Sexism you deal with in everyday life? Mod Note in first post. Please read

Roadtrippin · 04-02-2013 10:41pm #1

eviltwin wrote: »

Its also interesting to hear of some of the crap women have to put up with and just accept and don't even mention because its considered normal and just something you have to put up with if your female.

As a spin off from another thread I thought a good idea for a thread could be every day sexism that women encounter and often just have to put up with.
I know we mostly live in times where gender equality seems to be the norm on the surface, but in reality women still face a lot of situations where they have to deal with sexist comments at work or similar IMO. Some of you may still remember examples like the PWC email scandal where male employees had decided it was appropriate to create and share an email list of female employees ranked by attractiveness... http://www.thejournal.ie/pwc-partner-deeply-regrets-hot-mail-scandal-45719-Nov2010/
Anyone have any other stories or examples of sexist behaviour they had to deal with, e.g. at the work place or in everyday life in general? Feel free to vent

*** MOD Note *** The clue is in the title of this forum. It is the Ladies Lounge and in this thread it is the Ladies opinion that is sought. It is NOT a thread where women have to defend their experiences We've had pretty much enough of passersbys coming into this thread posting the usual "what about men..../this isn't serious sexism" etc and it stops now. There have been enough warnings in this thread so far. Next passerby, innocent of the rules and ethos of this forum or not, who derails this thread in the Ladies Lounge will be banned from posting here. Thank you

lazygal · 04-02-2013 10:54pm

I was told by my male supervisor before I went on maternity leave that I'd be coming back from maternity leave pregnant again because that's how women play the system. I also heard on the grapevine another male colleague said after I came back after getting married that I'd be having children and out all the time so I'd be no use to his team.
When I was a teenager and started going out on the town a man at least ten years older than me shouted he'd shove a vodka bottle up my skirt to see if I was wearing knickers.

clairefontaine · 04-02-2013 11:01pm

I completed a taught MA when I was 23. I had noticed that the main lecturer was not interested in anything the women had to say. Never asked them their opinion, never called on them, never looked at them. If one spoke, he would interrupt look away and then talk to one of the men. This went on for a year. It made everyone feel invisible and even some of the men were self concious because it was so noticeable.

And it's not something that's easy to call someone on, unless you install a video camera and have footage to show them, and no one is going to do that in a small seminar room.

The lecturer was old school snob. He was simply scared of girls. That's what it came down to. And if it were now, I'd have a field day with it.

Roadtrippin · 04-02-2013 11:04pm

lazygal wrote: »

I was told by my male supervisor before I went on maternity leave that I'd be coming back from maternity leave pregnant again because that's how women play the system. I also heard on the grapevine another male colleague said after I came back after getting married that I'd be having children and out all the time so I'd be no use to his team.

Those kind of comments really annoy me and they are so common! I remember a male colleague venting about our supervisor being pregnant again and that she was doing this 'on purpose' and never had to do a lot of work because of it... He laughed when he said it and was surprised when I didn't find his comment funny.

jaffacakesyum · 04-02-2013 11:09pm

A lot of the more serious stuff sprang to mind first but I'm not sure if you'd call it sexism? Things like getting shouted at, wolf whistled etc. in the street, getting harassed/followed, getting groped in bars etc. Not sure if you'd call that sexism or being chauvinistic I don't know...

Some of the more common sexism I encounter in my social circles would be that I know nothing about sport because I'm a woman or the usual being a terrible driver, should be in the kitchen etc.

Wibbs · 04-02-2013 11:13pm

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

A lot of the more serious stuff sprang to mind first but I'm not sure if you'd call it sexism? Things like getting shouted at, wolf whistled etc. in the street, getting harassed/followed, getting groped in bars etc. Not sure if you'd call that sexism or being chauvinistic I don't know...

Eh yea J that's sexism. No doubt involved. Getting harrassed because you're a woman? ehh yea. The fact you're not quite sure about the label you might attach to it is another way this guff become the background noise as noted in the other thread.

