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Dessie Ellis - The Sinn Fein TD who is linked to 50 murders

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    #2
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    MadsL wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/the-sinn-fein-td-who-is-linked-to-50-murders-3337801.html

    How long will he dodge resignation by saying he wouldn't be bothered?

    "I don't want to comment on anything said by the Brits. I wouldn't be bothered."

    Err. Excuse me, the electorate might want some explanation...


    Indo anti Sinn fien agenda. The PIRA killed loads of people , so did the Ira during ttoubles1919 to 1921. People voted for ff and fg down through the years. So I don't see a differents.

    The only question is do you think the troubles was politically motivated or not?
    I think they where politically motivated.
    I am sure most conservative's will think they where not.


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    #3
    Grudaire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    So... in 1981 an internal document says he's linked to 50 murders..

    Since then he was convicted once in Ireland and acquitted in London..


    Everyone already knew of Ellis's IRA links so I think this is a bit of a non-story. Charge and prosecute him, or not!

    In the meantime the indo should stop it's pro-FF anti-SF stupidity. They're both shit imo


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    #4
    rainbowdash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 878 ✭✭✭rainbowdash


    MadsL wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/the-sinn-fein-td-who-is-linked-to-50-murders-3337801.html

    How long will he dodge resignation by saying he wouldn't be bothered?

    "I don't want to comment on anything said by the Brits. I wouldn't be bothered."

    Err. Excuse me, the electorate might want some explanation...

    Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty? Do you genuinely believe British documents from the 1980's about Irish people are unbiased and fair?

    They wrongly pinned the Birmingham six for 21 murders as well around this time, do you airwash over these facts as you seek to find a man guilty of 50 murders without trial?


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    #5
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Convict him of murder and then the allegation is true, isn't that the rule of law?


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    #6
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    Could we not have a unified peace & reconciliation department where all the past murky deeds on all sides can be forgiven or dealt with in some sort of official way,Every year papers are released about secretive Government thinking at the time.


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    #7
    RATM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭RATM


    Cliste wrote: »
    So... in 1981 an internal document says he's linked to 50 murders..

    Since then he was convicted once in Ireland and acquitted in London..


    Everyone already knew of Ellis's IRA links so I think this is a bit of a non-story. Charge and prosecute him, or not!

    In the meantime the indo should stop it's pro-FF anti-SF stupidity. They're both shit imo

    Not at all- I didn't as I was born when he was an active member and I only just found out the extent of his membership through this article.

    It's kind of funny as in July 2011 I applied for a new Passport through the Passport Express system. It's supposed to take 10 days so I allowed 15 before my holidays. 13 days passed and it still hadn't arrived so after several hours of the passport office not answering their phones I started ringing around TD's.

    The only one who was of any help was Dessie Ellis. I spoke to him myself and he told me that the Passport Office had told all TD's not to be bothering them with consitiuents inquiries (this is as well as not answering their phones to said inquires) . But Dessie said he had a plan and that he knew someone who had an alternate phone number that would get straight through to a manager's desk. He rang be back in 5 minutes and told me my passport would be posted by 12pm and would be with me the following day.

    I've only good things to say about Dessie Ellis as a result, he helped me out of a huge hole and saved my holidays (and saved me wasting €700 on a flight and more on accommodation). I never knew that he was allegedly a bomb maker for the IRA until this article, I'm in a little bit of shock now at finding out. But all I can say is that in my own experience he is a gentleman.


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    #8
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    RATM wrote: »
    Not at all- I didn't as I was born when he was an active member and I only just found out the extent of his membership through this article.

    It was well known locally about his past when he first got elected to DCC in 1999 onwards. The attitude on the street in Finglas was that he went through the legal process(served time for any convictions) and largely got elected on local issues rather than the national question.


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    #9
    Grudaire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    He's a very good politician who is respected locally. He plays the right game in helping constituents like yourself.

    But I think if you try and look up anything online about him, or asked around about him then you would have heard of the links handy enough. I too was born more recently than his actions, but already heard about his PIRA links by the time I was 13!


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    #10
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,965 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    rainbowdash wrote: »
    Do you genuinely believe British documents from the 1980's about Irish people are unbiased and fair?
    Do you genuinely believe that documents about Irish people are biased because they are British?

    Do you genuinely believe that all these allegations are the result some anti-Irish sentiment in the UK, and it's only being reported here due to an "anti-Sinn-Fein agenda"? If so, why just this one TD, and not all Sinn Fein TDs?

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



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    #11
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    The establishment doesn't want the spotlight shone on it by SF so it tries to deflect its glare by bringing up the conflict.


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    #12
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    rainbowdash wrote: »
    Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty? Do you genuinely believe British documents from the 1980's about Irish people are unbiased and fair?

