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Program Analysis - Programs rated, debated and berated.
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02-05-2013 11:36pmSo I thought I would start a thread so people who were either doing a program or about to commence a program could have it analysed.
I think you should include the following:
1. The objective of the program.
2. Your current stats...age, weight etc etc.
3. The program obviously.
4. How you plan to implement it...how many sessions a week etc etc.
I'll put a few comments here that I can delete and edit later.
1. I haven't made this thread for me...it's for everyone.
2. I think it would be a great way to clear up boards since the forum is pretty much full of...'this is what I am doing...' or 'this is what I plan on doing....' threads and a lot of the answers and comments are the same.
3. I think it would be a good place to learn about programming...I'd love to see other trainers critiques of programs as well as getting the views of people who just train away on their own programs.
4. Maybe it would be a good idea to include here a 'template' of sorts....age, sex, years of training, current training frequency....that kind of thing so everytime someone posts here they can just copy and paste the template and then fill in the details to save all that stuff being asked all the time?
If people maybe start to add their comments and thoughts here then either myself or one of the mods can tidy it up after the fact for clarity.
Personally I think it's a great idea and I wish it was my own? To have one place on the forum where people can post their program and get advice on it...how to make it better....more effective....less damaging....more appropriate...that kind of thing.12
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1. The objective of the program.
Stay injury free, maintain muscle, lose bit of fat
2. Your current stats...age, weight etc etc.
32, 106kg, lift 10 plus years, Mma 1.5 years, a bit detrained at the moment current lifts bench 140kg, squat 160kg, deadlift 200kg. All lift down roughly 20%
3. The program obviously.
Day 1
Horizontal pull - inverted row
Horizontal push - bench
Quad Dom - squat
Core - ab wheel
Day 2
Vert pull - pull ups
Vert press - BB/DB press
Hip Dom - deadlift
Core - plank
4. How you plan to implement it...how many sessions a week etc etc.
2 session per week with 3-4 Mma/bjj/striking
Main areas for injury prevention/rehab are knees, hips, shoulders/upper back not too sure wat to do here
Gonna be low volume as I tend to get too beat up from squating to Mma etc 3-5 sets of 5-10 reps per exercises0 -
Looks pretty good to me. I will add a few comments, thoughts and observations in no particular order.
1. Staying injury free should be your priority. Improvement in any martial art is based on continuity and being injury free is key to that.
2. Your mobility and stability work should be almost the fundamental part of your program...your 'weights' the stuff you've listed here is great but supplemental.
3. You core work needs some more diversity...you are doing linear work...both static and dynamic. You need to add some lateral work and some rotational work...this work is key in martial arts. A lot of martial artists don't do a lot of core work and that is fine if you get all you need in your sessions, warm ups, drilling and in sparring. I personally find that even when I am not getting exposure to resistance training that if I stay on top of my core work I don't suffer much of a performance decrement because from a strong foundation I can still apply enough force to get the job done....if your core is weak then you can't even apply much of the force that you do have.
4. I would think about having a look at your BW bench to pull up ratio and your push up and inverted row in 60 second ratio. Balance and harmony isn't only essential in martial arts but essential in weight training...particularly if you want to stay injury free.
Just some thoughts there. I looks pretty good to me though.0 -
So more things like Russian twists, side bends for core?
As regards to mobility work was thinking band pulls parts and band dislocates for shoulders, hurdle step overs and fire hydrants for hips, not too sure wat to do for knees ? Or if all the above covers stability work either?, total lack of knowledge in this area is prob the reason ive had so many niggles and injuries0 -
So more things like Russian twists, side bends for core?As regards to mobility work was thinking band pulls parts and band dislocates for shoulders, hurdle step overs and fire hydrants for hips, not too sure wat to do for knees ?Or if all the above covers stability work either?, total lack of knowledge in this area is prob the reason ive had so many niggles and injuries0
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Will Heffernan wrote: »That's be a good start. I think I've crapped on here about core work enough...there was a thread here on boards that I went into some detail on it. Have a look for it if you're interested.
As above...a good start for sure.
It doesn't.
It's not the ONLY reason but it's sure is part of the problem you can be certain of that.
