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The M50 Barrier Free Tolling Thread

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    #1862
    kaiser sauze
    Registered Users Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭kaiser sauze


    greenpeter wrote: »
    Got a letter today to say i have seven days to pay 145euro or i will be going to court,

    Would a judge not laugh at this?

    I never received an warning just this letter today,
    I sold the vehicle during the summer

    When are you supposed to have used the toll bridge?

    When did they send you previous correspondence?

    Is previous correspondence alluded to in the letter?

    If you do not know the answer to either, you need to write to them and have them actually issue you an STR. Tell them you have received no previous warning.


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    #1863
    greenpeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭greenpeter


    Just checked think it was the new owner heading home after buying the vehicle

    If i ask for str and pay that will they clear the rest?


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    #1864
    kaiser sauze
    Registered Users Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭kaiser sauze


    greenpeter wrote: »
    Just checked think it was the new owner heading home after buying the vehicle

    If i ask for str and pay that will they clear the rest?

    In this case, return the letter to them and tell them that at the time of the passings you did not own the car.

    I'm sure you had signed over the car at this stage??

    You did not do the crossings, you have to pay zero.


  • Options
    #1865
    twogunkid
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭twogunkid


    Back on Track.
    Friday, January 15th, 2010

    Fresh from my day out in Dublin, I come renewed to take up the cudgel of the common man and reverse its orbit so that it hopefully strikes where it hurts on the bloated, bullying bodies of`the plutocratic governmental organizations.

    As you probably read in two of my previous blogs Hoping and Praying of 13 December 2009 and No Posts Today of 13 January 2010, I have a beef with somebody or more like it, they have a beef with me. I thought it was with that estimable company eFlow who collect tolls from motorists on the M50 motorway, but it seems that when their bullying does not produce results, they pass the can over to the Road Transport Authority (RTA) who are the real culprits in this matter. eFlow are not a bad old crowd, it just happens that having to withstand the goading and prodding of their masters, the RTA, they have turned into snarling feral beasts in order to maintain the various contracts they have with their lord and master.

    Anyway, now the RTA have full control of the dispute and I expect it to be scaled up to red alert status, they have set the dogs of war on my tail in the admirable form of Pierse & Fitzgibbon, Solicitors, of Main Street, Listowel, Co. Kerry. No doubt because one of their founding fathers was the son of a monkey. They of course bring to the table all the baggage Listowel justice personifies. In one paragraph they threatened with a Judgement against me in the High Court and worse, my name being published in that spanish inquisition of a newspaper, Stubbs Gazette. I do not know what prompted them with this double whammy but I presume it is because I am innocent of all charges. If they are nervous of getting the guilty verdict in the High Court, they have settled for a full broadside hoping something will stick.

    So in fear of my life and worried about how this fracas was affecting my wife’s health, who is frail enough at the best of times, I wrote back to the affiliates of the sons of monkeys in a very placatory fashion. In fact after the letter had been posted and having re-read the same to the Listowel Lambasters, I was regretful of its wheedling tone. I produce it here to show you how the relentless, persistent and overbearing nature of government agencies can weaken even the strongest resolve.

    Messrs Pierse & Fitzgibbon
    Market Street
    Listowel
    Co. Kerry

    Dear Sir/Madam,
    Toll Violation Notice No. U11-0836
    My Licence Plate

    Thank you for your kind missive of 12 January 2010 or should we refer to it as the TVN. Can I say from the outset that I am innocent. I paid my €3 on 20 October 2009. I have a bank statement to prove it.

    I note from your TVN that Messrs eFlow have washed their hands of this matter and passed the burden of their errors on to the National Roads Authority, who it seems are your clients.

