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Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

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    #9812
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,565 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Thankfully this ****e doesn't have any standing in Irish politics and when they say 10 pm deadline then that's it, No standing talking for 12 hours, they will be shut down and vote will go ahead.

    Welcome to the 21st century Ireland it's a bright new future:)

    Sometimes Filibustering can be used in reverse. Google Texas Democratic State Senator Wendy Davis's 11 hour filibuster to derail a bill which would have brought in a 20 week abortion ban and effectively closed most abortion clinics in Texas. She succeeded.

    She was supported by this woman's (Katie Heim) reading of her own poem: https://soundcloud.com/dsrauf/if-my-vagina-was-a-gun, and by Sarah Slamen, who was removed from the Chamber by four Texas State Troopers as the Chair didn't like her testimony style. :) Their appearance was before the Texas Senate Health and Human Services committee hearing on an anti-abortion bill.


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    #9813
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    aloyisious wrote: »
    Sometimes Filibustering can be used in reverse. Google Texas Democratic State Senator Wendy Davis's 11 hour filibuster to derail a bill which would have brought in a 20 week abortion ban and effectively closed most abortion clinics in Texas. She succeeded.

    She was supported by this woman's (Katie Heim) reading of her own poem: https://soundcloud.com/dsrauf/if-my-vagina-was-a-gun, and by Sarah Slamen, who was removed from the Chamber by four Texas State Troopers as the Chair didn't like her testimony style. :) Their appearance was before the Texas Senate Health and Human Services committee hearing on an anti-abortion bill.

    True i agree that in some cases it's a good thing (i followed Wendy Davies's fillibuster online and twitter) But i am glad that no one will get the chance to use it tonight to try and stop this going through.
    The Black Oil wrote: »
    Passed Leinster House on the bus at around 7:35 this morning. Around 30-40* pro life protestors were there.

    *In pro-life speak that's about 400.


    Seriously made me spurt coffee all over my desk WP sir WP :D


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    #9814
    maguic24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭maguic24


    Any pro-choicers going to Leinster House this evening to support the pro-choice side?


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    #9815
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    maguic24 wrote: »
    Any pro-choicers going to Leinster House this evening to support the pro-choice side?

    Can't make this evening (gotta collect the young lad as she working late) But i might take a gander up there at dinner time to film the pro lifers for fun and giggles:D


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    #9816
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0710/461571-abortion-legislation/

    Looks like both sides will be there today.

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



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    #9817
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Given this godawful heat I am all for the floodgates being opened.


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    #9818
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Sarky wrote: »
    Given this godawful heat I am all for the floodgates being opened.

    Put a couple of water filled paddling pools next to the pro lifers....give it 5 minutes there will be a gang of 60 drunken, lobster coloured, scobie scrotes jumping into them and screaming abuse at the pro lifers. Hopefully they knock 7 shades of ****e out of each other and we can be rid of 2 useless drains on society for a couple of weeks while they recuperate in one fell swoop :D


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    #9819
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    The Black Oil wrote: »
    Passed Leinster House on the bus at around 7:35 this morning. Around 30-40* pro life protestors were there.

    *In pro-life speak that's about 400.

    "YD estimates 40,000 people attend rally"

    9.951-tiny-crowd-magnified.jpg


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    #9820
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    No. It doesn't.

    While a fetus is utterly dependent on it's habitation of a woman's womb in order to survive the decision as to whether it is welcome in that womb is utterly up to the owner of the womb.

    Once it is capable of survival outside the womb then we are in a different territory where it is possible to terminate the pregnancy without that meaning terminating the fetus as well.

    I don't see the problem.

    Not retracting I see - colour me completely unsurprised.
    Why should I retract a perfectly reasonable question based on your own statements?

    Could you please clarify without trying to dance around:

    Are you opposed to abortions where the foetus is killed at the stage where the foetus/viable baby could realistically survive? So that's from 24 weeks (or perhaps a little less)


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    #9821
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Put a couple of water filled paddling pools next to the pro lifers....give it 5 minutes there will be a gang of 60 drunken, lobster coloured, scobie scrotes jumping into them and screaming abuse at the pro lifers. Hopefully they knock 7 shades of ****e out of each other and we can be rid of 2 useless drains on society for a couple of weeks while they recuperate in one fell swoop :D

    Are there any other groups you feel hatred for?


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    #9822
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    The post which you responded to with that question, is the answer to that question. As are about half of the responses to you in the last page alone. Not to mention the previous pages which also contain an explanation amounting to "abortion happens on pregnancy not foetus" at a rate of at least one per page. You are insulting everyone's intelligence, not least your own, by pretending not to get this.

    What I am asking you is what is the difference in practical terms.