Thanks Ill try find that thread and post link here for reference, mobility and stability work will be my main googles for the next few days... cheers0 -
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Thanks Ill try find that thread and post link here for reference, mobility and stability work will be my main googles for the next few days... cheers
So finding a lot to read shouldn't be too hard. Plenty of people write about it now...just keep in mind though...you need to put it all together and not look at it in isolation.0 -
1. The objective of the program - Get stronger & keep some conditioning till Autumn time. Possibly return to MMA after 3 years out
2. age- 30 weight-74kg (up from 70 since January but don't look as fat ) Height- midget
3. The program
Day 1
Squat 3×5 (+2.5 - 5 lbs)
Bench 3×5 (+2.5 -5 lbs )
Conditioning block - up to 15 minutes - Include sprints
Day 2
DL Heavy 1×5 (+5-10lbs)
Vertical Pull (prone grip) 3 x max reps
Conditioning block - up to 15 minutes
Day 3
Off
Day 4
Squat 3×5 (+2.5 - 5 lbs)
Bench 3×5 (+2.5 - 5 lbs)
Sprint specific work (I'm so fecking slow)
Day 5
Power Clean 5×3 (add 2.5 lbs)
Vertical Pull (Supine Grip) 3 x max reps
Conditioning block - up to 15 minutes
Day 6
Whatever is going on!
(add + weights per session, deload every 4-6 weeks)
Edit: Lots & lots of mobility work to fix my broken ass! Main focus ankles, hips & glute activation! I need to add rotational work!!!0 -
Copied from other thread I de-railed....
I don't follow any set programmes and the below has been pulled by me out of nowhere. I have been working away at this more or less since New Years.
General
Warm-up: 5 minute cycle to gym and brisk 2/3 minutes on the rower or cross trainer.
Static stretching: force myself to do hip and calf work some evenings. Ankle mobility is quite poor at moment.
Cardio: General bike commuting and now with better weather longer distance cycling (e.g. Ring of Kerry 180km)
BW: 77.5kg
1RMs:
Squat: 150kg, Deadlift: 180kg, Bench: 105kg, Pull-ups: c.13
Squat and deadlift haven't been tested in a good while so no idea where they are now. I would suspect my squat is lower than 150 these days.
Goals
Long term: Stay strong, healthy and look well
Short term: Gain mobility for pistol squats. Gain strength for one arm push-ups. Do a muscle-up (haven't really attempt these yet)
Limitations
I work pretty long hours constantly so have limited time to work with. I am not a fan of stretching or mobility given time I have so the only way I can incorporate it in is with goals e.g. I want to do X movement.
Day 1 (Tuesday AM)
A1 Pull-ups 10kg 3x6 (rep range and weight varies)
B1 Deadlift 122.5kg 3x5 (low weight for now as haven't done these in a good while)
C1 Bent over Row 65kg
C2 Handstand Pushup 3x3
D1 L-Sit 3x10s
D2 Inverted Row (parallel to floor) 3x8
E1 Seated DB Curls 17.5kg 3x6
E2 Negative Dragon Flags/Straight leg hanging leg raise etc 3x5/3x10
Day 2 (Thursday/Friday AM)
Prehab - DC Crew workout
A1 Bench Press 90kg 3x5 (mix up rep range)
A2 DB Bent over flys 2kg 3x10 (I think they're call)
B1 Chin-ups 12.5kg 3x6 (mix up rep range)
C1 Handstand Pushup 3x4
C2 Hanging Leg Raise 3x10
D1 Diamond Push-ups (trying to work to 1 arm pushup) 3x12
D2 DB Bicel Curl 15kg 3x10
E1 Tricep Pulldown 3x10
E2 Face pull 3x12
Day 3 (Saturady)
Mobility - focus on hip and ankles
A1 Pistol Squat 4x10 (attempted that is, support still needed)
B1 Barbell Squat 110kg 5x3 (find these pretty tough after pistols)
B2 Curls 12.5kg 4x10
C1 DB Single Deadlift 12.5kg 3x10 (used to do Barbell SLDL)
C2 Wide Grip Pull-ups c.3x6
D1 Seated Calf Raise 45kg 3x10
D2 Negative Dragon Flag 3x5
E1 Weighted Plank 10kg x30s and unweighted each side 30s
Used to do russian twists but took them out for L-Sits. Will put them back in again instead of some of the other linear core work.0 -
Rant
Above and beyond anything else. Hard work has to be put into your training no matter what, honestly people may think they're busting their own ass in the gym but sometimes they just aren't. I've been there and I thought I was training hard but realistically I wasn't.