Some of the more common sexism I encounter in my social circles would be that I know nothing about sport because I'm a woman or the usual being a terrible driver, should be in the kitchen etc.

Beyond sexism that's just bloody rude and being a dick.

jaffacakesyum · 04-02-2013 11:16pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Eh yea J that's sexism. No doubt involved. Getting harrassed because you're a woman? ehh yea. The fact you're not quite sure about the label you might attach to it is another way this guff become the background noise as noted in the other thread.

Beyond sexism that's just bloody rude and being a dick.

What I meant was that, if these types of men were homosexual, they'd be doing the same thing to other men not women so I wasn't sure whether to call it sexism or give it another word!!

Yeah the former serious stuff definitely gets to me, as someone who has been through sexual abuse but the latter is just background noise as was mentioned in the other thread. Ya just learn to ignore it.

bigbudda · 04-02-2013 11:20pm

Just a small thing but being called "good girl" from clients.... can't stand it

Roadtrippin · 04-02-2013 11:21pm

clairefontaine wrote: »

The lecturer was old school snob. He was simply scared of girls. That's what it came down to. And if it were now, I'd have a field day with it.

There are still plenty of those old school snobs in academia. I'm convinced that's part of why there is still a relatively low percentage of female professors at third-level because it's a bit of a boy's club, particularly in some disciplines...

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

A lot of the more serious stuff sprang to mind first but I'm not sure if you'd call it sexism? Things like getting shouted at, wolf whistled etc. in the street, getting harassed/followed, getting groped in bars etc. Not sure if you'd call that sexism or being chauvinistic I don't know...

The more serious stuff I would call harassment really but based on sexist or chauvinistic attitudes. I know at least two of my friends that had issues with sexual harassment at work. The only way those problems resolved for them was by them leaving the job... In one case HR failed miserably dealing with it when my friend reported the guy after over a year of dealing with his behaviour: the guy still works in the company my friend had to leave to this day probably doing the same thing to other women! :mad:

La_Gordy · 04-02-2013 11:29pm

I think you'll find this twitter page relevant and familiar -

https://twitter.com/EverydaySexism

rainbow kirby · 04-02-2013 11:38pm

There were a lot of reasons why I left my old job, but one of them was because my team lead was a sexist asshole (also hated all non-Russian speakers but that's another matter). In meetings he would always cut across women and never let them get a word in edgeways, and made very openly sexist comments - one example was that he said to me and another woman during a meeting "Oh, if these bugs are too complicated for you two to figure out, we'll just hand them off to the men", as if genitalia determined ability to do our job. I also suspect that he put me at the desk beside him because I'm rather busty...

Das Kitty · 04-02-2013 11:39pm

My 'favourite' is when you go to a mechanic about your car and they talk to you like you're two. Or if you happen to have a guy with you, the responses are addressed to him. My husband has no interest in cars, so I'd be the one in charge of maintenance. Last time it happened he just looked at the mechanic and said, "Don't know why you're talking to me, I haven't a clue what you're talking about. Talk to her." We have a mechanic now that I'm very happy with thank feck.

It's been happening too at work with construction guys we're trying to liaise with on data cabling. One of the women will say something and the answer will either be directed at the guy standing next to her, or her boobs.

Lovely!

IzzyWizzy · 04-02-2013 11:41pm

clairefontaine wrote: »

I completed a taught MA when I was 23. I had noticed that the main lecturer was not interested in anything the women had to say. Never asked them their opinion, never called on them, never looked at them. If one spoke, he would interrupt look away and then talk to one of the men. This went on for a year. It made everyone feel invisible and even some of the men were self concious because it was so noticeable.

And it's not something that's easy to call someone on, unless you install a video camera and have footage to show them, and no one is going to do that in a small seminar room.

