Formula 1 2012: General Discussion Thread

freestyla · 24-04-2012 4:50pm

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Yeah, saw that photo before.

Here is Gary Andersons view on the Ferrari side pods:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JxdladIqn0

I don't get it, why Ferrari can't produce new side pods and whatever parts as fast as, for example, RedBull are doing? RB is playing with two different exhaust body panels since beginning of the season.
I think Ferrari still has some fundamental problem in their wind tunnel/factory OR they simply don't have skilled enough engineers. It's not about money for sure nor it's about actual racing team onsite.

When you look Ferrari's stepped nose, isn't it just a plain step? It doesn't seem to have any kind of air flow managing lines. If you look Merc , their nose is twisty and streamlined.. many others cars too. Ferrari designed theirs with a notepad? __/

Jordan 199 · 25-04-2012 12:40am

freestyla wrote: »

I don't get it, why Ferrari can't produce new side pods and whatever parts as fast as, for example, RedBull are doing? RB is playing with two different exhaust body panels since beginning of the season.
I think Ferrari still has some fundamental problem in their wind tunnel/factory OR they simply don't have skilled enough engineers. It's not about money for sure nor it's about actual racing team onsite.

When you look Ferrari's stepped nose, isn't it just a plain step? It doesn't seem to have any kind of air flow managing lines. If you look Merc , their nose is twisty and streamlined.. many others cars too. Ferrari designed theirs with a notepad? __/

Ferrari chose to go down the radical route for this years car and it hasn't worked for them at all as we can see. So I say instead of coming up with minor upgrades for the 'flyaway' races, Ferrari have to decided to solely focus on major upgrades, the first of which we will see at Mugello with more upgrades due for the Spanish GP. I expect the car will have a new rear end, exhaust system plus other upgrades.

losthorizon · 25-04-2012 7:01pm

Bernie Ecclestone has announced that the French Grand Prix will be returning from 2013 onwards at Paul Ricard.

http://www.lequipe.fr/Formule-1/Actualites/Ecclestone-a-dit-oui/278825

Hey, what do you know, he owns that track.

I think I read somewhere else that its going to rotate with Spa :mad:

decisions · 25-04-2012 7:10pm

losthorizon wrote: »

I think I read somewhere else that its going to rotate with Spa :mad:

NOOoooooooooooooo!!!

25-04-2012 8:45pm

Goddamnit.

Glico Man · 25-04-2012 8:52pm

Yay! Another flat circuit with little to no actual characteristics other than some fancy blue/black coloured run off areas and a long ish straight. Hope to god that they at least change the layout somewhat and make it more interesting.

I also read that they were alternating with Spa every year, that sucks major major ass. Spa is easily the best track on the calender and they're keeping Valencia... the mind boggles

Daniel S · 25-04-2012 8:54pm

aaronh007 wrote: »

Yay! Another flat circuit with little to no actual characteristics other than some fancy blue/black coloured run off areas and a long ish straight. Hope to god that they at least change the layout somewhat and make it more interesting.

I also read that they were alternating with Spa every year, that sucks major major ass. Spa is easily the best track on the calender and they're keeping Valencia... the mind boggles

As always, money money money money money....

Glico Man · 25-04-2012 8:56pm

Daniel S wrote: »

As always, money money money money money....

Suppose Bernie has to keep the money flowing to finance his daughters lavish spending

95 million that cost :eek:

SnowDrifts · 25-04-2012 9:05pm

aaronh007 wrote: »

Suppose Bernie has to keep the money flowing to finance his daughters lavish spending

95 million that cost :eek:

Pocket change to him.

Such a shame about Spa if it is true. I remember my first time there and seeing my first F1 car charge up eau rouge. It was spectacular.

Glico Man · 25-04-2012 9:14pm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Ricard is actually quite a nice track and is well liked by drivers who race at it.

