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The Winds of Winter (Book 6 Discussion) **SPOILERS for all books & future books**

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    #542
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,869 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    And killing Tywin Lannisters heir (except for the small detail that Jamie would have cut him to pieces) with the Lannister army sacking the city outside the door?


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    #543
    Tom.D.BJJ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭Tom.D.BJJ


    RobbingBandit wrote: »
    Ned was a Pacifist, he used Ice for ceremonial executions, he let Robert kill Rhaegar rather than do it himself, he didn't cut Jamie down from the Iron Throne when he found him upon it, he also didn't kill Aerys the man that murdered both his father and brother, need I go on...

    You know nothing, RobbingBandit.


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    #544
    podgemonster
    Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭podgemonster


    RobbingBandit wrote: »
    Ned was a Pacifist, he used Ice for ceremonial executions, he let Robert kill Rhaegar rather than do it himself, he didn't cut Jamie down from the Iron Throne when he found him upon it, he also didn't kill Aerys the man that murdered both his father and brother, need I go on...

    He used Ice when he thought it was right, when it was his duty. Following the murder of his father and brother, he joined Robert and won the Battle of Gulltown. He also defeated Jon Connington in the Battle of the Bells while Robert was injured. It wasn't Eddard's fight to take on Rhaegar, it was Roberts War and Robert should be the one to kill the Dragon, Ned was still there fighting.

    Ned arrived late to the sack of King's Landing, there was little fighting to do. The Lannisters were allies now and Ned recognized that. Taking on Jaime would have caused more bloodshed and Ned was more focused on getting his sister back. Following that Ned and Six other men then went to the Tower of Joy to take on the 3 remaining members of the Kingsguard and defeated them.

    Ned later co-lead the main battle in the Greyjoy rebellion at Pyke where Robert and him defeated Balon Greyjoy.

    No pacifist could control the entire North with such respect and honour. Ned does often try to avoid bloodshed when it is unnecessary (opposed the murder of Dany, lifted the siege on Storms End without bloodshed).

    Not having the bloodlust of Robert or the ruthlessness of Tywin doesn't not translate into a pacifist.

    He was however a traitor to his Grace, King Joffery (RIP) and deserved to die :pac::pac::pac::pac:


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    #545
    spiralism
    Registered Users Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭spiralism


    Kunkka wrote: »
    Why the **** didn't Ned demand a trial by combat!?!

    For one, he was crippled. Everyone seems to forget that he was walking with a cane after Jaime attacked him. Makes it all the crueler that Joffrey demanded him to kneel - he couldn't even bend his knee if he wanted to.
    RobbingBandit wrote: »
    South Park got it spot on with him conducting the wiener choir, he does daft pointless projects to do with Westeros rather than finishing the core text/story itself, how long after The Winds of Winter will we be waiting for the last book A Dream of Spring.

    Forever, he's not going to live that long at the rate he's going.


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    #546
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,869 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jan/30/george-rr-martin-the-winds-of-winter-publication

    Nothing will be published in 2015 apart from more illustrated crap. Sigh.


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    #547
    zl1whqvjs75cdy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    Don't want to restart the "it's his book" debate but jesus I wish he'd get the finger out.


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    #548
    Mr.Prodston
    Registered Users Posts: 16,304 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Prodston


    Thargor wrote: »
    http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jan/30/george-rr-martin-the-winds-of-winter-publication

    Nothing will be published in 2015 apart from more illustrated crap. Sigh.

    It's not encouraging news but he's always maintained that when he knows it's finished everyone else will. That's what I'm telling myself anyway to keep me sane :o


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    #549
    hidinginthebush
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,679 ✭✭✭hidinginthebush


    One of the main reasons I want him to get the books done is I don't want to have to suffer the tv show to get closure. Book readers will agree that most the side-plots already don't, and subsequently won't get enough attention in the show. Those that do are handled badly or simply glossed over.


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    #550
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,147 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    hidinginthebush wrote: »
    One of the main reasons I want him to get the books done is I don't want to have to suffer the tv show to get closure. Book readers will agree that most the side-plots already don't, and subsequently won't get enough attention in the show. Those that do are handled badly or simply glossed over.

