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first date - go dutch?

  • 23-10-2008 9:22am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭idunnoutellme


    hi guys
    wandering about peoples opinions on this
    on a first date - no matter where you go : cinema, out for a meal, drinks
    do guys prefer to pay? do girls prefer guys to pay? or would you prefer goin dutch?

    just that i was out on a date last nite and well the guy didnt offer to pay - considering he's in a well paid job like and i always offer to go dutch anyway but kinda expect the guy to say 'no here i'll get this' you know, and when he didnt it kinda made me think he's cheap....
    like i went out and got my hair done for the date - i consider that my half of the bargain ha ha (joke)


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Comments

  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭John Mason


    why would you expect the guy to pay? Just cos you got your hair done? the more important question is, why would you get your hair done for a date?

    how do you know how much money he earns? Do you know how much his mortgage is or his goings?

    I think in this day and age is it very disrespectful to expect one person to pay for your night out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,584 ✭✭✭✭Creamy Goodness


    what the hell is Dutch?

    Myself I at least offer to pay but normally ends up like mrs Doyle and mrs dineen when they went to the mainland.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭tba


    if you suggest the date you should pay, then they can can a drink after.


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭John Mason


    tba wrote: »
    if you suggest the date you should pay, then they can can a drink after.

    what:confused:


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    kinda expect the guy to say 'no here i'll get this' you know, and when he didnt it kinda made me think he's cheap....

    What exactly are your reasons for expecting him to pay?
    This is 2008, women are as capable of having their own money as men.
    I could turn that around and say that you are cheap for not coughing up your half no?
    IMO it's essential to always pay your own way in order to keep your pride and self respect intact.

    Only ladies of the night expect payment for their services...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭kmick


    Some people are just mean.

    On the other hand Chivalry is dead and its because feminism killed it. Men are wary opening a door or paying for a meal in case it is seen as some sort of throwback. The young lads are fine cause they know the rules but people like me who were brought up to be polite and gentlemanly are unsure.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭christeb


    He said: They can can a drink!

    OP as a guy I would normally offer, it is a bit strange that he didn't. Although it must be said I haven't been on a first date in quite a while :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,584 ✭✭✭c - 13


    If i asked a girl out on a date i'd pay it, I'd be pretty annoyed off if she didnt offer to pay her way though. You shouldnt expect him to pay for you automatically.

    Plus what he earns Vs what you earn has absolutely nothing to do with it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,407 ✭✭✭✭justsomebloke


    I have to say I have always found it odd how some women pick and choose the times they want to be equal to men


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭idunnoutellme


    well i know he has money because he told me what profession he is in and he doesnt have a mortgage or pay rent and his car is a company car
    well he asked me out
    i dunno i guess i like a guy who likes to treat a girl to a meal or a drink - there's nothing wrong with it
    i wouldnt be much of a feminist anyway - i mean i got my hair done for the date - my mistake i guess ha ha but i just wanted to look nice and figured he'd be the type to look after me for the evening

    anyway sure thats the whole idea of the thread just wanted to find out what people's opinions are


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    Only ladies of the night expect payment for their services...

    and bless them for that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭JaneyMc


    hi guys
    wandering about peoples opinions on this
    on a first date - no matter where you go : cinema, out for a meal, drinks
    do guys prefer to pay? do girls prefer guys to pay? or would you prefer goin dutch?

    just that i was out on a date last nite and well the guy didnt offer to pay - considering he's in a well paid job like and i always offer to go dutch anyway but kinda expect the guy to say 'no here i'll get this' you know, and when he didnt it kinda made me think he's cheap....
    like i went out and got my hair done for the date - i consider that my half of the bargain ha ha (joke)


    I usually go dutch and if I don't I pay for the next time we go out. Very rarely do I let a guy pay for something and not return the favour. It's a bit sad and shallow that you consider him cheap because he didnt offer to pay for everything.
    The more important question is, why would you get your hair done for a date?

    Why is this more important? :confused: Fair enough she shouldnt expect him to pay for everything because of this but some people like to look nice for 1st dates?
    Cremo wrote: »
    what the hell is Dutch?

