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Mature Medicine Applicants 2014

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  • 19-12-2013 10:15pm
    #1
    Caolan
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭


    Not sure if this thread is still active or not-

    I'm 30 and looking at mature entry, have an ok LC from before but no science subjects. I've a 2.2 Business Degree and a decade as a senior manager in the retail sector (managing 200 staff, suppliers, training etc)

    I did 6 years in a voluntary ambulance organisation in my teens and now at the ripe ago of 30 I've decided to bite the bullet and do what I really want which is medicine.

    I know the financial and time constraints and am up for the challenge (would relish it in fact)- but I do have a question.

    As a 30 year old with no science or Health sector background do I stand a chance? My lack of science seems to rule out a lot of the colleges.

    Repeating the LC isn't really an option, I've 3 young kids so its all or nothing regarding the Mature Applicant route.

    I've been practising HPAT papers and thus far they've been decent, so my question is, is there anyone like me out there? Any tips? What are my options?


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    #2
    RAnnaC
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭RAnnaC


    Caolan wrote: »
    Not sure if this thread is still active or not-

    I'm 30 and looking at mature entry, have an ok LC from before but no science subjects. I've a 2.2 Business Degree and a decade as a senior manager in the retail sector (managing 200 staff, suppliers, training etc)

    I did 6 years in a voluntary ambulance organisation in my teens and now at the ripe ago of 30 I've decided to bite the bullet and do what I really want which is medicine.

    I know the financial and time constraints and am up for the challenge (would relish it in fact)- but I do have a question.

    As a 30 year old with no science or Health sector background do I stand a chance? My lack of science seems to rule out a lot of the colleges.

    Repeating the LC isn't really an option, I've 3 young kids so its all or nothing regarding the Mature Applicant route.

    I've been practising HPAT papers and thus far they've been decent, so my question is, is there anyone like me out there? Any tips? What are my options?

    Hi Caolan,

    I just started mature entry in RCSI in September. I have a science degree and was only a year out of college so I'm not totally sure about what the Leaving Cert requirements are except that you have to have done higher level chemistry. Even if repeating just is not an option for you, if you haven't got chemistry from your past leaving cert, it may be possible to just sit the chemistry exam and nothing else.

    I'm not sure if you've looked into the various colleges and what your options are but RCSI have the largest number of places going for mature students (there are 15 in total, compared to a small handful in the other colleges). If you drop the admissions office an email or phonecall they are always more than happy to help with the applications procedure and any questions you might have.
    I think there might be an open day coming up at the beginning of January which could be a good way to ask some of the questions you have too. I'd check their website for dates!


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    #3
    Abby19
    Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭Abby19


    Caolan wrote: »
    Not sure if this thread is still active or not-

    I'm 30 and looking at mature entry, have an ok LC from before but no science subjects. I've a 2.2 Business Degree and a decade as a senior manager in the retail sector (managing 200 staff, suppliers, training etc)

    I did 6 years in a voluntary ambulance organisation in my teens and now at the ripe ago of 30 I've decided to bite the bullet and do what I really want which is medicine.

    I know the financial and time constraints and am up for the challenge (would relish it in fact)- but I do have a question.

    As a 30 year old with no science or Health sector background do I stand a chance? My lack of science seems to rule out a lot of the colleges.

    Repeating the LC isn't really an option, I've 3 young kids so its all or nothing regarding the Mature Applicant route.

    I've been practising HPAT papers and thus far they've been decent, so my question is, is there anyone like me out there? Any tips? What are my options?

    Caolan - as far as I am aware those applying through the mature route still need to meet the matriculation requirements for each of the colleges. UCD, RCSI and NUIG need one science, TCD and UCC need two sciences.

    I think they may accept certain 'Back to Education' courses in 3rd level colleges above a certain grade to meet these requirements. The mature students' officer for the various colleges could advise you.

    TBH medicine assumes a basic scientific knowledge and you would be _seriously_ disadvantaged if you had none. I know I only had biology to JC and found it hard. Others who hadn't Chemistry to LC also found it difficult.

    I understand that repeating the full LC would be difficult with young kids (but then so would fulltime medicine), but would you consider doing Biology and Chemistry for the LC parttime. Helps show commitment on your application, and also maximises your eligibility. And let you see if studying is for you, and ease you back into it. I know of a fair few people who have taken up and completed one science in a year for eligibility while still working. I don't know of the logistics of satisfying the lab based sections, some have gone through the Institute in Leeson St, and others correspondence courses.

