DCM 2012 Graduates - the next step

DOCO12 · 14-07-2013 7:48pm

New runner wrote: »

Am I the only one who feels I'm running really bad at moment, seriously can't believe I did a 1.40 HM at end March (7.38m) pace, really feel cud hardly run 1 mile at that pace at moment. Every run, even recovery feels like an effort, quote]

I can def agree with a few of ye here who's finding things allot tougher. Over the last few weeks even as you said New Runner the recovery runs have been a chore, I think sometimes are bodies and minds just need a bit of a break from it all. After my massage last week my legs finally this weekend are feeling better now so hopefully ill reach my targets in Menos session this week not like last weeks disaster. Cheers for posting Meno!

Got my 14mile lsr done yesterday at 8.43/mile, didn't think it was too warm and went without water not a good idea. I did my 5mile recovery this morn at 9.30/mile was lovely and as said above legs felt good (bar my hip Im waiting on Physio appointment) so hoping this weeks session will be a success

Anyone here do double days? If so would ye break it into two easy sessions? Or perhaps session in morn and recovery n eve?

menoscemo · 14-07-2013 8:18pm

DOCO12 wrote: »

Anyone here do double days? If so would ye break it into two easy sessions? Or perhaps session in morn and recovery n eve?

I would often do double days, generally they would be 2 easy runs but the day after a session I might do recovery in the morning and easy in the evening depending how the legs felt.

I think they are a great way to get the mileage in especially and if you can fit them around your day to day life (e.g. run into work and then back home) you don't lose a lot of time.

RedRunner · 14-07-2013 10:02pm

Meno, this week I am doing the James Hospital Liberties 6k Run on THursday. My original plan was to do this as the session for week and do an easy run on Wednesday and recovery on Friday. I'm not doing the Fingal 10k. looking at your posted plan I'm not sure if the 6k race on thursday is enough now? I could maybe add miles to thursday by doing an easy run at lunchtime plus warmup before race but unlikely to be able to do any miles after the run.

Any suggestions?

Runchick · 14-07-2013 10:16pm

Thanks for the plan meno, I'm doing a 10km in 2 weeks so I'll follow your plan as is for the next 2 weeks. I have physio on Wednesday so will have to put the session off until Thursday (assuming I'm good to do it).

On the point about doubles, I've often considered this - so run 6 times a week but over 5 days. I often wonder though if one straight 10 mile easy run is better stimulus for marathon training than 2 x 5 mile runs on the same day, or does it not really make that much difference?

menoscemo · 14-07-2013 10:20pm

RedRunner wrote: »

Meno, this week I am doing the James Hospital Liberties 6k Run on THursday. My original plan was to do this as the session for week and do an easy run on Wednesday and recovery on Friday. I'm not doing the Fingal 10k. looking at your posted plan I'm not sure if the 6k race on thursday is enough now? I could maybe add miles to thursday by doing an easy run at lunchtime plus warmup before race but unlikely to be able to do any miles after the run.

Any suggestions?

I'd say go with your original plan; just do the 6k at race pace. It is not as many miles as the wednesday session but a faster pace (and continuous...)
If you want to; just take this week as your stepback week...do your 10 mile LSR at the weekend and aim for 30-35 mile total.
You can do this weeks plan next week while the non racers are having their step back week......

menoscemo · 14-07-2013 10:22pm

Runchick wrote: »

Thanks for the plan meno, I'm doing a 10km in 2 weeks so I'll follow your plan as is for the next 2 weeks. I have physio on Wednesday so will have to put the session off until Thursday (assuming I'm good to do it).

On the point about doubles, I've often considered this - so run 6 times a week but over 5 days. I often wonder though if one straight 10 mile easy run is better stimulus for marathon training than 2 x 5 mile runs on the same day, or does it not really make that much difference?

We will generally be doing 2 10+ mile runs per week anyway (the wednesday session and the weekend long run). No other run will need to be 10+ miles.
As long as you are doing the 2 'big runs' as prescribed then it makes no difference.

