Ukraine: As it happens.

Lou.m · 19-02-2014 2:40am

Is this now a revolution or a protest?

eoin91 · 19-02-2014 2:45am

Lou.m wrote: »

Is this now a revolution or a protest?

The Presidium of the Supreme Council of Crimea (Wiki Description: "100-member unicameral parliament of the Ukrainian territory the Autonomous Republic of Crimea")are classing this as the beginning of a Civil War, they released the following statement earlier.

“Militants from Svoboda, Right Sector and other extremist organisations have announced a general mobilisation and are calling on people with guns to go to the barricades… This is no longer a peaceful protest, as we are constantly being told by opposition leaders and the biased media, nor are these even riots. This is the beginning of a civil war, the threat of which the Crimean parliament has repeatedly warned” said the statement from members of the Crimean parliament.

19-02-2014 2:48am

Plenty of propaganda on Russia Today. It's like Russia's version of Fox News.

This crack down has been on the cards for a while now.

J_E · 19-02-2014 2:48am

I fear and hope for the safety of those on both sides, the images of the city tonight are nothing short of horrific. Kiev will never be the same again either way, so much damage and violence.

Lou.m · 19-02-2014 2:49am

6781 wrote: »

Plenty of propaganda on Russia Today. It's like Russia's version of Fox News.

This crack down has been on the cards for a while now.

Is there any genuine station or news reporting in Russia these days?

Lou.m · 19-02-2014 2:50am

Cydoniac wrote: »

I fear and hope for the safety of those on both sides, the images of the city tonight are nothing short of horrific. Kiev will never be the same again either way, so much damage and violence.

I don't know how the EU integration that the protestors seem to want could happen for a long time now.

J_E · 19-02-2014 2:53am

Lou.m wrote: »

I don't know how the EU integration that the protestors seem to want could happen for a long time now.

I thought this too, there is protest and then there is pure chaos, the riots have descended into needless violence and war. I am particularly upset about the people who don't want to be involved but can't leave the area now. Could you imagine something of even a fraction of this scale happening in Ireland?

19-02-2014 2:53am

"Quote:
“Militants from Svoboda, Right Sector and other extremist organisations have announced a general mobilisation and are calling on people with guns to go to the barricades… This is no longer a peaceful protest, as we are constantly being told by opposition leaders and the biased media, nor are these even riots. This is the beginning of a civil war"

Great... All the people of Ukraine need now is this nazi scum making shît worse.

J_E · 19-02-2014 2:56am

6781 wrote: »

"Quote:
“Militants from Svoboda, Right Sector and other extremist organisations have announced a general mobilisation and are calling on people with guns to go to the barricades… This is no longer a peaceful protest, as we are constantly being told by opposition leaders and the biased media, nor are these even riots. This is the beginning of a civil war"

Great... All the people of Ukraine need now is this nazi scum making shît worse.

It's disgusting that what started as a protest is being hijacked as an excuse to cause real and very dangerous havoc.

Lou.m · 19-02-2014 3:00am

Cydoniac wrote: »

It's disgusting that what started as a protest is being hijacked as an excuse to cause real and very dangerous havoc.

That always happens it's why the regimes that take the place of the one ousted tend to be worse.

enfant terrible · 19-02-2014 3:04am

Harold Weiss wrote: »

See the irony of your statement here when US are deciding who should govern the Ukraine?

Is it not obvious?

And the Russian don't?

I see both sides for what they are unlike you.

I'm on the Ukrainian people's side not Putin's or Obama's.

Lou.m · 19-02-2014 3:04am

https://twitter.com/MarcusSchwarze/status/435939244926717952/photo/1

These are FAKE pics ...they are said to be fake from today yet are still circulating.

Lou.m · 19-02-2014 3:05am

enfant terrible wrote: »

I'm on the Ukrainian people's side not Putin's or Obama's.

There are two distinct Ukrainian sides...which one are you on?

19-02-2014 3:06am

The top right pic of the woman jumping was taken during the London riots.

J_E · 19-02-2014 3:07am

enfant terrible wrote: »

And the Russian don't?

I see both sides for what they are unlike you.

I'm on the Ukrainian people's side not Putin's or Obama's.

I was under the impression this was more a Ukrainian people VS state battle? Hence the civil war moniker.

