Seriously, I am not grievously offending you !

jackofalltrades · 14-08-2013 1:49am

RobAMerc wrote: »

What is it with people, do they think you have grievously offended them by flashing them out of the way ?

Sorry, I have opened threads on this before, I just don't get it.

Irish drivers don't take well to being flashed or beeped at, especially when you compare us to UK or continental motorists.

One theory that if have is, that it's down to having low self-esteem. They feel so low that they can't take any criticism. You flashing that driver was basically interpreted as you calling her a terrible driver in public. Even though she probably thought she was doing nothing wrong and letting you by wouldn't inconvenience her that much, it's the act of being judged negatively by another person that sends her into a rage.

On top of this, ignorance of the rules of the road will see some drivers being flashed/beeped/getting into disagreements more often than others. And so these people will have shorter fuses.

Beeping people when the light turns red and they haven't noticed will get you a polite wave in most countries. You can get the same here, but it's a lot less likely.

visual · 14-08-2013 4:02am

Ive notice there is a few that beep their horn as soon as the light goes green even if car in front is moving off.

Before all the motorways I use to drive to galway from dublin regularly.
There was a etiquette most drivers followed
If you approched from rear quickly with right indicator on they would flash their left indicator and move into the left as much as possible to allow you pass. Once pass you acknowledge with hazards and they give you a quick flash.
The only time they wouldn't move over was when it was too dangerous to over take.
But as soon as it was safe they flash the left indicator to let you know its ok to pass.

The big difference back then was speeding wasn't seen as the work of the devil and unlike today people didn't mind being overtaken.

wandatowell · 14-08-2013 4:06am

My uncle flashed the w@nker sign at a fella in another car and the guy followed him for 20 mintues!

Lesson learned.

lau1247 · 14-08-2013 8:34am

can the RSA not erect few signs that says 'Keep left unless overtaking' instead of those stupid ads they put out? Would save a lot of hassle

whomitconcerns · 14-08-2013 8:37am

it happens every day on M50 and M7. I had a woman in a jeep with 3 kids in teh back go ape at me after i flashed her to let me by one day...I mean she went bananas in the driver seat... Her face was saying "you could have killed me and my kids you maniac". Now to clarify i was flashing here from about 20-30mtrs back when she eventually moved..so I was not tailgating her closely.

And yes of course she pulled right back into lane 3 after I had passed her and pulled back across to lane one..

frankly though half the time I end up giving up..especially on N7/M7 they just ignore you...so you end up just pulling back in and stuck...

Frank Black · 14-08-2013 8:46am

visual wrote: »

Ive notice there is a few that beep their horn as soon as the light goes green even if car in front is moving off.

I've also noticed a strange phenomenon - the people who won't under any circumstances beep at someone else.
Most noticeable if there is traffic stopped at traffic signals. Light goes green and guy at from doesn't move as he's not paying attention. person behind person at the top of queue does nothing.
Sometime I can end up beeping from 3-4 cars back, as no one else seems to want to beep their horn to alert the guy at the front of the queue.

Presume these people have been scarred from a previous beeping experience and now are too scared to do so again.

whomitconcerns · 14-08-2013 8:50am

i do beep..but about 6 months ago a guy in front of me didn't move off after 7-8 seconds so i gave a short beep. He pulled off with his foot to the floor...and i began driving..then he stopped suddenly..i had to stop..he drove on then stopped again at an angle on the road (lane and half wide to allow passing road) let down his window..stared at me for a few seconds...gave me a finger and then drove on with a skid...this near a less salubrious part of the city...

Zubeneschamali · 14-08-2013 8:50am

lau1247 wrote: »

can the RSA not erect few signs that says 'Keep left unless overtaking' instead of those stupid ads they put out? Would save a lot of hassle

Learners are not allowed on the Motorway, so they get no lessons on the Motorway, and aren't tested on the Motorway. It's hardly surprising that some of them don't know how to drive on the Motorway after they get their full license.

The M50 doesn't help: many Dubs main experience of Motorway driving is a free-for-all where any lane is as good as any other.

lway · 14-08-2013 8:53am

wandatowell wrote: »

My uncle flashed the w@nker sign at a fella in another car and the guy followed him for 20 mintues!

