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Ukraine: As it happens.

12467163

Comments

  • Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 21,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Agent Smith


    .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    Is this now a revolution or a protest?


  • Registered Users Posts: 48 eoin91


    Lou.m wrote: »
    Is this now a revolution or a protest?

    The Presidium of the Supreme Council of Crimea (Wiki Description: "100-member unicameral parliament of the Ukrainian territory the Autonomous Republic of Crimea")are classing this as the beginning of a Civil War, they released the following statement earlier.
    “Militants from Svoboda, Right Sector and other extremist organisations have announced a general mobilisation and are calling on people with guns to go to the barricades… This is no longer a peaceful protest, as we are constantly being told by opposition leaders and the biased media, nor are these even riots. This is the beginning of a civil war, the threat of which the Crimean parliament has repeatedly warned” said the statement from members of the Crimean parliament.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 431 ✭✭6781


    Plenty of propaganda on Russia Today. It's like Russia's version of Fox News.

    This crack down has been on the cards for a while now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    I fear and hope for the safety of those on both sides, the images of the city tonight are nothing short of horrific. Kiev will never be the same again either way, so much damage and violence.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    6781 wrote: »
    Plenty of propaganda on Russia Today. It's like Russia's version of Fox News.

    This crack down has been on the cards for a while now.

    Is there any genuine station or news reporting in Russia these days?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    Cydoniac wrote: »
    I fear and hope for the safety of those on both sides, the images of the city tonight are nothing short of horrific. Kiev will never be the same again either way, so much damage and violence.

    I don't know how the EU integration that the protestors seem to want could happen for a long time now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    Lou.m wrote: »
    I don't know how the EU integration that the protestors seem to want could happen for a long time now.
    I thought this too, there is protest and then there is pure chaos, the riots have descended into needless violence and war. I am particularly upset about the people who don't want to be involved but can't leave the area now. Could you imagine something of even a fraction of this scale happening in Ireland?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 431 ✭✭6781


    "Quote:
    “Militants from Svoboda, Right Sector and other extremist organisations have announced a general mobilisation and are calling on people with guns to go to the barricades… This is no longer a peaceful protest, as we are constantly being told by opposition leaders and the biased media, nor are these even riots. This is the beginning of a civil war"

    Great... All the people of Ukraine need now is this nazi scum making shît worse.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    6781 wrote: »
    "Quote:
    “Militants from Svoboda, Right Sector and other extremist organisations have announced a general mobilisation and are calling on people with guns to go to the barricades… This is no longer a peaceful protest, as we are constantly being told by opposition leaders and the biased media, nor are these even riots. This is the beginning of a civil war"

    Great... All the people of Ukraine need now is this nazi scum making shît worse.
    It's disgusting that what started as a protest is being hijacked as an excuse to cause real and very dangerous havoc.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    Cydoniac wrote: »
    It's disgusting that what started as a protest is being hijacked as an excuse to cause real and very dangerous havoc.

    That always happens it's why the regimes that take the place of the one ousted tend to be worse.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    See the irony of your statement here when US are deciding who should govern the Ukraine?

    Is it not obvious?

    And the Russian don't?

    I see both sides for what they are unlike you.

    I'm on the Ukrainian people's side not Putin's or Obama's.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    https://twitter.com/MarcusSchwarze/status/435939244926717952/photo/1

    These are FAKE pics ...they are said to be fake from today yet are still circulating.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    I'm on the Ukrainian people's side not Putin's or Obama's.


    There are two distinct Ukrainian sides...which one are you on?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The top right pic of the woman jumping was taken during the London riots.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    And the Russian don't?

    I see both sides for what they are unlike you.

    I'm on the Ukrainian people's side not Putin's or Obama's.
    I was under the impression this was more a Ukrainian people VS state battle? Hence the civil war moniker.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    Wow.... US Ambassador Pyatt helped direct traffic towards the Maidan earlier today..