The lecturer was old school snob. He was simply scared of girls. That's what it came down to. And if it were now, I'd have a field day with it.

Same here. Not just at university though. Even now, if I'm at a work meeting or conference, any points I make are often ignored or dismissed. I'm always blown away by the blatant sexism I constantly seem to encounter. I remember one lecture, during my MA course, when we had to work in groups to solve a difficult puzzle. I got it very quickly and one of the guys in the group actually said, 'ah so you're not just a pretty face!' :eek: Would anyone ever make a comment like that to a man?

Had to put a horrible colleague in his place last year as well. We were at a training day, learning how to become IELTS examiners (it's a TEFL thing) and mark written work. He was told to work with me to mark an exam paper and was very obviously looking down on me and making comments implying that I wasn't up to the task. I eventually asked him what his problem was and why he seemed to think I was so uneducated. He said, 'oh, it's nothing personal, it's just I went to a grammar school and I've got a degree so I'm probably a bit better qualified to do this.' He shut up pretty quickly when I informed him that I'd also gone to grammar school, got a good degree, a Master's with Distinction and had been employed at one of the European institutions as a proofreader. He later told me that I don't look intelligent because I look very young, wear make-up and dress in a 'trendy' way.

I really do feel like I'm looked down on and not taken seriously as a young woman. I notice how much more people respect my boyfriend purely because he's a man. Our internet broke the other day and the guy who came round to fix it ignored me and kept talking to my boyfriend, even though he hasn't a clue and I deal with that stuff. A lot of the time, I am made to feel like I should just sit there, look pretty and know my place.

Wibbs · 04-02-2013 11:44pm

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

What I meant was that, if these types of men were homosexual, they'd be doing the same thing to other men not women so I wasn't sure whether to call it sexism or give it another word!!

"Knobheads" covers it nicely I reckon J. Doesn't really matter if the guys were gay aiming it at other gay guys, it would be still taking the piss. When it's aimed at another gender then it's pretty clear sexism IMH.

Whispered · 05-02-2013 12:22am

Walking through my town, lost in my thoughts, an old man passing me stepped in front of me and roared "IT WOULDN'T KILL YOU TO SMILE" then walked away.

He wouldn't have done it if I was a man. I'm almost sure of it.

05-02-2013 12:40am

The mechanic who serviced my car told me I'd look better in a smaller car. I'm still trying to figure out if that means what it seems to mean, and why he thinks it so.

A colleague insists on stepping out into the road and halting traffic so I can reverse out unhindered from my parking space, something he never does for any one else. He thinks he's being helpful and would be quite insulted if I called him patronizing, and I've no doubt I'd be indignantly called ungrateful to my superiors in my absence.

I've had male colleagues confide personal problems in me, assuming that because I'm female I'm interested/empathetic/insightful about emotional issues. I feel burdened by this role thrust upon me.

My boss, whom I'm very fond of and enjoy a warm friendship with, has called me 'pet' in front of others. He has never referred to his male friends/co-workers in comparable terms. I'm not his pet. I took it in the affectionate spirit in which it was intended, but still it undermines me as an adult and major contributor to the project we were working on. He wouldn't see the problem.

Tigger99 · 05-02-2013 12:49am

All the fcuking time. Mostly I let it roll off my back but really, it gets to me.

I gave a big presentation on a project I managed to the boss of the company and it was well received.

I recounted it to my senior manager afterwards when he asked how it went. He said ah but are you sure it was the presentation he was looking at. I just thought great, I used to have respect for you but you are just a dick.

Thats one of dozens of examples. A pair of breasts and many men automatically think I'm stupid.

Da Shins Kelly · 05-02-2013 1:20am

I've experienced the shouting and groping and other unwanted attention that seems to happen mostly in pubs or bars. I've learned to ignore it, although I must admit that on a couple of occasions I've lost my temper with people who do stuff like that.

