Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

tbiggertycome · 31-07-2015 9:36pm

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

That's a good analysis as always. Is there a good basis for believing fennelly will play at this point?

Yes there is in my opinion after talking to a few people close to the camp, not in it mind you, but they reckon he'll make it weather he'll be picked is another thing I suppose. It would be very hard not to pick him.

The team are off this evening up to Kildare (not Carton Hse by the way as Man City are there this weekend) and the work done up there will probably define the team that's picked on Friday.

I've heard a huge amount of positives about certain players form and I would be very encouraged that there could be some outstanding performances from some of the lads if they can maintain their current form in training.

babyjesus14 · 31-07-2015 9:41pm

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Ah just from a few people close to the camp, not in it mind you, but they reckon he'll make it weather he'll be picked is another thing I suppose. It would be very hard not to pick them.

The team are off this evening up to Kildare (not Carton Hse by the way as Man City are there this weekend) and the work done up there will probably define the team that's picked on Friday. I've heard a huge amount of positives about certain players form and I would be very encouraged that there could be some outstanding performances from some of the lads if they can maintain their current form in training.

Can't imagine there is going to be any surprises, Prendergast for Jackie, and if Mick Fennelly makes it it will be as you were for the Leinster final otherwise as we started in the Leinster final.

thinlizzy51 · 31-07-2015 9:42pm

where in kiildare are they staying anybody know

Cornerback1 · 31-07-2015 9:55pm

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Yes there is in my opinion after talking to a few people close to the camp, not in it mind you, but they reckon he'll make it weather he'll be picked is another thing I suppose. It would be very hard not to pick him.

The team are off this evening up to Kildare (not Carton Hse by the way as Man City are there this weekend) and the work done up there will probably define the team that's picked on Friday.

I've heard a huge amount of positives about certain players form and I would be very encouraged that there could be some outstanding performances from some of the lads if they can maintain their current form in training.

Hopefully you're right. Would be happy to see a surprise threw in the forward line - just to mix it up a bit. Semi-finals are there to be won. I'm happy we have the big game experience in CP. To me, that'll count for a lot.

citykat · 31-07-2015 9:56pm

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Ok after all the bluster of the last few pages I'm actually going to back to talking about hurling.

I believe M Fennelly will play and should last the whole match as he's fit enough and hopefully he's touch won't be an issue.

Assuming he's fit I see two solutions to the Jackie issue. BTW if ever there was a game tailor made for Jackie it was a game against this Waterford team as he'd just sit between the half and full lines, he'd mop up all the loose ball and use he's experience to deliver good ball right back on top of the Waterford backs. He'd also be in the right postition to slow down any of the runners coming through with a thunderous shoulder.

Option 1 A straight swap.
Murphy
Murphy, Holden, Pendergast
P Walsh, Joyce, Buckley
Fogarty, M Fennelly
W Walsh, TJ, Larkin
Aylward, Hogan, C Fennelly

This is the most likely as Cody doesn't like to shift lads around too much for one lad missing so I'd be 98% sure this is what we'll see.

Option 2 the only other viable option I can think of that would work
Murphy
Murphy, Holden
Fogarty
P Walsh, Joyce, Buckley
M Fennelly, R Hogan
W Walsh, TJ, Larkin
Aylward, C Fennelly, AN Other

AN Other would be any of J Power, K Kelly, M Kelly, JJ Farrell, M Ruth depending on who's been performing in training.

I think Fogarty would do the job that Jackie would have done. The distribution might not be the same as Jackies but he's spped and strength would be a great asset to combat the runners.

Cant see Richie being moved to FF. He'd be wasted in there trying to mark two men. Has said himself, publicly, that he prefers MF/HF line where he has more space.
Be surprised if Fogarty is moved to the corner with Pender and Robbie Lennon available. The last time he played there (against Dotsy) didn't go too well afair. He's too valuable in MF anyway.
What's the story with Lester? Is he still injured? If Mick doesn't make it, he'll surely be in with a chance.
Given Waterford's defence strategy, I'd say Cody will go with size hence Wally and Power will start.