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 431 ✭✭6781


    I'm on the Ukrainian people's.
    Bit simplistic...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    The top right pic of the woman jumping was taken during the London riots.

    Thanks. Poor woman.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    Lou.m wrote: »
    Wow.... US Ambassador Pyatt helped direct traffic towards the Maidan earlier today..

    Trust US to interfere with other countries, consistently.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    Lou.m wrote: »
    There are two distinct Ukrainian sides...which one are you on?

    It's either one or the other is it?

    No chance of a peaceful agreement if the current government steps down?

    Do I have to pick a side, east or west?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt from the US has made this statement.
    From this moment we consider Yanukovych to be responsible for everything happening in Ukraine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,516 ✭✭✭wazky


    It's Putin me off going to the Ukraine this summer I must say.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    Sochi journalists, should get themselves to Kyiv, Ukraine right now. ...any so-called journalist talking about Olympics right now and other fluff topic is not really a journalist who cares about what is happening in the world., but instead is likely to just be working for a propaganda machine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    This post has been deleted.
    That's just about the last thing Ukrainians want right now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    This post has been deleted.
    Well, duh. That's the whole reason this is happening in the first place.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    It's either one or the other is it?

    No chance of a peaceful agreement if the current government steps down?

    Do I have to pick a side, east or west?


    Some support him and there is little chance of him doing that anyway.

    I am not saying the position of peace is wrong it is just unlikely ...we would all prefer it it is just naive.

    Do I have to pick a side, east or west?

    I think the issue is should your human rights suffer because you pick one side that is against the govt?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 439 ✭✭Harold Weiss


    Cydoniac wrote: »
    Trust US to interfere with other countries, consistently.

    Former CIA officer Philip Giraldi on pro-Israel State Dept. official caught orchestrating regime change in Ukraine.

    Diplomacy Is a Four Letter Word
    Nuland was recently intercepted in a telephone conversation with the US Ambassador to the Ukraine Geoff Pyatt. She and the ambassador discussed whom they would support in their drive to rearrange the Ukrainian government, bringing in the UN afterwards to "glue" the deal. Nuland, who has visited the Ukraine several times to speak to the demonstrators and pass out cookies, described the possible European Union (EU) role in such a project disparagingly, using a four letter word which was widely reported in the media. The focus on her language somewhat obscured the far more important content of the call, discussing plans to destabilize the Ukraine while actively working to select one opposition politician as the preferred choice to bring about change in the government.

    Yep, US nothing to do with unrest there at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    Lou.m wrote: »
    Some support him and there is little chance of him doing that anyway.

    I am not saying the position of peace is wrong it is just unlikely ...we would all prefer it it is just naive.


    I think the issue is should your human rights suffer because you pick one side that is against the govt?

    What are you predicting a massive civil war?

    Lets hope your wrong.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m




    Ukraine crisis: "Apocalyptic" night-time clashes in Kiev BBC

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26249330
    Police are storming the main protest camp in Ukraine's capital, Kiev, which has been occupied since November.

    Explosions are taking place, fireworks are being thrown and large fires have broken out in Independence Square, known locally as the Maidan.

    The US is appalled at Kiev violence.
    Ukraine clashes: US 'appalled' at Kiev violence

    6 hours ago

    The US is ''appalled'' by the violence in Kiev in Ukraine, and urges Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich to restart a dialogue with opposition leaders, White House spokesman Jay Carney has told a news briefing.

    "We continue to condemn street violence and excessive use of force by either side. Force will not resolve the crisis," he said.

    Ukrainian police are storming the main anti-government protest camp in Kiev after months of occupation.

    Video http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-26249572


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    What are you predicting a massive civil war?

    Lets hope your wrong.

    From the BBC
    Ukraine crisis: "Apocalyptic" night-time clashes in Kiev BBC


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    Lou.m wrote: »
    From the BBC

    Hopefully he's forced to step down somehow and bring peace there.