Consistency is key. That's all that can be said to achieve your own goals.
No matter who you are get someone to look over your training and vids. There are the smallest of things that someone can notice that can make a massive difference to lifts, this happened to me after a training session the other day and will make the difference in my total.
Eat and rest appropriately.
- Sorry to Hijack0 -
Firstly, I didn't make this thread just for me to pontificate and hold court. I thought it would be a good place for people to post their programs and get some analysis and review of it along with some good general discussion from a variety of sources.
Secondly, for all the wanna be personal trainers and sport scientists here I can't believe how little actual training discussion there is. Every week there is a thread or two here from someone asking...'How do I become a gym instructor?' or 'Which is university course is better for sport science.' or 'I really want to become a personal trainer...but not so much that I'd be willing to get a job to pay for the course or have to study for...what can I do?'. Yet none of these people seem to be interested in engaging in conversation about training or training methods or training philosophy.
Thirdly, it should be a general rule here that you shouldn't offer advice on stuff that you don't know or don't understand. That you shouldn't say anything that you can't actually 'back up'. I am not saying you need to have a PhD to comment because I know better than most that having a qualification doesn't mean anything just that if you want to tell every single person that asks about training that what they need to do is to eat paleo and do starting strength at least have some reasoning for it to back it up. Feel free to say...'what about trying this or that' or 'I've seen a lot of people are doing this or that' but please don't be making statements on a forum if you don't have a clue why you are saying it or don't have any reasoning to back it up.
Any comments I make or advice I give I have a reason for both scientifically and or anecdotally through experience BUT I by no means think I have all the answers and my opinions or advice is just 'a' way or 'an' answer....to any questions there are lots of ways and lots of answers to get things done and if they have reasoning behind them it would be great to hear them.
So what am I rambling about I hear you ask...well all I am trying to say is that even if it happens rarely anywhere else on boards that it would be nice to have some intelligent and informed discussion at least in one thread...so everyone should feel free to do so in this one.
Feel free to comment on entire programs or pieces of it. Feel free to ask questions or to ask for justification and or the rationale behind answers or comments.0 -
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1. The objective of the program - Get stronger & keep some conditioning till Autumn time. Possibly return to MMA after 3 years out
2. age- 30 weight-74kg (up from 70 since January but don't look as fat ) Height- midget
3. The program
Day 1
Squat 3×5 (+2.5 - 5 lbs)
Bench 3×5 (+2.5 -5 lbs )
Conditioning block - up to 15 minutes - Include sprints
Day 2
DL Heavy 1×5 (+5-10lbs)
Vertical Pull (prone grip) 3 x max reps
Conditioning block - up to 15 minutes
Day 3
Off
Day 4
Squat 3×5 (+2.5 - 5 lbs)
Bench 3×5 (+2.5 - 5 lbs)
Sprint specific work (I'm so fecking slow)
Day 5
Power Clean 5×3 (add 2.5 lbs)
Vertical Pull (Supine Grip) 3 x max reps
Conditioning block - up to 15 minutes
Day 6
Whatever is going on!
(add + weights per session, deload every 4-6 weeks)
Edit: Lots & lots of mobility work to fix my broken ass! Main focus ankles, hips & glute activation! I need to add rotational work!!!
Day 1
Squat 3×5 (+2.5 - 5 lbs)
Vertical Pull (prone grip) 3 x max reps
Conditioning block - up to 15 minutes - Include sprints
Day 2
DL Heavy 1×5 (+5-10lbs)
Bench 3×5 (+2.5 -5 lbs )
Conditioning block - up to 15 minutes
Day 3
Off
Day 4
Squat 3×5 (+2.5 - 5 lbs)
Vertical Pull (Supine Grip) 3 x max reps
Sprint specific work (I'm so fecking slow)
Day 5
Power Clean 5×3 (add 2.5 lbs)
Bench 3×5 (+2.5 - 5 lbs)
Conditioning block - up to 15 minutes
Day 6
Whatever is going on!