    BTW the 30 year old bit shouldn't be a problem at all :) I know people in their 20s, 30s and 40s starting mature med.

    PS Mature students don't have to meet the matriculation requirements in a single sitting unlike those straight from school, so you can sit the 2 science subjects and add to your previous LC.


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    #4
    Fiddles44
    Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭Fiddles44


    Traderdc wrote: »
    Just a follow up question on the volunteering as it isn't entirely clear to me: It seems that it is very difficult to get volunteering work in an actual clinical setting, if that is the case, what is the best alternative? I am thinking first aid with the St. John's ambulance or similar, Simon community work with the homeless - anything else??

    Any help here is much appreciated.

    If you're having trouble finding volunteering don't forget about local nursing homes or day centers. They are usually very willing to take on volunteers to talk to the residents etc.

    You may need garda vetting before hand though and as previously mentioned this can take time


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    #5
    Fiddles44
    Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭Fiddles44


    Caolan wrote: »
    Not sure if this thread is still active or not-

    I'm 30 and looking at mature entry, have an ok LC from before but no science subjects. I've a 2.2 Business Degree and a decade as a senior manager in the retail sector (managing 200 staff, suppliers, training etc)

    I did 6 years in a voluntary ambulance organisation in my teens and now at the ripe ago of 30 I've decided to bite the bullet and do what I really want which is medicine.

    I know the financial and time constraints and am up for the challenge (would relish it in fact)- but I do have a question.

    As a 30 year old with no science or Health sector background do I stand a chance? My lack of science seems to rule out a lot of the colleges.

    Repeating the LC isn't really an option, I've 3 young kids so its all or nothing regarding the Mature Applicant route.

    I've been practising HPAT papers and thus far they've been decent, so my question is, is there anyone like me out there? Any tips? What are my options?

    Hey Caolan,

    I think RAnnaC and Abby19 answered you're question about the science requirements but don't forget your volunteering requirements.

    Having the time with ambulance organisation will stand to you but I would say you will also need to have some more recent volunteering.

    You want them to know this is really what you want to do and that you have experienced as much as possible


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    #6
    Caolan
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭Caolan


    Fiddles44 wrote: »
    Hey Caolan,

    I think RAnnaC and Abby19 answered you're question about the science requirements but don't forget your volunteering requirements.

    Having the time with ambulance organisation will stand to you but I would say you will also need to have some more recent volunteering.

    You want them to know this is really what you want to do and that you have experienced as much as possible

    Thanks a million,

    I've decided to study Biology and Chemistry for LC this year (spent christmas getting my head around things and reading books) - I am quite postive about it and think my more mature approach (than when I was 17 doing the LC) will stand me in good stead.

    I will definitly be looking to volunteer for the foreseeable future as it sounds like thats a major major factor in selection - I still volunteer with Sports teams (coaching kids) and scouts, so hopefully this is taken into account (despite it not being medical related)

    Anyone with some advise RE: HPAT, I got the 4 tests from ACER, I have done the first one and relatively happy with how its gone for the first try - should I hold off the others until closer to the time?

    Many other mature students applying for mature entry med this year throughthe CAO?


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    #7
    Abby19
    Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭Abby19


    Caolan wrote: »
    Thanks a million,

    Anyone with some advise RE: HPAT, I got the 4 tests from ACER, I have done the first one and relatively happy with how its gone for the first try - should I hold off the others until closer to the time?

    I would say the more practise on the HPAT the better. The colleges only consider people who have a sufficiently high HPAT (I was told 2nd hand >70th percentile), then look at the rest of the application and shortlist for interview. I know others who bought other sample tests for tests that ACER administrate in other countries and practised on them. Apparently some came up the year I did it. You may be short on time on the day so the more familiar you are the better.

    You can also practise on standard psychometric tests - you could do a google search, find ones similar to HPAT and practise (HPAT really only uses 3 types but there are heaps more so make sure you are only practising the format on the test. Alternatively there are a good few revision courses, and many seem to do those. And discounts if you group together.