Gavlor · 14-07-2013 10:24pm

docjewel wrote: »

Race Report,Rathgormack 5 mile

So after feeling pretty disappointed 2 weeks ago with my run at the Shanagrry5 mile race I didn't do a race report,in hindsight it wasnt too bad,37:03

So last night headed to t=The Comeragh mountains for some warm weather altitude training:D
The course is pretty hilly so had set myself a target of around 37:45/38:00

Not many runners entered this race(just 90) so there was always a good chance of running on your own.
For the first half mile I tucked with a group who I know would be around my time,thsi section was pretty flat befroe we hit the first uphill section,I pushed on here while & made a little headway throw the numbers before we hit a pretty staightish stretch of rolling hills for the next 1 1/2 miles.
Pretty pleased to be able to push on & pass a few runners on the uphill section while leaving the body,with its recently accquired weight:P,& gravity do the work on the downhill sections.on the last downhill section I was joined by one the local athletics club runners,I thought he'd push on with the speed he'd attacked the last downhill section with but he was very content to just sit on my shoulder.The last 1 1/2 miles is completly uphill,there were a few runners strung out ahead,a narrow road but was thankfully shaded.
I was still feeling pretty fresh at this stage so pushed on as best I could,started to close the gap on the runner ahead while opening a gap between the lad on my shoulder as well.
Hit the 4 mile mark still heading uphill & still feeling pretty good,had passed the runner ahead & now had set ny sights on a group of 3 while the lad behind had made up some ground on me while I hadstopped/walked at the water stop.
The group of 3 ahead was slowly breaking up,passed the 1st guy at the final bend for home which was a tough uphill section & with the sun blinding me it was impossible to actualy see where the finish line was.Passe the 2nd guy in the group but had my running buddy on my shoulder again,I really thought he'd catch me here but it was a matter of emptying the tanks & see what happened with about 0.3 mile to go.
Crossed the line in 37:27 with my nemisis for the night just 4 seconds behind,a good nights work.

Talking to a few runners that had ran the practically flat Dungarvan GSK 5 mile last Friday night,they seeemed to be between 1:30 & 2:00 minutes slower last night which gives an indication of what kind race it was.
Pretty pleased with the effort last night,looking forward to a few more tough 5 mile races over the next few weeks.

Mile 1|Mile2|Mile 3|Mile 4|Mile5
7:22|6:57|7:29|7:55|7:44

Nice running. Give me a shout the next time you're doing a local race

Runchick · 14-07-2013 10:32pm

menoscemo wrote: »

We will generally be doing 2 10+ mile runs per week anyway (the wednesday session and the weekend long run). No other run will need to be 10+ miles.
As long as you are doing the 2 'big runs' as prescribed then it makes no difference.

I'm actually surprised at that. I thought at the peak of the plan I'd be running a few easy 10 milers on top of the sessions to make up the mileage, but hey my last training plan was P&D where anything under 8 miles wasn't worth getting out of bed for :P

menoscemo · 14-07-2013 10:41pm

Runchick wrote: »

I'm actually surprised at that. I thought at the peak of the plan I'd be running a few easy 10 milers on top of the sessions to make up the mileage, but hey my last training plan was P&D where anything under 8 miles wasn't worth getting out of bed for :P

When we reach peak week; the session will be about 14 miles

and the Long run 20-22.
That's about 35 miles between 2 runs meaning we only need to make up 15-25 miles over the other 5 days, in those circumstances I don't see the need for another 10+ mile run. I think with the session and the long run you will be getting all the endurance you need.

I have done the P&D plan myself (both 55 and 70) and one thing I don;t like is it's rest days. I am not one for cross training, much prefer to run easy every day.

Runchick · 14-07-2013 10:51pm

menoscemo wrote: »

When we reach peak week; the session will be about 14 miles and the Long run 20-22.
That's about 35 miles between 2 runs meaning we only need to make up 15-25 miles over the other 5 days, in those circumstances I don't see the need for another 10+ mile run. I think with the session and the long run you will be getting all the endurance you need.

I have done the P&D plan myself (both 55 and 70) and one thing I don;t like is it's rest days. I am not one for cross training, much prefer to run easy every day.

