammerings come when the top 4 or 5 teams play anybody outside of that.

It's not just the bottom 16 teams that are getting hammered, it's every team outside the elite.

Say you split it into a two-tiered Championship, we'd still have Kildare getting smashed by Kerry. We'd still have Dublin thumping pretty much every team.

I'm from Limerick and over the next couple of years, I think we could give the likes of Tyrone or Galway a pretty decent game if we continue to build. I don't think we'd stand a chance against the very biggest teams but at least a provincial final is something to aim at... I'm against change tbh. It's not going to stop hammerings in the Championship, and I don't think players in the weaker counties want it. As a fan of one of those counties, I certainly don't.

homerjay2005 · 03-08-2015 9:08pm

seligehgit wrote: »

Yes it's the first match up at 2.

Is there a hurling semi final on Sunday or what's the reason why the games are on Saturday?

OldMrBrennan83 · 03-08-2015 9:09pm

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K-9 · 03-08-2015 9:12pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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So do nothing.

Sure it took 14 years for them to change a simple a thing as a 6 day turn around in the Qualifiers.

You'd still have the provincials and leagues so there's a lot of red herrings thrown about here.

Counties playing nearly all their games from January to April is stupidity.

Dublin playing Longford or Kerry Waterford is pointless for everybody. Run off a mini Munster, Connaught and Leinster Championship thus giving teams competitive games before they join the championship proper. The likes of Louth or Clare would benefit from more games.

This isn't inventing the wheel and Carlow aren't going to win an AI from it, so let's do nothing.

Jayop · 03-08-2015 9:16pm

K-9 wrote: »

So do nothing.

Sure it took 14 years for them to change a simple a thing as a 6 day turn around in the Qualifiers.

You'd still have the provincials and leagues so there's a lot of red herrings thrown about here.

Counties playing nearly all their games from January to April is stupidity.

Dublin playing Longford or Kerry Waterford is pointless for everybody. Run off a mini Munster, Connaught and Leinster Championship thus giving teams competitive games before they join the championship proper. The likes of Louth or Clare would benefit from more games.

This isn't inventing the wheel and Carlow aren't going to win an AI from it, so let's do nothing.

There's a happy medium that's already been outlined. IMO no county should start the year with no chance of winning the AI. If we put them all into 8 groups of 4 then play them off against each other. The top two teams progress to the last 16 for Sam and the bottom two teams go into a tier 2 comp.

At least at the start of the summer everyone has a chance and you'll still have some teams like Fermanagh getting into the last 16 and making a run of it.

Edit: Also every team will have meaningful group games. The div 3 & 4 teams should be well matched and it'll give the div 2 teams a chance to test themselves against the big boys.

OldMrBrennan83 · 03-08-2015 9:16pm

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K-9 · 03-08-2015 9:22pm

Fireball07 wrote: »

The main problem I have is that the real hammerings come when the top 4 or 5 teams play anybody outside of that.

It's not just the bottom 16 teams that are getting hammered, it's every team outside the elite.

Say you split it into a two-tiered Championship, we'd still have Kildare getting smashed by Kerry. We'd still have Dublin thumping pretty much every team.

I'm from Limerick and over the next couple of years, I think we could give the likes of Tyrone or Galway a pretty decent game if we continue to build. I don't think we'd stand a chance against the very biggest teams but at least a provincial final is something to aim at... I'm against change tbh. It's not going to stop hammerings in the Championship, and I don't think players in the weaker counties want it. As a fan of one of those counties, I certainly don't.

I'd say there is 3 tiers going on League and Championship over the last few years. A top 7 or so at a push, a second tier of the bulk of counties and a bottom 8 or so.

Your own county would have been in that bottom 8 not that long ago, Wexford, Sligo, Fermanagh, as well. Donegal and Monaghan moved up to the top tier, that will happen in any system.

I suppose where I come from it is trying to address the inherent drawbacks in a Cup system, that has a second chance for the big boys, but doesn't deliver consistently for others.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 03-08-2015 9:41pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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I'm not sure it would stop teams from entering.Do clubs teams not bother if they relegated from Senior to intermediate?

If I was a player and was told the league was gone and all football was the be a league based championship starting in April and you play again teams of your own level during the summer I'd be more enthused.

You'd avoid the drudgery of the training in **** weather in the winter and you'd have a reasonable chance of winning games and competing for a tangible reward.

Inter county football outside of being an advertisement and money spinner for the game is not all that important to the GAA as a whole as if it ceased to exist people would still play for their clubs which is where 99% of players play.So if inter county GAA's main purpose is to act as an advertisement for the game and get as much attention for the association as possible in the media then it should be organised to be as entertaining as possible which means having more even contests and less hammerings. 95% of this seasons championship games have been played and the championship is only starting for real now, that is a serious indictment of the current structures.

harpsman · 03-08-2015 9:44pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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Check out the play off finals in England. Seems to workin ok there same as it wotks everywhere else.

OldMrBrennan83 · 03-08-2015 9:45pm

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homerjay2005 · 03-08-2015 9:59pm

DoctaDee wrote: »

Just to clarify the fundraising for those that may think it's an aul fella waving a tin outside half 10 mass on a Sunday

That's a one off that hasn't even been spent yet. When it will be spent, it will be to pay for a training facility.

The rest as you say comes from the tins at Sunday mass and a few dinner dances here and there .