    Putin can put a new puppet in later.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    @EuromaidanPR: BREAKING NEWS. The riot police #Berkut using underground communications gets to the subway which is located directly under the #Euromaidan

    Wonder what's going to happen next...attack from below to try shut down the riots tonight?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    Vesti (Ukrainian newspaper) journalist V. Veremei shot dead in the stomach.

    What is more concerning or not depending on your point of view.

    In a few Western regions of Ukraine, the people have already overthrown their state governments if they were loyal to Yanokovych.

    Also there is a report that 26 members of the parliament have left Ukraine in a private jet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    Lou.m wrote: »


    The US is appalled at Kiev violence.


    Video http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-26249572
    But at the same time the US have pumped a lot of money into destabilising the Ukranian government for their own gains.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37599.htm
    That was a good move there, whoever came up with it. The timing is perfect with us all following the winter olympics and journalists over there covering it will probably be told they'll lose their jobs if they leave the olympics.
    And there seems to be a slick pr campaign to have us rooting for the people of Ukraine.
    And who wouldnt! I'm rooting for them myself!
    But there's an agenda here and a bloody big one at that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Former CIA officer Philip Giraldi on pro-Israel State Dept. official caught orchestrating regime change in Ukraine.

    Diplomacy Is a Four Letter Word



    Yep, US nothing to do with unrest there at all.


    So what if they were helping the opposition. That's up to them. Russia is paying for the crackdown.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    shedweller wrote: »
    But at the same time the US have pumped a lot of money into destabilising the Ukranian government for their own gains.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37599.htm
    That was a good move there, whoever came up with it. The timing is perfect with us all following the winter olympics and journalists over there covering it will probably be told they'll lose their jobs if they leave the olympics.
    And there seems to be a slick pr campaign to have us rooting for the people of Ukraine.
    And who wouldnt! I'm rooting for them myself!
    But there's an agenda here and a bloody big one at that.


    There is always an agenda.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    See the irony of your statement here when US are deciding who should govern the Ukraine?

    Is it not obvious?

    The attempts by pro Russians to denigrate the UKrainian opposition is sickening. Give it over. The US isn't interested in instability in the region and it isn't the Cold War. Somebody should tell the anti-American left that Russia is now fascist.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    The attempts by pro Russians to denigrate the UKrainian opposition is sickening. Give it over. The US isn't interested in instability in the region and it isn't the Cold War. Somebody should tell the anti-American left that Russia is now fascist.
    I don't yet have an opinion on the crisis in Ukraine, but will step in here:
    Accusing people of 'Anti-Americanism' is bullshít.

    People are anti-US-government, and who the fúck wouldn't be these days, since we now have proof that they are spying on literally the entire planets Internet communications - if criticizing the US is so Anti-American, then what the fúck is spying on the entire world? By the same idiotic standard it'd make the US, Anti-Irish, Anti-UK, Anti-French etc. - and that's actually more rational, since the US directly are harming the actual populations of these nationalities home countries, by spying on them.

    So quit the 'Anti-American' bullshít -it's totally meaningless now, even as a form of rhetorical argument - if anything, using equally nonsensical standards of argument, the US government is Anti-TheRestOfTheWorld.


  • Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭ArnieSilvia


    From Eastern European perspective, I read some comments on Polish forums (ignoring official media) and generally it's acknowledged that there's people protesting who just want EU and are frustrated with what's going on. Would be better if they actually knew that their country after joining EU will be, bought by foreign capital making big $$ in the process. Let's face it - it's a big market and EU folks were "disappointed" that they won't be able to exploit it if Ukraina went Russian way.
    Now US, they want more power in the region and Russia understandably protest.

    As much as I hate what Russians and Germans did during wars I have to admit that their's current foreign affairs dept (Lavrow) is doing great job.