    Dutch = Halvesies.


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭John Mason


    well i know he has money because he told me what profession


    LOL, did you go on line and check what the pay rate for that profession was? taking into account his years of experience and age.

    Without sounding rude m'dear but you are appearing as a gold digger


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,247 ✭✭✭✭6th


    well i know he has money because he told me what profession he is in and he doesnt have a mortgage or pay rent and his car is a company car
    well he asked me out
    i dunno i guess i like a guy who likes to treat a girl to a meal or a drink - there's nothing wrong with it
    i wouldnt be much of a feminist anyway - i mean i got my hair done for the date - my mistake i guess ha ha but i just wanted to look nice and figured he'd be the type to look after me for the evening

    anyway sure thats the whole idea of the thread just wanted to find out what people's opinions are

    Personal question time (and obviously you dont have to answer but ...) did you put out?


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭John Mason


    JaneyMc wrote: »

    Why is this more important? :confused: Fair enough she shouldnt expect him to pay for everything because of this but some people like to look nice for 1st dates?

    sorry this is obviously a concept i dont understand, i get my hair done for me not for anyone else, so i really dont understand how getting her hair done has any relavence to the question she asked


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭idunnoutellme


    ye i guess it is wrong to call him cheap - it is a strong word, but not to offer to pay at all is not very 'gentlemanly' i guess? no? i've no problem paying for myself by the way....but i work in a company full of men and none of them would ever let their girlfriends pay for anything so i suppose their opinions grow on me


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    i dunno i guess i like a guy who likes to treat a girl to a meal or a drink

    In this day and age you do not have the right to expect that.
    You haven't answered my question btw: What exactly are your reasons for expecting him to pay?
    there's nothing wrong with it

    On may levels, there is a whole lot wrong with it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭idunnoutellme


    6th wrote: »
    Personal question time (and obviously you dont have to answer but ...) did you put out?

    didnt you read - he didnt pay so no ha ha ha no it was a very classy first date :P


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    ye i guess it is wrong to call him cheap - it is a strong word, but not to offer to pay at all is not very 'gentlemanly' i guess? no?

    The Mr. Darcy types only existed in the last century...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭mountainyman


    I would always offer to pay but I would expect the woman to pay half. If she didn't I would let her pick next time and if she picked somewhere she couldn't afford that I had to pay for I would break up with her.

    Lots of women expect the man to pay.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,247 ✭✭✭✭6th


    ye i guess it is wrong to call him cheap - it is a strong word, but not to offer to pay at all is not very 'gentlemanly' i guess? no? i've no problem paying for myself by the way....but i work in a company full of men and none of them would ever let their girlfriends pay for anything so i suppose their opinions grow on me

    Oh! So you're his girlfriend?

    You expected him to pay and he probably expected you to put out ..... neither of you got what you wanted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭idunnoutellme


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    In this day and age you do not have the right to expect that.
    You haven't answered my question btw: What exactly are your reasons for expecting him to pay?



    On may levels, there is a whole lot wrong with it.

    my reasons are : its a first date , he's a guy and he asked me out :P

    i'm no golddigger...as i'm fairly well paid...but i like to be treated once in a while...
    obviously its not a biggie and i'll still go out with him cos he asked me out again and he is a lovely chap but i just wanted to know peoples opinions on the topic


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    I'd offer to pay to appear a "gentleman" and its a first date but if she said ok and I did actually end up having to pay full whack then I'd wonder about going on that second date :cool:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭idunnoutellme


    well this thread is an eye opener ha ha men eh :P


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    my reasons are : its a first date , he's a guy and he asked me out :P

    But that's not an actual valid reason.
    I'm just trying to get to the bottom of your way of thinking because I for one just don't understand why you have that expectation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭ruben


    He asked you out and you paid in total...he didn't offer to pay or go dutch?

    That's just patently bad manners in my book. Nothing to do with equality or feminism or anything else.

    The rules on these things are, I think pretty simple,
    1st date - he asks you out, you offer to go dutch, he refuses and pays in full.
    2nd date - the opposite. You pay.

    There ofter, go dutch.