I also had a lecturer here in Spain who said openly in one of his classes that women should cover themselves up and learn to behave themselves more "appropriately", and if they get attacked then it's pretty much their own fault for not being more modest. :eek: I confronted him about it after the class and told him that that is really dangerous stuff to be spewing in a classroom setting, but he refused to accept that there was anything wrong with what he said and practically turned his back on me mid-conversation and walked out of the classroom. I never went back to that class.

Scarinae · 05-02-2013 1:26am

I am the assistant editor of a magazine that focuses on a specific industry that is known for being very conservative and male-dominated. My editor is a year older than me and also female. A freelancer that used to write the occasional article for the magazine made a remark in an email about how the magazine was being run by ‘a pair of schoolgirls’... We haven’t commissioned any articles from him since, funnily enough.

Both of us have had to fend off unwanted attention from men while doing the job, often men who are a lot older... Sometimes it can be very mild, such as a contributor who emailed to say he’d received the copy of the magazine I’d sent him and added “I didn’t realise you were so good looking

”, or much more blatant such as the editor of a rival magazine who invited me to come home with him one night even though he knows full well I have a boyfriend. My editor was pursued for a while by a rather sleazy freelancer who kept trying to invite her for drinks or to dinner, even though she repeatedly told him she’s engaged.

The editor of another magazine in our publishing group thinks this is hilarious, and doesn’t understand why it annoys us both. He can't see why we don’t use being female to our advantage, to get better stories from people and negotiate better rates with the freelancers. For example, he suggested that my editor go for dinner with the sleazy freelancer and then pay him a lower rate for an article... Yeah, because that is a surefire way to get respect in the industry.

There is a networking group for women in the industry, and I’ve heard various men pooh pooh this and say it is sexism because they’d never get away with having functions just for men in the industry... Completely ignoring the fact that a) men aren’t excluded from the women’s group, they just are not the target audience, and b) the industry is between 75-95% male, depending what country you are in, so they’re not exactly under-represented.

This is one that really bugged me though... A girl that works in subscriptions was helping on the stand at a conference back in December, and was rather unnerved by the creepy attention she was getting from various delegates. I heard a few of my colleagues discussing it and one said he didn't understand why she was so surprised and annoyed by it, that she was asking for it the way she was dressed

I mean, what? She is a very pretty girl and takes care of herself, but it’s not as if she turned up to the conference in nipple tassels and hotpants, she was wearing a very smart suit with a skirt (as many women do at conferences)

LittleBook · 05-02-2013 10:28am

An odd but insidious kind of sexist intimidation I've come across a lot is with beggars.

It's not so much here in Dublin (where beggars are pretty passive and just sit there) but in France (and some other countries) where they are much more in your face. Time and time again I've been approaching a beggar on a street and watch as they completely ignore the men but when a woman approaches the hand is out the begging spiel starts, they get right up in the woman's face. They'd never dare to do that to a man.

I learned not to get sucked in would just say "no" in a loud voice, hold my head up and keep walking without breaking my stride, but it was very hard at the beginning to keep going.

For this reason (and other reasons not relevant to this topic) I never give money to street beggars.

vitani · 05-02-2013 10:35am

It was funny to hear the men in work yesterday talk about the rugby. They all just presumed that each other had watched the match, but when one of them asked me if I'd seen it, his tone completely changed, as if it would have been unusual for a woman to watch sport.

In general, I don't have to deal with much sexism on a day-to-day basis. But I was a bit taken aback to be called a 'cheap date' when I mentioned to someone recently that I didn't drink much. It just brings to mind a horrible image of a guy trying to get a woman drunk.

eviltwin · 05-02-2013 10:38am

I've had a few calls from a particular company this month looking for us to upgrade our service, even though both of us are on the bill - and my name is the first one - they still always insist on asking for my husband

Janey_Mac · 05-02-2013 10:40am

Whispered wrote: »

Walking through my town, lost in my thoughts, an old man passing me stepped in front of me and roared "IT WOULDN'T KILL YOU TO SMILE" then walked away.