Lesson learned.

I had something similar happen to me too. A 4x4 was tailgating me so close on the motorway into Dublin that I couldn't see the driver in the rear view mirror only the bull bars on the front of the jeep. When he eventually overtook I flashed him the w@nker sign. He pulled in front of me and hit his brakes, I swerved into the overtaking lane and passed him out and pulled back into the driving lane, then he proceeded to accelerate up the hard shoulder until we were side by side and kept beeping his horn. I ignored him and kept looking straight ahead, fortunately he left at the next exit ramp.

I figured from then on it's not worth the hassle and I should just ignore those kind of drivers.

_Kaiser_ · 14-08-2013 8:57am

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Learners are not allowed on the Motorway, so they get no lessons on the Motorway, and aren't tested on the Motorway. It's hardly surprising that some of them don't know how to drive on the Motorway after they get their full license.

The M50 doesn't help: many Dubs main experience of Motorway driving is a free-for-all where any lane is as good as any other.

The M50 really should be declassified as the N50 between Sandyford and the airport (basically along the entire 3-lane stretch) as the volume of traffic and close proximity of exits/entrances to it, plus the lower speed limit means that it isn't really a "proper" motorway in the context of the rest of them anyway.

Of course then you'd have all the learners on it too, but you could argue that that happens anyway..

Frank Black · 14-08-2013 9:03am

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

The M50 really should be declassified as the N50 between Sandyford and the airport (basically along the entire 3-lane stretch) as the volume of traffic and close proximity of exits/entrances to it, plus the lower speed limit means that it isn't really a "proper" motorway in the context of the rest of them anyway.

Of course then you'd have all the learners on it too, but you could argue that that happens anyway..

You'd also have pedestrians, cyclists and horse drawn carriages.

No thanks

_Kaiser_ · 14-08-2013 9:07am

Frank Black wrote: »

You'd also have pedestrians, cyclists and horse drawn carriages.

No thanks

Maybe we need an U50 then or something (urban "motorway") because it's obvious that we have 2 camps here..

- Those who don't know how to drive on a motorway in the first place
- Those who think the same "rules"/etiquette should apply when the practicalities of the M50 (as I mentioned above) make this impossible

Incidentally, the N40 in Cork is kind of the same setup and I've never seen cyclists or pedestrians on it yet.

Anan1 · 14-08-2013 9:10am

I don't see what difference the reclassification of the M50 would make? The rule on any dual carriageway is still drive left overtake right.

_Kaiser_ · 14-08-2013 9:17am

Anan1 wrote: »

I don't see what difference the reclassification of the M50 would make? The rule on any dual carriageway is still drive left overtake right.

Yes but as I've outlined here before, there are certain stretches of the M50 (thinking between exits 7 and 10 both sides) where the number of off/on-ramps in that few km stretch make that practically impossible.

- People joining at 60 km/h, or cutting across hatching/merging lanes to get out ahead of others
- People diving across multiple lanes at the last minute
- People weaving randomly to accommodate the above
- etc

Like it or not, if you're not leaving at any of those exits, the safest place to be is lane 2/3 until you pass this particular stretch.

Personally in heavy traffic along this stretch I'll stay out in lane 3 and move at the same speed as the rest of the traffic in that lane - and yes I know all the letter-of the-law high horse brigade will be along to tell me how wrong I am :rolleyes: - but personally given the appalling standard of driving generally and piss-poor enforcement of anything beyond revenue generating offences like "speeding", I'll take whatever measures I feel necessary to keep myself, my car, and other safest under those conditions.

Renegade Mechanic · 14-08-2013 9:21am

Had to undertake a total t*t yesterday. Had to get somewhere kinda quickly. 120 would have been no problem. 100 would have made me late. Sat behind him for a minute. Flashed once, actually saw his head turn to the mirror then back to the road! Did nothing as we spent 30 seconds approaching a truck. Then after that truck there was another truck about a half mile ahead and he didnt move left.
So I did...

