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Saorview Content Speculation

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    #1352
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,771 ✭✭✭Apogee


    glimmerman123 wrote: »
    HD Ireland is this a planned channel by RTE,TV3 and TG4 for the future?

    HD Ireland was the HD channel which ran during one of the earlier 'trial' phases from 2007 until the upscaled RTÉ2 took over its slot. Most of the stuff was continuous loop, but they also showed the Leinster Final live in HD.

    1408593666_25f3b9cc35_o.jpg


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    #1353
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Apogee wrote: »
    HD Ireland was the HD channel which ran during one of the earlier 'trial' phases from 2007 until the upscaled RTÉ2 took over its slot. Most of the stuff was continuous loop, but they also showed the Leinster Final live in HD.

    Was that the only thing they provided in HD? Any programming in HD?


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    #1354
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,771 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Elmo wrote: »
    Was that the only thing they provided in HD? Any programming in HD?

    The screengrab above was from a Discovery programme. Wimbledon was shown. Scenery stuff.

    Thankfully, we were spared Xposé in HD...


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    #1355
    glimmerman123
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭glimmerman123


    galtee boy wrote: »
    Still reading as "Test Service" from Mullaghanish ?
    I still have epg info on my Panasonic TV picking up DTT from Maghera.


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    #1356
    galtee boy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭galtee boy


    glimmerman123 wrote: »
    I still have epg info on my Panasonic TV picking up DTT from Maghera.

    Strange, normally it's the same epg/picture on all transmitters. I tried Mitchelstown as well as Mulla and thats the same, although I presume the Mitchelstown transmitter is being fed from Mullaghanish anyway.


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    #1357
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Apogee wrote: »
    The screengrab above was from a Discovery programme. Wimbledon was shown. Scenery stuff.

    From TG4 or BBC?


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    #1358
    glimmerman123
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭glimmerman123


    galtee boy wrote: »
    Strange, normally it's the same epg/picture on all transmitters. I tried Mitchelstown as well as Mulla and thats the same, although I presume the Mitchelstown transmitter is being fed from Mullaghanish anyway.
    On channel 7 the info bar for now says test transmission but if i go to 19.00 on the info bar it says programmes start at 7.00. Channel 8 the info bar says programmes start at 19.00 but from 19.00 it says test transmission.


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    #1359
    glimmerman123
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭glimmerman123


    I'm getting no video message on channel 7 and 8 now. All other channels are ok. I wonder is RTE ONE +1 going to launch at 19.00 and RTE jr at 7.00 am tomorrow?


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    #1360
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    glimmerman123 wrote: »
    I'm getting no video message on channel 7 and 8 now. All other channels are ok. I wonder is RTE ONE +1 going to launch at 19.00 and RTE jr at 7.00 am tomorrow?

    No not happening here.


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    #1361
    glimmerman123
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭glimmerman123


    Elmo wrote: »
    No not happening here.
    Channel 8 now back on test card with audio for RTE Lyric fm channel 7 now has a message no service.


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    #1362
    Machinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Machinehead


    glimmerman123 wrote: »
    Channel 8 now back on test card with audio for RTE Lyric fm channel 7 now has a message no service.

    Ch.7 now also has "encrypted" flag and "no service" & does not appear on EPG when free services are selected, it only shows when "All DVB-T Channels" are selected on my Panny D25.


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    #1363
    glimmerman123
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭glimmerman123


    Machinehead wrote: »
    Ch.7 now also has "encrypted" flag and "no service" & does not appear on EPG when free services are selected, it only shows when "All DVB-T Channels" are selected on my Panny D25.
    There seems to be a bit of activity this evening. Earlier RTE News Now was on full screen and they had removed that awful blue border.Blue border is back. :mad:


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    #1364
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    glimmerman123 wrote: »
    There seems to be a bit of activity this evening. Earlier RTE News Now was on full screen and they had removed that awful blue border.Blue border is back. :mad:

    Well nothing happening here. Only pixelation, I think its the weather.


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    #1365
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Some activity today around 13:45. Rescanned my TV and Three Rock is transmitting on 58, a duplicate of 54. Also the two test channels seem to be working on a time share, channel 7 is showing a test card with EPG data of "Test Service." Channel 8 is a black screen with "Programmes start at 19:00" in the EPG data and "Test service" from 19:00 onwards.


