Final table situation, player requests other players to move around?

BigCityBanker · 20-08-2007 4:57pm #1

This popped up last night at the FT of Veras game,

Im drawn in seat 4, seat 5 and 6 have been knocked out.

Seat 1 requests that we remove the mid empty seats and that I pull around so that everyone can spread out.

I refuse to move from my assigned spot. He complains that he cant see seat 8 or 9 and I retort that its his luck of the draw. He is none too impressed with my refusal to move.

Personally I like to be angled to the table. I always try to avoid mid table. 2/3 or 8/9 are my preferred at a 10 handed cash game.

From seat 4, I angle myself towards the centre of the table, that means my eyes are focussed towards the middle, I can raise my right hand and rest my head/protect my face from those to my right when im in a pot. This makes me more comfortable and makes it easier for me to hide my sick tells. If I move to mid table I am giving up some of my advantage and comfort zone.

Thoughts on the whole situation? I feel I was within my rights to refuse and would personally refuse to move again in the same situation arose.

Am I out of order?

Hitman Actual · 20-08-2007 5:05pm

BigCityBanker wrote:

This popped up last night at the FT of Veras game,

Im drawn in seat 4, seat 5 and 6 have been knocked out.

Seat 1 requests that we remove the mid empty seats and that I pull around so that everyone can spread out.

I refuse to move from my assigned spot. He complains that he cant see seat 8 or 9 and I retort that its his luck of the draw. He is none too impressed with my refusal to move.

Personally I like to be angled to the table. I always try to avoid mid table. 2/3 or 8/9 are my preferred at a 10 handed cash game.

From seat 4, I angle myself towards the centre of the table, that means my eyes are focussed towards the middle, I can raise my right hand and rest my head/protect my face from those to my right when im in a pot. This makes me more comfortable and makes it easier for me to hide my sick tells. If I move to mid table I am giving up some of my advantage and comfort zone.

Thoughts on the whole situation? I feel I was within my rights to refuse and would personally refuse to move again in the same situation arose.

Am I out of order?

You're within your rights to stay, but I think you're out of order. I think it's basic table manners to move around and allow seat 1 to see the table. There's nothing worse than being stuck in seat 1/9 at a final table. If the situations were reversed, you'd like other players to move around, I think?

5starpool · 20-08-2007 5:05pm

Technically you were within your rights, but I think you were wrong not to move around.

BigCityBanker · 20-08-2007 5:08pm

lenny_leonard wrote:

If the situations were reversed, you'd like other players to move around, I think?

fair point - personally id never ask and if refused I couldnt see myself getting stroppy over it.

why should i give up my comfort zone?

kryogen · 20-08-2007 5:09pm

you can refuse if you want yes, you are within your rights, but to be honest if i was in this situation and a guy refused to move so that everybody culd have some more space id probably call him a nit lol:D

unless the dealer/TD asks you to move i dont think you have to anyway! plus you probably tilted the guy a little by your refusal as im sure he now thinks your an a** h***

nh,wp...

LuckyLloyd · 20-08-2007 5:09pm

This post has been deleted.

Hitman Actual · 20-08-2007 5:15pm

BigCityBanker wrote:

why should i give up my comfort zone?

If it's really going to affect your game, then don't move, I suppose. I've just never seen a situation where someone wouldn't move. Generally players seem to spread out naturally as others get knocked out, in my experience.

bohsman · 20-08-2007 5:24pm

Sitting in seat 4 on a 9 handed table you should be in the centre of the table anyway, seat 5 should be directly facing the dealer.

BigCityBanker · 20-08-2007 5:29pm

bohsman wrote:

Sitting in seat 4 on a 9 handed table you should be in the centre of the table anyway, seat 5 should be directly facing the dealer.

yes but im not exactly in the middle of the table as i was requested to do. from seat 4 I can angle myself slightly.

I find it somewhat odd, that when playing for a 4k first prize that people would readily move away from their comfort zone and in doing so give up what they deem to be some of their advantage in order to accommodate another player moving towards his comfort zone and in doing so assist him in gaining an advantage. It just doesn't make sense to me.

thoughts on this perspective?

opr · 20-08-2007 5:30pm

Man your an *ssh*le.