    If you ask him out on the first date then you pay.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    well this thread is an eye opener ha ha women eh :P

    Fixed that for ya. :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 375 ✭✭Curlypinkie


    Hm, a few valid posts. I don't want to agree or disagree with any, it is a very personal opinion.
    However, if I got asked out on a first date by a fella, I would expect him to pay. Yes, expect. Even if he's in a worse paid job (shock horror).
    It's just that I would not be impressed if I was expected to half everything. I would offer, obviously, but if that offer wasn't turned down, there wouldn't be a date after that.
    I am not a gold digger, I earn good money and I can afford to go out on my own. And if I ask the guy out in question I would offer to pay the lot.
    For some reason I agree with the OP. I turn up, look great for the date, he should take my jacket off, help me order wine off the menu, recommend a dish...
    I think I'm just really, really old fashioned that way. If a guy is not chevalier (spelling?) on the first date, chances are very slim he will buy me flowers, give me little pressies, shower me with attention etc. And trust me I LOVE to do those things to a fella as well, it's just something that can't be taught that late in life...
    Just from my experience ladies and gents!


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    my reasons are : its a first date , he's a guy and he asked me out :P
    What does the fact that he's male have to do with it? We can't have our cake and eat it m'dear - go around demanding equality but oh, would you mind picking up the bill, ta.
    It was a first date for him too...
    Would you have paid for it in full if you had been the one to ask him - or do you expect the man to do the asking out?
    i'm no golddigger...as i'm fairly well paid...but i like to be treated once in a
    Maybe he likes to be treated once in a while as well.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭idunnoutellme


    ruben wrote: »
    He asked you out and you paid in total...he didn't offer to pay or go dutch?

    That's just patently bad manners in my book. Nothing to do with equality or feminism or anything else.

    The rules on these things are, I think pretty simple,
    1st date - he asks you out, you offer to go dutch, he refuses and pays in full.
    2nd date - the opposite. You pay.

    There ofter, go dutch.

    If you ask him out on the first date then you pay.

    yep i like your way of thinkin :) but there was no offering of anything, we just paid halfsies.

    anyway from this thread i found out that men are afraid of paying on a first date in case the woman might find it offensive apparently (just a lame excuse on their part really but whatever) so i will never expect a guy to pay again


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    Hm, a few valid posts. I don't want to agree or disagree with any, it is a very personal opinion.
    However, if I got asked out on a first date by a fella, I would expect him to pay. Yes, expect. Even if he's in a worse paid job (shock horror).
    It's just that I would not be impressed if I was expected to half everything. I would offer, obviously, but if that offer wasn't turned down, there wouldn't be a date after that.
    I am not a gold digger, I earn good money and I can afford to go out on my own. And if I ask the guy out in question I would offer to pay the lot.
    For some reason I agree with the OP. I turn up, look great for the date, he should take my jacket off, help me order wine off the menu, recommend a dish...
    I think I'm just really, really old fashioned that way. If a guy is not chevalier (spelling?) on the first date, chances are very slim he will buy me flowers, give me little pressies, shower me with attention etc. And trust me I LOVE to do those things to a fella as well, it's just something that can't be taught that late in life...
    Just from my experience ladies and gents!

    That whole post just utterly shocks me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,471 ✭✭✭elexes


    tbh i would of paid if i had asked you out but it wouldnt last to long if after the 2rd date you were expecting everything handed to you.


    why is it girls never bring home flowers to the guy.... weird thread this but i do understand where the op is comming from.

    i think hes probably cheap, and thanks for getting your hair done and making the effort im sure he saw


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    All depends. I would usually have paid (or tried to pay) on previous first dates, especially if I had asked them out. But I would expect somebody with a job to go dutch most of the time. That said, it's also nice to pay for your partner, or have them buy you dinner too. It should be a spontaneous, rather than gender-dictated thing though.