Its very tedious viewing though. I've seen countless GT and Ferrari challenge races and they've always been very samey. Very little overtaking outside pitting as there aren't many spots to challenge to get past. Even Mistral straight leads to a fast right hander where overtaking isn't really possible unless there's driver error.

SilverScreen · 25-04-2012 9:29pm

aaronh007 wrote: »

Yay! Another flat circuit with little to no actual characteristics other than some fancy blue/black coloured run off areas and a long ish straight. Hope to god that they at least change the layout somewhat and make it more interesting.

There's actually quite a number of different layouts at Paul Ricard. Hopefully they will be using the same layout that was used up until 1985, the Mistral straight could be one huge DRS zone. But more than likely they will use the chicane on the Mistral straight to slow the cars down before Signes. And yes the circuit was very popular with drivers and spectators back in the day. Still though, I'd love to see F1 return to the rollercoaster that was Dijon.

Glico Man · 25-04-2012 9:49pm

Zero1986 wrote: »

There's actually quite a number of different layouts at Paul Ricard. Hopefully they will be using the same layout that was used up until 1985, the Mistral straight could be one huge DRS zone. But more than likely they will use the chicane on the Mistral straight to slow the cars down before Signes. And yes the circuit was very popular with drivers and spectators back in the day. Still though, I'd love to see F1 return to the rollercoaster that was Dijon.

Dijon was always my favorite track in france. I've spent hours watching F1 re runs. '79 with Arnoux and Villeneuve was classic f1

SilverScreen · 25-04-2012 10:04pm

aaronh007 wrote: »

Dijon was always my favorite track in france. I've spent hours watching F1 re runs. '79 with Arnoux and Villeneuve was classic f1

France has had some really great F1 circuits over the years, Rouen, Clermont-Ferrand and Reims in particular. Hell I'd even rather see F1 return to Magny-Cours than watch them race at Valencia or Abu Dabi.

It's great to see the French Grand Prix back though considering the history that it has.

Glico Man · 25-04-2012 10:10pm

Zero1986 wrote: »

France has had some really great F1 circuits over the years, Rouen, Clermont-Ferrand and Reims in particular. Hell I'd even rather see F1 return to Magny-Cours than watch them race at Valencia or Abu Dabi.

It's great to see the French Grand Prix back though considering the history that it has.

I'd agree with that. Happy to have France back on the map, especially so with Grosjean for them to follow now too. And at least Paul Ricard is more accessible for fans via Marseille than say Magny-Cours in the middle of nowhere.

Jordan 199 · 25-04-2012 10:20pm

Zero1986 wrote: »

There's actually quite a number of different layouts at Paul Ricard. Hopefully they will be using the same layout that was used up until 1985, the Mistral straight could be one huge DRS zone. But more than likely they will use the chicane on the Mistral straight to slow the cars down before Signes.

Paul Ricard, last held the French GP in 1990. The old Mistral Straight was 1.8km long!

I'd say this will be the layout for the race:

SilverScreen · 25-04-2012 10:28pm

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Paul Ricard, last held the French GP in 1990. The old Mistral Straight was 1.8km long!

They used a shorter layout though after Elio de Angelis' death there in 1986. They turned right just before Verriere and they only used just over half of Mistral Straight. I'm hoping they will use the original layout but of course they would have to sanitise it, the feckers. If I'm not mistaken isn't there a chicane now at Verriere as well?

Jordan 199 · 25-04-2012 10:32pm

One of the reasons the Belgian GP is going to alternate with the French GP is that Spa can't afford to host the race every year, and having it rotating with the race at Paul Ricard is the only real option if the GP at Spa is to survive.

Jordan 199 · 25-04-2012 10:37pm

Zero1986 wrote: »

They used a shorter layout though after Elio de Angelis' death there in 1986. They turned right just before Verriere and they only used just over half of Mistral Straight. I'm hoping they will use the original layout but of course they would have to sanitise it, the feckers. If I'm not mistaken isn't there a chicane now at Verriere as well?