    They wrongly pinned the Birmingham six for 21 murders as well around this time, do you airwash over these facts as you seek to find a man guilty of 50 murders without trial?
    He was proven guilty on explosive charges and no one is saying he is guilty of anything else, just asking him to comment on the papers.
    Not unreasonable given that he is a serving TD.


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    #13
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    The establishment doesn't want the spotlight shone on it by SF so it tries to deflect its glare by bringing up the conflict.
    I thought these were UK papers?

    Are you suggesting an international conspiracy?


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    #14
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    dvpower wrote: »
    I thought these were UK papers?

    Independent.ie National News in the OP's link?
    Are you suggesting an international conspiracy?

    Yes. The lizard people want Irish blood - they're enthralled by its greenish hue.


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    #15
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MadsL wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/the-sinn-fein-td-who-is-linked-to-50-murders-3337801.html

    How long will he dodge resignation by saying he wouldn't be bothered?

    "I don't want to comment on anything said by the Brits. I wouldn't be bothered."

    Err. Excuse me, the electorate might want some explanation...


    I'm reasonably sure that (a) Sinn Fein won't want his resignation due to alleged republican activity (b) the electorate may have twigged he was a bit of a republican when they voted for him.


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    #16
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Independent.ie National News in the OP's link?



    Yes. The lizard people want Irish blood - they're enthralled by its greenish hue.

    I understand. You didn't read the article at all.
    The document is one of a large tranche of British government files from 1982
    that have been released by the National Archives in London.


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    #17
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,466 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    No surprise there. Sure it is well established that he was *ahem* 'allegedly' one of the most utilized bomb makers for the IRA.
    Cliste wrote: »
    He's a very good politician who is respected locally.

    Perhaps that is the case. Still doesn't necessarily mean that there is not blood on his hands.

    The ironic thing is that figures such as Ellis are adored by the SF party faithful as opposed to other 'blow-ins' who are often viewed with suspicion by the membership. However, it is the very characters such as Ellis and Adams, who are linked to the atrocities of the past, who are holding SF back. This issue represents the greatest challenge for SF into the future. They need to let those who are untainted by the Troubles have a more prominent role in the party. However doing so will likely dissatisfy the core hardcore republican element of the party alongside the Northern Irish wing of the party. I personally feel a split is inevitable down the line if they cannot manage the transition smoothly.


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    #18
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    dvpower wrote: »
    I understand. You didn't read the article at all.

    You're not making much sense tbh. The docs are British but the news story is national news (or at least an attempt to make national news).
    He declined to comment on the newly released papers from 1982. "No, I won't be saying anything," Mr Ellis told the Irish Independent.

    I just did a quick google news search of 'Dessie Ellis' and it appears the only news outlet reporting on these documents is the Irish Independent.

    You've brought up UK papers not me.


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    #19
    Fattes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭Fattes


    I would be more worried about the current FG senators and TD’S starting the process of censoring the internet, under the cover of protecting mentally unstable people, rather than what happened in the past and has long since been dealt with.

    Continent that the Indo are running with stories from long ago rather than dealing with the bigger current issue of the party they financially bank role!


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    #20
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    You're not making much sense tbh. The docs are British but the news story is national news (or at least an attempt to make national news).



    I just did a quick google news search of 'Dessie Ellis' and it appears the only news outlet reporting on these documents is the Irish Independent.

    You've brought up UK papers not me.
    The papers that were released were UK Government papers. That is the 'papers' I'm referring to.

    You appear to think that a serving TD being linked to 50 murders by the UK government isn't newsworthy and the motive for publishing this news is just down to the 'establishment' deflecting.

    Can you see how crazy that sounds?


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    #21
    Fattes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭Fattes


    Lads lets be honest, any member of Sinn Fein that was active in the 70’s and 80’s is likely to have been involved in paramilitary activities at some level or other and is likely to have knowledge that could help solve some of the crimes of the period that have gone unanswered.

    This is not news to me or a large % of the Irish Public, there are bigger fish out there right now, was Gerry Adams the head of the IRA? It is at very worst highly likely, was Martin McGuinness on the Army council again highly likely is there anyone out there that believes otherwise even when they are lying through their teeth probably not.

    Time to move on and deal with the Present and the issues that are in the now not the past, would I ever vote for SF probably not as their economic policies are the stuff of fantasy!


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    #22
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    dvpower wrote: »
    You appear to think that a serving TD being linked to 50 murders by the UK government isn't newsworthy

    As was said above the people who democratically elected him are well aware that they were electing someone who was involved with the conflict so I'm not sure these British documents (not legal findings that have been proved in a court of law mind) will be of any great interest.
    and the motive for publishing this news is just down to the 'establishment' deflecting. Can you see how crazy that sounds?