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    #1366
    Machinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Machinehead


    2nd mux on channel 24 fired up again from Mulla duplicate of the services on channel 21. Strange though, from Mulla I 8 free TV services on channel 24 & from Maghera I get 1 pay & TV 7 free channels, channel 8 carrying an encrypted flag & "no service" same as on channel 21.


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    #1367
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Machinehead wrote: »
    2nd mux on channel 24 fired up again from Mulla duplicate of the services on channel 21. Strange though, from Mulla I 8 free TV services on channel 24 & from Maghera I get 1 pay & TV 7 free channels, channel 8 carrying an encrypted flag & "no service" same as on channel 21.

    How do you mean 1 pay service.


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    #1368
    Machinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Machinehead


    Elmo wrote: »
    How do you mean 1 pay service.

    On any frequency scan be it DVB-T or DVB-S services can be labeled "Free TV" or "Pay TV" (encrypted) on my Panny D25. Although yesterday, either channel 7 or 8 also had the encrypted flag but the test card & audio were still available. Point to note is when I select "Free TV" on the TV's own TV guide the channel which has the flag does not appear in the listings. Otherwise I must select "All DVB-T channels" & then end up with a cluttered listing showing the radio services as well.


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    #1369
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/05/18/00099.asp
    128. Deputy Thomas P. Broughan asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if TV3 and TG4 are paying RTÉ NL in respect of their services on Saorview the digital terrestrial television service; if TV3 will be available on Saorview throughout its initial launch; if he has directed TV3 to appear on Saorview under its licence; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11969/11]

    Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte): It is the responsibility of my Department - in conjunction with RTÉ, the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI), ComReg and other stakeholders - to progress the digital switch-over process so that it meets the 2012 timeline for analogue switch-off. Accordingly, the then Minister imposed by order a requirement on RTÉ to make its public service digital terrestrial television (DTT) multiplex available to 90% of the population from 31 October 2010. On 29 October, RTÉ launched the DTT service (called Saorview) to over 90% of the population on a pilot basis. RTÉ considered that a pilot phase was essential to provide for the roll-out of the network nationally, to test new content and to allow for technical testing. In addition, it considered that this period could be used to develop additional content and services and to ensure the availability of a variety of Saorview-approved receivers prior to the national launch. Due to the nature of this pilot phase, it was considered appropriate that TG4, TV3 and other third party broadcasters would not be charged for DTT services during this period. However, broadcasters including TV3 and TG4 will be required to pay for DTT services on the RTÉ digital network thereafter. The pilot network is available to the public and currently broadcasts RTÉ 1, RTÉ 2, TG4, TV3, 3e and two test services - RTÉ News Now and an RTÉ digital teletext service. RTÉ is proposing a full national launch in the second quarter of 2011. Further information on the RTÉ DTT service is available on www.saorview.ie.

    TV3 is the national commercial TV broadcaster and is licensed under contract with the BAI. This contract provides for TV3 to be carried on the analogue terrestrial TV network which is operated by RTÉ NL. Part 8 of the Broadcasting Act 2009 also provides for the Minister, at the request of the BAI, to make space available for TV3 on the RTÉ digital network. The BAI made such a request on behalf of TV3 in 2010 and TV3 was facilitated with space on the RTÉ digital network for both TV3 and 3e, which is owned by TV3. While a decision to use the RTÉ digital network is ultimately a commercial decision for TV3, I consider that TV3’s request for space on the digital network is a positive indication of its continued interest in national broadcasting in Ireland and a clear signal of its intent in this regard.


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    #1370
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    So that confirms TV3's free ride, and that the ride stops at launch. We will watch with anticipation to see if TV3 is there at the launch and if 3e will be there as well. Of course, they could still be arguing about the price until well after ASO.


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    #1371
    galtee boy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭galtee boy


    RTÉ is proposing a full national launch in the second quarter of 2011.

    This now means that they can put the so called "official" or "full launch" back to 30th June if they want to and still be in the second quarter of 2011. If the launch date keeps moving and if TV3 aren't forced to pay up and be on it at launch, the whole Saorview thing is going to turn into another Irish joke.


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    #1372
    Machinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Machinehead


    galtee boy wrote: »
    RTÉ is proposing a full national launch in the second quarter of 2011.

    This now means that they can put the so called "official" or "full launch" back to 30th June if they want to and still be in the second quarter of 2011. If the launch date keeps moving and if TV3 aren't forced to pay up and be on it at launch, the whole Saorview thing is going to turn into another Irish joke.