(add + weights per session, deload every 4-6 weeks)
Deadlifting and Chin/Pull Ups variations on the same say aren't optimal...doing back work (maximally static/dynamically) then back work (exhaustively dynamically) on the same day in the same session does not equal optimal performance in anyway shape or form.
Much better to do anteriorly focused leg work paired with posteriorly focused back work and vice versa.0 -
Copied from other thread I de-railed....
I don't follow any set programmes and the below has been pulled by me out of nowhere. I have been working away at this more or less since New Years0 -
Rant
Above and beyond anything else. Hard work has to be put into your training no matter what, honestly people may think they're busting their own ass in the gym but sometimes they just aren't. I've been there and I thought I was training hard but realistically I wasn't.
Consistency is key. That's all that can be said to achieve your own goals.
No matter who you are get someone to look over your training and vids. There are the smallest of things that someone can notice that can make a massive difference to lifts, this happened to me after a training session the other day and will make the difference in my total.
Eat and rest appropriately.
- Sorry to Hijack0 -
1. The objective of the program.
Stay injury free, grow and maintain muscle, lose bit of fat
2. Your current stats...age, weight etc etc.
90kg, 5 10", 33 years of age body fat higher than id like not beed measured in years but id say 15-18% lift 5 plus years ,torn ACL on right knee and repaired ACL successfully on left knee at moment!, struggling with a bit of a right shoulder problem as well affecting my pushing but ive recently started training with a swiss bar and generaly narrower grips and getting much better pain free movements! current lifts bench 100kg, squat 140kg, 1rm 160kg about 2 years ago, deadlift 160kg, my bench is down from 120 kg 1rm cant get near it at the moment since my shoulder trouble but Building up nicely again since knee injury on squat averaging +5kg a week, deadlift is increasing similarly bench is static but realy building tricep power and reps seem higher if weight is slower to increase!
3. The program can change randomly but generaly
Day 1
Deadlift, warm up 3 x 10, going heavier 1 x 6, 1 x 4, 1 x 2, singles and attempted max lifts adding weight!
Medium grip pullups 5 x 10 bodyweight.
Swiss bar clean and jerk adding weight per set usualy 4- 5 sets finishing at 4 reps'ish!
Bent over lateral raise lowish weights higher reps 10-12, 4/5 sets
Shrugs on hex bar 4-5 sets.
Day 2
Squat, warm up 2 x 10 going heavier 1x8, 1x6, 1x4, 1x2 singles and attempted max lifts adding weight!
Standing calf raises on smith 4-5 sets high reps adding weight.
Seated leg press higher reps 4 sets.
Single leg calf raises on leg press machine 4 sets
Usualy throw in some hamstring work like seated hamstring curl machine or lighter weight stiff leg deads.
Day 3
Bench press medium grip 2 x 12, 1 x 10, 1 x 8, 1 x 6 increasing weight as I go!
Standing shoulder press with swiss bar 4- 5 sets adding weight.
Weighted dips 4-5 sets 8-10 reps max added weight 30 kg!
Decline sit ups and weighted side raise for abs supersets .
Close grip incline bench on smith machine 4-5 sets increasing weight 6-10 reps
Tricep pushdown on cable machine 4 sets.
Rest Day
Day 4
Seated rows 4-5 sets adding weight .
wide grip lat pull down 4-5 sets adding weight
Dumbbell shrugs heavy as I can min 6 reps 4 -5 sets.
Bent over rows with oly bar adding weight 4-5 sets.
Upright rows 4-5 sets adding weight.
Day 5
Random arm day usualy can be anything on this day?
Usualy weighted pullups
weighted dips
some seated dumbbell curl variant
some pushdown tricep variant etc etc.
Now my diet is improving but not perfect its my real weakness that's my personal battle!
I realy enjoy my workouts and I am growing but when I read this back it looks a bit much?
I think I should throw in a cardio specific day instead of day 4 or 5 as im not doing anything at the moment bar the odd cycle weather dependant!
Another thing is my workout days are not exacting as in some days i randomly change an exercise depending on equipment available etc but for the main its close to the above!
Due to knee injury im finished with my hurling career and soccer career and have bulked a bit since stopping mostly lean which im happy with !
Just to add also using creatine and taking omega 3, msm, calcium/magnesium/zinc, glucosamine sulphate and b complex supplements daily.0 -
Will, don't know if you've come across it yet but it's the latest method that pretty much takes a lot of concepts from other methods - Brandon Lilly's Cub Method.