Charlie69 · 31-07-2015 10:55pm

thinlizzy51 wrote: »

where in kiildare are they staying anybody know

they're at the Osprey Hotel in Naas.

Also think M.Fennelly will start with Prendergast coming in for Jackie. Getting nervous about this one now, a bit worried about Prendergast, needs to be a bit sharper and first touch could be better. Jackie a huge loss.

brookville · 31-07-2015 11:10pm

Could we see fennelly at six and joyce in the corner?usually wouldn't move around players to replace one but who knows,I was suprised to see walter midfield the last day

blackcard · 31-07-2015 11:22pm

brookville wrote: »

Could we see fennelly at six and joyce in the corner?usually wouldn't move around players to replace one but who knows,I was suprised to see walter midfield the last day

Don't think there is any chance of Joyce being played in the corner,
Prendergast will replace Jackie. If there is to be a surprise, my guess would be Chris Bolger being named on the subs bench

tbiggertycome · 01-08-2015 12:25am

citykat wrote: »

Cant see Richie being moved to FF. He'd be wasted in there trying to mark two men. Has said himself, publicly, that he prefers MF/HF line where he has more space.
Be surprised if Fogarty is moved to the corner with Pender and Robbie Lennon available. The last time he played there (against Dotsy) didn't go too well afair. He's too valuable in MF anyway.
What's the story with Lester? Is he still injured? If Mick doesn't make it, he'll surely be in with a chance.
Given Waterford's defence strategy, I'd say Cody will go with size hence Wally and Power will start.

Agreed too be honest I was just filling in the names of the forwards not necessarily where they will play. It would be very unlikely to see Hogan in there FF, like you said HF possibly even dropping back to MF is where he'll roam.

Pender definitely has the upper hand of late replacing Jackie. Lennon I think will be a great addition long-term but this one might be a bit much for him plus I don't think he's as mobile as Pender from the bit I've seen of them.

Lester is hurling well by all accounts and might be in with a chance of a start and I'd say he's chances would increase dramatically if M Fennelly couldn't start.

While I'm a fan of J Power I don't think he's done anything to merit a starting place judging on his performances so far this year and I'd love if he proved me wrong but Wally will definitely start.

Very Bored · 01-08-2015 8:19am

News is Brian Gavin will referee our semi whilst Barry Kelly will referee the other, effectively barring them from refereeing the final. That means the cheat won't referee us this season whatever happens, very happy about that. Gavin is a great referee in my opinion, very fair and lets the game flow.

http://www.hoganstand.com/Hurling/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=241864

Looking at the match itself, I believe its in defence that this will or can be won. If you look at all of Waterford's matches so far, they conceded 1-20 v Cork, 0-21 against Tipperary and 1-19 against Dublin. Those kinds of scores are often enough to win matches. Its just that they scored very well themselves against Cork (3-19) and against Dublin (2-21). Against Tipperary they only scored 0-16 which shows they struggle against a solid, organised defence. Only on very rare days do you win matches scoring that. I can see them having the same problems against us. Also, perhaps oddly, they only kept a clean sheet in terms of goals against Tipp, so I wouldn't worry too much about at least one goal coming. The important thing will be to get that goal early on because if they start having to chase the game they could well lose shape and above all to keep things tight. Things Kilkenny have done time and time again over the years. Also, factor in the pressure. The pressure is on us as favourites, but that's nothing new. This is a young Waterford team trying to succeed where many many other Waterford teams have failed in the past. Namely, to go to an All Ireland, and more importantly to win it, and to beat Kilkenny in a match that really matters. In similar situations in the past, Waterford have cracked, no matter how much of a good year they have been having up until that point. I'm not saying the same will happen again, but there are a lot of reasons to be hopeful.

thinlizzy51 · 01-08-2015 2:34pm

anyone know where in kildare the team are?

Mountainlad · 01-08-2015 3:10pm

Interesting post Very Bored. I don't agree on 'the cheat' or the pressure aspect but we'll leave that aside.

In fairness we've been shipping reasonable scores but scoring a lot ourselves, kind of goes against the whole Waterford are Donegal. The only game we didn't goal was against Tipp, but we still created 2 goal chances, Stephen Bennett was very unlucky to lose his Hurley. I wonder are the forwards generally a bit underestimated?