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    #8
    Fiddles44
    Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭Fiddles44


    I did the MEd entry course and found it very helpful. I think a largest percentage of people going for med also take this course. It is quite expensive though (~600 euro) but you can get a group discount. There is usually a lot of people on boards looking for groups to join to the discount early in the school year. When I did it all you needed was someone elses name and number and you got the discount. You don't have to sign up for the same course day or share material or anything like that. I would hold off on getting it however until hpat 2014 is over, that way you will have a whole year of being able to access the material otherwise you will lose the material after March 2014.

    I also heard the career services hpat course is quite good too. I don't think you get as much practice material but it is cheaper.

    Just some advise for LC Biology and Chemistry - Get the exam papers and marking schemes asap and just start working through all the questions. The same questions are always repeated. If you just google leaving cert exam papers you should find them.

    The experiments in both subjects carry a lot of marks so know those questions really well.

    Organic Chemistry is a huge section in Chemistry. I think there is usually at least 2 or 3 questions (one being an experiment question) on it on the papers and they always ask the same questions so if you know Organic Chem well its easy marks to get.

    Definitions are also really important for both subjects. Whatever book you are using will have all the definitions but my advise would be to use the definitions that are in the marking schemes. Even if you define what is being asked correctly but it is not what is in the marking scheme you won't get the full marks (The joys of the leaving cert).

    Diagrams/Graphs are also important and making sure that everything is labelled correctly.

    Certain topics in Biology are always asked like Photosynthesis, Respiration, The Heart, Ecology. We'll see the pattern when you have a look at the exam papers.

    I hope this is some help. If you have any other questions about the leaving cert or anything really just ask.

    Best of Luck


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    #9
    Caolan
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭Caolan


    Fiddles44 wrote: »
    I did the MEd entry course and found it very helpful. I think a largest percentage of people going for med also take this course. It is quite expensive though (~600 euro) but you can get a group discount. There is usually a lot of people on boards looking for groups to join to the discount early in the school year. When I did it all you needed was someone elses name and number and you got the discount. You don't have to sign up for the same course day or share material or anything like that. I would hold off on getting it however until hpat 2014 is over, that way you will have a whole year of being able to access the material otherwise you will lose the material after March 2014.

    I also heard the career services hpat course is quite good too. I don't think you get as much practice material but it is cheaper.

    Just some advise for LC Biology and Chemistry - Get the exam papers and marking schemes asap and just start working through all the questions. The same questions are always repeated. If you just google leaving cert exam papers you should find them.

    The experiments in both subjects carry a lot of marks so know those questions really well.

    Organic Chemistry is a huge section in Chemistry. I think there is usually at least 2 or 3 questions (one being an experiment question) on it on the papers and they always ask the same questions so if you know Organic Chem well its easy marks to get.

    Definitions are also really important for both subjects. Whatever book you are using will have all the definitions but my advise would be to use the definitions that are in the marking schemes. Even if you define what is being asked correctly but it is not what is in the marking scheme you won't get the full marks (The joys of the leaving cert).

    Diagrams/Graphs are also important and making sure that everything is labelled correctly.

    Certain topics in Biology are always asked like Photosynthesis, Respiration, The Heart, Ecology. We'll see the pattern when you have a look at the exam papers.

    I hope this is some help. If you have any other questions about the leaving cert or anything really just ask.

    Best of Luck

    Thanks Fiddles & Abby - its great having someone answer questions (its not easy when you dont have a teacher to ask and are trawling google for info!)

    Are there any areas that you think are less important to know in Chem and Biology? (a friend said know Moles and Stoichometry very well, but dont worry as much about Electro Chem and Water Treatment)


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    #10
    Abby19
    Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭Abby19


    Haha - I am a mature student so asking me for advice on the LC could be self-defeating.
    I do however know matures who have done chemistry in the last 2-4 years (both in medicine at the mo'). One did a correspondence course and I think had a few grinds locally. One through the Institute in Leeson St. Don't know about Biology, but I _think_ that may be more about memorising a lot of stuff, whereas in Chemistry there are some more concepts you may need help with.

    I would suggest that you talk to a science teacher who is familiar with the LC - one of the grind schools could advise you of what you need to do, bearing in mind they will be hoping to recruit you, but they might be able to put you in touch with one of their teachers to see what is feasible at this stage. There could be a practical/lab aspect to them. And better to know sooner than later. And possibly sign up for a revision course around Easter. Even if you are not based in Dublin, some schools around the country do them, and find ones where you can do both subjects (sometimes science subjects can clash iirc). They can advise on sample questions/tactics etc.