He wouldn't have done it if I was a man. I'm almost sure of it.

I'm definitely sure of it. Some randomer told me to smile as I walked home from work recently, not the first time it's happened though it's not frequent, and when I got home I asked my boyfriend if he had ever had it happen to him. Not only had it never happened to him, he had no idea that it was something that happened to women.

username123 · 05-02-2013 11:04am

I spent more than a decade as the only women in an all male office, so yes, I have experienced plenty of casual sexism. One of the older men would always ask women who came to his desk if they wanted to sit on his knee. There would be times when the men would descend into a kind of back slappery joke together that was sexist and one or two of them would then come to me and mumble 'sorry about that, dont mind us'. There was one staff member there in my last few years who would often patronise me about women and their attitudes to having children and that I was just being silly to say I wasnt having any - we were the same age, he would speak to me as though I was a child.

I had previously worked in a supermarket where some of the men on the butchers counter thought nothing of asking teenage female staff sexually explicit questions. Actually there was more vulgar sexism in that job overall

I was chased across the supermarket car park one night leaving work by a young lad who opened his trousers and displayed himself while staggering after me to the general hilarity of his friends and when I complained in the job the next day I was told by a male manager that 'he must have fancied me' and 'thatll save me picking up a fella this weekend'.

I can be quite assertive so I dont usually experience much sexism from mechanics, tradesmen etc...

Perhaps the most stunning display of casual sexism I ever received was at the hands of the elderly male family GP when at age 17 I was taken there by my mother because of bad period pain. He told me, Id be grand once Id "popped out" a few kids and that he wouldnt do anything because the pill was only for married women. The following year I collapsed in a corridor in university from period pain and the college doctor prescribed the pill immediately. Its more than 30 years later and I still havent "popped out" any children, nor do I intend to.

fundlebundle · 05-02-2013 11:16am

Janey_Mac wrote: »

I'm definitely sure of it. Some randomer told me to smile as I walked home from work recently, not the first time it's happened though it's not frequent, and when I got home I asked my boyfriend if he had ever had it happen to him. Not only had it never happened to him, he had no idea that it was something that happened to women.

Not trying to add in whataboutery as i understand this is sexism from a female perspective but this has happened to me a few times in the past. It's really annoying too. Like you should have to justify your mood to complete strangers.

SarahBeep! · 05-02-2013 11:17am

male customers looking down my top/at my chest. Do they think a creep comes free with every purchase?!

05-02-2013 11:20am

bigbudda wrote: »

Just a small thing but being called "good girl" from clients.... can't stand it

Candie wrote: »

My boss, whom I'm very fond of and enjoy a warm friendship with, has called me 'pet' in front of others. He has never referred to his male friends/co-workers in comparable terms. I'm not his pet. I took it in the affectionate spirit in which it was intended, but still it undermines me as an adult and major contributor to the project we were working on. He wouldn't see the problem.

The worst sexism for me to deal with is the well-meaning type. If you call someone out on it you look like you're being unreasonable/uptight, and like you're accusing the person who did it of being some horrible person. We've all grown up in a society with sexism, no one is immune to it. I'm sure I've said sexist things in the past, and that I'll say some sexist things in the future, but if everyone's afraid to call people out on it we'll never get anywhere. I get "good girl" from many of my customers, especially the elderly ones, and as much as I'd like things to change, I'd never dare to tell them that I really feel knocked down every time they say it.

Janey_Mac wrote: »

Some randomer told me to smile as I walked home from work recently, not the first time it's happened though it's not frequent, and when I got home I asked my boyfriend if he had ever had it happen to him. Not only had it never happened to him, he had no idea that it was something that happened to women.

A good few times when waiting on public transport I've gotten "smile, sure it might never happen! *wink*". So I'm sitting on a cold train platform for 10 minutes, lost in my thoughts, and I'm still supposed to be smiling at everyone that walks by?

