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How do you feel about T-Girls?

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  • 28-09-2005 1:51pm
    #1
    Rozie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭


    This isn't looking to pick anyone up, more of a chances assessment.

    I'm interested as to who here would actually date a transsexual, and what kinds of people you tihnk would date one esp. a pre-op one.

    The way I look at it is -

    Straight Guys - No way! Born as a man.
    Lesbians - Ditto.
    Bisexuals - Can't decide on which gender to like them as.

    Be honest, would anyone here actually go out with a trannie? I can't imagine anyone doing so and it's really getting me down lately.


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    #2
    Hmm_Messiah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭Hmm_Messiah


    Fact: There are people who go out with/have relationships with transexuals , pre-op and post.

    However Rozie, this post seems similar to others and to me suggests you are still looking for a kind of help and support that this forum could not provide.

    Regarding anything "getting you down" I'd hope you've sought the professional help/ support groups recommended on other occasions


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    #3
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    I don't think I would date a transexual.


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    #4
    Rozie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭Rozie


    LiouVille wrote:
    I don't think I would date a transexual.

    Not to bug you or anything, but a "Why not" would help a little.


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    #5
    FranknFurter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,215 ✭✭✭FranknFurter


    Rozie,
    To be 100% honest with you, the path you have mentioned before that you are on, at the point you have said previously you are at, this concern is somthing you need to discuss with a profesional counsellor in a professional enviroment. IMHO

    And Rozie, there are people out there who will love you for *who* you are, not your dick or lack therof, so try not to fret too much on that score. :)

    b


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    #6
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Rozie wrote:
    Not to bug you or anything, but a "Why not" would help a little.

    Personal preference, I'm not attracted to androgeny (sp?). There's always the possibility I will meet someone and fall for them, but I don't see it happening. I don't agree with what if questions either. It's hardly like I've a stead fast rule. People can be as open and accepting as you like, when it comes to who they open there hearts to you can't question their choices.


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    #7
    Rozie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭Rozie


    I'm not an androgyne, I identify as female.


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    #8
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    So you pass for female completely? I though you said Pre Op. Dressing, feeling, and acting female while having male parts is androgenous to me.

    Look at it this way, Straight people can be completely accepting of homosexuals, without wanting to be with them, no? So why is this different.


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    #9
    rsynnott
    Registered Users Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭rsynnott


    I'm honestly not sure if I'd date a transsexual. Post-op (M->F) not a chance. Bit of a moot point, really, though, since they'd hardly date me ;)


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    #10
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    I'm reminded of this thread i started some time back, and the arguements in it. I don't know any transexual people, personally or in passing, so really I can't comment on whether i would or wouldn't be with one. While I completely accept that some people are transgendered, I'm just don't think i'm comfortable enough with it, to date one. That said, I used to have the same feelings many years ago about LGB people before I got to know some.


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    #11
    Rozie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭Rozie


    LiouVille wrote:
    Look at it this way, Straight people can be completely accepting of homosexuals, without wanting to be with them, no? So why is this different.

    Because if that logic holds globally, it means only Trans go out with trans.

    Sadly, this is very often the case. People pride themselves so much on how they have a *right* not to like transsexuals and all that, and we're left out in the cold, rejected by the rest of the LGB crowd as well as the straight ones...

    It's pretty lonely alright. Acceptance is at most half the battle if nobody really wants to go near us.


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    #12
    jcoote
    Registered Users Posts: 3,968 ✭✭✭jcoote


    rozie u need to become comfortable with who u are big time..you seem to be really struggling and my heart goes out to u it a ****ty situation your in...i wouldn't date a transexual...u nailed the reason why because they are men but i'm sure tons of people would...if the transexual person was comfortable wit who they were and was a good partner!


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    #13
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    You really believe the reason people won't go out with transexuals is because they dislike them? I think you're pushing it tbh. I don't dislike transexuals at all. I don't like the undertone of all this, i.e. unless your willing to be with a TS you're against them.