    Having decided to take this TVN extremely seriously as you suggest, I would like to list chronologically the events and papers that I will bring to the High Court on whatever date you suggest. Copies of all the following will have been passed on to you by Messrs eFlow, so there will be no need for me to include them with this letter.
    1. eFlow UTN No 1 of 25 October 2009
    2. Record of my telephone call to eFlow call centre on 27 October 2009
    3. Copy of my e-mail through eFlow web message function on 27 October 2009.
    4. Bank of Ireland statement of 3 November 2009 listing €3 payment to eFlow.
    5. eFlow UTN No 2 of 3 November 2009
    6. My registered letter to eFlow of 12 November 2009.
    7. eFlow letter to me of 20 November 2009
    8. My letter to eFlow of 25 November 2009.
    9. eFlow letter to me of 1 December 2009 in which eFlow state that “We acknowledge that you made a payment”

    Might I also bring to your attention my blogging vehicle www.paulmalpas.com and in particular two blogs. The first published on 13 December 2009 and titled Hoping and Praying and the second published on 14 January 2010 and titled No Posts Today. Could I also remind you that the original charge was for €3 which I paid immediately and this rigmarole which we both find ourselves on is a ridiculous and unnecessary procedure, which should be stopped forthwith. Just as costs on your side must be building up to ridiculous proportions, mine also on your receipt of this letter will have amounted to €350. Let us stop this nonsense and call it a day and go for eFlow who seem to have a litany of undeclared assets that they are not being passed on to our esteemed National Roads Authority, notably my €3. If Mr Lenihan knew the reason he cannot balance his books is because of eFlow’s non-performance, he would definitely be on the warpath. Please keep in mind the original €3.

    Notwithstanding all of the above and I know that in this third world, totalitarian, police state in which we live, my pleas of innocence will go unheeded and the mantra of the Fianna Fail party of ” Bang the Buggers up” will prevail. I ask you to make my journey through the penitential system as easy as possible. I am a pensioner. I have not worked for five years and my wife is of a similar age and situation, having worn herself out looking after our large family of six children for this last 37 years. Castlerea would be my slammer of choice as it is suitably situated for all my friends in Boyle to visit.

    In the meantime I look forward to my day in court with you, my faceless and nameless adversary. Does it not fill your time with joy after all your years studying jurisprudence and tort, to be stuck behind some computer screen chasing shadows. Get out now and get out quickly before you become a moron or am I too late.

    Your obedient and hopefully loyal citizen,

    Paul Malpas

    P.s. It was a nice try threatening me with Mr Stubbs’s rag, but he is a cousin of mine and he would never have a bad word said against me.

    By the way and if it has not been said time and again, my original charge for going through the toll was €3 which I paid immediately. It is now €152 and rising. Is there any legal brain out there who can tell me, because of my innocence in this matter, how I can force on these people my costs, which run to €350 at the moment. It does seem to me that unless I employ some bigwig whose fees and resultant costs will be extortionate, I cannot reclaim my costs for fighting this libellous slur on my good name. The whole shebang adds full credence to Shakespeare’s line in Lear of “madmen leading the blind”.

    I will keep you informed as to my future progress in this ruction as I cannot be the only one eFlow, the RTA, Fianna Fail and Pierse & Fitzgibbon have lined up. The harrowing detail of my crucifixion might just help someone in a moment of weakness when they are considering paying twice to drive between Blanchardstown and Collinstown


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    #1866
    kbell
    Registered Users Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭kbell


    Went through on wed 29th Dec southbound and then headed home northbound within 3 hrs.
    Forgot to pay by 8pm next day, the late payment letter arrived today but its only for the northbound journey ??
    Did they miss me on the way down?, I'd have assumed that both or all trips within a midnight -> midnight period would have been included on the same notice?


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    #1867
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Give them a chance.


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    #1868
    kaiser sauze
    Registered Users Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭kaiser sauze


    Haddockman wrote: »
    Give them a chance.

    ...the systems are busy printing all the STRs! :D


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    #1869
    Achidna
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Achidna


    How in the name of god is it considered acceptable to ask users to input what they think they owe.

    The system recognises the registration (hence the charges) and yet we are not told what our balance is. This is the most blatant and shameful attempt to screw people out of money...

    ..if it is not - then why is such a ridiculous system in place?????:mad::mad::mad:


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    #1870
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    To make loads of money.


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    #1871
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Achidna wrote: »
    How in the name of god is it considered acceptable to ask users to input what they think they owe.

    The system recognises the registration (hence the charges) and yet we are not told what our balance is. This is the most blatant and shameful attempt to screw people out of money...