    Personally think that's one of the reason the show is better overall.


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    #551
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Personally think that's one of the reason the show is better overall.

    In a way yes but it ruins the books so the overall impact is certainly not a good one. As it stands we don't really know which arcs are side stories and which are pivotal to the end game - the show will ruin that.


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    #552
    spiralism
    Registered Users Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭spiralism


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Personally think that's one of the reason the show is better overall.

    Maybe, they do leave a good amount of gloss out which is better for TV. That said there's certain plot elements im very surprised at the lack of (Ironborn in particular)


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    #553
    A Neurotic
    Registered Users Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭A Neurotic


    Thargor wrote: »
    http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jan/30/george-rr-martin-the-winds-of-winter-publication

    Nothing will be published in 2015 apart from more illustrated crap. Sigh.

    Jesus Christ thank you. Was getting sick of clicking hopefully into this thread every time it updated, just to read more inane discussion and arguments about the first book.

    Now I can just put it out of my mind for a year.


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    #554
    hidinginthebush
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,679 ✭✭✭hidinginthebush


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Personally think that's one of the reason the show is better overall.

    But it's the depth of the story that makes this series so much better from the others I've read, and the show just takes a lot of that out, so all that remains that keeps the show unique is the setting and the fact that no hero is safe (well that, and the signature HBO constant nudity).

    There are also numerous other bug bears I have with the show. First that pops to mind and made me lose a lot of faith early on is Catlyn releasing Jamie. In the books, she thinks Bran and Rik are dead, so trades Jamie for the girls in a bid to at least save some of her children. In the show she just lets him go, then finds out later that Bran and Rik are "dead". Lazy. Would have cost them nothing extra to do it as it played out in the book, and give Cat motivations for releasing the kingslayer.

    And to have that sort of lazy thought process in control of revealing the resolution of what has been a truly epic series pisses me off.


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    #555
    Niska
    Registered Users Posts: 2,457 ✭✭✭Niska


    There's a nice summary of all info we know about TWOW:

    https://bryndenbfish.wordpress.com/2015/01/05/the-complete-winds-of-winter-resource/

    Also the original synopsis for books 4 and 5 when the 5 year gap was still planned (and later scrapped) - ties in with the released original 3 book overview form last month:

    (spoilered as some plot points may yet apply)
    Continuing the most ambitious and imaginative epic fantasy since The Lord of the Rings The action in Book Four of A Song of Ice and Fire begins the day after the end of A STORM OF SWORDS. While the remaining northern lords war endlessly with each other and the ironmen of the isles attack the Dreadfort, Sansa becomes a skilled player in the game of thrones with Littlefinger as her mentor, Arya a skilled assassin, and Bran a magician and shapeshifter of great power. All seek to gain revenge for the death of their parents and Robb Stark, whose head was cut off and replaced with the head of his direwolf. Valar morghulis. All men must die, and wolves, too. Danerys trains her growing dragons and learns from Barristan the secrets of her father, her brother Rhaegar, and other matters that will culminate at Starfell. And Jon Snow is the nine-hundredth-and-ninety-eighth lord commander of the Night's Watch. The Wall is his. The night is dark, and he has King Stannis to face. The cold wind is rising, and still there are inhuman powers gathering in the north.

    Continuing the most imaginative and ambitious epic fantasy since The Lord of the Rings Winter has come at last and no man can say whether it will ever go again. The Wall is broken, the cold dead legions are coming south, and the people of the Seven Kingdoms turn to their queen to protect them. But Daenerys Targaryen is learning what Robert Baratheon learned before her; that it is one thing to win a throne and quite another to sit on one. Before she can hope to defeat the Others, Dany knows she must unite the broken realm behind her. Wolf and lion must hunt together, maester and greenseer work as one, all the blood feuds must be put aside, the bitter rivals and sowrn enemies join hands. The Winds of Winter tells the story of Dany's fight to save her new-won kingdom, of two desperate journeys beyond the known world in to the very hearts of ice and fire, and of the final clomactic battle at Winterfell, with life itself in the balance.