    As for rights, of course people have a right to dislike you. Same way they have a right to dislike anything they want. doesn't mean you have to agree with them.


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    #14
    Rozie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭Rozie


    u nailed the reason why because they are men

    I'm not a man :/
    i'm sure tons of people would...if the transexual person was comfortable wit who they were and was a good partner!

    I've never once been out with anyone, and out of all the people on the Irish trans mailing list, they either had a partner before hand, or were out with another T-Girl. Maybe in other countries, but Ireland is about as openminded as Albert from Steptoe and Son and people like me suffer as a result of the kind of people that just say "Quit your whinin'".


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    #15
    Rozie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭Rozie


    LiouVille wrote:
    You really believe the reason people won't go out with transexuals is because they dislike them? I think you're pushing it tbh. I don't dislike transexuals at all. I don't like the undertone of all this, i.e. unless your willing to be with a TS you're against them.

    As for rights, of course people have a right to dislike you. Same way they have a right to dislike anything they want. doesn't mean you have to agree with them.

    Looking at it stastically that a lot of people say they accept transsexuals, but very, very, very few will go out with them, it's obvious for many it's not a question of taste but of being accepted - but not all the way.

    If a T Girl looks and acts like a normal girl which only a few minor flaws, what difference does it make? Does background make a good argument for not liking someone now?

    And all this "Oh people can dislike this and it's their right" and all that is all well and good for everyone else as it doesn't affect them, what about me?


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    #16
    jcoote
    Registered Users Posts: 3,968 ✭✭✭jcoote


    i don't think your appearence has anything to do with your lack of success i think u are too afraid of yourself to allow yourself to be open with another person


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    #17
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Rozie wrote:
    Ireland is about as openminded as Albert from Steptoe and Son and people like me suffer as a result of the kind of people that just say "Quit your whinin'".

    You're looking for people to be extremely open minded and free spirited, and then criticising them when their not. You're asking allot of people, allot more then i really think you have a right to. You're asking for a level of acceptance that LGB people tend to only get from other LGB people.

    Right, Straight guy; You have a male body, he is not sexually aroused by a male body, how can he be with someone he's not sexually attracted to?

    Same for a lesbian;

    As for Bisexual's; I don't think you understand what that means, and are confusing it with some form of pansexuality.


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    #18
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Rozie wrote:
    Looking at it stastically that a lot of people say they accept transsexuals, but very, very, very few will go out with them, it's obvious for many it's not a question of taste but of being accepted - but not all the way.

    If a T Girl looks and acts like a normal girl which only a few minor flaws, what difference does it make? Does background make a good argument for not liking someone now?

    I can accept you and the life you live, without accepting you into my bed. When those minor flaws you speak of would include having a penis then there is a problem. Also most M - F, cannot pass for female pre op. I don't get you're background comment, where talking pre op here, and try as hard as you want, it's still going to be relavent to your current situations.
    And all this "Oh people can dislike this and it's their right" and all that is all well and good for everyone else as it doesn't affect them, what about me?

    What about yea? you're not the only one, or only minority people dislike.


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    #19
    Rozie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭Rozie


    You're looking for people to be extremely open minded and free spirited, and then criticising them when their not. You're asking allot of people, allot more then i really think you have a right to. You're asking for a level of acceptance that LGB people tend to only get from other LGB people.

    Yeah, you're right. It's far too much to be asked to be loved.
    Right, Straight guy; You have a male body, he is not sexually aroused by a male body, how can he be with someone he's not sexually attracted to?

    Same for a lesbian;

    And what about a few years down the line when I *don't* have a male body? And why do people only care about sex..? What ever happened to loving the person inside?
    Why is there nobody that's open minded to it in the first place?
    As for Bisexual's; I don't think you understand what that means, and are confusing it with some form of pansexuality.