Why is there such a pathetic, pedantic "oh Ill soften your cough for ya" culture in this country....

whomitconcerns · 14-08-2013 9:23am

HUGE signs on the motorway to keep left unless overtaking would save lives, time, hassle, and friction as described above...The amount of undertaking on the M50 is getting chronic.

Oh that and enforcement of same by the police..

I have driven in Romania and drivers there are pushy. But when they flash you you move and vice versa always, and no one is gesturing or blocking, but the law enforcement on the roads there helps.
Funny story though the regular cops cant penalise you there for road traffic violations and vice versa the road traffic police...and yes both are the actual police force, not wardens or "garda reserve".

Zubeneschamali · 14-08-2013 9:25am

When a motorway/freeway is busy, anywhere in the world, all lanes get used. There is nowhere on Earth where a road like the M50 would be strictly driving lane/overtaking 1/overtaking2 with everyone diving back into the driving lane.

What you do see in better behaved countries is trucks/slow vehicles/people leaving soon/people not leaving soon, and less diving across all lanes at on/off ramps.

Of course, the M50 is a disaster even when it isn't busy.

whomitconcerns · 14-08-2013 9:27am

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

When a motorway/freeway is busy, anywhere in the world, all lanes get used. There is nowhere on Earth where a road like the M50 would be strictly driving lane/overtaking 1/overtaking2 with everyone diving back into the driving lane.

What you do see in better behaved countries is trucks/slow vehicles/people leaving soon/people not leaving soon, and less diving across all lanes at on/off ramps.

Of course, the M50 is a disaster even when it isn't busy.

yes i am sure we all agree. But here people will drive in right and middle lanes constantly when left lane is empty...i see this weekly and its no exaggeration that i can see ahead on the left lane sometimes for 3/400 metres..while middle and right are busy

Anan1 · 14-08-2013 9:34am

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Yes but as I've outlined here before, there are certain stretches of the M50 (thinking between exits 7 and 10 both sides) where the number of off/on-ramps in that few km stretch make that practically impossible.

I don't see how reclassifying as U50/N50 would affect any of this? The road wouldn't change, and rules of the road wouldn't change.

_Kaiser_ · 14-08-2013 9:36am

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Why is there such a pathetic, pedantic "oh Ill soften your cough for ya" culture in this country....

Chips on shoulders/inferiority complexes/insecurity - take your pick

_Kaiser_ · 14-08-2013 9:37am

Anan1 wrote: »

I don't see how reclassifying as U50/N50 would affect any of this? The road wouldn't change, and rules of the road wouldn't change.

My point is that you'd reclassify it as say the U-50 with a modified set of N/M road rules/restrictions that better matches the reality and requirements of the road.

EDIT: Ridiculous maybe, but necessary seeing as the average Irish motorist needs it spelled out for them every time, and is generally incapable of using any sort of cop-on (applies to speed limits, letting buses out, overtaking, motorway usage etc)

Owryan · 14-08-2013 9:37am

Thought I would mention this here, also posted about it in the commuting forum.

Was a passenger in a car travelling from Kilkenny to Carlow via the motorway last Friday, 1ish. We passed a car pulled over, half in and half out of the hard shoulder, no hazards on with the kids playing on the grassy area and (i assume) the mammy having a fag and a cuppa.

_Kaiser_ · 14-08-2013 9:43am

Owryan wrote: »

Thought I would mention this here, also posted about it in the commuting forum.

Was a passenger in a car travelling from Kilkenny to Carlow via the motorway last Friday, 1ish. We passed a car pulled over, half in and half out of the hard shoulder, no hazards on with the kids playing on the grassy area and (i assume) the mammy having a fag and a cuppa.

Regularly see things like that.. also cars happily driving along at 80 km/h half in/out of the hard shoulder

Frank Black · 14-08-2013 9:46am

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

My point is that you'd reclassify it as say the U-50 with a modified set of N/M road rules/restrictions that better matches the reality and requirements of the road.

EDIT: Ridiculous maybe, but necessary seeing as the average Irish motorist needs it spelled out for them every time, and is generally incapable of using any sort of cop-on (applies to speed limits, letting buses out, overtaking, motorway usage etc)

So a new category of road, with a new set of driving regulations associated with it?