    Link to Ministerial response on question put forward by Séan Kenny TD:
    http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2011-05-17.1261.0


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    #1373
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,481 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Elmo wrote: »
    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/05/18/00099.asp

    That confirms what we were discussing earlier in this thread.

    If TV3 want to be there after the public launch they gotta pay.

    It appears they may have complained to the BAI regarding the transmission charges.
    rlogue wrote: »
    Now TV3 and TG4 are faced with paying RTE NL for their Saorview coverage and I hear a complaint has been launched by one or the other with the BAI over the scale of RTE NL's transmission charges.

    Just like the No. 46 bus you wait for ages and then two come along together. Two Dáil questions on the same TV3 topic this week.
    Tuesday, 17 May 2011

    316. Deputy Seán Kenny     asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if TV3 and TG4 are paying RTÉ NL in respect to their services on Saorview, the digital terrestrial television service; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11814/11]

    Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte): It is the responsibility of my Department, in conjunction with RTÉ, the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI), ComReg and other stakeholders to progress the digital switch-over process so that it meets the 2012 timeline for analogue switch off.

    Accordingly, I imposed, by order, a requirement on RTÉ to make its public service DTT multiplex available to 90% of the population from 31st October 2010. On 29th October, RTÉ launched the DTT service (called Saorview) to over 90% of the population on a pilot basis. RTE considered that a pilot phase was essential to provide for the roll out of the network nationally, test new content and to allow for technical testing. In addition they considered that this period could be used to develop additional content and services and to ensure the availability of a variety of Saorview approved receivers, prior to the national launch. Because of the nature of this pilot phase it was considered appropriate that broadcasters should not be charged for DTT services during this period.

    The pilot network is available to the public and currently broadcasts RTÉ 1, RTÉ 2, TG4, TV3, 3e and 2 test services - RTÉ News Now service and an RTÉ digital teletext service. RTÉ is proposing a full national launch in the second quarter of 2011. Further information on the RTÉ DTT service is available on www.saorview.ie.

    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/05/17/00221.asp#N2
    Wednesday, 18 May 2011

    128. Deputy Thomas P. Broughan     asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if TV3 and TG4 are paying RTÉ NL in respect of their services on Saorview the digital terrestrial television service; if TV3 will be available on Saorview throughout its initial launch; if he has directed TV3 to appear on Saorview under its licence; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11969/11]

    Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte): It is the responsibility of my Department - in conjunction with RTÉ, the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI), ComReg and other stakeholders - to progress the digital switch-over process so that it meets the 2012 timeline for analogue switch-off. Accordingly, the then Minister imposed by order a requirement on RTÉ to make its public service digital terrestrial television (DTT) multiplex available to 90% of the population from 31 October 2010. On 29 October, RTÉ launched the DTT service (called Saorview) to over 90% of the population on a pilot basis. RTÉ considered that a pilot phase was essential to provide for the roll-out of the network nationally, to test new content and to allow for technical testing. In addition, it considered that this period could be used to develop additional content and services and to ensure the availability of a variety of Saorview-approved receivers prior to the national launch. Due to the nature of this pilot phase, it was considered appropriate that TG4, TV3 and other third party broadcasters would not be charged for DTT services during this period. However, broadcasters including TV3 and TG4 will be required to pay for DTT services on the RTÉ digital network thereafter. The pilot network is available to the public and currently broadcasts RTÉ 1, RTÉ 2, TG4, TV3, 3e and two test services - RTÉ News Now and an RTÉ digital teletext service. RTÉ is proposing a full national launch in the second quarter of 2011. Further information on the RTÉ DTT service is available on www.saorview.ie.

    TV3 is the national commercial TV broadcaster and is licensed under contract with the BAI. This contract provides for TV3 to be carried on the analogue terrestrial TV network which is operated by RTÉ NL. Part 8 of the Broadcasting Act 2009 also provides for the Minister, at the request of the BAI, to make space available for TV3 on the RTÉ digital network. The BAI made such a request on behalf of TV3 in 2010 and TV3 was facilitated with space on the RTÉ digital network for both TV3 and 3e, which is owned by TV3. While a decision to use the RTÉ digital network is ultimately a commercial decision for TV3, I consider that TV3’s request for space on the digital network is a positive indication of its continued interest in national broadcasting in Ireland and a clear signal of its intent in this regard.

    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/05/18/00099.asp#N2


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    #1374
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,481 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Elmo wrote: »
    The Cush wrote: »
    As you only found out recently that Saorview is a public trial service I assume you have contacted the Dept of Communications in relation to their error in approving the Oct trial launch with regard to their own SI.