    If you go for an "abortion" you are getting them to kill the foetus.

    abortion = ending pregnancy = killing unborn child


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    #9823
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Are there any other groups you feel hatred for?

    You know me well?

    Let me explain something to you. I "hate" no body i do not have it in me to feel "hate" towards anyone at this time in my life. This may change in the future as i don't know what will happen in the future but at the moment i don't "hate" anyone.

    On the other hand i do dislike people who continue to post on in an inflamatory way hoping to get a strong reaction from others Drama queens gonna drama queen i suppose :D


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    #9824
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Are there any other groups you feel hatred for?
    bumper234 wrote: »
    Drama queens gonna drama queen i suppose :D
    Folks, I know it's hard in this weather, but chill please.


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    #9825
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    smokingman wrote: »
    Only after the surgeons are finished the AK-47 part, then it's grand....

    Seriously lad, if you're in this country, please don't rant on about something that's not applicable in this country.

    I am trying to ascertain if "pro-choice" people consider "choice" to come before everything else - even if the consequences are horrendous.

    Are you pro-choice?

    Would you like to see mothers have the "choice" to abort what is essentially their fully developed baby still in their womb?


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    #9826
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    I am trying to ascertain if "pro-choice" people consider "choice" to come before everything else - even if the consequences are horrendous.

    Are you pro-choice?

    Would you like to see mothers have the "choice" to abort what is essentially their fully developed baby still in their womb?

    If it is to save the mothers life then yes.

    If it is because they just don't want the baby then no.


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    #9827
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    abortion = ending pregnancy = killing unborn child

    I don't know if you missed my post pointing out that this is not the case in Ireland in terms of medical practice and the law. I'll repeat myself in case you missed it.

    In Ireland, whether a pregnancy is aborted/terminated/interupted by natural or artificial means all efforts are made to save the lives of the woman and the baby. At 18 weeks this might be difficult, but the effort will be made. At 24 weeks the baby would be incubated and receive the necessary treatment. Same as happens now.

    A medical team in an Irish hospital does not act the way you seem to be suggesting. This may be different in other jusrisdictions, but this is Ireland, and this is how things happen here. You may have friends or family or have read cases of how things are done in other countries and be confusing that with how things are done here. There's no need to be confused any longer because I've now spelled out what happens in Ireland for you, and not for the first time.


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    #9828
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Why should I retract a perfectly reasonable question based on your own statements?

    Could you please clarify without trying to dance around:

    Are you opposed to abortions where the foetus is killed at the stage where the foetus/viable baby could realistically survive? So that's from 24 weeks (or perhaps a little less)

    The only person I see dancing around here is you.

    I did clarify - or do you not know what 'exceptional circumstances' means?

    If it is a choice between the life of the woman or the life of the fetus I believe that choice lies with the woman and the woman only.
    You, on the other hand, seem to want to allow women no choice and expect them to die to save a fetus regardless of the circumstances.

    Such a black and white world you live in which you seem to believe allows you the freedom to throw accusations around and demand we dance to your tune.


  • Options
    #9829
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    I am trying to ascertain if "pro-choice" people consider "choice" to come before everything else - even if the consequences are horrendous.

    Are you pro-choice?

    Would you like to see mothers have the "choice" to abort what is essentially their fully developed baby still in their womb?

    I'm pro-choice but that choice is for a woman to cease being pregnant.


  • Options
    #9830
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    lazygal wrote: »
    I don't know if you missed my post pointing out that this is not the case in Ireland in terms of medical practice and the law. I'll repeat myself in case you missed it.

    In Ireland, whether a pregnancy is aborted/terminated/interupted by natural or artificial means all efforts are made to save the lives of the woman and the baby. At 18 weeks this might be difficult, but the effort will be made. At 24 weeks the baby would be incubated and receive the necessary treatment. Same as happens now.

    A medical team in an Irish hospital does not act the way you seem to be suggesting. This may be different in other jusrisdictions, but this is Ireland, and this is how things happen here. You may have friends or family or have read cases of how things are done in other countries and be confusing that with how things are done here. There's no need to be confused any longer because I've now spelled out what happens in Ireland for you, and not for the first time.

    Excellent post.

    This so true so far he has ranted about how things are done in America which is nothing to do with Irish law.

    He ranted about how things are (may?) be done in Canada which is nothing to do with Irish law.

    He even went on to tell us about how his partners mother was forced to carry to term in Chile (during a military junta occupation) in the 70s which is nothing to do with Irish law.:confused:


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    #9831
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    The only person I see dancing around here is you.

    I did clarify - or do you not know what 'exceptional circumstances' means?

    If it is a choice between the life of the woman or the life of the fetus I believe that choice lies with the woman and the woman only.
    You, on the other hand, seem to want to allow women no choice and expect them to die to save a fetus regardless of the circumstances.

