"It's what you do next that counts"

Woddle · 01-03-2012 1:47pm

04072511 wrote: »

Yeh, you'd need to be in high 26/low 27 200m shape to run sub 60 I reckon, and also have a good base of speed endurance on top of that speed. Very much doable though. What's your 100m speed?

Good targets there.

Havn't the foggiest, had an untimed race against an older club runner who had been a sprinter and he beat me easily by a few meters.
I learned two things though, when you're running that fast a 100m is a long bloody way and the other thing I learned is that I don't have a clue how to run it. He tried given me a couple of pointers with driving the knees and all that but it just felt alien. I reckon 400m would be as low as I go.

Woddle · 01-03-2012 1:52pm

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

If your goal for 1500m is 4:45, isn't a sub 5 minute mile just a case of continuing on for another 100m in 15 seconds?!

You're right it wouldn't be too far away, a quick look at mcmillan and he gives an equivelant of 4:37 for 1500.
Maybe I'll take the tungunska approach and put no limits on it

BTW looking at your over trained list is very interesting, you hit 8. I reckon if I filled it in last week I would have had a clean sweep.

BeepBeep67 · 01-03-2012 2:19pm

Well done on bouncing back so well?
Out of interest how do know that your HR zones are accurate?

Pisco Sour · 01-03-2012 2:24pm

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

If your goal for 1500m is 4:45, isn't a sub 5 minute mile just a case of continuing on for another 100m in 15 seconds?!

You'd be some man altogether if you could manage the last 109m of a mile in 15 seconds!

A sub 5 mile is around a 4:35/36 1500m.

Woddle · 01-03-2012 2:25pm

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Well done on bouncing back so well?
Out of interest how do know that your HR zones are accurate?

Thanks BB and glad to see you back and at it.

For two reason. I've always worn a heart rate strap and the max in a race always seems to be within a couple of beats either side of 200. 198 last night for example and I have recorded 203 and 205 before aswell.
The other, I did a test in a lab a couple of years ago and they gave me a 198 (almost certain). It was near enough to 200 and for maths purposes 200 is a handy number.
So although I can't say I'm a 100% certain I reckon I'm close enough.

Pisco Sour · 01-03-2012 2:27pm

Woddle wrote: »

Havn't the foggiest, had an untimed race against an older club runner who had been a sprinter and he beat me easily by a few meters.
I learned two things though, when you're running that fast a 100m is a long bloody way and the other thing I learned is that I don't have a clue how to run it. He tried given me a couple of pointers with driving the knees and all that but it just felt alien. I reckon 400m would be as low as I go.

When you are running a 30 second 200m, are you using sprint spikes and running up on your toes, or are you using road running shoes and running with heel strike? If the latter then there's huge scope for improvement. Simply running properly in the correct footwear can make a big difference. Of course it takes plenty of practice to get the proper sprinting technique right. The first time I ran on my toes it just felt so wrong. Was used to always running naturally.

BeepBeep67 · 01-03-2012 2:38pm

Regarding your starting too fast 'issue', running race paced intervals/tempos to get a feel for 'race pace'. Also when you get back out racing regularly in local races you'll get to know who should be around you in a race.
I see a training partner worked for you with the time trial, have you considered using a pacer for your new few races?

Woddle · 01-03-2012 3:02pm

04072511 wrote: »

When you are running a 30 second 200m, are you using sprint spikes and running up on your toes, or are you using road running shoes and running with heel strike? If the latter then there's huge scope for improvement. Simply running properly in the correct footwear can make a big difference. Of course it takes plenty of practice to get the proper sprinting technique right. The first time I ran on my toes it just felt so wrong. Was used to always running naturally.

Road shoes with a midfoot strike. I never could get used to spikes but I'm going to make it a point this time, definitely loads of room for improvement. When I'm helping out with the juveniles, the adult sprinters do be training at the same time and you can clearly see the difference in their form compared with the road runners doing 400s.

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Regarding your starting too fast 'issue', running race paced intervals/tempos to get a feel for 'race pace'. Also when you get back out racing regularly in local races you'll get to know who should be around you in a race.
I see a training partner worked for you with the time trial, have you considered using a pacer for your new few races?

You're right and Larry has me doing strides and 1k reps at roughly race pace on race week but I'm just a dumb ass who forgets everything on the start line

Having seen the benefit of a faster training partner last night it's definitely the way to go.