Sounds like a better balance tbh. You basically want us running 6 days rather than 5, which suits me anyway...I suppose the doubles is a good option when 5 days is all we can do. (my neighbours already think I run constantly - wait til they see me heading out twice on the same day - that'll give them something to talk about :eek:).

menoscemo · 14-07-2013 11:01pm

Runchick wrote: »

Sounds like a better balance tbh. You basically want us running 6 days rather than 5, which suits me anyway...I suppose the doubles is a good option when 5 days is all we can do. (my neighbours already think I run constantly - wait til they see me heading out twice on the same day - that'll give them something to talk about :eek:).

Yeah; run 6 days but obviously if you do a couple of doubles on your easy days you will get away with 5. Unless of course you want to run more than 60 miles on peak weeks

I get the feeling Docjewel might be doing 7 days with doubles included :pac:

Mrs Docjewel · 14-07-2013 11:21pm

menoscemo wrote: »

Yeah; run 6 days but obviously if you do a couple of doubles on your easy days you will get away with 5. Unless of course you want to run more than 60 miles on peak weeks
I get the feeling Docjewel might be doing 7 days with doubles included :pac:

:eek::eek:::rolleyes:

blockic · 14-07-2013 11:45pm

menoscemo wrote: »

I have done the P&D plan myself (both 55 and 70) and one thing I don;t like is it's rest days. I am not one for cross training, much prefer to run easy every day.

Ah man, I heart the rest days!

Deedee2012 · 15-07-2013 6:01pm

Hi all, not being doing any posting lately, but have been lurking here and following everyones logs. Life just seems to be too busy to run and post.
Have been tipping away trying to get the mileage in. I did the Achill half last week, OMG is all I can say. I knew it was supposed to be hilly..........I didn't know it was THAT hilly. I did the DCM half last year when I was in better shape than I am now in 2.10, so I knew it was going to take me longer than that, I was on for 2.10 until I got to mile 8. I got a stitch on both sides at the same time and then my back kind of went into spasm joing up the two stitches. It was like a tight band squeezing the whole of my torso. Made breathing an ordeal so the last five miles were torture. Finished up at 2.21 but was just glad to finish at all. Major drinking session and the worst hangover of my life followed thereafter.
Training away for DCM 13 anyway. Following a plan done up by Raycun, which fits in the club sessions that I do, so I'm not constantly messing with the plan trying to fit stuff in. It's not a huge mileage plan compared to what some of you guys do, but it's a fair step up from HH1 from last year so hope to take a chunk off last years time. Not that bothered with the race series this year, I think I'll join in when it gets to the 10 miles and the half of course.
Trying to fit in the runs in around life at the moment in the worst bit not the actual running of them. Did a gorgeous 12 miles yesterday from Tallaght up to the Bohernabreena resevoir, a loop of the top lake and back down. Anyone who is familiar with that area should give that one a go. Loads of runners out, hilly without being too hilly and really lovely views. (tripped over a rock and took a nosedive into some thorny bushes and nettles, one full leg ripped to shreds and second half of run was ran with blood running down my leg, thats the end of my skirt wearing in the good weather :-))

Runchick · 15-07-2013 6:12pm

Hey Deedee great to see you posting again!

docjewel · 15-07-2013 10:46pm

Gavlor wrote: »

Nice running. Give me a shout the next time you're doing a local race

Next one on the agenda Ballymacarbry 5 on Friday Week

RedRunner · 16-07-2013 12:01am

And I thought the 10 in 10 people down in sixmilebridge achieved something special (which they did of course) but what about this?:eek:

http://www.annettefredskov.dk/about-366-marathons-in-365-days/

Murph_D · 16-07-2013 12:43am

RedRunner wrote: »

And I thought the 10 in 10 people down in sixmilebridge achieved something special (which they did of course) but what about this?:eek:

http://www.annettefredskov.dk/about-366-marathons-in-365-days/

That kind of thing is just too mad. I doubt if there is much joy to be had. Such a caper. Impressive athletically, but hardly about running on any kind of normal level.

DOCO12 · 16-07-2013 10:02pm

Managed to get a physio appointment for this eve so opted to do the session today instead of tomo as I'm usually sore after physio.