    Best of luck!


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    #11
    Fiddles44
    Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭Fiddles44


    Your friend is right about moles and stoichometry. It comes into a lot of questions. You need to be able to change between g, moles, cm3 and molecules.

    Electro Chem and Water treatment is part of the options question, I think! (Maybe just check this) You only pick one of these to answer. I did water treatment and found it pretty easy. Its a definite question so I wouldn't leave it out


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    #12
    Fiddles44
    Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭Fiddles44


    As Abby19 says, it would be good to talk to some teachers. I went to leeson st and I have to say both the chem and bio teachers I had were excellent.

    There are lab aspects to both subjects but I don't know if they expect you to have them done since you are not linked to a school. You could ask a local principle about that. To be honest it is not essential to do the labs, everything is in the books and marking schemes. In school you do the labs and written them out in lab booklets in case an inspector comes in and asks for the classes lab books (as far as I know).

    Just remember the exam papers and marking schemes are your friend! I found doing the papers over and over again was great for revision

    If I think of anything else I'll post it


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    #13
    borrch
    Registered Users Posts: 248 ✭✭borrch


    Hi Guys,
    I'm hoping some one here could give me a bit of advice on filling out the Trinity application. I'm stuck on the question "What aspects of the course interest you the most?" I know if seems like a fairly straight forward question but I'm stuck ... I've completed the personal statement etc and now feel I've run out of things to write. I've gone through the curriculum and realise Trinity want me to prove to them that i have researched the course and am fully prepared for a degree course etc. Any help would be much appreciated :-)


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    #14
    Abby19
    Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭Abby19


    borrch wrote: »
    Hi Guys,
    I'm hoping some one here could give me a bit of advice on filling out the Trinity application. I'm stuck on the question "What aspects of the course interest you the most?" I know if seems like a fairly straight forward question but I'm stuck ... I've completed the personal statement etc and now feel I've run out of things to write. I've gone through the curriculum and realise Trinity want me to prove to them that i have researched the course and am fully prepared for a degree course etc. Any help would be much appreciated :-)

    General blurb
    http://www.tcd.ie/academicunits/schools/medicine/education/undergraduate/medicine.php

    Yearly breakdown
    http://www.tcd.ie/academicunits/schools/medicine/education/undergraduate/curriculum/

    Early clinical exposure - bench to bedside approach - strong research basis throughout the years, etc.

    Check out the other med schools and compare and contrast.


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    #15
    Caolan
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭Caolan


    HPAT done today, glad it's over and to be honest really enjoyed the challenge of it..... Now I just hope I get what I want!

    Just wondering from last year anyone's experience? What's next? It looks like last year most people +160ish were contacted by RCSI to submit paperwork, I'd be really disappointed if I wasn't well above this (but you don't know with the hpat)

    Any other paperwork I should be getting ready in the hope I get a call?

    I think hpat results for mature students are late April, do colleges get them first?


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    #16
    borrch
    Registered Users Posts: 248 ✭✭borrch


    Hi Caolan,
    Like you I'm glad the HPAT is over. It's next to impossible to judge how anyone did so no point thinking about it for the next 8 weeks. As you probably already know, the universities will get the results in mid April - two weeks before we get the results.

    Do people think there's less mature med students this year?

    I was talking to one of the HPAT supervisors yesterday. He said last year in NUIG they had 440 students sit the Hpat, this year that figure is 314. That's a big drop off. Just wondered if it was the same across the country?


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    #17
    tribex
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭tribex


    borrch wrote: »

    Do people think there's less mature med students this year?

    As far as I could see there was only about 3 or 4 mature students in UCD yesterday for the HPAT. Anyone know any numbers for the other places it was being tested?


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    #18
    borrch
    Registered Users Posts: 248 ✭✭borrch


    I think i was the only mature student in Galway yesterday, everyone there looked 18-20 yrs old. Unless there's a lot of fresh faced mature students out there ... But then again there was a lot of parents hanging around so hard to say really.


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    #19
    Caolan
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭Caolan


    borrch wrote: »
    I think i was the only mature student in Galway yesterday, everyone there looked 18-20 yrs old. Unless there's a lot of fresh faced mature students out there ... But then again there was a lot of parents hanging around so hard to say really.