Larry Brent · 01-03-2012 4:23pm

Woddle wrote: »

My heart rate average was 95% of max and the last mile was at 98% of max. I've never ran at that intensity for a 5k before. So a lot of confidence taken from it and it showed me that I can get out of my comfort zone. From now on I'll only look at heart rate data after the race.

Only 95%? Slacker

10k should be about 96% HR max, so 5k should be higher that that...

The reason you can push it higher now is due to your training you have trained a greater amount of muscle fibres in your running muscles. As such you can call on or recruit more fibres during races. Hence you can produce more force, i.e. are faster. But it also means more blood is needed to supply all the extra fibres being used, so HR will be higher. So even though you are at 95% now, I bet it's more comfortable than 90% a few months ago?

So you're no longer going to look at HR data in races, check. Now only got to get you to not look at pace data

We'll know you've arrived when you don't wear any watch at a race (although that cost me a Garmin 405 when I threw it to the side of the track before the race and forgot to pick it up afterwards

)

Re pacing, there really are no excuses on a track! Target was 96s a lap, so at 200m you look at the watch, or hear the split called out in a proper race. If it's faster than 48 you slow down if it's slower you pick it up a tad. By 400 you should be bang on pace. You'll get the hang of this once you start doing track sessions regularly in April.

dna_leri · 02-03-2012 1:21pm

Woddle wrote: »

Everything that's been done right now is all about the summer track. I've always reckoned I'm better at shorter and now it's time to see if I'm right.
PBs are
2:30 and 5:14 for 800/1500 both done during marathon training. So with specific training starting in April.
Sub 2:20 for 800
Sub 4:45

and in dream land I'd love a sub 5 minute mile before the summers end.
Also from reading your log you have me wondering about a sub 60 400m, I know right now I can bang out a sub 30 200m handy enough but keeping that going for 400...I'm not so sure.
My club has probably the best track in the country right now so I've no excuses.

Good call on the HRM. Once you get onto the track stuff you won't want it anyway, in fact I believe its technically illegal.

Good targets there for the track season. Looking forward to seeing what kind of sessions you will do for the shorter stuff as I have the same focus this year. Maybe we will cross paths at one of the Graded fixtures.

What's your next training phase about and when will you race again?

Krusty_Clown · 02-03-2012 1:37pm

04072511 wrote: »

You'd be some man altogether if you could manage the last 109m of a mile in 15 seconds!

A sub 5 mile is around a 4:35/36 1500m.

Clearly my math sucks!

I have a buddy who ran 3:40 for 1500m, who reckons he ran a sub-4 mile, by virtue of the fact that all he had to do was keep going (but I suppose 20 seconds to cover 109m at that level is more achievable). Officially though, he's got a 4:05.

ecoli · 02-03-2012 4:52pm

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Clearly my math sucks!

I have a buddy who ran 3:40 for 1500m, who reckons he ran a sub-4 mile, by virtue of the fact that all he had to do was keep going (but I suppose 20 seconds to cover 109m at that level is more achievable). Officially though, he's got a 4:05.

AFAIK the usual conversion to a sub 4 mile is 3.42-43 from most people so would be safe enough to say though you are right end of the day all the tables and coversions in the world dont mean a thing in racing

Woddle · 10-03-2012 3:59pm

dna_leri wrote: »

What's your next training phase about and when will you race again?

The goal race is the Berlin half marathon on April 1st and then hopefully straight into the track stuff. I havn't a clue what type of sessions I'll be doing, Larry will be doing all that for me.

Last few days havn't gone so well
I followed up the 5k TT with a couple of recovery 5 milers. I didn't feel great during these, maybe a little run down, so I took a couple of days off and on

Monday I tested the waters with 8 miles at HMP.
I set the watch to distance only so as not to see any information. I took off at what felt like sub 7 pace. On to the 3rd mile and it starts feeling a little tougher, so I checked the pace on the watch.
My sub 7 miles were in fact 7:20s, so I called it a day and jogged home.

Tuesday, I had planned to get out for a run after the kids training but ended up at indoor footy instead. Really enjoyed myself and it was exactly what I needed. However the doms that followed for the next couple of days, I could have done without and I picked up a knock to my ankle.

So a few more days off and I finally got back out today for an easyish 5. Ankle is still a little sore but nothing serious.