Here is the 1986 to 1999 GP layout:

Paul%20Ricard%201986.gif

3.812 km long.

25-04-2012 11:30pm

aaronh007 wrote: »

Its very tedious viewing though. I've seen countless GT and Ferrari challenge races and they've always been very samey. Very little overtaking outside pitting as there aren't many spots to challenge to get past. Even Mistral straight leads to a fast right hander where overtaking isn't really possible unless there's driver error.

There's a few tracks that are boring as **** when F1 run on them yet produce good action for other categories so ya never know how F1 cars will be like on it til they've had a race around it.

Jordan 199 · 26-04-2012 3:52pm

Zero1986 wrote: »

France has had some really great F1 circuits over the years, Rouen, Clermont-Ferrand and Reims in particular. Hell I'd even rather see F1 return to Magny-Cours than watch them race at Valencia or Abu Dabi.

It's great to see the French Grand Prix back though considering the history that it has.

There was an article in F1 Racing a good few years about the track in Rouen, great track.

This was the layout 1955 - 1970:

Rouen%2055.gif

Jordan 199 · 26-04-2012 3:58pm

Here is the dice with Arnoux and Villeneuve at Dijon in 1979.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl2tIFxSEGA

Race winner Jean Pierre Jabouille was the first driver to win in a turbo charged F1 car, but it wasn't until 1983 when a turbo charged F1 car powered a driver to the championship (Piquet in a Brabham BMW).

losthorizon · 26-04-2012 8:22pm

Jordan 191 wrote: »

There was an article in F1 Racing a good few years about the track in Rouen, great track.

This was the layout 1955 - 1970:

I used to drive that on a game called GP Legends I think it was called. Became Hooked at one stage. But I was seriously good on the Rouen track as I just used to drive that all the time.

Its the Hills, see. Hills make a good track.

Its completely gone now apparently http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rouen-Les-Essarts

SilverScreen · 26-04-2012 10:29pm

losthorizon wrote: »

I used to drive that on a game called GP Legends I think it was called. Became Hooked at one stage. But I was seriously good on the Rouen track as I just used to drive that all the time.

Its the Hills, see. Hills make a good track.

Its completely gone now apparently http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rouen-Les-Essarts

I've driven on it in GP Legends and also a mod for Grand Prix 2. It's a thrilling circuit, especially the downhill section to Nouveau Monde.

Regarding Reims here's something very interesting

http://g.co/maps/r4u4u

-gilly-09- · 27-04-2012 2:21pm

That layout reminds me of something

Stingray:

Rouen%2055.gif

French GP layout 1955 - 1970:

stingray-Dasyatis-pastinaca-Vermerette-Herm-181009-%C2%A9RLLord-9329-em.jpg

lord lucan · 27-04-2012 10:11pm

Zero1986 wrote: »

I've driven on it in GP Legends and also a mod for Grand Prix 2. It's a thrilling circuit, especially the downhill section to Nouveau Monde.

Regarding Reims here's something very interesting
http://g.co/maps/r4u4u

Great little video from 4 years ago showing a drive around the remnants of the old circuit. Well worth the watch.

losthorizon · 27-04-2012 10:55pm

Great Post. Going Up the Hill was a Great place for overtaking especially just before the turn towards the right.

Dijon is still around. I would love to see a return to there as well as Imola despite its bad memories

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dijon-Prenois

Jordan 199 · 28-04-2012 1:14am

Here's a couple of articles about Rouen-les-Essarts.

Article 1

Article 2

losthorizon · 28-04-2012 11:07am

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Here's a couple of articles about Rouen-les-Essarts.

Article 1

Article 2

Such a shame. Two great articles.

Jordan 199 · 28-04-2012 3:25pm

Isuzu and F1.

Never knew that till now. Would have been interesting to see how it performed in races.

Sheeps · 28-04-2012 4:03pm

I just bought tickets to paddock for the Bavaria City racing. Complete impulse buy. : /

Myrddin · 28-04-2012 7:29pm

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Isuzu and F1.