One very noticeable thing where I work is that I often have to call my manager. Someone (male or female) will ask me a question, and I'll tell them the answer. They'll say "are you sure?". I'll say yes, definitely. Very often I'm asked "is there no one you could check with?". I say, sure, I can go and ask the manager. I tell the manager the question and the answer I've given. I'm told that yes that's the answer. I go back to the customer, tell them the manager says yes. Suddenly the answer becomes 10x more believable. I used to think it was because of my age but over time it's become extremely apparent that men I work with don't get the same treatment, regardless of age. I'm 100% sure that the whole checking-with-the-manager thing only works because they assume the person I ask in the back room is a man.

Most notably, while my manager is clearly some sort of great all powerful Oz when in the back room, when she's out in the shop people ask her the same thing. "Is there no manager I can speak to?". I swear to god, half the time people don't believe her when she says the manager is herself. Sometimes they ask if there's anyone above her they can speak to. It's not because they're genuinely looking for someone higher up. It's because they want to speak to a mature man, and they assume that there must be one above us.

Das Kitty · 05-02-2013 12:01pm

I just spent breakfast getting schooled on how people need to look at the entire context when they deem some remark to be sexist. :rolleyes:

I just told him that he didn't get to decide what other people are offended by or find sexist. If someone tells him they find something he says to them sexist or offensive, he should apologise and not say it again rather than arguing about his intent.

I like where I work, because it was me on a table full of guys, and every other guy backed me up.

IzzyWizzy · 05-02-2013 12:14pm

Had a one-to-one lesson with a Spanish guy this morning. We started talking about things to do in this city, he brought up the sculpture museum down the road and I said I wasn't really that into sculpture. He immediately said, 'So what do you like doing, going shopping? I bet you like going shopping. Hahahaha.' I just looked at him blankly and said 'no, I prefer other types of museums like science, natural history and modern art, I like seeing Spanish films at the cinema and reading in the park.'

Seriously, like? I know he wasn't trying to be rude, but just because I'm not into sculpture, I must be some silly bimbo with no appreciation of anything cultural? There's nothing wrong with liking shopping, it was the way he said it, as if anything else would be too much of a challenge for me. Would he have said that to a man?

daenerysstormborn3 · 05-02-2013 12:16pm

I deal with "sexism" a lot because I drive a bike. The reason I say "sexism" is because I'm not sure if it's sexism or just men thinking they're the only ones who can drive bikes. It's always assumed that I'm riding pillion or that I only drive my bike on dry days or that I should be excluded from conversations about bikes because I probably don't know much about them. For example, in the local bike shop, I'll arrive out and while everyone is sitting around drinking tea, all the "big men" will start having various conversations about bike related topics of conversation and I just get ignored in the corner... until I pipe up and most of them look at me like I'm an alien from space. The lads that work in the bike shop know me well by now and get a laugh out of this carry on. It does annoy me though.

On the other hand though, you have my boss, a woman who regularly speaks about her husband in a really demeaning way in front of staff. I work in a solicitor's office and the two principals are a husband and wife. The husband does all conveyancing and probate work and the wife, my boss, does all litigation work. The wife regularly makes these comments in front of staff "well it's the litigation that keeps this office running, husband doesn't really bring in much money" and "well, husband is a man, you can't expect him to know this/do that/remember that". But you know, she obviously thinks it's okay to talk about him like that because... he's a man :rolleyes:

monkeypants · 05-02-2013 12:37pm

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

one of the guys in the group actually said, 'ah so you're not just a pretty face!' :eek: Would anyone ever make a comment like that to a man?

My Da. Doesn't say it all the time, but has said it. I would have thought it was a compliment.

Sexism you deal with in everyday life? ***Mod Note in first post. Please read***

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Sexism you deal with in everyday life? Mod Note in first post. Please read