Now with only 3 weeks and 17 hours left I really can't afford anymore missed days.

tunguska · 12-03-2012 6:11pm

Woddle wrote: »

Sun 26th
Dungarvan 10k
Ok so as of tonight I'm finally out of my dark place (more about that later)
It took me two and a half hours to get to Dungarvan which was more than enough time for me to psyche myself out of this race.
I met Pronator before the start (which was a pleasure) and was a welcome distraction from my nerves.
We were off and I looked at the watch after a couple of mins to find I was running 5:55 pace but it felt good. I still decided it would be a good idea to slow it down 6:15 for the first mile. For the next 4 minutes things were still going well but it was feeling tougher and this was confirmed by my watch when I saw 190 bpm on the garmin. This frightened the bejaysus out of me and I really took my foot off the peddle and just started jogging.
I know now that mentally I wasn't ready for the pain and I didn't want to push it, also I did start way too fast which was always going to have a negative effect.
48:59 was my finishing time and the one positive I can take from a really bad day is that I didn't walk

I have to give out to you a little bit here.........Why did you let you let the reading on your heart rate monitor sabotage your race? You have to roll with the punches when you're racing. At some points the effort will be sky high, at others it maybe not be so high. You have to just accept whatever is happening at that moment and not allow it to slow you down. I think you should leave the HR monitor at home in future races, or at least dont display the HR on screen, leave it til afterwards to analyse. You're wrapping yourself up in cotton wool where you dont need to. Youre body is a lot stronger than you think it is, use it, get the most from it.

RayCun · 14-03-2012 3:03pm

Where's woddle?

shels4ever · 14-03-2012 5:40pm

RayCun wrote: »

Where's woddle?

Cheltenham i'd say

chinguetti · 14-03-2012 10:31pm

He's online on the Racing Post looking for winners

Woddle · 14-03-2012 11:45pm

shels4ever wrote: »

Cheltenham i'd say

Horse racing forum

and currently 3rd in their tipping challenge

Sunday
7 miles

Tuesday
5 miles and my first sub 6am run in some time

Brianderunner · 14-03-2012 11:51pm

Woddle wrote: »

Horse racing forum and currently 3rd in their tipping challenge

I should have done it, i'm kicking ass in my family one.

Got 5/1 on Simonsig today in paddys, they were doing as a special. Grand Crus set me back a bit though. Good old Qeuvega got me out of the hole on day one 4 years running now

Making my Cheltenham festival debut on Friday, can't wait.

Oscar Whiskey at 9/4 in Hills w/o BB has to be the bet tomorrow, Henderson is flying.

menoscemo · 14-03-2012 11:54pm

Brianderunner wrote: »

I should have done it, i'm kicking ass in my family one.

Got 5/1 on Simonsig today in paddys, they were doing as a special. Grand Crus set me back a bit though. Good old Qeuvega got me out of the hole on day one 4 years running now Making my Cheltenham festival debut on Friday, can't wait.

Oscar Whiskey at 9/4 in Hills w/o BB has to be the bet tomorrow, Henderson is flying.

Where has your log gone? I wanna hear about your blow up at Silverstone :pac: Me and Frank heard an expolsion up in Blackpool.

TheRoadRunner · 14-03-2012 11:57pm

menoscemo wrote: »

Where has your log gone? I wanna hear about your blow up at Silverstone :pac: Me and Frank heard an expolsion up in Blackpool.

Somebody probably just light a mach somewhere near your gob, the hot air that spouts out of there is surely combustible

Woddle · 14-03-2012 11:59pm

well despite being 3rd in the challenge I'm actually down. Hurricane fly killed me and Grand crus today.
Henderson is flying and that made me look at Solix twice but it's a no bet race for me. I did go with Sir des champs for the challenge though and I'll get involved with these

Woddle wrote: »

2.05 - Pineau de re and Sergent guibs

4.00 - Hectors choice and Niceonefrankie
4.40 - Midnight appeal

What else you liking tomorrow?

chinguetti · 15-03-2012 12:10am

My cat says Captain Chris. Oscar Whisky has to be backed tomorrow, BB will one of these days not come out of that flat spot about 3 out.

Yesterday was a brilliant day, today was dire.

