MPEG4 Irish DTT: BCI & Launch issues

keith99 · 12-06-2008 11:03am #1

Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) from the home page of the RTENL website www.rtenl.ie

The Department of Communications Energy and Natural Resources has indicated that the current DTT trial will end on 31st July 2008. This trial provides services on four DTT multiplexes, three of which are encrypted. The free-to-air multiplex carries the four national television channels and a number of radio services using MPEG2 encoding.

keith99 · 12-06-2008 11:08am

Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT)

The Department of Communications Energy and Natural Resources has indicated that the current DTT trial will end on 31st July 2008. This trial provides services on four DTT multiplexes, three of which are encrypted. The free-to-air multiplex carries the four national television channels and a number of radio services using MPEG2 encoding.

The Broadcasting Commission of Ireland (BCI) has advertised three DTT multiplex licences. The closing date for receipt of completed applications is Friday 2nd May 2008. The Commission will decide the outcome of this competition at its meeting on 21st July 2008.

Please note that both RTÉ and the BCI have indicated that MPEG4 will be used as the encoding standard on all DTT multiplexes and not MPEG2 as used by Freeview in the UK. This means that the national television services will NOT be available using a “Freeview” box once DTT is formally launched in Ireland.

Mossy Monk · 12-06-2008 12:10pm

Here is hoping nobody took the advice spouted here last year by someone about going up north to buy a TV for DTT.

rlogue · 12-06-2008 12:59pm

Wasn't that ftakeith who suggested that one? ;-)

Zaphod · 12-06-2008 1:21pm

That the commercial muxes will be mpeg4 is hardly a surprise at this stage. But if the public mux will be mpeg4, why are RTÉ transmitting in mpeg2 from Mount Leinster?

[edit] Actually has anyone with a DVB-T card or dongle looked at the network info for Mount Leinster? Does it show BT Ireland as the network provider as with the DCENR trial? Are RTÉ simply retransmitting the DCENR feed?

ffocused · 12-06-2008 1:57pm

Mt. Leinster is flagged as BT Ireland.

Myxomatosis · 12-06-2008 2:22pm

Ah that website again, unstoppable auto scrolling text is just genius.

Mossy Monk · 12-06-2008 4:29pm

rlogue wrote: »

Wasn't that ftakeith who suggested that one? ;-)

It sure was.

Psygnosis · 12-06-2008 7:06pm

Hi,
So this mean no more Digital RTE stations after the date. What about with a mpeg4 box or mpeg4 cam? would it be free with that.

Mossy Monk · 12-06-2008 7:43pm

I'd imagine so as RTÉ services will be FTA.

homer911 · 12-06-2008 8:34pm

Pardon my ignorance, but what does this mean for me and my 6 month old Sony Bravia that only supports MPEG-2 and DVB-T/DVB-C?

Myxomatosis · 12-06-2008 9:13pm

homer911 wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance, but what does this mean for me and my 6 month old Sony Bravia that only supports MPEG-2 and DVB-T/DVB-C?

It means that you'll have to buy the set-top boxes which will appear in stores when the official service is up and running.

SPDUB · 12-06-2008 9:51pm

keith99 wrote: »

The Department of Communications Energy and Natural Resources has indicated that the current DTT trial will end on 31st July 2008.

Please note that both RTÉ and the BCI have indicated that MPEG4 will be used as the encoding standard on all DTT multiplexes and not MPEG2 as used by Freeview in the UK.

Does this mean they will be shutting down the current transmissions of RTE etc after July 31st until they can change the transmitters to MPEG4

homer911 · 12-06-2008 9:53pm

Maybe I'll just go with a Freesat box/PVR and good riddance to RTE/TV3/TG4 We will be waiting a while for Irish DTT!

Nice timing actually. The Freesat boxes with PVR should be out before they switch off the DTT Trial - I presume they will stop broadcasting as soon as the trial is over

JHMEG · 12-06-2008 9:59pm

Or just keep watching the RTEs on analog. The picture is often better especially when there's a match on. MPEG doesn't like grass...

radiospan · 13-06-2008 2:50pm

So will there be another trial now for MPEG4 before launch?

JHMEG wrote: »

Or just keep watching the RTEs on analog. The picture is often better especially when there's a match on. MPEG doesn't like grass...

For Euro 2008 anyway, RTE probably get the feed over digital satellite in MPEG4.

Mayo Exile · 13-06-2008 2:59pm

So its completely blank screens for everybody after July 31st, whether you have an official trial box or a UK Freeview box, until the official service starts?:mad:

zanardi · 13-06-2008 3:42pm

Myxomatosis wrote: »

It means that you'll have to buy the set-top boxes which will appear in stores when the official service is up and running.

If we can afford them. It's going to be tough for manufacturers to make cheap skus for ireland with the numbers involved.

This is going to be as sucessful as on digital was.

At least we may get some free rte in widescreen via rte international fta, albeit 3mb/s mpeg2. Ironic in that freesat boxes are all mpeg4 capable.

The rtenl site does say that freeview boxes will not work once the new service is up, so the end of july may not be the end - they've left some wriggle room.

homer911 · 13-06-2008 5:48pm

Fo some reason the analogue signal is c**p on my Sony Bravia, even when using the same aerial as on my old CRT TV

Rippy · 13-06-2008 7:05pm

homer911 wrote: »

Fo some reason the analogue signal is c**p on my Sony Bravia, even when using the same aerial as on my old CRT TV

That's a shame!
But just what does it have to do with a discussion on compression standard for DTT?

Mossy Monk · 13-06-2008 7:30pm

Mayo Exile wrote: »

So its completely blank screens for everybody after July 31st, whether you have an official trial box or a UK Freeview box, until the official service starts?:mad:

Oh lordy, who could have known that this trial would end.