    ..if it is not - then why is such a ridiculous system in place?????:mad::mad::mad:

    I don't think that is the case.

    There is date protection law that would stop them letting you enter any reg and give journey history. Could easily be used for house theft to find commuters.

    However, one thing does frustrate me about this system as it is at present.

    The 24 hour payment rule, why not 48 or 72? Seems to be just to encourage people to sign up.

    They can't do payment history for reg's as ownership could change at anytime too.


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    #1872
    prististanice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12 ✭prististanice


    Originally, as far as I know, you could input your licence plate number on the website and it would tell you all the tolls against your registration plate...I think you could also dispute journeys if you thought you didn't make them. The reason that this facility is no longer there, is not because it is an attempt to trick customers into paying more but because of customers themselves. People began complaining to the Data Protection Commissioner (and rightly so) that it was a breach of their privacy. Imagine, I look at my neighbour's registration number and type it into the website to track his movements! You can actually read the Data Protection Commissioner's comments about the matter in his Annual Reports on his website. The most important principle, it would seem, is that people be allowed anonymous travel on the M50. Therefore, as long as you pay by 20.00 the following evening, the company doesn't need to access the NVDF to find details about your registration or send you any penalty notices.

    Also, I suppose that ultimately, you are the person driving the car so why wouldn't you know how many times you've passed?


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    #1873
    TheZ
    Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭TheZ


    The penalties for not paying the toll are not displayed on the M50 (or any other toll road I don't believe) as required under the relevant regulations.

    I would be interested to see what a court would say to somebody who pays the original toll (albeit late). My view is that the penalties are not enforceable as they are not displayed as required.


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    #1874
    prististanice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12 ✭prististanice


    Hmmm...I suppose that could be argued but that's not how I read the Bye-Laws.

    Regulation 13. Tolls - Publicly Available

    13.1 A list of the Applicable Tolls for an Unregistered Vehicle authorised by these Bye-Laws shall at all times be exhibited in a conspicuous place at or near the Toll Location on the Toll Road.

    13.2 The Applicable Tolls applying at the Effective Date shall be made publicly available no later than seven (7) days prior to the Effective Date.

    However, "Applicable Toll" means "at any time and in respect of each User/Vehicle Class, the toll determined by the Authority (inclusive of indexation, value added tax and rounding) to be chargeable in respect of such User/Vehicle Class provided that such Applicable Toll shall not exceed the Maximum Toll applicable to such User/Vehicle Class at such time."

    "Maximum Toll" means, in respect of each User/Vehicle Class, the amount determined in accordance with Regulation 15.

    And Regulation 15 basically talks about how to adjust the toll based on the Consumer Price Index.

    Therefore, "Applicable Toll" just means the first toll charge - i.e. the €3.00 toll for a car.

    The penalties are called, respectively:

    Initial Default Toll;
    Additional Default Toll; and
    Final Default Toll

    Regulation 19.1 states that if the Applicable Toll isn't paid by the "Cut-Off Time" then each Accountable Person is liable to pay the Initial Default Toll. And the rest of the Regulation goes on to say that if the Initial Default Toll isn't paid then the Additional Default Toll can be charged and if that's not paid then the Final Default Toll can be charged.

    However, it doesn't mention anything about the need to place the Initial Default Toll, Additional Default Toll or Final Default Toll "in a conspicuous place". Therefore, from what I read, it seems that only the first toll needs to be displayed on the road.

    But I could be wrong!


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    #1875
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    TheZ wrote: »
    The penalties for not paying the toll are not displayed on the M50 (or any other toll road I don't believe) as required under the relevant regulations.

    I would be interested to see what a court would say to somebody who pays the original toll (albeit late). My view is that the penalties are not enforceable as they are not displayed as required.

    Penalties are posted to the address the car is registered, same place the car tax forms are sent with your pin or speeding fines etc... so I'd say they do hold up.