Brianderunner · 15-03-2012 12:13am

Woddle wrote: »

well despite being 3rd in the challenge I'm actually down. Hurricane fly killed me and Grand crus today.
Henderson is flying and that made me look at Solix twice but it's a no bet race for me. I did go with Sir des champs for the challenge though and I'll get involved with these

What else you liking tomorrow?

Have been impressed with Riverside Theatre but it remains to be seen if he'll be effective in Cheltenham, flat track bully perhaps and didnt really fire in SE's arkle, i'll have a small bet on him, he's a few pounds clear of the field in my book.

I have Peddlers backed at 9/2 and wondering what the catch is, he was the arkle 2nd fav up till recently, has something gone amiss? In hindsight maybe they knew about Grand Crus and skipped the gold cup. For me Peddlers wins easy if he's "right"

Divers should go close in the 4:00, we've seen how important previous festival form has been so far this week.

4:40 is a total minefield i'd avoid it totally. Start me up ew in my tipster.

Woddle · 15-03-2012 12:22am

Brianderunner wrote: »

Have been impressed with Riverside Theatre but it remains to be seen if he'll be effective in Cheltenham, flat track bully perhaps and didnt really fire in SE's arkle, i'll have a small bet on him, he's a few pounds clear of the field in my book.

I have Peddlers backed at 9/2 and wondering what the catch is, he was the arkle 2nd fav up till recently, has something gone amiss? In hindsight maybe they knew about Grand Crus and skipped the gold cup. For me Peddlers wins easy if he's "right"

Divers should go close in the 4:00, we've seen how important previous festival form has been so far this week.

4:40 is a total minefield i'd avoid it totally. Start me up ew in my tipster.

Yeah the Ryanair is another no bet race for me, hard to call, I was leaning towards Medermit but then just moved on.
McCain bang in form, Peddlers could prove to be easy money but I won't be involved plus Emily has a school primary xc race tomorrow and I'm giving a dig out argh

Woddle · 15-03-2012 12:25am

chinguetti wrote: »

My cat says Captain Chris. Oscar Whisky has to be backed tomorrow, BB will one of these days not come out of that flat spot about 3 out.

Yesterday was a brilliant day, today was dire.

Don't think it'll be tomorrow though. BB all the way but too short for me and after Hurricane fly flopping I swore no more multiples

Woddle · 16-03-2012 8:00pm

Nulty wrote: »

Top five final positions

Position| Username| Profit/Loss| Bets
1| Jimbob| 43.86| 26
2| Braggy| 38.81| 20
3| tonic wine| 15.91| 26
4| Quixote1064| 14.10| 27
5| kksaints| 6.84| 24

Aww no, you did Bellvano eachway. Didn't realise that. An honourable second though. Well done Woddle

Now back to running

Woddle · 22-03-2012 10:52am

I havn't been feeling the love of late from my running, so I took a complete week off and happy to say that it's done the trick.
My first run back was the Bhaa xc race out in Malahide. I had no expectations but that didn't stop the anxiety kicking in.
I didn't do too much of a warm up and I think this worked in my favour, anyway race was off and it felt a bit strange racing under flood lights and the start was a bit of a mosh. I got into a good rhythm and hit the first km in 3:58 and followed that up with a 3:55. It started feeling a little bit tough here and I was 4:13 for the next. People started passing me on the hills with ease from here (I really am crap on hills) and one of them was a lady who I know is a sub 20 runner so I kept in touch with her. 4:25 for the 4th km and 4:18 for the 5th.
I probably lacked a bit of concentration as I thought we had another lap to do and I never really copped where the finish was despite running by it 3 times

and it was only when I got to one of the turns where you do a 180 that I saw people sprinting in another direction so I put the boot down and passed a couple of runners, one of who was the sub 20 lady. It was only about 50m of a sprint finish so I'd plenty left but just couldn't get AJ, I'll be sure to get him next time

I really enjoyed it and a lot of positives to take, the main one being that I havn't lost too much fitness despite a week off and a few shabby weeks before that.

Average pace was 4:10 per km (6:43 pace)
AHR 186, MHR 199 (and reckon with a longer sprint finish I can get this up higher)
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/160246570

RayCun · 22-03-2012 10:54am

a week off is no harm, let the body recover, get some mental sharpness back.

Not that I'll be taking any time off, you understand

shels4ever · 22-03-2012 12:22pm

when if your half mara?

"It's what you do next that counts"

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