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Children penalised for the actions of parents

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24567…24

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    #32
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    Valetta wrote: »
    The criteria for qualifying for a grant is based on the parents income.

    It seems perpectly reasonable to me to ensure they are tax compliant before approving a grant.
    Flipping it on its head: Should parents be allowed to get away under-declaration of income in order for their children to 'qualify' for a grant?

    This is no different.

    The big stupid mistake in rolling out the household tax was placing the onus on the householder to pay it rather than just collecting it through the revenue.

    We have enough historical data to know that 'Pay as your caught' taxes don't work evenly or fairly. TV License anyone? Road tax? Green diesel?


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    #33
    littlejp
    Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭littlejp


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I'm worried about the precedent this will set. Will we have to prove we have paid car tax etc now in the future before we can access state money.

    No. But you have to prove that your car is taxed if you want to drive your car on a public road.

    Why shouldn't people have to prove they have paid a tax which is to go towards local government services to avail of a local government service like a grant?


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    #34
    Anyone
    Registered Users Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Anyone


    Biggins wrote: »
    1. When is going to college anywhere in the country "local services? That's just stretching things completely to suit!

    2. Go after the parents then in court and get them to pay up!
    Whats the problem with that?
    No - but in the meanwhile, lets be so fcuking bitter that the state picks on the offspring - who are innocent by the way.
    They are a separate legal entity - well unless you remarkably can prove different!



    People are already paying hand over fist in many, many other ways to the state.
    You forgot to mention that!

    The local authorities process grant applications, thats the local service, I never said anything about going to college/university.


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    #35
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    As one person stated in the Indo':
    Great idea. Stop educating the brightest in the country for the sake of 100 euro..


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    #36
    bamboozle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    Biggins wrote: »
    Irish children penalised for the actions of parents...

    Is this what our state has come to?


    http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/education/latest-news/fury-as-council-blocks-student-grants-over-household-charge-3233555.html

    I'm NOT here to argue for/against the household charge - there's a thread for that HERE.
    ...Have our present government become so low and fcuking bitter that they are hitting out at offspring for what is clearly the separate decisions of others?

    Feel free to disagree with me but I think its fcuking disgusting!

    ok, i disagree.


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    #37
    jessiejam
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭jessiejam


    I do pay plenty of taxes.

    Car tax
    PRSI
    USC
    Income tax
    TV licence.



    Its not my problem that the council can't budget or balance their books. Pack of fukin eejits. Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrell.


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    #38
    Anyone
    Registered Users Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Anyone


    JRant wrote: »
    Try telling that to the local councils when applying. As far as they are concerned you are a 'dependant' while living at home or even living in student accomodation. Therefore in their eyes the student is still classed as a child.

    Dependant and child are totally different, I said what I said initially because the OP posted the thread in a dramatic style. "Omg the children, the children" feck off they arent children.


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    #39
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Biggins wrote: »
    As one person stated in the Indo':
    Only thats not true. They can still get educated.

    It's more like don't support those that don't contribute; pay in & you get out.
    Fair enough to me.


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    #40
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    Anyone wrote: »
    Anybody going to college/university is not a child.

    In that case, I don't know where my 17 year old has been going every day for the last two weeks....I was sure it was a college.

    Oh well.


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    #41
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    Biggins wrote: »
    As one person stated in the Indo':
    Great idea. Stop educating the brightest in the country for the sake of 100 euro..
    It would take some serious dumb-ass parents to not stump up that €100 if they're going to lose thousands in grant money over it.


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    #42
    neverfindaname
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭neverfindaname


    allibastor wrote: »
    welcome to Ireland. Home of the most rediculos government ever. whats next, dont pay your TV licence and have your first born taken.


    I'd be all on for that :p


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    #43
    The Idyll Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I'm worried about the precedent this will set. Will we have to prove we have paid car tax etc now in the future before we can access state money.

    Yes. Pay your taxes like the rest of us have to do so you are entitled to access services. Anyone in receipt of any benefit should have to have a tax clearance certificate. That includes Bertie.

    Elect a different TD if you don't agree with how the country is run.


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    #44
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Zulu wrote: »
    ...The grant is linked to the income of the parent. If you don't bother paying, you are depriving others. Frankly it's just that you are the first to suffer.

    "oh won't someone think of the children" :rolleyes:

    Well done, The grant is linked to the income of the parent.
    Not the word "income" - not for the possible crimes of the parent!

    ...But some for the sake of their argument - don't want to see the difference or unable to!


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    #45
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    I disagree with the property tax but can totally see that this makes perfect sense.

    Don't pay all of your tax, you can't avail of all services.


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    #46
    msg11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭msg11


    So this household tax thing is now what the general pool of money our taxes go into ? Where do our other taxes go? Like VAT , TAX , PRSI , USC, CARBON TAX, MOTOR TAX, INSURANCE LEVYS go to ? Like there's a few taxes..

    It's kind like saying if you don't own a car you can't use the roads because you don't pay motor tax..

    This government have not got a clue, what really annoys me is there is no alliterative too pick. If I was in charge, I would be slashing the salaries that I see as over payed, they can like it or lump it. I would chop Ex TD's / Taoiseach pensions everything, that would save a good few million alone.

    The crack of claiming expensenses would be gone, if they want a pencil, they can pay for it themselves.