    Sadly I did :).

    Did you get a reply from the Dept of Communications?


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    #1375
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,481 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Karsini wrote: »
    Also the two test channels seem to be working on a time share, channel 7 is showing a test card with EPG data of "Test Service." Channel 8 is a black screen with "Programmes start at 19:00" in the EPG data and "Test service" from 19:00 onwards.

    You appear to be correct - testing the configuration prior to launch of the channels, time sharing audio and video. This appears to be the situation now from Mullaghanish on Mux 1 (Ch 21). Mux 2 (Ch 24) carries the two test cards and audio as before.

    On Mux 1, on epg#8 Test Service I have the test card with LyricFM audio (+ the 2 other audio streams) - previously epg#8 was tone audio only. Programme time on the info bar is 19:00 - 06:59. This is probably the location for RTÉ1+1.

    on epg#7 Test Service no video or audio, when channel 7 is selected the info bar momentarily displays "Programmes start at 07:00" and then changes to "Selected programme is not available". This is probably the location for RTÉjr.

    The epg displays the following info for epg#7 Test Service as "Programmes start at 07:00" with "Test Service" from 0700. For epg#8 Test Service the epg displays "Test Service" until 0700 then "Programmes start at 19:00".

    When the channels eventually launch will the off-air channel continue to display a blank screen or will there be an on-screen message? How is it done on Freeview/Freesat receivers for BBC3/4 & CBebbies/CBBC? My FTA sat receiver display both on the same channel.


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    #1376
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The Cush wrote: »

    How is it done on Freeview/Freesat receivers for BBC3/4 & CBebbies/CBBC? My FTA sat receiver display both on the same channel.

    On Freesat, the BBC3 and BBC4 both display 'Channel not available' when they are off. Ceebies etc do the same.

    That would appear to be what will happen here.


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    #1377
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,481 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    On Freesat, the BBC3 and BBC4 both display 'Channel not available' when they are off. Ceebies etc do the same.

    Is it a separate video stream or generated by the receiver e.g. MHEG-5?


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    #1378
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,998 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I had Saorview tuned into my Sony Bravia but I was only getting black screens on all channels today.

    Was there a problem? Or is it local to me?

    Edit: ok, back working again today


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    #1379
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    NIMAN wrote: »
    I had Saorview tuned into my Sony Bravia but I was only getting black screens on all channels today.

    Was there a problem? Or is it local to me?

    What model Bravia?


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    #1380
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The Cush wrote: »
    Is it a separate video stream or generated by the receiver e.g. MHEG-5?

    It is the same video stream. It is nothing to do with MHEG5.


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    #1381
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    The Cush wrote: »
    Did you get a reply from the Dept of Communications?

    Unfortunately if you want to make sure a public body and department are carrying out their role in an SI you have to take them to the Supreme Court, the AG wouldn't be too happy and I really don't have the money for such extremes. The Dept were clear it was only a trial..... just not in the SI ....
    When the channels eventually launch will the off-air channel continue to display a blank screen or will there be an on-screen message? How is it done on Freeview/Freesat receivers for BBC3/4 & CBebbies/CBBC? My FTA sat receiver display both on the same channel.

    UPC don't provide on screen messages when channels go of air. It is simple a message in the EPG. You would think that they could on cable.

    IMO RTÉNL are charging far too much for DTT channels. This is because they perceive it to be only one MUX and 6 SD channels, 1 HD channel and 10 radio stations. TV3 could pay up to €1.5 for both TV3 and 3e. (Same price the currently have for analogue).

    The commercial mux has to be launch, a separate RTÉ NL will take the same opinion.

    Prices below (2012)

    Radio from 60000 to 92000
    SD TV from 748000

    Costs reduce as more channels are added to the service and as channels move from SD to HD.
    While a decision to use the RTÉ digital network is ultimately a commercial decision for TV3, I consider that TV3’s request for space on the digital network is a positive indication of its continued interest in national broadcasting in Ireland and a clear signal of its intent in this regard.

    This is a worrying part of the response. While TV3 where happy to provide TV3 and 3e for free on the "trial" phase of the MPEG 4 DTT project, commercially there is nothing stopping them from removing the channels from Saorview should they have to pay. While they may have an interest in national broadcasting (even though that is not the case on analogue) they also understand that they don't need Terrestrial for audience share. IMO TV3 will continue to be placed for free on Saorview until ASO.


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