Now it's powerlifting focused but just curious on your thoughts about it?0 -
Will, don't know if you've come across it yet but it's the latest method that pretty much takes a lot of concepts from other methods - Brandon Lilly's Cub Method.
Now it's powerlifting focused but just curious on your thoughts about it?
Be interesting to hear your opinion on this as well. Was thinking of giving this program a go ahead of my first powerlifting meet in the autumn.
Da Za have you run the program before? Do you think it lacks allot of upper back work on repetition & explosive bench days?0 -
Will, don't know if you've come across it yet but it's the latest method that pretty much takes a lot of concepts from other methods - Brandon Lilly's Cub Method.
Now it's powerlifting focused but just curious on your thoughts about it?
I messed around with similar protocols about....ahhhhhh....8+ years ago. A young rugby player (who you know) who is soon to turn 30 got a program where his squat, bench and deadlift was arranged similarly. Only...the deadlift was done max effort, the repetition was done as RDL's and the dynamic effort was done explosively and done as a power clean...there were squats...of max effort nature...the repetition effort were goblet squats and the dynamic effort were box jumps.
Let me just tell you this and put you and everyone else out of their misery THERE IS NOTHING NEW...this is not new...it wasn't new when I did it. I was doing 'crossfit' before crossfit had a name.....I was coaching mobility and stability work before anybody made a WOD for it. It wasn't new when I did it and it is not new now.
It works because it has always worked and if it is 'right' for you and you buy into it...then it will definitely work for you.
If you've not done it before and you start doing it...then like any program that is well thought out and decently constructed it will work...for a time.
That is good enough for me.0 -
Turbo_diesel wrote: »Be interesting to hear your opinion on this as well. Was thinking of giving this program a go ahead of my first powerlifting meet in the autumn.
Da Za have you run the program before? Do you think it lacks allot of upper back work on repetition & explosive bench days?0 -
Will Heffernan wrote: »Thirdly, it should be a general rule here that you shouldn't offer advice on stuff that you don't know or don't understand. That you shouldn't say anything that you can't actually 'back up'. I am not saying you need to have a PhD to comment because I know better than most that having a qualification doesn't mean anything just that if you want to tell every single person that asks about training that what they need to do is to eat paleo and do starting strength at least have some reasoning for it to back it up. Feel free to say...'what about trying this or that' or 'I've seen a lot of people are doing this or that' but please don't be making statements on a forum if you don't have a clue why you are saying it or don't have any reasoning to back it up.
Much as I'd agree with that, I think that's wishful thinking. It's one of the main reasons you dip in and out of the forum, and other trainers post little or not at all these days...which is a real pity for the genuine people looking for advise.
That's one part of the problem, the other is sheer working hours. I can't speak for others but my day starts at 6am and I don't see the front door again until 9pm. There are gaps of course but that's where I try to slot my own training, and I'd imagine other trainers the same. The little time I do have on boards is usually restricted to reading this and other forums from my mobile...which makes it difficult to type a response longer than 2 lines ; )Will Heffernan wrote: »So what am I rambling about I hear you ask...well all I am trying to say is that even if it happens rarely anywhere else on boards that it would be nice to have some intelligent and informed discussion at least in one thread...so everyone should feel free to do so in this one.
Having said all that I think both this, and the other thread on programming have great potential and I enjoy dipping in and out of them and will make a more conscious effort to post and open it up a bit more. I have a few things that I wouldn't mind discussing, and here is as good as anywhere, so i'll try to gather some thoughts and stick them in these threads to benefit others later on.0 -
So, like many others, I have enjoyed reading Will's posts recently. However I'd imagine I'm not the only one grimacing a little at the implications. I'm 29 years old and 140kgs plus and got back into training properly with Crossfit Ireland at the end of January. It's tough, but I'm finding the environment really good. The coaches seem to really know their stuff and having your program designed for you and access to form and nutrition advice is brilliant.
But it seems to me - and I've no doubt you'll correct me if I've interpreted you wrong - that you're suggesting people in my situation (i.e. someone who had got themselves quite unhealthy through years of no / bad training and poor diet) should leave aside intense, heavy or technically demanding training and instead go walking / jogging regularly combined with mobility and stability type work with some bodyweight resistance exercises (or some variation thereof). Look after the heart and try to undo the daily damage of sitting at a desk and eat well - i.e. forget about trying to hit PBs or get into top shape again, etc.