Lou.m · 19-02-2014 3:08am

Wow.... US Ambassador Pyatt helped direct traffic towards the Maidan earlier today..

19-02-2014 3:10am

enfant terrible wrote: »

I'm on the Ukrainian people's.

Bit simplistic...

Lou.m · 19-02-2014 3:12am

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

The top right pic of the woman jumping was taken during the London riots.

Thanks. Poor woman.

J_E · 19-02-2014 3:14am

Lou.m wrote: »

Wow.... US Ambassador Pyatt helped direct traffic towards the Maidan earlier today..

Trust US to interfere with other countries, consistently.

enfant terrible · 19-02-2014 3:14am

Lou.m wrote: »

There are two distinct Ukrainian sides...which one are you on?

It's either one or the other is it?

No chance of a peaceful agreement if the current government steps down?

Do I have to pick a side, east or west?

Lou.m · 19-02-2014 3:16am

Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt from the US has made this statement.

From this moment we consider Yanukovych to be responsible for everything happening in Ukraine.

wazky · 19-02-2014 3:18am

It's Putin me off going to the Ukraine this summer I must say.

Lou.m · 19-02-2014 3:18am

Sochi journalists, should get themselves to Kyiv, Ukraine right now. ...any so-called journalist talking about Olympics right now and other fluff topic is not really a journalist who cares about what is happening in the world., but instead is likely to just be working for a propaganda machine.

Fred Swanson · 19-02-2014 3:19am

This post has been deleted.

J_E · 19-02-2014 3:26am

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That's just about the last thing Ukrainians want right now.

Fred Swanson · 19-02-2014 3:28am

This post has been deleted.

J_E · 19-02-2014 3:30am

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well, duh. That's the whole reason this is happening in the first place.

Lou.m · 19-02-2014 3:36am

enfant terrible wrote: »

It's either one or the other is it?

No chance of a peaceful agreement if the current government steps down?

Do I have to pick a side, east or west?

Some support him and there is little chance of him doing that anyway.

I am not saying the position of peace is wrong it is just unlikely ...we would all prefer it it is just naive.

Do I have to pick a side, east or west?

I think the issue is should your human rights suffer because you pick one side that is against the govt?

Harold Weiss · 19-02-2014 3:40am

Cydoniac wrote: »

Trust US to interfere with other countries, consistently.

Former CIA officer Philip Giraldi on pro-Israel State Dept. official caught orchestrating regime change in Ukraine.

Diplomacy Is a Four Letter Word

Nuland was recently intercepted in a telephone conversation with the US Ambassador to the Ukraine Geoff Pyatt. She and the ambassador discussed whom they would support in their drive to rearrange the Ukrainian government, bringing in the UN afterwards to "glue" the deal. Nuland, who has visited the Ukraine several times to speak to the demonstrators and pass out cookies, described the possible European Union (EU) role in such a project disparagingly, using a four letter word which was widely reported in the media. The focus on her language somewhat obscured the far more important content of the call, discussing plans to destabilize the Ukraine while actively working to select one opposition politician as the preferred choice to bring about change in the government.

Yep, US nothing to do with unrest there at all.

enfant terrible · 19-02-2014 3:48am

Lou.m wrote: »

Some support him and there is little chance of him doing that anyway.

I am not saying the position of peace is wrong it is just unlikely ...we would all prefer it it is just naive.

I think the issue is should your human rights suffer because you pick one side that is against the govt?

What are you predicting a massive civil war?

Lets hope your wrong.

Lou.m · 19-02-2014 3:58am

Ukraine crisis: "Apocalyptic" night-time clashes in Kiev BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26249330

Police are storming the main protest camp in Ukraine's capital, Kiev, which has been occupied since November.

Explosions are taking place, fireworks are being thrown and large fires have broken out in Independence Square, known locally as the Maidan.

The US is appalled at Kiev violence.

Ukraine clashes: US 'appalled' at Kiev violence

6 hours ago

The US is ''appalled'' by the violence in Kiev in Ukraine, and urges Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich to restart a dialogue with opposition leaders, White House spokesman Jay Carney has told a news briefing.

"We continue to condemn street violence and excessive use of force by either side. Force will not resolve the crisis," he said.

Ukrainian police are storming the main anti-government protest camp in Kiev after months of occupation.

Video http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-26249572

Lou.m · 19-02-2014 3:59am

enfant terrible wrote: »

What are you predicting a massive civil war?