    What are you talking about..?
    I can accept you and the life you live, without accepting you into my bed. When those minor flaws you speak of would include having a penis then there is a problem. Also most M - F, cannot pass for female pre op. I don't get you're background comment, where talking pre op here, and try as hard as you want, it's still going to be relavent to your current situations.

    Male to female trans can pass if they put in the effort. Genitals make no difference anyway to your general appearance. SRS has nothing to do with passing. Passing is to do either with hormonal treatment reshaping the body and changing the skin texture on your face or general presentation. I have to go purely on presentation right now, but it's only a matter of months before I'm on HRT(hopefully).

    I don't know, "I can accept you and the life you live, without accepting you into my bed." reeks far too much of how people felt about racial minorities not so long ago.
    What about yea? you're not the only one, or only minority people dislike.

    Saying that doesn't solve anything. We're still very much at the butt end of things compared to how LGB people are treated today.

    You can go into a Lesbian/Gay bar and find someone or pick them up, because at the end of the day you're still *normal* to one another. There's tons of people who declare themselves bisexual but wouldn't think about going out with a trans, which *is* most definitely an issue of being open minded in many cases.

    I know almost no trans people who went out with lesbian/bi/straight after transition. What ever rights you say people have to dislike this and that, this isn't fair on us. There's no way in hell it's purely down to taste. A lot of the time, people are too scared with the opinions of others when they go out with a trans, especially parents; write them off as "icky" without giving them a chance(Though obviously on the surface they claim to accept them); don't really accept them as their current gender because of how they knew them before/what they "believe" gender is(i.e. a half assed opinion formed on the spot as an excuse).

    Considerring the nature of transsexuality and society in general I very much doubt that there isn't at least a sizable amount of people like that.

    You're going too far in to taking this on an individual case, you have to look at it as a whole before you see a trend develop.


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    #20
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Rozie wrote:
    Yeah, you're right. It's far too much to be asked to be loved.

    When thats the level of acceptance you demand from people, then yes. People can't suddenly flip some switch and be capable of that.
    And what about a few years down the line when I *don't* have a male body? And why do people only care about sex..? What ever happened to loving the person inside?
    Why is there nobody that's open minded to it in the first place?

    Sex is important is any non-pultonic relationship. Of course people can love the person inside, and see pass boundaries such as male/female and straight/gay, nobody denied they couldn't, but for the love of christ thats allot to expect from the general population, from the casual aquanance or a stranger.
    I don't know, "I can accept you and the life you live, without accepting you into my bed." reeks far too much of how people felt about racial minorities not so long ago.

    You belittle what it means to be with someone. People can't control who they are attracted to. Some people arn't attracted to blacks/indians/asians, the racists bastards.
    Saying that doesn't solve anything. We're still very much at the butt end of things compared to how LGB people are treated today.

    All LGB people seek is people not to give a fuk about who they are, and treat them like they would anyone else. You want people to embrace you and love you. You want allot more then most LGB people.
    here's tons of people who declare themselves bisexual but wouldn't think about going out with a trans, which *is* most definitely an issue of being open minded in many cases.

    Sorry want? Do you think bi-sexual grand, likes women, likes men, heres both rolled into the one package? It doesn't work like that for most Bi-sexuals.
    I know almost no trans people who went out with lesbian/bi/straight after transition. What ever rights you say people have to dislike this and that, this isn't fair on us. There's no way in hell it's purely down to taste.

    Depends on your definitions of open minded, and taste. I'm not comfortable with using drugs, of any kinda, yet i'd happily sit in a rooms where people are triping out. How open minded am I, or is that a taste issue. Allot of people are just not comfortable with going out with TS, thats their personal choice and they have every right to make it. Allot of people would not go out with Bisexuals thats their personal choice and they have every right to make it also.


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    #21
    Rozie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭Rozie


    Allot of people are just not comfortable with going out with TS, thats their personal choice and they have every right to make it.

    Good for them, and good for you. If it's their personal choice, it makes everything a trans person goes through alone a-okay.