Where would you set the cutoff point on this? Would you be of the opinion that anyone not chasing elite fitness for sport or competition should dial it down and focus on regular 'activity' and 'exercise' rather than 'training'? Or is it more that anyone who doesn't have the time or knowledge to put a balanced program together (i.e. 95% + of the population) and know what they need to do in terms of rest and nutrition should confine themselves to things that can't cause long term damage?Will Heffernan wrote: »Because for the majority of people...and when I say majority I don't mean 51% I mean probably closer to 97% of people the warm up, prehab/mobility stuff and probably their cardio has way more of a positive effect on their health and fitness than all the stuff they do that they call training. I'd say the majority of people and when I say majority I'd say closer to 51% of people are probably doing more damage to themselves long term with their 'training' than they are having a positive impact on their health and fitness.
This post to me seems to be touching the core of your positions on the type of programs people on here are likely to be doing and it might be the basis of your advice for most non professional / elite athletes - i.e. forget about intense strength training or trying to run a marathon or whatever, just enjoy regular activity.
As I say, if I'm way misinterpreting your recent posts I apologise.0 -
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Much as I'd agree with that, I think that's wishful thinking.It's one of the main reasons you dip in and out of the forum,and other trainers post little or not at all these days...which is a real pity for the genuine people looking for advise.That's one part of the problem, the other is sheer working hours. I can't speak for others but my day starts at 6am and I don't see the front door again until 9pm. There are gaps of course but that's where I try to slot my own training, and I'd imagine other trainers the same. The little time I do have on boards is usually restricted to reading this and other forums from my mobile...which makes it difficult to type a response longer than 2 lines ; )Having said all that I think both this, and the other thread on programming have great potential and I enjoy dipping in and out of them and will make a more conscious effort to post and open it up a bit more. I have a few things that I wouldn't mind discussing, and here is as good as anywhere, so i'll try to gather some thoughts and stick them in these threads to benefit others later on.0
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LuckyLloyd wrote: »So, like many others, I have enjoyed reading Will's posts recently.However I'd imagine I'm not the only one grimacing a little at the implications. I'm 29 years old and 140kgs plus and got back into training properly with Crossfit Ireland at the end of January. It's tough, but I'm finding the environment really good. The coaches seem to really know their stuff and having your program designed for you and access to form and nutrition advice is brilliant.
1. Interested enough in health and fitness to read about it online....check.
2. 140kgs....hmmm. I am guessing that you aren't 8ft 4in which is what you'd need to have a mid range BMI so my guess is that you are overweight...so in need of a change of diet and lifestyle to improve your fitness and health....check.
3. Has managed to join a gym and remain a member while hopefully training consistently for over 4 months...check.
OK...so far so good...lets continue.But it seems to me - and I've no doubt you'll correct me if I've interpreted you wrong
1. I am not the assh*le that people seem to think I am.
2. Even when I am ridiculing/lambasting/criticising someone I am doing it with a smile on my face...I don't post angry or upset. I fight pretty much every single day...I don't mean on the internet...I mean in real life and I fight a lot of people who REALLY don't like me and say awful things to me and THEY don't even get under my skin...believe me when I tell you this...no criticism or harsh words anyone has to say to me or about me on the interweb gets to me. So feel free to speak as directly and as bluntly as you like. If you think I am wrong or out of my mind...just say it and we can work from there.
3. It's not who can internet shout the loudest that matters...your opinion is your opinion and if I can't convince you that you are wrong and I am right if I disagree with it then it really doesn't matter.
So on we go.- that you're suggesting people in my situation (i.e. someone who had got themselves quite unhealthy through years of no / bad training and poor diet) should leave aside intense, heavy or technically demanding training and instead go walking / jogging regularly combined with mobility and stability type work with some bodyweight resistance exercises (or some variation thereof). Look after the heart and try to undo the daily damage of sitting at a desk and eat well - i.e. forget about trying to hit PBs or get into top shape again, etc.
Looking at your statement piece by piece.