Never knew that till now. Would have been interesting to see how it performed in races.

That exhaust manifold is a work of art :cool:

Jordan 199 · 28-04-2012 7:46pm

EnterNow wrote: »

That exhaust manifold is a work of art :cool:

Hey man, how are ya?

Exhaust manifold sure looks good.

And on another note, no date was given when Lotus tested the Isuzu powerplant, but I'd say it was around '91 or '92. Back then the Porsche, Ferrari Lamborghini and Honda engines were V12's.

The Porsche engines in 1991 stank and during the season Footwork Arrows went back to using customer Cosworth DFR V8's.

Jordan 199 · 29-04-2012 1:15am

EnterNow wrote: »

That exhaust manifold is a work of art :cool:

Speaking of exhausts, take a look at this one that's on a Ferrari 312:

:eek:

smellslikeshoes · 29-04-2012 1:40am

There is something almost.....sexual about that picture :eek:

PJTierney · 30-04-2012 3:01pm

Sheeps wrote: »

I just bought tickets to paddock for the Bavaria City racing. Complete impulse buy. : /

Thinking of doing the same as I'm in Dublin that weekend anyways for a different event.

Jordan 199 · 30-04-2012 5:51pm

I'm currently looking at the May 2002 edition of F1 Racing (with Jenson Button on the cover).

I'm comparing retirements from the fourth races of the 2002 & 2012 seasons.

10 Retirements from the 2002 San Marino GP:

1: Enrique Bernoldi - Arrows Cosworth A23: fuel pressure - 50 laps.

2: Eddie Irvine - Jaguar R3: driveshaft - 45 laps.

3: Kimi Raikkonen - McLaren Mercedes MP4-17: safety - 44 laps.

4: Olivier Panis - BAR Honda 004: throttle linkage - 30 laps.

5: Pedro De La Rosa - Jaguar R3: driveshaft - 30 laps.

6: Mika Salo - Toyota TF102: gearbox - 26 laps.

7: Heinz Harald Frentzen - Arrows Cosworth A23: fuel pressure - 25 laps.

8: Giancarlo Fisichella - Jordan Honda EJ12: hydraulics - 19 laps.

9: Takuma Sato - Jordan Honda EJ12: gearbox - 5 laps.

10: Alan McNish - Toyota TF102: gearbox 5 laps.

3 retirements from the 2012 Bahrain GP:

1: Charles Pic - Marussia Cosworth MR01: transmission - 24 laps.

2: Pastor Maldonado - Williams Renault FW34: puncture - 25 laps.

3: Bruno Senna - Williams Renault FW34: engine - 54 laps.

There was 11 teams in the 2002 season and 12 teams this season.

If you remove Raikkonen & Maldonado from the equation, you can see how reliable the cars are today compared to those 10 years ago.

losthorizon · 30-04-2012 6:07pm

Apparently Mark Webber is going to sign for Ferrari next season according to the BBC.

Also this is interesting

http://www.sauberf1team.com/en/news.cfm?id=I4P617A9-%3Cfont_color=000%3ESauber_F1_Team_and_Chelsea_FC_enter_into_partnership%3Cfont%3E

Sauber logos will also appear on billboards around Stamford Bridge and during the interviews of godlike players we can all look up to the likes of John Terry.

johnnysmack · 30-04-2012 7:31pm

That is actually a very clever thing for Sauber to do. Hope it works out for them and they keep improving.

Jordan 199 · 01-05-2012 12:44am

When "Out of the Blue" and "True Blue" appeared on the Sauber engine covers, some people thought it was IBM, who are known as "Big Blue".