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    #1876
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    I dont know what theyre playing at , I have a video account and every month its the same f*ckin thing

    Use tollbridge 2-4 times
    they try to take payment on the 25th or 26th of the month (2-3 days before i get paid)
    payment declines
    they dont try and take it again and dont tell me its declined and instead just go and move me to 'unregistered'
    i get letters for the tolls
    I call them up and they redo my account and remove the fines , then tell me again that they cant take payment on the 1st or 2nd of the month
    repeat.

    they since have however gone and stopped removing the fines for me so ive built up a nice rapore with P&FG in which I keep trying to pay the original amounts but they wont accept , I expect a day in court some time soon but f*ck them


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    #1877
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    I expect a day in court some time soon but f*ck them

    4 trips x 2.50. You could just leave €10 in the account and not worry about it.


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    #1878
    prististanice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12 ✭prististanice


    If a payment fails, they'll try again 7 days later. If it fails again, that's when the account goes into suspension. On both failures an e-mail is sent. After the second failure and, therefore, the second e-mail, they send an "account suspension" letter. As far as I know, if you ring them within a reasonable amount of time, they'll transfer everything for you to the account. But, if you don't ring them, they can't know to reactivate your account and journeys can progress over to the those solicitors...


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    #1879
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    got a draft of a letter to apply to the courts to try reclaim money from me off P&FG today , have to get my letter typing skills on now . Eflow keep telling me their system cannot take payment at the start of a month and they just keep cancelling my account. I actually cannot use eflows system without being fined for tolls , Im just going to offer them the original amount (minus the fines) and see what theyll do again...


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    #1880
    aidanxc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭aidanxc


    basherzz wrote: »
    You have paid and you have the proof. Get straight onto the NRA info@nra.ie. Once it goes to those apes in Listowel, eflow just won't deal with you. I've just lost a 4 month battle with the gangster solicitors. The NRA own eflow so start on at them as fast as you can.

    I ran up some unpaid tolls on eFlow and am now in a pickle. Wasn't aware of the system and just let it slip - I only used it a few times (< 10 times I'd say) but the fine has escalated now to over a thousand. I was summoned to court and went (Feb or march 2010) in the hope of sorting it out. The case was cancelled but I spoke to the Pierse & Fitzgibbon person who said they would be in touch. They weren't (though they claim to have left me a voicemail in March 2010). I didn't hear anything from them for 15 months and now today, out of the blue, they say they are going to set the sheriff on me. Does anybody have any experience of resolving something like this without paying that extortionate fine??


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    #1881
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    aidanxc wrote: »
    I ran up some unpaid tolls on eFlow and am now in a pickle. Wasn't aware of the system and just let it slip - I only used it a few times (< 10 times I'd say) but the fine has escalated now to over a thousand. I was summoned to court and went (Feb or march 2010) in the hope of sorting it out. The case was cancelled but I spoke to the Pierse & Fitzgibbon person who said they would be in touch. They weren't (though they claim to have left me a voicemail in March 2010). I didn't hear anything from them for 15 months and now today, out of the blue, they say they are going to set the sheriff on me. Does anybody have any experience of resolving something like this without paying that extortionate fine??

    if the case was cancelled theyd have to re-issue you a summons to go to court again to do anything , when they said theyd send the sheriff in , theyll have to go to court again and seek a judgement. ask them for a statement of the tolls you owe them and the dates then call eflow and try to reason with them to see can you get away with paying a reduced fine, if you contacted them earlier or before you got to court youd be in a better position


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    #1882
    eFlow: Una
    Closed Accounts Posts: 97 ✭✭eFlow: Una


    Hello all,


    If you have queries regarding penalties, please give our customer service team a call on 1890 50 10 50 – open between 7am and 11pm seven days a week. Our advisors can view the history of the vehicle/account, or they can transfer you to Pierse & Fitzgibbon if needs be.


    If you have a registered account yet you are still receiving penalty notices, it’s essential you call us so that we can identify the issue and work with you to resolve it. It could be due to a failed automated payment – e.g. because of a change of bank/card details.



    Hope this helps for now… J


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    #1883
    huddie
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭huddie


    How do I check how many times I went through the toll?

    Sorry if this has been asked and answered. I couldn't find it.