    But there is a strong far right wing there at these protests calling Bandera their hero. That man is responsible for leading armed groups who did mass killings of HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of people in deeply disturbing manner. They were simply having best joy during these killings. Guess what we are facing now if these far right people take over.

    My grandparents had to flee Ukraine because of extermination of Poles, Jewish, Slovaks and Russians on that land (was part of Poland back then), burning entire villages, children, women, cutting pregnant women open, tortures on mass scale - i.e. "attaching" children to table top with a knife put through their tongue, letting them die slowly, throwing newborns on doors or fence. Unexplainable cruelty on a mass scale.

    There's voices that ok, Janukowycz broke promises he did when being chosen but it was democratically chosen government after all.
    There's time for revolution when you're ruled by autocratic govt, but if it's a democratic govt, it's a different story. Time for change it is at elections.

    Supporting that far wing is just stupid, end of.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    It seems that there is no uniting identity in the Ukraine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    I stopped reading these types of threads on boards because no matter what the conflict, no matter who the main actors, and who the perpetrators, there will always, always be a significant number of posters who will pile in with their anti-American biases, and firmly blame America for what's going on. It's just so bloody banal and inane at this stage, and yet nevertheless somewhat perverse that some peoples' response to any tragedy is to use it as an excuse to have a go at America.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,440 ✭✭✭The Aussie


    Einhard wrote: »
    I stopped reading these types of threads on boards because no matter what the conflict.

    always be a significant number of posters who will pile in with their anti-American biases, and firmly blame America for what's going on.

    I read these Threads to laugh at the odd ball connections Loons* make to justify their paranoia, "Merica" the cause of, and root of all evil..... :rolleyes:




    * LOL. :pac:......


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    From Eastern European perspective, I read some comments on Polish forums (ignoring official media) and generally it's acknowledged that there's people protesting who just want EU and are frustrated with what's going on. Would be better if they actually knew that their country after joining EU will be, bought by foreign capital making big $$ in the process. Let's face it - it's a big market and EU folks were "disappointed" that they won't be able to exploit it if Ukraina went Russian way.
    Now US, they want more power in the region and Russia understandably protest.

    As much as I hate what Russians and Germans did during wars I have to admit that their's current foreign affairs dept (Lavrow) is doing great job.

    But there is a strong far right wing there at these protests calling Bandera their hero. That man is responsible for leading armed groups who did mass killings of HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of people in deeply disturbing manner. They were simply having best joy during these killings. Guess what we are facing now if these far right people take over.

    My grandparents had to flee Ukraine because of extermination of Poles, Jewish, Slovaks and Russians on that land (was part of Poland back then), burning entire villages, children, women, cutting pregnant women open, tortures on mass scale - i.e. "attaching" children to table top with a knife put through their tongue, letting them die slowly, throwing newborns on doors or fence. Unexplainable cruelty on a mass scale.

    There's voices that ok, Janukowycz broke promises he did when being chosen but it was democratically chosen government after all.
    There's time for revolution when you're ruled by autocratic govt, but if it's a democratic govt, it's a different story. Time for change it is at elections.

    Supporting that far wing is just stupid, end of.

    people here need to read this


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    Lou.m wrote: »
    Is this now a revolution or a protest?

    Looks like civil war more and more



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 906 ✭✭✭Eight Ball


    Looks like civil war more and more


    The smell of revolution is a wonderful thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,440 ✭✭✭The Aussie


    Eight Ball wrote: »
    The smell of revolution is a wonderful thing.

    From the saftey of an Armchair, yes.

    Not to sure I would like to be on the ground there to be honest.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭oak5548


    I still dont think many people realize the extent of how serious this is, seeing as most media outlets are hardly reporting it as any more than just run of the mill riots.

    Also, I love seeing the "police" get the absolute shít beat out of them in that video. Because the ukranian riot police, berkut, titushki and various other government thugs are nothing but murdering scumbags.
    The current ukrainian government are absolute filth, and I hope they get whats coming to them.


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