Pat Gleeson · 13-06-2008 7:52pm

homer911 wrote: »

Fo some reason the analogue signal is c**p on my Sony Bravia, even when using the same aerial as on my old CRT TV

I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm sure Watty will agree: CRT always gives a better picture from an analogue signal than Plasma or LCD - especially LCD **

** That part is my opinion

As for the title of this thread, two points:

1. The BCI indicated as much months ago that Irish DTT would be MPEG4
2. Watty is always right

watty · 13-06-2008 9:01pm

You are confusing me with Chuck Norris and Bruce Schneier

Lots of people said:
1) The trials will end in July/August
2) It will be MPEG4 for real service
3) Current RTE stuff is just engineering tests.

MPEG2 is easier to source and MPEG4/MPEG2 makes no difference to coverage, interference etc...

I can't take any credit

Note:
http://www.schneier.com/index.html
http://www.chucknorris.com/

John Dough · 13-06-2008 10:37pm

Mayo Exile wrote: »

So its completely blank screens for everybody after July 31st, whether you have an official trial box or a UK Freeview box, until the official service starts?:mad:

So where are all these new trial boxes then for 1st August 2008 Mpeg 4???

The official research company have not heard of any new boxes .

Does it not seem strange that they test a box with mpeg 2 for 2 years and then decide on mpeg 4 or is it just PR exercise from DCMR.;)

Pat Gleeson · 13-06-2008 11:05pm

watty wrote: »

You are confusing me with Chuck Norris and Bruce Schneier

OK, my mistake

maxg · 14-06-2008 12:03am

John Dough wrote: »

So where are all these new trial boxes then for 1st August 2008 Mpeg 4???

The official research company have not heard of any new boxes .

Does it not seem strange that they test a box with mpeg 2 for 2 years and then decide on mpeg 4 or is it just PR exercise from DCMR.;)

The HD test channel is already beeing broadcasted in mpeg4 and there was a SD mpeg4 test channel.
If or what RTE is planing for the gap between 1st August and official DTT rollout nobody knows.

watty · 14-06-2008 8:40am

The trial was just a PR exercise for EU to show we doing something.
Since we "really" are doing something now, the trial is ending. Pretty much as forecast at the start.

Between July 2008 (now ish) and official launch next year there will be tests. Supposedly all 11 or 13 initial sites by end of Autumn.

Test transmissions may not be representative of MPEG2/MPEG4 or EPG etc in official launch, but just DTT signals to test installations and co-channel interference and coverage.

hellboy99 · 14-06-2008 11:52am

Pat Gleeson wrote: »

I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm sure Watty will agree: CRT always gives a better picture from an analogue signal than Plasma or LCD - especially LCD **

+1

scath · 14-06-2008 9:07pm

There's a guy who sells laptops in the laptop place in aungier street who I spoke to a few weeks ago while looking at some 'tops there and he has a pal working on the trial in the engineering end. It came up as I was asking about DVB-T sticks to pick up the trial. Well he said, from what his friend understood, that the trial would go on beyond August til at least the end of the year. That makes me think the trial will be extended until the point that the DTT winner gets up and running. I would think that remaining issues like digital teletext working on all boxes etc will be resolved by then, that epg's will be perfected. Til the end of the year will give the winner that 2 or 3 months to design with RTE the common EPG so that at least the PSB mux end is available. I would think what will happen is the common EPG. I don't know can they send a software upgrade for it over the air or will trialists need to connect the box in for an upload to the internet using cat 5 cable. I imagine OTA should be possible. Once that's up and running its only a matter of some channels available becoming encrypted to not work with the DCENR card using the software update. I would say this will happen between August and December. I could be wrong, and partially am guessing cos I think August 2009 is launch date and perfecting software for a various number of stb of different manufacturers is the priority before public launch. So who knows, but I'd say there'll be contact between the DTT winner and trialists and these may become the feedback and test group for the DTT winner.

The other thing I'm enquiring is why or if they'll use DVB-H to upgrade the network. Presumably its not to late to change to DVB-H before they upgrade any more transmitters. I suppose there'd be a problem with the trial set top boxes and an issue about enough DVB-H usb sticks or sourcing DVB-H stb's. I wonder why two years ago it wasn't considered? I shall find out. Otherwise anyone know the possible reasons. Spectrumwise would be like killing two birds with one chunk of frequency ie TV set, laptop and mobile phone in one go..pre switchover. Laptop TV not requiring internet data charges is a potential winner for the DTT consortium if with masts, infill and transmitters that DVB-H was used.

Just to clarify, haven't heard officially but unofficially beyond August is presumed.

reslfj · 14-06-2008 9:53pm

scath wrote: »

The other thing I'm enquiring is why or if they'll use DVB-H to upgrade the network.

DVB-H is an obsolete technology for mobile-TV to small screens on handheld devices -256 kbps. DVB-H has been build on top of DVB-T, that, as you may know, will be replaced by DVB-T2 from November 2009 in the UK (first on 1 out of the 6 UK-multiplexes).

But you may ask, why all viewers in Ireland should be forced to purchase STB to an aging standard - when the hugely better DVB-T2 standard will be available in 12-15 month from now.

Lars

Mayo Exile · 16-06-2008 8:59am

Originally posted by Mossy Monk: Oh lordy, who could have known that this trial would end.

The trial was a handy way of getting decent RTE pictures if you didn't have access to an external analogue aerial. Will miss the free premiership footie too.:( Hopefully Scath's scenario proves to be true.

MPEG4 Irish DTT: BCI & Launch issues

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