BTW - I don't know you , have never met or played with you this was just my feelings while i was reading this.

opr

mrflash · 20-08-2007 5:32pm

i think you should've moved around, for your own sake. firstly its a final table, its not like the tourney has just started and some guys are probably getting a little tired, you should show a bit of respect to fellow poker players who have played well enough to be at a final table.
secondly, by not moving around, you have annoyed probably everyone at the table, and made yourself enemy no.1.
thirdly, it will happen some day that you are the one looking for a bit more room, and one of these guys who holds a grudge will be there to make sure you remain uncomfortable.

Theresalwaysone · 20-08-2007 5:39pm

You were within you rights not to move and I dont think that you not moving makes you an a$$hole although for everyones comfort and to keep the atmosphere of a good game so friendly I would have moved.

Now if this was the WSOP or a big money tournament and not a friendly birthday bash for a stalwart of the irish scene I would have stayed put if I felt it gave me an advantage and kept me comfortable.

BigCityBanker · 20-08-2007 5:39pm

opr wrote:

Man your an *ssh*le.

lol and you must be what 13? 14 maybe?

mrflash wrote:

i think you should've moved around, for your own sake. firstly its a final table, its not like the tourney has just started and some guys are probably getting a little tired, you should show a bit of respect to fellow poker players who have played well enough to be at a final table.

I am tired also - ahy should i give up my comfort for the benefit of others?

mrflash wrote:

secondly, by not moving around, you have annoyed probably everyone at the table, and made yourself enemy no.1.

that doens't really concern me - im just gonna play my cards.

mrflash wrote:

thirdly, it will happen some day that you are the one looking for a bit more room, and one of these guys who holds a grudge will be there to make sure you remain uncomfortable.

no it wont. I dont recall ever looking for more room or asking somebody to move at the poker table when it wasnt an issue of seat balancing. I will frequently ask for a table to be balanced if i feel people have more than their fair share. fwiw, I feel having made the ft a player should get as comfortable as he can and focus on his cards and the players around him - if he is concerning himself with others luxuries or what not then he isnt in the correct frame of mind.

RoundTower · 20-08-2007 5:42pm

agree with everyone else, you should move and you are being a dick if you don't.

bill_ashmount · 20-08-2007 5:43pm

opr wrote:

Man your an *ssh*le.

BTW - I don't know you , have never met or played with you this was just my feelings while i was reading this.

opr

No offence, but that's exactly what my first thought was as well.

sumoward · 20-08-2007 5:46pm

I was watching this from the "rail". I know the guy who asked and he is a decent fellow.

By not moving you kept to your comfort zone which adds to your game. Watching him you also gained some small advantage in refusing as you irritated him and it did effect his play(IMHO).

In terms of gamesmanship you were correct, in terms of courtesy not so correct!

Poker is ultimately about winning so sacrificing courtesy for a victory is purely your call.

In terms of pure gamesmanship is there any advantage in being accommodating to a player in that they might play "lightly" against you.

opr · 20-08-2007 5:49pm

BigCityBanker wrote:

lol and you must be what 13? 14 maybe?

You asked for comments on what people thought of your action in this situation.

I thought it was representative of someone who is an a**ho**. In regards to your comments can you please refrain from personal insults please. I was giving comment on your post not on you so try and do the same.

Opr

Fatboydim · 20-08-2007 5:49pm

Agree with OPR and MR Flash. My first thought were A*hole.

But I'd also be concerned that you seem to be so affected by something as trivial as moving over a few inches. Seriously you need to work on that. It's like someone not playing well because they left their lucky card capper at home. I'm sure it's a genuine concern for you, but of course you are going to have to get used to playing from any and every seat.

And most importantly as Mr Flash pointed out - you can make yourself a target unnecessarily.

kincsem · 20-08-2007 5:50pm

I think you should even out the spacing, as long as you are not asked to move well away from your original position (say three places). I've never heard of a player refusing to help.

I was in seat 1 in the Irish Open. It was a nightmare. I would have won the tourney easily with a good draw.