    One thing guaranteed to annoy me would be that I was expected to pay, especially by somebody who works. It's corny, and raises all kinds of stupid issues, like what is expected in return.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 375 ✭✭Curlypinkie


    Beruthiel: I don't know in what way?
    See, it's only my point of view and my experiences. I wouldn't say there's anything shocking in there?
    Maybe it's just a difference in cultures?
    I have to say I've been on many, many, many (ad infinitum) dates, and it's my, you can call it statistic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭idunnoutellme


    taconnol wrote: »
    What does the fact that he's male have to do with it? We can't have our cake and eat it m'dear - go around demanding equality but oh, would you mind picking up the bill, ta.
    It was a first date for him too...
    Would you have paid for it in full if you had been the one to ask him - or do you expect the man to do the asking out?

    Maybe he likes to be treated once in a while as well.

    the line :'go around demanding equality' - what does that have to do with anything? i dont go around demanding equality. and i have no problem treatin a guy once in a while - if i thought that he feels the same way.
    if you cant be treated on a first date by the person who asked you out then when can you???:confused:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,879 ✭✭✭Kya1976


    hi guys
    wandering about peoples opinions on this
    on a first date - no matter where you go : cinema, out for a meal, drinks
    do guys prefer to pay? do girls prefer guys to pay? or would you prefer goin dutch?

    just that i was out on a date last nite and well the guy didnt offer to pay - considering he's in a well paid job like and i always offer to go dutch anyway but kinda expect the guy to say 'no here i'll get this' you know, and when he didnt it kinda made me think he's cheap....
    like i went out and got my hair done for the date - i consider that my half of the bargain ha ha (joke)
    I definitely wouldn't expect the guy to pay for the date, I would absolutely go dutch.......
    think your reasoning is off, just because he earns more money and you got your hair done he should have paid???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 375 ✭✭Curlypinkie


    elexes wrote: »
    tbh i would of paid if i had asked you out but it wouldnt last to long if after the 2rd date you were expecting everything handed to you.


    why is it girls never bring home flowers to the guy.... weird thread this but i do understand where the op is comming from.


    Now this is a pet peeve of mine.
    I have ALWAYS been the one giving fellas little gifts, flowers, pressies, stuff like that. Almost all my female friends do it? AND they're Irish and foreign. I don't understand girls who would just expect to be given stuff and never give anything back. (bj's spring to mind, lol, don't know why..)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,518 ✭✭✭matrim


    I turn up, look great for the date, he should take my jacket off, help me order wine off the menu, recommend a dish...

    If a girl expected that from me there wouldn't be a second date, because I'd want her to be able to think for herself not have me doing it for her.

    For example, I went on a first date to the cinema with a girl. She expected me to pick the film (when I asked her answer was "oh, I don't mind"), when asked if she wanted popcorn or a drink her answer was "I don't know, what are you getting?" and when asked about what she though of the movie it was "I don't know, what did you think?". I don't think the girl had a single idea all night.

    On the payment thing, I'd offer (and have no problem paying) but if she didn't at least try to pay I'd be pissed off.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭idunnoutellme


    ye well thats it i dont mind paying once the guy offers to pay and then i would say no its fine i can pay for myself or if i go cinema with a guy and he buys tickets i always make sure i get the sweets and drinks

    '
    I turn up, look great for the date, he should take my jacket off, help me order wine off the menu, recommend a dish...
    /QUOTE]

    If a girl expected that from me there wouldn't be a second date, because I'd want her to be able to think for herself not have me doing it for her.'

    what exactly is wrong with a girl wanting to be treated like that? she'd think the world of you if you did cos men like that are hard to come by and everyone wants one ha ha - maybe take notes???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 375 ✭✭Curlypinkie


    I don't understand why this is so shocking to everybody. It's just what I expect and I don't know why no one reacted on my reasons for this? Maybe I wasn't being clear.
    If a fella asks me on a first date, I shouldn't have to explain to him: look I'm a really generous person and I don't want to be f*cked over any more by thight fellas.
    The treating me to a first dinner/date whatever would be a sort of a test.
    So far it's proven right. I don't know if it's valid every time tho. But I'm still single (Maybe that's why? lol)
    But seriously, this is the way I was raised, I am expecting a certain treatment from men I wouldn't accept less, in fairness if I'm not treated that way I'd rather go on a date with myself ;)


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    i dont go around demanding equality.
    I don't know what to say...Mary Wollstonecraft is turning in her grave as I type..