    I'll just sit here while you and others enjoy their lives not giving a ****.

    People ARE closed minded and I absolutely refuse to believe that there is almost nobody out there for trans people. Human beings, as usual, are being ignorant, arrogant, selfish, and above all, afraid. But they're not neccessarily bad people for doing so, they just act like that because they believe it's acceptable to be, because it's acceptable for people to be "Icky" in the first place.

    People don't control who they're attracted to, but they can pretend. And they do.

    And you're perfectly fine with the fact that as a result there's a huge chance I'll live my entire life alone, as it's high enough with "normal" people, how do you think it feels to have a kiddy pool of choice?


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    #22
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    I'm going to get flamed here, maybe rightly so, for being so blunt, but how is you being alone my fault or my problem. It probably makes perfect sense to you. I "probably" wouldn't date a TS girl, therefore I'm the reason you don't have a date. And not having a partner is ruining your life somehow. Theres a current thread in PI about a 30 year old vigin, I feel for you as much as you feel for him, in that regard. When it comes to who people want to be intimate with, share their heart and soul with, the good times and the bad times and grow old with, they can have whatever criteria they want. Would you rather someone pretend to want you? Your posts would seem to suggest you would. I've come on here and been honest with you. I not read a single thing by you which would make me re-considered dating a TS girl.


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    #23
    rsynnott
    Registered Users Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭rsynnott


    Rozie wrote:
    People don't control who they're attracted to, but they can pretend. And they do.


    What? No they don't.

    If it makes you feel any better, as an ugly gay male I'm in a vaguely similar situation. :rolleyes:

    There are people out there for you; don't worry. Takes time to find somebody.


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    #24
    Rozie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭Rozie


    LiouVille wrote:
    I'm going to get flamed here, maybe rightly so, for being so blunt, but how is you being alone my fault or my problem. It probably makes perfect sense to you. I "probably" wouldn't date a TS girl, therefore I'm the reason you don't have a date. And not having a partner is ruining your life somehow. Theres a current thread in PI about a 30 year old vigin, I feel for you as much as you feel for him, in that regard. When it comes to who people want to be intimate with, share their heart and soul with, the good times and the bad times and grow old with, they can have whatever criteria they want. Would you rather someone pretend to want you? Your posts would seem to suggest you would. I've come on here and been honest with you. I not read a single thing by you which would make me re-considered dating a TS girl.

    I'm saying that whatever is causing you, or other people with similiar "views" to you is generally a lack of knowledge or experience of what transsexuals are really like, and it is not down purely to people "Not being attracted" to that sort of thing.
    A few years ago - we had very few bisexuals. Now, we have loads. Heck, half the girls I know are Bi.

    Now, I think that it's actually muchly our fault for doing so little about it. Many TS people mock and reject those who actually do anything as they dont' want to be seen as coming on too strong. But it's still annoying, it's still frustrating.
    What? No they don't.

    Proof?

    I can prove mine easily, if you're gay, have you ever had to cover it up? Same concept. You didn't want to be seen as "Odd", and the TS thing is just an extension of that. Again, the point with bisexuals i made earlier... or even homosexuals. Or indeed, transsexuals. It wasn't that they weren't there, it was just that they hadn't come out of the woodwork, so to speak.


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    #25
    rsynnott
    Registered Users Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭rsynnott


    Rozie wrote:
    A few years ago - we had very few bisexuals. Now, we have loads. Heck, half the girls I know are Bi.

    No, we had the same number. They just weren't admitting it.

    Proof?

    He who makes extraordinary claims must provide extraordinary evidence.

    I can prove mine easily, if you're gay, have you ever had to cover it up?

    No.

    Same concept. You didn't want to be seen as "Odd",

    I'm quite happy to be seen as "Odd", thank you so very much.