Mr.Plough · 20-08-2007 5:53pm

ballspace >> giving away tells

BigCityBanker · 20-08-2007 5:55pm

opr wrote:

In regards to your comments can you please refrain from personal insults please. I was giving comment on your post not on you so try and do the same.

Opr

Am I missing something here? you said "man your an asshole" and you are now asking me to refrain from insulting you??

would the movers care to address this point?

BCB wrote:

I find it somewhat odd, that when playing for a 4k first prize that people would readily move away from their comfort zone and in doing so give up what they deem to be some of their advantage in order to accommodate another player moving towards his comfort zone and in doing so assist him in gaining an advantage. It just doesn't make sense to me.

FBD wrote:

something as trivial as moving over a few inches.

Len, he was asking for 2 seats to be removed and for me to move across, I was not been asked to move a "few inches"

BigCityBanker · 20-08-2007 5:57pm

kincsem wrote:

I think you should even out the spacing, as long as you are not asked to move well away from your original position (say three places). I've never heard of a player refusing to help.

As in my previous post - he was asking for two seats to be removed and for me to move across. This wasnt a 6 inch arse shuffle.

opr · 20-08-2007 6:03pm

BigCityBanker wrote:

Am I missing something here? you said "man your an asshole" and you are now asking me to refrain from insulting you??

opr wrote:

Man your an *ssh*le.

BTW - I don't know you , have never met or played with you this was just my feelings while i was reading this.

opr

I think you choose to ignore that i premised this statement with my added commments. This was not a reflection on you but on what i had read of your actions and this is clearly shown in the above quote.

It also seems i am not the only person of this view.

Opr

Wombatman · 20-08-2007 6:04pm

Moving seats together or taking out would give room for others to move without you having to do a thing.
A dick would do this without reason. Your reasons were sound if a little thin.
Probably as thin as those of person who requested movement.

kincsem · 20-08-2007 6:04pm

You asked for an opinion, but you have not yet (as far as I can see) said how many players were at the table, and in which seats. You said seats 5 and 6 were empty. I would expect you to move one place to your left (but I don't have full info).

mdwexford · 20-08-2007 6:07pm

Bad table manners imo.

I understand your points for not moving but unless it was someone i didnt like and i was deliberately being a *****r in retaliation for something they had done earlier i wouldnt mind pushing around.

BigCityBanker · 20-08-2007 6:11pm

kincsem wrote:

You asked for an opinion, but you have not yet (as far as I can see) said how many players were at the table, and in which seats. You said seats 5 and 6 were empty. I would expect you to move one place to your left (but I don't have full info).

we were 7 handed - seats 5 and 6 were empty. he asked for seats 5 and 6 to be removed, for me to move across towards the player in seat 7 so that he could swing out to c. where seat 2 was and have a better view on things.

5starpool · 20-08-2007 6:17pm

Are you saying Noel that if you were in seat 5 you would have been less likely to win? I generally agree with your preference for an angle seat, but in this instance I don't think there is a lot of difference. Chances are that none of the players there were skillful enough to tell by having a better look at your face what you held anyhow, and if they did this is your issue. This isn't a dig at other players as 99.9% of players are not that skillful, including me.

Also, you asked for opinions, and you got them, most people disagree with your actions. No one died though as a result.

mdwexford · 20-08-2007 6:18pm

Did you know the guy Noel and would it have made a difference if you did??

Waylander · 20-08-2007 6:19pm

I can see your point BCB but I think I would have moved. Having said that, if it was an mtt and I had been playing for hours, and someone refused to move in that situation, it could set them tilting, which is of course to your advantage. Its a bit similar to thrash talking and where you decide you draw the line. For example Tony G is an asshole, but his mouthing has been known to put players oin tilt, so he thinks it is worthwhile.

Fatboydim · 20-08-2007 6:20pm

BigCityBanker wrote:

Len, he was asking for 2 seats to be removed and for me to move across, I was not been asked to move a "few inches"

LOL ok a couple of feet then

And we all know you're not like that really...

Final table situation, player requests other players to move around?

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