    Such a black and white world you live in which you seem to believe allows you the freedom to throw accusations around and demand we dance to your tune.

    You still haven't answered the question. I made no mention of the mother being in danger. I'll ask again:

    Are you for or against the healthy mothers choice to kill her healthy 24 week old baby in her womb for no other reason than she wants to do it?


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    #9832
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    You're just not going to be happy until you've painted us all as unrepentant baby killers, are you?


  • Options
    #9833
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    lazygal wrote: »
    I don't know if you missed my post pointing out that this is not the case in Ireland in terms of medical practice and the law. I'll repeat myself in case you missed it.

    In Ireland, whether a pregnancy is aborted/terminated/interupted by natural or artificial means all efforts are made to save the lives of the woman and the baby. At 18 weeks this might be difficult, but the effort will be made. At 24 weeks the baby would be incubated and receive the necessary treatment. Same as happens now.

    A medical team in an Irish hospital does not act the way you seem to be suggesting. This may be different in other jusrisdictions, but this is Ireland, and this is how things happen here. You may have friends or family or have read cases of how things are done in other countries and be confusing that with how things are done here. There's no need to be confused any longer because I've now spelled out what happens in Ireland for you, and not for the first time.
    Why would any effort be made to save the baby when the whole purpose of the procedure is to kill it?


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    #9834
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Excellent post.

    This so true so far he has ranted about how things are done in America which is nothing to do with Irish law.

    He ranted about how things are (may?) be done in Canada which is nothing to do with Irish law.

    He even went on to tell us about how his partners mother was forced to carry to term in Chile (during a military junta occupation) in the 70s which is nothing to do with Irish law.:confused:
    Keep up.

    My wife's mother rather than having a child she couldn't care for or killing her baby gave her to an orphanage meaning she had a chance at life


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    #9835
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Why would any effort be made to save the baby when the whole purpose of the procedure is to kill it?

    Did you even read the post you're quoting?

    MODS - PLEASE ALLOW ME TO SHOUT.

    IN IRELAND DOCTORS DO NOT SET OUT TO KILL THE BABY. THEY MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO DELIVER IT ALIVE AND WILL TREAT IT MEDICALLY ON DELIVERY WHETHER THE PREGNANCY IS TERMINATED BY MEDICAL OR NATURAL MEANS. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS IN IRELAND. IT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH MEDICAL PRACTICE IN OTHER COUNTRIES. IF THIS IS NOT CLEAR ENOUGH, I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE I CAN DO TO GET IT INTO YOUR HEAD THAT IRISH ABORTION LAW IS NOT ABOUT KILLING BABIES, ITS ABOUT SAVING THE LIVES OF WOMEN AND BABIES.


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    #9836
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,516 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Why would any effort be made to save the baby when the whole purpose of the procedure is to kill it?
    The whole purpose of it is to end the pregnancy. Information you have been wilfully ignoring for the last 5 pages or so, despite being explicitly told over and over by a multitude of posters.

    I fully support a woman's right to choose to end her pregnancy at any stage. She doesn't have the right to kill the baby, but if the baby can not survive without her, then the baby will die

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    #9837
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    You still haven't answered the question. I made no mention of the mother being in danger. I'll ask again:

    Are you for or against the healthy mothers choice to kill her healthy 24 week old baby in her womb for no other reason than she wants to do it?

    I have answered.

    1044911_574250382613272_445437885_n.jpg


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    #9838
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I have answered.

    No you haven't. Have you got something to hide..?


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    #9839
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    28064212 wrote: »
    The whole purpose of it is to end the pregnancy.

    Could you please tell me what the difference is? What are will be the methods of "ending preganancy" that doesn't kill the unborn child?


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    #9840
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    What I am asking you is what is the difference in practical terms.

    If you go for an "abortion" you are getting them to kill the foetus.

    abortion = ending pregnancy = killing unborn child
    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Why would any effort be made to save the baby when the whole purpose of the procedure is to kill it?

    The only conceivable way you could genuinely not be getting this is if English wasn't your first language, you had the worlds worst translator translating the posts to you and you were holding a gun to his head to force him to translate your responses back to us, despite him repeatedly telling you that you don't understand a word of what people are saying to you.

    That is the ONLY conceivable way you could repeatedly keep saying the exact opposite of what every damn post has told you how abortion works without once acknowledging what they say, and not be taking the piss. :mad:


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    #9841
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    bumper234 wrote: »
    If it is to save the mothers life then yes.

    If it is because they just don't want the baby then no.
    Good. We're agreed. But why not kill an 8 month foetus in the womb if the mother decides she doesn't want to be pregnant?


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