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    #1884
    eFlow: Una
    Closed Accounts Posts: 97 ✭✭eFlow: Una


    Hi Huddie,

    No problem at all. :)

    If you do not have a registered account, you would need to contact us and we can check your vehicle licence plate number. We can do so here via private message if you like.

    If you have a registered account, you can view your toll passages online. There is a registered account option for infrequent users, which has no administrative fee and reduces the cost of the toll by 50 cent, and eliminates penalties/deadlines as payment is taken automatically the month after.


    We have a dedicated forum here on Boards.ie too if you have any future queries (just see my signature!)

    All the best,
    Una


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    #1885
    huddie
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭huddie


    Thanks Una. I set a video account


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    #1886
    BaZmO*
    Registered Users Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    Can someone from eflow answer a question for me please?

    Every time I try to log into my account it won't recognise my password so I have to reset it each time, which is a pain.

    Is there something I'm doing wrong?

    This is the login page https://csc.eflow.ie/myaccount/login.aspx

    Am I using the wrong User ID? I use my account number


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    #1887
    eFlow: Ciaran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭eFlow: Ciaran


    Hi Bazmo,


    When you log onto eFlow first you web enable your account be setting up your user ID and password. So your user ID is something you make up yourself and not the account number. You enter the user ID and password to the page you have linked to.


    If you would like to forward me or any of the eFlow reps your account number, the name and address of the account holder and state that you are the account holder. Then I can retieve your user ID for you and help you reset your password if you need to.

    We have a dedicated forum here on Boards.ie too if you have any future queries.

    All the best,
    Ciaran .


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    #1888
    BaZmO*
    Registered Users Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    Thanks Ciaran. Bit of a blonde moment from me. :o

    I just ran off a few possible usernames I may of used at the time and one of them worked, so I'm all sorted now. I had used a couple already but they didn't work so I just thought it was something else.

    Thanks again for your help.


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    #1889
    eFlow: Ciaran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭eFlow: Ciaran


    Hi Bazmo

    Glad to hear you got it sorted.

    If you are ever having a problem accessing your account online give us a call on 1890-50-10-50, or feel free to post up on our talk to forum on boards.

    All the best,
    Ciaran


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    #1890
    cmcqq
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭cmcqq


    Today i received a phone call from eflow solicitors (John) and proceeded to tell me that eflow have been trying to collect video payment which is €30 at a time. I dont use M50 often but have used it aprox 7 times in a year. He told me that i owed eflow €18 aprox and my visa card is not in use for some reason, and then i got the bolw that i never expected that i have incurred a hefty penalty of €2095 for these 7 unpaid trips!!!!! I nearly hit the floor!!!
    I explained to John that i was an Adoptee and only last year i found my birth parents married to each other with a full family and since i lost my business early last year i spent most of the year away visiting my Birth Mum & Dad & siblings for the first time, they dont live in Ireland and while i was away i lost my Visa card which wasnt out of date, i cancelled it and had a new one now. The last ting on my mind was eflow. Having been self employed and now unemployed im entitled to NOTHING from the state and i was forced to let my home in Dublin and move to my girlfriends home in Carlow with our baby.
    I explained that this was an honest oversight on my behalf of not remembering to call eflow and give my new card number. At the moment in living out of my girlfriends pocket and feel like a sponge to be honest.
    I called eflow and paid the outstanding balance on my oversight and then called the solicitors office in Kerry and spoke to a girl in the office regarding this crazy penalty and she said that they wrote to me. I didnt get any of the post as it was obviously going to my house that i have rented and tenants dont have a forwarding address for me. This is a genuine oversight and finding it very hard to get by only on my girlfriends wage and a baby to take care of. She said she would reduce it to €630.. I cant pay a cent of it and im reluctant to tell my girlfriend about it in fear of her throwing in the towel and asking me to leave. She is under a great deal of strain to keep our family together without this to hang over us.. The girl in the solicitors just said there is nothing she can do!!!

    Where is the justice or justification in this Genuine Oversigth

    Any Ideas im worried sick about this...


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    #1891
    browner85
    Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭browner85


    its a joke im currently paying back 3 k on a monthly basis . i do not no how they justify 150 € per trip


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