As ciaran Whelan said last night, It's time the other county boards started stepping up to the plate and stop whinging

cj maxx · 03-08-2015 10:22pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish_counties_by_population

DoctaDee · 03-08-2015 10:23pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

That's a one off that hasn't even been spent yet. When it will be spent, it will be to pay for a training facility.

The rest as you say comes from the tins at Sunday mass and a few dinner dances here and there .

As ciaran Whelan said last night, It's time the other county boards started stepping up to the plate and stop whinging

Oh agree absolutely regards other counties stepping up my point was to dispel any impression that the fundraising was a small scale venture undertaken by individuals. You'll also see a number greyhound/race meetings in support of the county coffers

In fact Brolly gave Pat Spillane a backhanded compliment some weeks back congratulating him and others on raising over a million for Kerrys training fund ..Pat waved it off probably not wanting to have it as a topic of conversation

ProudDUB · 03-08-2015 10:38pm

harpsman wrote: »

How does every other sport survive with different levels based on standard. Any county that is way out of their depth but turn their nose up at a 2nd tier championship deserve no sympathy. Like every other sport and every county there would be promotion to the top level which gives the mid ranking teams plenty to play for.

You can't compare other sports, that have professional, paid athletes to an amateur one. GAA players aren't getting paid. They haven't signed a contract that obligates them to participate in their sport, regardless of how their team does. The only thing that makes GAA players want to play at all, is their own personal motivation. That is going to go out the window if they are made play in a second tier competition.

The weaker counties already face huge problems getting players to commit to inter county duty. Rural depopulation and emigration is hitting them hard. Lads are either going off to the States for the summer, or going off traveling to Australia for a year, or they are having to leave the country to find work, or they are moving up to Dublin for work/college and can't or won't commit to traveling home to train 3-4 times a week.

The ones that do commit, are doing so because of the dream of the big day out in Croker. It may sound patronizing, but its true. They want to be the county that everyone is talking about, like Westmeath were when they beat Meath. Or even better, be there when their county gets it structures together and starts making real progress, such as Monaghan have done over the past couple of years.

If the country is split into different competitions & you remove even the possibility of their getting to play in the All Ireland championship, there is no way that players will be as motivated as they are now, to make all of the sacrifices that they are currently making. The weaker counties will then just get weaker and weaker, as more and more players drift away from the GAA. The 2 or 3 counties that get promoted "up" into the All Ireland A championship, will be on the receiving end of hammerings like Kerry doled out to Kildare yesterday. And what will that solve or accomplish?

ArmaniJeanss · 03-08-2015 10:49pm

harpsman wrote: »

How does every other sport survive with different levels based on standard. Any county that is way out of their depth but turn their nose up at a 2nd tier championship deserve no sympathy. Like every other sport and every county there would be promotion to the top level which gives the mid ranking teams plenty to play for.

GAA are inherently distrustful of promotion/relegation as eventually 'a wrong team' gets relegated and there are immediate calls to rectify the system (generally seen in the hurling league where they seem to redo it twice a decade).
God forbid a Cork or a Galway spend anytime outside the main football championship, or worst case scenario eventually Dublin and its cash cow have a mare year and finished in the 16th spot in Tier1. So the following year the championship takes place without Dublin? Ain't going to be allowed.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 03-08-2015 11:08pm

ProudDUB wrote: »

You can't compare other sports, that have professional, paid athletes to an amateur one. GAA players aren't getting paid. They haven't signed a contract that obligates them to participate in their sport, regardless of how their team does. The only thing that makes GAA players want to play at all, is their own personal motivation. That is going to go out the window if they are made play in a second tier competition.

The weaker counties already face huge problems getting players to commit to inter county duty. Rural depopulation and emigration is hitting them hard. Lads are either going off to the States for the summer, or going off traveling to Australia for a year, or they are having to leave the country to find work, or they are moving up to Dublin for work/college and can't or won't commit to traveling home to train 3-4 times a week.

The ones that do commit, are doing so because of the dream of the big day out in Croker. It may sound patronizing, but its true. They want to be the county that everyone is talking about, like Westmeath were when they beat Meath. Or even better, be there when their county gets it structures together and starts making real progress, such as Monaghan have done over the past couple of years.

If the country is split into different competitions & you remove even the possibility of their getting to play in the All Ireland championship, there is no way that players will be as motivated as they are now, to make all of the sacrifices that they are currently making. The weaker counties will then just get weaker and weaker, as more and more players drift away from the GAA. The 2 or 3 counties that get promoted "up" into the All Ireland A championship, will be on the receiving end of hammerings like Kerry doled out to Kildare yesterday. And what will that solve or accomplish?

Surely winning promotion to the top tier in a big match in Croke Park that has real meaning for the future of the county would be a big day out.

I remember the reaction when Monaghan beat Meath in the division 2 league final years ago if people got used to the idea second tier in championship football would have real meaning.

Players leave during the summer because the one tangible aim some team have is getting to a provincial final as soon as that is gone they go as they know they won't win the all Ireland .If you had divisions every team would have something to play for an would increase motivation.

We are running a championship currently on the basis that something might happen once a decade.

A continuation of the current structure would further demotivate players from weaker counties in my opinion to commit as all they have nothing real to aim for.Also the current set up is leading to the increasing defensive style of play that a lot of teams use as teams have to practice it in order to deal with the likelihood of running into a big team at some stage so they don't get humiliated, if anything that is as big a de-motivation to commit to playing inter county football as anything.

The 2015 All Ireland Senior Football Championship

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