1. Yes, you should do some sort of cardiovascular work BUT that doesn't have to be walking...the effect can be gained in any number of ways...walking, cycling, swimming...or a weights circuit or touch football. What you need to look at is a cost to benefit analysis...would I choose swimming if I had dodgy shoulders...no. Would I choose walking if I had a dodgy knee....no. Would swimming be good for the person with the dodgy knee...yes. Would walking be good for the person with a dodgy shoulder...yes. Would a weights circuit that was developed with dodgy shoulders and dodgy knees in mind be a good option for both of them...yes. It is about finding the right solution for each individual...one thing isn't right for everyone but it can be right for lots of people.
2. Will proper mobility and stability work help...absolutely. Will it help everyone....absolutely. I am not saying it's essential...I know people who don't warm up at all...people who do no mobility and stability work. I also know heaps of lifters and athletes who spend half their time training around injuries and disfunction...do you know why a lot of people prefer sumo deadlifts? Do you know why most people change their bench technique? Do you know why some people don't have dips in their program? Do you know why some people don't overhead press? Do you know why some people in threads here on boards say chin ups are better for your shoulders than pull ups? Let me answer it for you...because people are retarded. Just because you can 'work around' something doesn't mean that you should. Have a bit of a think about this...have a look at old people...I mean really old people and think about the difference between the ones that you think...'I can't believe they are doing that at their age.' and then have a look at the ones that bring tears to your eyes and think about the difference between the two groups. The ones that are off on a cycling tour around Tuscany versus the ones in a walking frame, confined to chairs or bed for huge portions of the day. Then have a think about which group you want to be a part of? It is easy to be 'hardcore' in your 20's...even in your 30's...in your 40's hardcore takes management...in your 50's it takes luck. When you are in your 20's you can say 'F*ck you and f*ck your elbows.'. A lot of people who are saying that in their 20's won't have to say it in their 60's because they won't be alive and it really won't make a difference. As per usual...I could go on and on. Will scap push ups change your life...no...but you are a moron if you don't do them.
3. Resistance training...if you are in a gym and you like the gym then be all means go to the gym. I am all about finding the right solution for the right individual. What I am saying though is a lot can be achieved just doing body weight work. How many people do you know that have injured their backs or knees doing squats or deadlifts? Now, how many people in comparison do you think have injured themselves...damaged discs, ended up in rehab after doing lunges in the park? How many people have injured themselves benching as opposed to doing push ups. Have a think about all your pb's and all the training you do to achieve them...now ask yourself...do you compete? Do you often find yourself on your back pushing huge loads off yourself? Do you have a 150 kg vacuum cleaner at home that you need to pick up and put away? If you don't compete and you don't live in an alternate universe to me then why are you 'pushing the envelope' at training? Why are you even risking injury in pursuit of numbers that are never going to mean anything to anyone other than you? Strength training is great and the stimulus of strength training has hugely beneficial effects...you need to think about what your doing, how you are doing it and why is all. If you can rationalise it all to yourself...then go for it. All I am saying is there is a lot of ways to get the 'right/best' result.Where would you set the cutoff point on this? Would you be of the opinion that anyone not chasing elite fitness for sport or competition should dial it down and focus on regular 'activity' and 'exercise' rather than 'training'?
I don't do as much coaching now as I did in Ireland...it's more a side job for me but the coaching I do now is with some pretty high level experienced athletes...guys that have 8+ years of elite sport and coaching. I spend my ENTIRE time at training coaching...correcting, altering and improving technique...think about that...these are guys that have been coached on deadlifting, squatting and benching their entire sporting lives and they require constant coaching. People here think that telling someone to go off and do starting strength and to drink a gallon of milk a day counts as good advice? They think nothing of it...now most people don't damage themselves because they are total pussies and don't end up squatting more than their bodyweight if they are lucky and most people don't even stick to training for more than a few months BUT it is moronic advice all the same. I am going to try and say this as nicely as possible but even a lot of the people who think they really know about fitness and training and are well read don't really understand the area...they think they do...but they don't and that is cool as well...because if you understand the fundamentals...how to put together and good balanced program and how to coach the lifts adequately then things will only go wrong maybe 20% of the time.Or is it more that anyone who doesn't have the time or knowledge to put a balanced program together (i.e. 95% + of the population) and know what they need to do in terms of rest and nutrition should confine themselves to things that can't cause long term damage?This post to me seems to be touching the core of your positions on the type of programs people on here are likely to be doing and it might be the basis of your advice for most non professional / elite athletes - i.e. forget about intense strength training or trying to run a marathon or whatever, just enjoy regular activity.