Cookie_Monster · 01-05-2012 4:23am

Jordan 191 wrote: »

If you remove Raikkonen & Maldonado from the equation, you can see how reliable the cars are today compared to those 10 years ago.

which is a pity IMO, F1 needs more blow ups and more pushing tech to the ragged edge where it can fail, just to mix things up a bit more. The rules governing lasting parts and x per year do nothing for the sport IMO

losthorizon wrote: »

Apparently Mark Webber is going to sign for Ferrari next season according to the BBC.

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:
Ferrari aren't retards, no way that'd happen. Webber is not nearly good enough to justify it.

freestyla · 01-05-2012 10:19am

Jordan 191 wrote: »

When "Out of the Blue" and "True Blue" appeared on the Sauber engine covers, some people thought it was IBM, who are known as "Big Blue".

IBM is miserly old skool dinosaurs, will never see sponsoring such a big events :P Just saying since I know the company a bit.

I'm a wondering tho why Google, Paypal etc new modern internet giants are not more visible in such a tech sport as F1 is

Imagine they could give a lot in promoting a team or two with all social media networking tools.

PJTierney · 01-05-2012 4:41pm

Jordan 199 · 01-05-2012 4:45pm

freestyla wrote: »

IBM is miserly old skool dinosaurs, will never see sponsoring such a big events

They sponsored the works Porsche 911 GT1 sportscar team in the 90's

Don't know how long the relationship lasted for though.

Zagato · 01-05-2012 4:49pm

Ficus wrote: »

I cant see webber staying on at red bull as they are under pressure to feed people through to them from their driver program, and also they want someone to tow the red bull line and not speak their mind, of which webber regularly does.

Well if any team doesn't want their driver to speak their mind, it's Ferrari. So I don't know how that would wash.

Cookie_Monster · 01-05-2012 10:28pm

Ficus wrote: »

I wouldnt be too sure about that just yet. Ferrari are in a small bit of a bind at the minute and need a experienced driver along with fernando to help drive the car forwards. Webber is know to be excellent in the setup and development area. And also dont forget that fernando would get a large say in who is his teamate, and they seem to have a high level of respect for each other.
Remember how everyone thought button was crazy going to Mclaren and that he wasnt good enough and would get schooled by hamilton, well that didnt happen did it!!!
I cant see webber staying on at red bull as they are under pressure to feed people through to them from their driver program, and also they want someone to tow the red bull line and not speak their mind, of which webber regularly does.

The problem with Webber is despite having the same car as Seb he regularly comes nowhere. How Redbull still let him drive is beyond me, never mind Ferrari. He deserve nothing better than a mid field team IMO, just never performs as he should and to what the car is capable of.
Ferrari have an experienced driver in Alonso already, why the pressing need for another? The need a younger long term prospect who can stay there for years and work with them long term rather than the likes of Webber who'll be around for a year or two at most.

LIGHTNING wrote: »

He is a far better all round driver than Massa. In fact I think my mother is a better driver than Massa :pac:

True, but there are still better prospect out there. I reckon the Perez move is far more likely.

Top Dog · 01-05-2012 11:12pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The problem with Webber is despite having the same car as Seb he regularly comes nowhere.

In 2011 maybe - try looking back a little further. He had 4 wins in 2010 compared with 5 for Seb. In 2009 it was 2 vs 4.

Hardly qualifies him for a mid-field team.

recyclebin · 01-05-2012 11:49pm

Ferrari are not looking for a new number 1. They have Alonso for that. They are just looking for someone reliable to be their number 2 to replace Massa. Webber fits the bill in this regard.

Jordan 199 · 02-05-2012 12:19am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uklB0fgRkfQ

smellslikeshoes · 02-05-2012 3:42am

Would love to see Mark Webber at Ferrari. He has rarely looked the same driver that was bloody close to winning it in 2010. I think he's been psychologically in a rut since then and needs a change and Ferrari seem to be the only top team with a likely open seat for next year.

02-05-2012 3:47am

Ficus wrote: »

Exactly. And dont forget that Webber got more fastest laps last year than any other driver

Yeah because he spent his races burning through tyres.

Formula 1 2012: General Discussion Thread

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