    These so called senior staff, WILL take a pay cut or they can **** off, plenty for talent out there, so there's nothing senior about it anymore.


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    #47
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    The Idyll Race wrote: »
    ...Anyone in receipt of any benefit should have to have a tax clearance certificate. That includes Bertie.

    Elect a different TD if you don't agree with how the country is run.

    Point of order:

    We all know that part above in law, is an ass.

    Mr Ahern didn't pay his tax for many, many years (A LOT OF YEARS) and was issued a unique invented just for him "In Negotiation" cert' so that he could them still remain a TD and collect the amassing pensions (which NOW pays him €2,600 a week - after all deductions)!


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    #48
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    I disagree with the property tax but can totally see that this makes perfect sense.

    Don't pay all of your tax, you can't avail of all services.


    But they're not penalising the householders, they're penalising their children.


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    #49
    Anyone
    Registered Users Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Anyone


    Biggins wrote: »
    Well done, The rant is linked to the income of the parent.
    Not the word "income" - not for the possible crimes of the parent!

    ...But some for the sake of their argument - don't want to see the difference or unable to!

    You're not seeing the arguement, not at all, in fact like others, you are making one up. Clare county council are removing a local service from those who didnt pay they local service charge. That local service is the processing of grant applications. Tough shít that its actually a really really valuable service, but people were warned that services would be removed and now its happening.


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    #50
    mccarthy37
    Registered Users Posts: 646 ✭✭✭mccarthy37


    Fair play to Ruairi Quinn that one time great spokesman for social justice. Democratic Left me arse Fine Gael must be very proud of him.
    I notice Enda Kenny is walking with a swagger lately as his Labour buddies have his arse licked clean.


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    #51
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Biggins wrote: »
    ...But some for the sake of their argument - don't want to see the difference or unable to!
    Sigh.
    They see the bigger picture; how's it's all connected.

    But hey ignore it if you'd rather. If you want to pay extra taxes to cover the welfare of those who'd rather not contribute - good for you, you're a far more generous man than I. I'm happy for you to pay some of my tax also. I have a paypal account - feel free to PM me your details.


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    #52
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    dark crystal wrote: »
    But they're not penalising the householders, they're penalising their children.

    Who put in the application? The parents.


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    #53
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Anyone wrote: »
    You're not seeing the arguement, not at all, in fact like others, you are making one up. Clare county council are removing a local service from those who didnt pay they local service charge. That local service is the processing of grant applications. Tough shít that its actually a really really valuable service, but people were warned that services would be removed and now its happening.

    How is making offspring suffer for the actions of others "making up an argument" ?

    Its happening! Its reality.


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    #54
    Anyone
    Registered Users Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Anyone


    Biggins wrote: »
    How is making offspring suffer for the actions of others "making up an argument" ?

    Its happening! Its reality.

    You were told it would happen, why are you shocked?


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    #55
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    What next, dont pay your tv licence, oh sorry your college application is denied.


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    #56
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,829 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Anyone wrote: »
    JRant wrote: »
    Try telling that to the local councils when applying. As far as they are concerned you are a 'dependant' while living at home or even living in student accomodation. Therefore in their eyes the student is still classed as a child.

    Dependant and child are totally different, I said what I said initially because the OP posted the thread in a dramatic style. "Omg the children, the children" feck off they arent children.

    Don't you see that legally they are the same thing, how else do they get away with investigating parents income?
    My mother still classes us as her children and there's not one of us under 20. I know it may seem like semantics but it's a valid Point.
    What if this nonsense was allowed to progress?
    Sure lets penalize children with parents who have criminal records next!!!

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #57
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Zulu wrote: »
    Sigh.
    They see the bigger picture; how's it's all connected.

    But hey ignore it if you'd rather. If you want to pay extra taxes to cover the welfare of those who'd rather not contribute - good for you, you're a far more generous man than I. I'm happy for you to pay some of my tax also. I have a paypal account - feel free to PM me your details.

    Fine - as things are getting worse, the next time you fail to pay for your TV licence in time, lets take your medical card - or your kids!

    The next time you fail to pay for any charge in time, lets take your driving licence away - or your kids!

    All fine and dandy!

    Extreme cases? Possibly - but thats the door that the state has now entered and opened upon the public!

    Don't say you were not warned!


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    #58
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Anyone wrote: »
    You were told it would happen, why are you shocked?

    Quite simply that our government has become to bitter and low - they they are striking out at the youth of our nation!

    ...For the legal (or illegal) actions of others!

    What part of that is not clear?


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    #59
    Anyone
    Registered Users Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Anyone


    JRant wrote: »
    Don't you see that legally they are the same thing, how else do they get away with investigating parents income?
    My mother still classes us as her children and there's not one of us under 20. I know it may seem like semantics but it's a valid Point.
    What if this nonsense was allowed to progress?
    Sure lets penalize children with parents who have criminal records next!!!

    My initial point was the thread title, its over dramatic. Its like something from Joe Duffy.


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    #60
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    What a stupidly sensationalist title. If a parent doesn't pay their ESB bill and the electricity gets cut off then the child is also punished. If a parent parks a car somewhere they shouldn't and it gets towed then the child who uses that car also suffers.


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    #61
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    Who put in the application? The parents.

    My daughter had to apply for hers.

    Besides, I thought the Household charge was supposed to be for the provision of local services....would the educational grant be classed as a local service?


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