That's really going to solve poor driving behaviour on the M50 - I mean U50.

_Kaiser_ · 14-08-2013 9:52am

Frank Black wrote: »

So a new category of road, with a new set of driving regulations associated with it?

That's really going to solve poor driving behaviour on the M50 - I mean U50.

Well ideally of course we'd have a Traffic Corps that has a few units dedicated to just cruising up and down this road all day and pulling people for some of the above mentioned muppetry, but seeing as that's not going to happen reclassifying and thus resetting the expectations of users of the road is the next best thing.

- No L drivers (bicycles, horse drawn carriages etc)
- No vehicles under 60 km/h/Minimum speed limit 60 km/h, or different speeds for different lanes? (Maybe make lane 3 an "express/through" lane off-peak)
- Use all lanes at peak times, Lanes 1/2 otherwise
.. feel free to add some more

It's an imperfect solution certainly.. enforcement and education would be preferred.. but as I said, do we REALLY think that'll ever happen in this country?

Anan1 · 14-08-2013 9:55am

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

My point is that you'd reclassify it as say the U-50 with a modified set of N/M road rules/restrictions that better matches the reality and requirements of the road.

EDIT: Ridiculous maybe, but necessary seeing as the average Irish motorist needs it spelled out for them every time, and is generally incapable of using any sort of cop-on (applies to speed limits, letting buses out, overtaking, motorway usage etc)

Are you honestly suggesting road-specific ROTR ?

pred racer · 14-08-2013 9:57am

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Well ideally of course we'd have a Traffic Corps that has a few units dedicated to just cruising up and down this road all day and pulling people for some of the above mentioned muppetry, but seeing as that's not going to happen reclassifying and thus resetting the expectations of users of the road is the next best thing.

- No L drivers (bicycles, horse drawn carriages etc)
- No vehicles under 60 km/h/Minimum speed limit 60 km/h
- Use all lanes at peak times, Lanes 1/2 otherwise
.. feel free to add some more

It's an imperfect solution certainly.. enforcement and education would be preferred.. but as I said, do we REALLY think that'll ever happen in this country?

In France, you will get an €80 fine and 1 point for not driving in the correct lane
Happens often enough.

Frank Black · 14-08-2013 9:59am

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Well ideally of course we'd have a Traffic Corps that has a few units dedicated to just cruising up and down this road all day and pulling people for some of the above mentioned muppetry, but seeing as that's not going to happen reclassifying and thus resetting the expectations of users of the road is the next best thing.

- No L drivers (bicycles, horse drawn carriages etc)
- No vehicles under 60 km/h/Minimum speed limit 60 km/h, or different speeds for different lanes? (Maybe make lane 3 an "express/through" lane off-peak)
- Use all lanes at peak times, Lanes 1/2 otherwise
.. feel free to add some more

It's an imperfect solution certainly.. enforcement and education would be preferred.. but as I said, do we REALLY think that'll ever happen in this country?

What's an 'express' lane and how does it's operation differ from an overtaking lane?

_Kaiser_ · 14-08-2013 9:59am

Anan1 wrote: »

Are you honestly suggesting road-specific ROTR ?

Why not? We have different rules for Motorways as is vs similarly constructed N-roads. This would just be an modification to accommodate the one (possibly 2) real urban motorways we have in this country but which are probably also the busiest.

I agree it shouldn't be necessary but as above, the average Paddy motorist needs everything spelled out for them (those who haven't a clue to begin with, or who blindly follow the letter of the law regardless of the conditions/reality), and is incapable of using cop-on, courtesy and patience.

_Kaiser_ · 14-08-2013 10:02am

Frank Black wrote: »

What's an 'express' lane and how does it's operation differ from an overtaking lane?

Express lane.. only for cars travelling beyond exits 6-10 for example (could be physically separated if needed (again likely in Ireland)).

Allows cars joining/leaving at those exits to do so without the ducking/diving and it doesn't hold up or affect the rest who are travelling beyond this.

Seriously, I am not grievously offending you !

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