Lets hope your wrong.

From the BBC

Ukraine crisis: "Apocalyptic" night-time clashes in Kiev BBC

enfant terrible · 19-02-2014 4:08am

Lou.m wrote: »

From the BBC

Hopefully he's forced to step down somehow and bring peace there.

Putin can put a new puppet in later.

J_E · 19-02-2014 4:20am

@EuromaidanPR: BREAKING NEWS. The riot police #Berkut using underground communications gets to the subway which is located directly under the #Euromaidan

Wonder what's going to happen next...attack from below to try shut down the riots tonight?

Lou.m · 19-02-2014 5:18am

Vesti (Ukrainian newspaper) journalist V. Veremei shot dead in the stomach.

What is more concerning or not depending on your point of view.

In a few Western regions of Ukraine, the people have already overthrown their state governments if they were loyal to Yanokovych.

Also there is a report that 26 members of the parliament have left Ukraine in a private jet.

shedweller · 19-02-2014 5:20am

Lou.m wrote: »

The US is appalled at Kiev violence.

Video http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-26249572

But at the same time the US have pumped a lot of money into destabilising the Ukranian government for their own gains.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37599.htm
That was a good move there, whoever came up with it. The timing is perfect with us all following the winter olympics and journalists over there covering it will probably be told they'll lose their jobs if they leave the olympics.
And there seems to be a slick pr campaign to have us rooting for the people of Ukraine.
And who wouldnt! I'm rooting for them myself!
But there's an agenda here and a bloody big one at that.

Frank Lee Midere · 19-02-2014 5:24am

Harold Weiss wrote: »

Former CIA officer Philip Giraldi on pro-Israel State Dept. official caught orchestrating regime change in Ukraine.

Diplomacy Is a Four Letter Word

Yep, US nothing to do with unrest there at all.

So what if they were helping the opposition. That's up to them. Russia is paying for the crackdown.

Lou.m · 19-02-2014 5:24am

shedweller wrote: »

But at the same time the US have pumped a lot of money into destabilising the Ukranian government for their own gains.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37599.htm
That was a good move there, whoever came up with it. The timing is perfect with us all following the winter olympics and journalists over there covering it will probably be told they'll lose their jobs if they leave the olympics.
And there seems to be a slick pr campaign to have us rooting for the people of Ukraine.
And who wouldnt! I'm rooting for them myself!
But there's an agenda here and a bloody big one at that.

There is always an agenda.

Frank Lee Midere · 19-02-2014 5:29am

Harold Weiss wrote: »

See the irony of your statement here when US are deciding who should govern the Ukraine?

Is it not obvious?

The attempts by pro Russians to denigrate the UKrainian opposition is sickening. Give it over. The US isn't interested in instability in the region and it isn't the Cold War. Somebody should tell the anti-American left that Russia is now fascist.

KyussBishop · 19-02-2014 6:39am

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

The attempts by pro Russians to denigrate the UKrainian opposition is sickening. Give it over. The US isn't interested in instability in the region and it isn't the Cold War. Somebody should tell the anti-American left that Russia is now fascist.

I don't yet have an opinion on the crisis in Ukraine, but will step in here:
Accusing people of 'Anti-Americanism' is bullshít.

People are anti-US-government, and who the fúck wouldn't be these days, since we now have proof that they are spying on literally the entire planets Internet communications - if criticizing the US is so Anti-American, then what the fúck is spying on the entire world? By the same idiotic standard it'd make the US, Anti-Irish, Anti-UK, Anti-French etc. - and that's actually more rational, since the US directly are harming the actual populations of these nationalities home countries, by spying on them.

So quit the 'Anti-American' bullshít -it's totally meaningless now, even as a form of rhetorical argument - if anything, using equally nonsensical standards of argument, the US government is Anti-TheRestOfTheWorld.

ArnieSilvia · 19-02-2014 7:49am

From Eastern European perspective, I read some comments on Polish forums (ignoring official media) and generally it's acknowledged that there's people protesting who just want EU and are frustrated with what's going on. Would be better if they actually knew that their country after joining EU will be, bought by foreign capital making big $$ in the process. Let's face it - it's a big market and EU folks were "disappointed" that they won't be able to exploit it if Ukraina went Russian way.
Now US, they want more power in the region and Russia understandably protest.