The aim with this one was keep it around 7.22min/Miles.
1st rep: 14.41 = 7.21/mile
2nd rep: 14.41 = 7.21/mile
3rd rep: 14.54 = 7.27/mile
Total Miles: 10

The first rep felt the toughest, was feeling excellent in the final rep and made such a silly mistake. Id the virtual partner on and would have sworn it was saying I was ahead all along, so much so that I'd plenty left in the tank when I finished the rep. Was pretty chuffed with myself until I went home and checked it couldn't believe I'd read the screen wrong.:mad: Tried to upload my session there to see the mile splits but it wont upload.

So had my physio session this afternoon to try get the tightness in my hip sorted. She said that my hip is just slowly breaking down from all the mileage. Rehab for this is strengthening exercises and wants me to only run four days a week for the next two weeks

After the length of time I was out after DCM last year I'm determined to do the exercises religiously. However cutting down to four days is putting a huge dent in my mileage plans. Good job I didn't mention my desire to start double days to her

So I'm thinking Ill do the lsr as planned. Trying to plan then whats best for my other two runs, do my 5mile recovery tomo and perhaps and easy run another day? Have to be honest and say it will be hard to not try get another sneaky one in :P

Runchick · 16-07-2013 10:47pm

Hey DOCO12 I have physio tomorrow and hoping not to be told something similar but I suppose getting to the start line is the most important thing so I think you're doing the right thing to be following their advice. A few weeks of running 4 days may be all it takes to build the hip up again? Best of luck with it anyway and great session today!

Alanm · 16-07-2013 10:52pm

I'll start with a confession: didn't manage to do last weeks session, mostly because of the heat - had to do most of my midweek runs during the day (lunch time/run in or out of work). Should I/we attempt it regardless and just lower the planned times? I hit the weekly mileage target anyway, so was happy with the week.

I started this weeks tempo session with an estimated target of 7.00 min/mile, as usual for me, my first rep was fast at 6:50 and then the other 2 were a little slow at 7:09 and 7:07. Also did 10 miles. I'm hoping for something in the low 1:30's for the rock-n-roll half in a couple of weeks! I enjoy having these sessions planned out and deciding paces in advance - certainly my training up to now has been a little (lot) more erratic.

One other thing that's been on my mind - I've been thinking of doing those parkruns, would it be a really bad idea to do a 5k race as part of a LSR? Or even to do the 5k race on Sat and LSR on the Sunday? Would it be a bit too risky?

Doco: I know it's hard, but just think how much worse it would be if you don't follow the advice and end up completely out of action for a few weeks or even longer...

menoscemo · 16-07-2013 11:02pm

Alanm wrote: »

One other thing that's been on my mind - I've been thinking of doing those parkruns, would it be a really bad idea to do a 5k race as part of a LSR? Or even to do the 5k race on Sat and LSR on the Sunday? Would it be a bit too risky?

I wouldn't do the former but you could do the LSR the next day if you wish. Just take the LSR extra slow if you feel the race in your legs.

You'll probably get away with it at this stage of the plan but don't do it every week or anything. A few weeks down the line we'll soon be ramping up the pace of some of the long runs, so If you want to do a park run get it done in the next few weeks!!

Steroo · 17-07-2013 7:17am

Doco if the hip is giving you grief already I'd ease off a bit.. Won't upset your training at this stage. Listen to your body! I didn't ;(

sassyj · 17-07-2013 10:24am

Deedee2012 wrote: »