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    #556
    Greyjoy
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭Greyjoy


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Personally think that's one of the reason the show is better overall.

    What the tv series has which the books lack is an editor who is willing to cut away the fat of pointless side plots and minor characters that don't advance the story in any meaningful way.


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    #557
    Duckworth_Luas
    Registered Users Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭Duckworth_Luas


    Greyjoy wrote: »
    What the tv series has which the books lack is an editor who is willing to cut away the fat of pointless side plots and minor characters that don't advance the story in any meaningful way.
    The editor cut away the fat ....... from the haunch of goat roasted with sweetgrass and basted with honey. This was swiftly followed by roast onions dripping with brown gravy, baked apples fragrant with cinnamon, and lemon cakes frosted in sugar. Pastries, cream swans, spun-sugar unicorns, spiced honey biscuits, and apple crisps served as desert. All washed down with wine sweetened with honey and fragrant with cinnamon and cloves.


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    #558
    December2012
    Registered Users Posts: 4,695 ✭✭✭December2012


    Starfall - yes! I can't wait to get to know more of the mutha effin house Dayne!


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    #559
    Tom.D.BJJ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭Tom.D.BJJ


    GET HYPE!!!!!

    grrm.livejournal.com/412882.html


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    #560
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    ^ so, you think we might have the book this time next year?


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    #561
    podgemonster
    Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭podgemonster


    Mr Freeze wrote: »
    ^ so, you think we might have the book this time next year?

    I think so, he released the Mercy chapter just before the Season 4 episode where Arya kills Polliver in a similar vengeful fashion as
    Mercy kills Raff.
    That always struck me as Georges letting the readers know that that scene was taken from the unwritten books as opposed to the shows writers coming up with it.

    I think George wants to be the one to release his art as apposed to an adapted version of it in another media. The comic cons are more than likely motivators for himself to get his act together before Season 6.

    He'll won't be able to do it for A Dream of Spring though.


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    #562
    Tom.D.BJJ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭Tom.D.BJJ


    Mr Freeze wrote: »
    ^ so, you think we might have the book this time next year?

    I think it's very likely


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    #563
    RobbingBandit
    Registered Users Posts: 18,086 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    Time to go north of the wall and freeze for a year so.


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    #564
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,151 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I have to admit, I'm hoping his publishers leave the editor a little more time on this one. I've always felt that Dance would have benefited from a little more editing before it was released. Perhaps it's just the case that when you get to this level of success an editor is afraid to challenge the author or that the author is simply too powerful but just some simple tightening of things like over-use of words and phrases would have improved it.


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    #565
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    New Sansa (Alayne) chapter up on Martin's site


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    #566
    GerB40
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭GerB40


    Godge wrote: »
    New Sansa (Alayne) chapter up on Martin's site


    http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/


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    #567
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,151 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Nothing surprising in that at all, very much a filler chapter imo


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    #568
    Hibbeler
    Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭Hibbeler


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Nothing surprising in that at all, very much a filler chapter imo

    To be fair it's probably a set up for the next Sansa/Alayne chapter. The one that's supposedly supposed to be possibly controversial


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    #569
    GerB40
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭GerB40


    Hibbeler wrote: »
    To be fair it's probably a set up for the next Sansa/Alayne chapter. The one that's supposedly supposed to be possibly controversial

    That's what I think. The chapter is too happy and we all know what happens soon after 'happy chapters' in ASoIaF. It's good to see a sassier Sansa clearly getting used to the game..


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    #570
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    This controversial chapter!

    Do we know anything about it, other that its going to be controversial?


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    #571
    GerB40
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭GerB40


    Mr Freeze wrote: »
    This controversial chapter!

    Do we know anything about it, other that its going to be controversial?

    At the moment we don't and considering how infamous it's becoming I reckon it'll be kept firmly under wraps until TWoW is released. And when you think about how controversial some chapters in ASoIaF have been so far, this one must be on a whole other level of gruesomeness..


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