As much as I hate what Russians and Germans did during wars I have to admit that their's current foreign affairs dept (Lavrow) is doing great job.

But there is a strong far right wing there at these protests calling Bandera their hero. That man is responsible for leading armed groups who did mass killings of HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of people in deeply disturbing manner. They were simply having best joy during these killings. Guess what we are facing now if these far right people take over.

My grandparents had to flee Ukraine because of extermination of Poles, Jewish, Slovaks and Russians on that land (was part of Poland back then), burning entire villages, children, women, cutting pregnant women open, tortures on mass scale - i.e. "attaching" children to table top with a knife put through their tongue, letting them die slowly, throwing newborns on doors or fence. Unexplainable cruelty on a mass scale.

There's voices that ok, Janukowycz broke promises he did when being chosen but it was democratically chosen government after all.
There's time for revolution when you're ruled by autocratic govt, but if it's a democratic govt, it's a different story. Time for change it is at elections.

Supporting that far wing is just stupid, end of.

Lou.m · 19-02-2014 7:51am

It seems that there is no uniting identity in the Ukraine.

Einhard · 19-02-2014 8:15am

I stopped reading these types of threads on boards because no matter what the conflict, no matter who the main actors, and who the perpetrators, there will always, always be a significant number of posters who will pile in with their anti-American biases, and firmly blame America for what's going on. It's just so bloody banal and inane at this stage, and yet nevertheless somewhat perverse that some peoples' response to any tragedy is to use it as an excuse to have a go at America.

The Aussie · 19-02-2014 9:02am

Einhard wrote: »

I stopped reading these types of threads on boards because no matter what the conflict.

always be a significant number of posters who will pile in with their anti-American biases, and firmly blame America for what's going on.

I read these Threads to laugh at the odd ball connections Loons* make to justify their paranoia, "Merica" the cause of, and root of all evil..... :rolleyes:

* LOL. :pac:......

SEPT 23 1989 · 19-02-2014 9:24am

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

From Eastern European perspective, I read some comments on Polish forums (ignoring official media) and generally it's acknowledged that there's people protesting who just want EU and are frustrated with what's going on. Would be better if they actually knew that their country after joining EU will be, bought by foreign capital making big $$ in the process. Let's face it - it's a big market and EU folks were "disappointed" that they won't be able to exploit it if Ukraina went Russian way.
Now US, they want more power in the region and Russia understandably protest.

As much as I hate what Russians and Germans did during wars I have to admit that their's current foreign affairs dept (Lavrow) is doing great job.

But there is a strong far right wing there at these protests calling Bandera their hero. That man is responsible for leading armed groups who did mass killings of HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of people in deeply disturbing manner. They were simply having best joy during these killings. Guess what we are facing now if these far right people take over.

My grandparents had to flee Ukraine because of extermination of Poles, Jewish, Slovaks and Russians on that land (was part of Poland back then), burning entire villages, children, women, cutting pregnant women open, tortures on mass scale - i.e. "attaching" children to table top with a knife put through their tongue, letting them die slowly, throwing newborns on doors or fence. Unexplainable cruelty on a mass scale.

There's voices that ok, Janukowycz broke promises he did when being chosen but it was democratically chosen government after all.
There's time for revolution when you're ruled by autocratic govt, but if it's a democratic govt, it's a different story. Time for change it is at elections.

Supporting that far wing is just stupid, end of.

people here need to read this

Count Dooku · 19-02-2014 9:36am

Lou.m wrote: »

Is this now a revolution or a protest?

Looks like civil war more and more

Eight Ball · 19-02-2014 9:49am

Count Dooku wrote: »

Looks like civil war more and more

The smell of revolution is a wonderful thing.

The Aussie · 19-02-2014 9:57am

Eight Ball wrote: »

The smell of revolution is a wonderful thing.

From the saftey of an Armchair, yes.

Not to sure I would like to be on the ground there to be honest.

oak5548 · 19-02-2014 10:00am

I still dont think many people realize the extent of how serious this is, seeing as most media outlets are hardly reporting it as any more than just run of the mill riots.

Also, I love seeing the "police" get the absolute shít beat out of them in that video. Because the ukranian riot police, berkut, titushki and various other government thugs are nothing but murdering scumbags.
The current ukrainian government are absolute filth, and I hope they get whats coming to them.

Ukraine: As it happens.

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