Hi all, not being doing any posting lately, but have been lurking here and following everyones logs. Life just seems to be too busy to run and post.
Have been tipping away trying to get the mileage in. I did the Achill half last week, OMG is all I can say. I knew it was supposed to be hilly..........I didn't know it was THAT hilly. I did the DCM half last year when I was in better shape than I am now in 2.10, so I knew it was going to take me longer than that, I was on for 2.10 until I got to mile 8. I got a stitch on both sides at the same time and then my back kind of went into spasm joing up the two stitches. It was like a tight band squeezing the whole of my torso. Made breathing an ordeal so the last five miles were torture. Finished up at 2.21 but was just glad to finish at all. Major drinking session and the worst hangover of my life followed thereafter.
Training away for DCM 13 anyway. Following a plan done up by Raycun, which fits in the club sessions that I do, so I'm not constantly messing with the plan trying to fit stuff in. It's not a huge mileage plan compared to what some of you guys do, but it's a fair step up from HH1 from last year so hope to take a chunk off last years time. Not that bothered with the race series this year, I think I'll join in when it gets to the 10 miles and the half of course.
Trying to fit in the runs in around life at the moment in the worst bit not the actual running of them. Did a gorgeous 12 miles yesterday from Tallaght up to the Bohernabreena resevoir, a loop of the top lake and back down. Anyone who is familiar with that area should give that one a go. Loads of runners out, hilly without being too hilly and really lovely views. (tripped over a rock and took a nosedive into some thorny bushes and nettles, one full leg ripped to shreds and second half of run was ran with blood running down my leg, thats the end of my skirt wearing in the good weather :-))

Hi Deedee , I'm finding the same. Can't keep up with the mileage logging either. I have joined a club, and do that Tues and Thurs and what we do varies each week so I am finding it hard to pick a marathon training plan, all a bit aimless at the moment, just going out on weekend and doping an lsr, but need to find something a bit more concrete. Must ask in the club. Well done on getting through the half!

Deedee2012 · 17-07-2013 11:42am

sassyj wrote: »

Hi Deedee , I'm finding the same. Can't keep up with the mileage logging either. I have joined a club, and do that Tues and Thurs and what we do varies each week so I am finding it hard to pick a marathon training plan, all a bit aimless at the moment, just going out on weekend and doping an lsr, but need to find something a bit more concrete. Must ask in the club. Well done on getting through the half!

We do something different each week too Tues & Thurs. my plan factors in alternatives for whether I do the sessions or my own thing. I'm sure your club can sort u a plan out. If not if you want to pm me your details I'll send u mine, might give you some idea of how to fit stuff in.

DOCO12 · 17-07-2013 1:52pm

Thanks guys. In fairness 4 days running isn't too bad at all it could be a million times worse. Best of luck with physio runchick. Let us know how it goes.
Best of luck with your recovery Ste, you def deserve some good luck at this stage.

Murph_D · 17-07-2013 8:46pm

Target: 3 x 3.2k @ 5:00 (8m/mile) HR 172 (90%)

1. 5:04 (8:09) HR 167 (86%)
2. 5:07 (8:14) HR 174 (91%)
3. 5:17 (8:30) HR 178 (94%)

Verdict: It was freakin hot, and I found this pretty difficult. On a positive note, I didn't puke afterwards.

RedRunner · 17-07-2013 10:06pm

murphd77 wrote: »

Target: 3 x 3.2k @ 5:00 (8m/mile) HR 172 (90%)

1. 5:04 (8:09) HR 167 (86%)
2. 5:07 (8:14) HR 174 (91%)
3. 5:17 (8:30) HR 178 (94%)

Verdict: It was freakin hot, and I found this pretty difficult. On a positive note, I didn't puke afterwards.

Good work.Well done. Another one under the belt anyway.

Runchick · 18-07-2013 8:29am

Physio yesterday - not as bad as I thought. Calf is extremely tight and causing the sharp pain in the achilles but should be ok if I manage it properly from here on. Its absolutely in bits today, covered in bruises and very tender. However she said I could still run so I gave the session a lash this morning:

Planned HMP 8.15 - wasn't sure about this but last training cycle I trained at HMP of 8.30 and went on to race a half at 8.11 so thought 8.15 was about right.

Rep 1: 8.04 (165), 8.07 (167)
Rep 2: 8.09 (166), 8.04 (168)
Rep 3: 8.27 (165), 8.14 (168)

Very tough session, took a few short walk breaks during the last rep

. Only meant to do 10 miles but misjudged the course and finished the reps with 2.5 miles to home, 11.11m in total.

Murph_D · 18-07-2013 8:37am

Good stuff esp considering sore calf. Well done. Kicked my ass anyway

DCM 2012 Graduates - the next step

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