As I say, if I'm way misinterpreting your recent posts I apologise.0 -
I am just as happy to have a interesting discussion on training as I am to read about people who only eat an apple a day.
Was that me?
In fairness, I ate three apples a day, unless I was fasting...
I do enjoy your posts Will, but where were you in the early nineties when I could have used your advice (I could use it now, but I'm so bloody lazy)
Anyway, the Apple Diet is mine, I used it and I'll franchise it out if anyone ever thinks it's a good idea again...hardly!
I'm going to read all your old posts now Will, it is a Bank Holiday like. Hope the weather is better where you are!0 -
Deise Musashi wrote: »Was that me?In fairness, I ate three apples a day, unless I was fasting...I do enjoy your posts Will, but where were you in the early nineties when I could have used your advice (I could use it now, but I'm so bloody lazy)Anyway, the Apple Diet is mine, I used it and I'll franchise it out if anyone ever thinks it's a good idea again...hardly!I'm going to read all your old posts now Will, it is a Bank Holiday like.
Actually categorise them for me...the helpful, the humorous, the argumentative etc etc.Hope the weather is better where you are!0 -
That's a brilliant post Will, should be food for thought in there for most people, cheers.0
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LuckyLloyd wrote: »That's a brilliant post Will, should be food for thought in there for most people, cheers.
Well if it was food for thought for you then that is good enough for me. Thanks for the positive praise...better than what I usually get here0 -
Will Heffernan wrote: »A brilliant post? You mean compared to my usual ones?
Well if it was food for thought for you then that is good enough for me. Thanks for the positive praise...better than what I usually get here
I just think a well reasoned 'think about whether this is worth it' post is very worthwhile on page one of a 'program critique' thread.
I can only speak for myself of course, but coming on four months of training 4 times a week and adjusting diet I'm seeing results. But I'm also seeing problems. Is my new awesome (for me ) 1 rep max deadlift or 500m row time worth the tendinosis in my knees or feeling beat to **** when sitting in the office most days? And even if it was, the 1 rep max deadlift isn't why I started doing this in the first place. The objective was 'get healthier' after all. So thanks for that. We probably shouldn't need someone to tell us this stuff - but your recent posts have put it together very well for me anyway.0 -
LuckyLloyd wrote: »I just think a well reasoned 'think about whether this is worth it' post is very worthwhile on page one of a 'program critique' thread.I can only speak for myself of course,but coming on four months of training 4 times a week and adjusting diet I'm seeing results.But I'm also seeing problems.Is my new awesome (for me ) 1 rep max deadlift or 500m row time worth the tendinosis in my knees or feeling beat to **** when sitting in the office most days?
I don't know whether I said it here or in another thread or whether I didn't say it at all but in short...when you are first starting out training...and by just starting out I mean the first couple of years of consistent training....all your physical capacities are not going to improve at exactly the same rate...and you AND your coaches need to be aware of that...to use your example...your aerobic capacity will improve faster than your muscular capacity and both of those will improve much faster than your connective tissues capacity to put the improvement in both of these into practice. So just because you CAN go harder doesn't mean you should...just because you CAN deadlift more one session to another doesn't mean you should...just because you can row further in your 500m time trial doesn't mean you should. Do you follow...there is nothing wrong with increasing your loading monthly rather than weekly.And even if it was, the 1 rep max deadlift isn't why I started doing this in the first place. The objective was 'get healthier' after all. So thanks for that. We probably shouldn't need someone to tell us this stuff - but your recent posts have put it together very well for me anyway.0 -
Last few posts have given me food for thought. Have I lost track of the goals that made me join a gym? Is what I am doing helping anything bar massage my ego?0
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OK 4 day a week programme
Aim is to maintain muscle, lose fat.
Workout A -
Bench, Squat, Pull ups
Workout B -
Deadlift, tricep dips and Shoulders. (also Bodyweight squats and one leg lunges x 30)
Weights are all done on an inverse pyramid system. e.g Bench would be 85kg x 4, then 75 x 7, then 70kg x 9
I also play soccer 2 or 3 times a week.0
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