    Ah yes. Crazy because such a motive could never exist and those in positions of influence and power are unquestionably virtuous. I just can't buy into the 'sunshine and lollipops' view of politics and media I'm afraid.


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    #23
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Sinn Fein really has such an odd attitude towards the IRA. On the one hand it has never divorced itself from or really condemned the IRA, and is happy with former IRA members in the party. On the other hand it acts outraged if anyone raises what the IRA did. I mean if Dessie Ellis is quite happy to say he operated at the highest levels in the IRA, why doesn't he be specific on what he did. Either he's embarrassed about his association with a violent organisation or he isn't.

    I can't help but think that if, for example, questions about the tax affairs of a TD of another party were raised and they said they couldn't be bothered responding, what Sinn Fein's reaction would be?


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    #24
    golfball37
    Registered Users Posts: 4,579 ✭✭✭golfball37


    Its heartening to know at least one media outlet has its finger on the pulse as to what the real pressing issues are for the Irish people. A self confessed senior IRA member was involved in mass murder 30 years ago.

    What next? Will IRA men be implicated in the Titantic sinking just as we receive our 2nd bailout.


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    #25
    spikethedog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 209 ✭✭spikethedog


    MadsL wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/the-sinn-fein-td-who-is-linked-to-50-murders-3337801.html

    How long will he dodge resignation by saying he wouldn't be bothered?

    "I don't want to comment on anything said by the Brits. I wouldn't be bothered."

    Err. Excuse me, the electorate might want some explanation...

    A convicted IRA man, now a politician here was involved in the troubles in the north. Shock, horror!!!
    In other news, the sun rose again this morning and it might rain today!

    Any documents released on Eamon Gilmore's connection to the workers party and the OIRA around the same time?


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    #26
    rainbowdash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 878 ✭✭✭rainbowdash


    dvpower wrote: »
    He was proven guilty on explosive charges and no one is saying he is guilty of anything else, just asking him to comment on the papers.
    Not unreasonable given that he is a serving TD.


    He did comment, he said he couldn't be bothered with something the Brits said 30 years ago.

    As you said he was convicted of explosives charges, why not ask him to comment on something he actually did do?


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    #27
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    As for the conspiracy angle, the British government always releases previously classified materials to the National Archives at this time of year. British papers today have lots of stories about the material released.


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    #28
    spikethedog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 209 ✭✭spikethedog


    Anyone read the comments at the foot of the Indo's story?
    A non-story if ever there was one. Nobody cares.
    Comments about kenny & gilmore avoiding questions in the dail by using Jean McConville's name or asking how many bodies did SF bury in Ireland.
    Pathetic politicians are what people are interested in.


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    #29
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    No surprise there. Sure it is well established that he was *ahem* 'allegedly' one of the most utilized bomb makers for the IRA.


    Perhaps he's had a change of principles since the early 80's though?

    The early eighties were a troubled time in Irish history after all.

    People are allowed a change in their stance of principles aren't they?


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    #30
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    On the other hand it acts outraged if anyone raises what the IRA did.

    1. There's a time and a place. If a tough question is raised by a SF member and the answer is 'but Jean Mc Conville' then the question gets avoided. FGS the boards moderators will pull people up here for whataboutery and avoiding questions yet our elected officials get away with it? Is that right? Who does it serve?

    2. Security. There are still plenty of people alive who could be implicated in the conflict, precariously so. We seen what happened to Denis Donaldson when he was outed as a SF informant.

    3. Double standards. Many think it's perfectly acceptable for the British (all states) to have secrecy laws and 50 year moratoriums (leaving aside eternal secrecy and denial) and yet expect to hold SF to a higher standard. Spill your guts lads but we're alight Jack.

    3. Context. Sound bites are useless at forming an accurate picture of the past. There was a conflict on. Plucking individual events out and putting them under the microscope is mostly a waste of time and just more attempts to deflect attention from the bigger picture or current travails.


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    #31
    rainbowdash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 878 ✭✭✭rainbowdash


    bnt wrote: »
    Do you genuinely believe that documents about Irish people are biased because they are British?

    Do you genuinely believe that all these allegations are the result some anti-Irish sentiment in the UK, and it's only being reported here due to an "anti-Sinn-Fein agenda"? If so, why just this one TD, and not all Sinn Fein TDs?

    There was massive anti Irish sentiment in the UK in the early 1980's, so yes documents about Irish people were biased, the best examples being the Birmingham 6 "confessions"

    Of course there is an element of truth in British allegations against known Irish republicans, but I don't think Dessie Ellis needs to bother commenting on anything other than allegations proven in court, but there is no headline for the papers in that.


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