    Same myself, was in Blackrock/UCD and out of approx 400/500 students I didn't see anyone else who looked over 25 (admittedly I was t looking for them)

    Next 8-10 weeks should be fun!

    In the meantime what should I be getting ready in the hope that I get called? References, Personal Statement, Garda Vetting, CV?

    Anyone here who went through it with RCSI last year?


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    #20
    dtfo
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭dtfo


    Caolan wrote: »
    Same myself, was in Blackrock/UCD and out of approx 400/500 students I didn't see anyone else who looked over 25 (admittedly I was t looking for them)

    Next 8-10 weeks should be fun!

    In the meantime what should I be getting ready in the hope that I get called? References, Personal Statement, Garda Vetting, CV?

    Anyone here who went through it with RCSI last year?

    Hi, Im 1st year in RCSI at the moment. I would definitely start working on that stuff now so you have it ready to go. You dont need anything for Garda vetting

    If youve any other qs ask away but Im very busy so it might take me a while to get back :)


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    #21
    Caolan
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭Caolan


    Thanks DTFO - will get working on references and fingers crossed my HPAT are good enough to impress the folks in RCSI as thats the basket most of my eggs are in.

    Quick question- has anyone looked at studying abroad in places like Italy or Croatia? I have 3 kids so didnt think it was an option, but it just might be.

    are the degrees worth anything? does studying abroad pose problems when you come home and start looking for work?


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    #22
    livk
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭livk


    Hi Caolan,

    I realise it's been a while since you posted that, but I just wanted to say something about the European degrees. They're all recognised in Ireland, I know a few people who did their degree in Budapest and are now SHO's here and have had no problem getting work. I'm also applying to Italy as well as Ireland to have plenty of backup. It makes life slightly more difficult in that you have to learn a new language on top of everything else, but everyone I've spoken to has said it's perfectly doable.

    A quick google search will tell you if specific university degrees are recognised here, but as far as Italy is concerned, you're all set.


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    #23
    Caolan
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭Caolan


    Thanks Livk - I applied to Italy aswell and have IMAT next month (I may see you there) - I never studied any science before this eyar but am really enjoying the Chemistry and Biology and am looking forward to sitting LC in June.

    I applied to RCSI and got an e-mail today looking for paperwork - anyone any tips they want to throw this way for the Personal Statement?

    How many pages can/should it be, content etc?


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    #24
    livk
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭livk


    Yeah, I guess I might see you in London then!

    Just got that email myself too. Already mildly stressed about it. I think mine is probably going to be around 2/3 pages. They never specified any length so I wouldn't worry too much as long as you avoid repetition. Have a look back through this thread (which is what i'm doing now) as people have had this exact discussion the last few years I think. Hopefully there's some advice there we can follow.


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    #25
    EternalGeek
    Registered Users Posts: 236 ✭✭EternalGeek


    Got that email too :) Nice to know the HPAT can't be too horrific!


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    #26
    livk
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭livk


    Heh, I know. It's the first year i've gotten this email off RCSI so i'm almost looking forward to results now. I have to have improved at least :)


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    #27
    yoppo
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭yoppo


    EternalGeek wrote: »
    Got that email too :) Nice to know the HPAT can't be too horrific!

    I got that e-mail too... Does that mean we met the minimum 170 HPAT score?


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    #28
    EternalGeek
    Registered Users Posts: 236 ✭✭EternalGeek


    RCSI implements a minimum score but not sure if it is 170:)


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    #29
    Billiethepup
    Closed Accounts Posts: 139 ✭✭Billiethepup


    RCSI said last year cut off was 160 but it can vary depending on the year. Seems VERY early for hpat results to have hit rcsi.. I've a funny feeling they've sent the email to everyone who applied and then will only open whoever is about cut off when they get results and calculate what that may be... (I've zero evidence for this btw! Just a feeling in me waters ;-))


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    #30
    borrch
    Registered Users Posts: 248 ✭✭borrch


    I agree, last year the universities didn't received the hpat results until mid April. Did anyone not receive an email..?


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    #31
    EternalGeek
    Registered Users Posts: 236 ✭✭EternalGeek


    Au Revoir good mood and hope..:(


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