    You think guys use not offending women as a lame eccuse not to offer to pay on dates?? Jeez, I'm starting to feel sorry for the guys here - damned if you do, damned if you don't!


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    taconnol wrote: »
    I don't know what to say...Mary Wollstonecraft is turning in her grave as I type..

    I've been thinking that since the start of this thread.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭idunnoutellme


    taconnol wrote: »
    I don't know what to say...Mary Wollstonecraft is turning in her grave as I type..

    You think guys use not offending women as a lame eccuse not to offer to pay on dates?? Jeez, I'm starting to feel sorry for the guys here - damned if you do, damned if you don't!

    I dont know ONE girl who wouldnt go out with a guy on a second date BECAUSE HE PAID!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,518 ✭✭✭matrim


    what exactly is wrong with a girl wanting to be treated like that? she'd think the world of you if you did cos men like that are hard to come by and everyone wants one ha ha - maybe take notes???

    It's the expectation of it that would do me. If they asked questions about the stuff fine, i.e. Have you been here before, what's do you think is good? etc, that that would be fine because it can be a two way street. But an expectation of the guy to come in and and straight off start with this wine is good, you should get that etc would annoy me.

    Also you do realise that most guys take the time to try and make sure they also look good for a first date.

    And BTW I have a GF so no need for the notes :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,407 ✭✭✭✭justsomebloke


    I'm starting to see why some irish men give irish women a bad rep.

    Seriously this notion of men paying for everythign comes from a different era where women differnt earn nearly the same as men and were expected to cook and clean after their men.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 375 ✭✭Curlypinkie


    matrim wrote: »
    It's the expectation of it that would do me. If they asked questions about the stuff fine, i.e. Have you been here before, what's do you think is good? etc, that that would be fine because it can be a two way street. But an expectation of the guy to come in and and straight off start with this wine is good, you should get that etc would annoy me.

    Also you do realise that most guys take the time to try and make sure they also look good for a first date.

    And BTW I have a GF so no need for the notes :)

    Look, mine was only a short way of explaining it. Of course I wouldn't sit there like a stone going: you decide, you decide.
    It's those little things, those attention giving moments that are important. Getting me weak at my knees would be in the line of:
    "Look the way you said you loved Italian food? I've booked such and such"
    At the table:
    "I love the thing thing here, i really recommend it"
    And total brownie points are if he stands up when I stand up, if he helps me put on my coat, if he gives me his coat if I happen to think I don't need one and it's cold going to the taxi whatever.

    More scenarious? Or do you get me where I'm coming from? I'm an incurable romantic and this has nothing to do with feminism etc. It's just I want a guy to treat me a cretain way.....

    Oh, and to be "equal" whatever. Same if I asked a guy to a resto, chose venue and so on, it would be me doing the recommendations, tryiong to pick up on hints he'd given me before or so...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 375 ✭✭Curlypinkie


    jsb wrote: »
    I'm starting to see why some irish men give irish women a bad rep.

    Seriously this notion of men paying for everythign comes from a different era where women differnt earn nearly the same as men and were expected to cook and clean after their men.

    I really don't see this as a discussion of paying EVERYTHING all the time for the girl. I see this as a discussion of should a guy pay for the first date or not? And if he doesn't would that be considered cheap?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,407 ✭✭✭✭justsomebloke


    just as a matter of interest curlypinkie are you still single


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 375 ✭✭Curlypinkie


    jsb wrote: »
    just as a matter of interest curlypinkie are you still single

    Haha, yes I did state that in an earlier post on this thread!
    Those fellas on white stallions are few and far between:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    And if he doesn't would that be considered cheap?

    why?

    What are we ment to do anymore?

    Would you like him to expect that you clean up after him? Or wash his clothes?
    You can not pick and choose what old social gender traits that you want to keep. If you want to be considered equal that bloody well act like it.
    Women have fought long and hard for their right to be considered equal and, in this country, are almost there. It also means that you have to accept that men will no longer see women as people who need help, or can not look after themselves


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