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    #26
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Rozie wrote:
    I'm saying that whatever is causing you, or other people with similiar "views" to you is generally a lack of knowledge or experience of what transsexuals are really like, and it is not down purely to people "Not being attracted" to that sort of thing.
    A few years ago - we had very few bisexuals. Now, we have loads. Heck, half the girls I know are Bi.

    Now, I think that it's actually muchly our fault for doing so little about it. Many TS people mock and reject those who actually do anything as they dont' want to be seen as coming on too strong. But it's still annoying, it's still frustrating.

    If I had come in here and said I didn't want to be with a TS girl cause you're all mentally unstable, or you don't know what gender you are, or a dozen other ignorant prejudices, you would have a very valid point. However I said it's because I'm not attracted to androgyny, which despite all you're claims is inherent in pre-op TS. That's the Key thing. You may act, talk, walk, and feel like a woman, but you do have male organs. That blurs the line between male and female too much for me, and would make me uncomfortable to me in a relationship.

    Is it possible I'll meet someone and be able to see pass that? Absolutely, anything is possible, and that is being open minded. About as open minded as anyone can be. A willingness to accept the mere possibility that you're current view point on things may chance, under the right circumstances.


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    #27
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    There is no such thing as normal; esp if youa re looking for some one to love
    and live with and settle down and grow old with.
    Everyone has baggage and scars of many differnt types.
    But I would rather be alone then be less of who I am.

    You have to be comfotible in yourself to accpet all your quirks, wants , needs
    and desires so that no one else can make you feel like a freak.
    This goes for anyone who's so called sexuality strays out side of the
    susposed 'Norm' that is vanilla.

    You have to accept and love yourself before you will find it in others.
    It is a hard long road for a lot of people.
    You can't change what other people think or feel or them being judgemental.
    No ammount of arguing, begging, pleading, cajoling or demanding will make it so.

    If we are lucky we find people who we are be with on all levels and not
    just the physical ones. That way lies happiness not being able to and sleeping with a whole bunch of people.


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    #28
    BuffyBot
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 24,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    Good for them, and good for you. If it's their personal choice, it makes everything a trans person goes through alone a-okay.

    I'll just sit here while you and others enjoy their lives not giving a ****.

    Maybe it's just me, and maybe I'm just really cynical, but this thread seems like some kind of validation request on your behalf.

    You certainly seem to be reading way to much into other peoples preferences, that seems for sure.


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    #29
    Hmm_Messiah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭Hmm_Messiah


    I agree with buffybot
    but then I think some of us felt that in others of Rozie's threads
    Like I said before I think what Rozie needs won't be found here, and after a while we are just "feeding" something unhealthy

    btw is there a thread where rsynnott doesn't mention being the "too ugly gay guy" ?

    At least |I guess it resonates with what I see as the actual essence of this thread


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    #30
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,980 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    btw is there a thread where rsynnott doesn't mention being the "too ugly gay guy" ?

    NO

    Anyway back to the topic - I do suspect that a lot of Rozies are looking for validation and yes people are right to point that out to her but I wouldn't like to see Rozie being discouraged from posting here

    Rozie you say
    I absolutely refuse to believe that there is almost nobody out there for trans people.
    Yet almost everything else you say demonstrates that you think the opposite

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #31
    rsynnott
    Registered Users Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭rsynnott


    Johnnymcg wrote:
    NO

    Certainly there are; I REFUSE to post on sports or game boards. :)

    Anyway, Rozie, I really think you're approaching this from the wrong angle. You seem to be basing your responses mostly on Lioville's orginal response, which was perfectly reasonable in that it was his opinion. No-one is going to pretend that they're attracted to someone they're not attracted to for political correctness reasons. But where you're going wrong is that there are lots of people, transgender/sexual and not, who go out with thansgendered people. I know a girl who used to go out with a F->M transexual, for instance. As a percentage of the population they will be fairly low, and that is partly predjudice. But for instance I might well go out with a pre-op M->F transsexual; everyone's different.

    Don't worry about it; there are people out there for you.


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