Any how, on the point about goals conceded we only conceded one goal from play, Corks was a penalty. And more to the point is the lack of goal chances being created. Cork didn't creatte any, Tipp had one and Dublin only had one as well. That's fair going, but the emphasis is on not conceding goals and so as a result space is being conceded further out the field.

The key I think is the change of tactics the last day. Gleeson pushing up and adding to the attack is important because what we learnt against Tipp was you can keep their best forward scoreless and stop them scoring goals, but if you bleed your attack dry you'll still lose. The only way Waterford could still have a say in the championship was to add something up front.

I'd be concerned about the first half where we didn't seem to have the same intensity. I wasn't at the game but I wonder if it was due to trying to get used to the change. I dunno if they changed tactics at half time, or just got used to it but it's that sort of performance that is required. One concern is Darragh Fives fitness, as he was decent but not the man who scored 0-3 points from midfield against Kilkenny two years ago. Understandable given the layoff, hopefully he'll come on for it.

Who's going to mark TJ Reid is another question and indeed where will he play? Cody always changes something, I think it's the root of his genius where other lads rest in their laurels and the never change a winning team, he always looks to deploy his strengths on the other teams weaknesses and he always learns.

A massive challenge ahead.

Very Bored · 01-08-2015 3:59pm

Yeah, watching the Waterford match against Dublin, I felt if ye put in a first half like that against us, we'll be out of sight by half time, that's fact not arrogance. I think the problem ye'll have is that whilst ye are very good at stifling goal opportunities, Kilkenny have the forwards to exploit gaps left further up the field. The likes of Richie Hogan and TJ can point from a good distance out. I don't agree with the idea that Waterford are Donegal though. Even in the defensive part of the field ye have some hurlers who are very exciting to watch, Tadhg De Burca in particular because he especially has the ability to create as well as defend. I think it will be a hard fought match and though I expect us to nick it, for some reason I have a four point differential in my head, I would suggest that those in my own county who think it will be a walk in the park should get their heads out of Match of the Day if they want to be taken seriously talking about hurling.

Charlie69 · 01-08-2015 4:35pm

thinlizzy51 wrote: »

anyone know where in kildare the team are?

Osprey Hotel in Naas

Charlie69 · 01-08-2015 4:43pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

Interesting post Very Bored. I don't agree on 'the cheat' or the pressure aspect but we'll leave that aside.

In fairness we've been shipping reasonable scores but scoring a lot ourselves, kind of goes against the whole Waterford are Donegal. The only game we didn't goal was against Tipp, but we still created 2 goal chances, Stephen Bennett was very unlucky to lose his Hurley. I wonder are the forwards generally a bit underestimated?

Any how, on the point about goals conceded we only conceded one goal from play, Corks was a penalty. And more to the point is the lack of goal chances being created. Cork didn't creatte any, Tipp had one and Dublin only had one as well. That's fair going, but the emphasis is on not conceding goals and so as a result space is being conceded further out the field.

The key I think is the change of tactics the last day. Gleeson pushing up and adding to the attack is important because what we learnt against Tipp was you can keep their best forward scoreless and stop them scoring goals, but if you bleed your attack dry you'll still lose. The only way Waterford could still have a say in the championship was to add something up front.

I'd be concerned about the first half where we didn't seem to have the same intensity. I wasn't at the game but I wonder if it was due to trying to get used to the change. I dunno if they changed tactics at half time, or just got used to it but it's that sort of performance that is required. One concern is Darragh Fives fitness, as he was decent but not the man who scored 0-3 points from midfield against Kilkenny two years ago. Understandable given the layoff, hopefully he'll come on for it.

Who's going to mark TJ Reid is another question and indeed where will he play? Cody always changes something, I think it's the root of his genius where other lads rest in their laurels and the never change a winning team, he always looks to deploy his strengths on the other teams weaknesses and he always learns.

A massive challenge ahead.

Personally I'm baffled by the whole Waterford are Donegal of hurling tbh, I've really enjoyed Waterford's performances this year in both league and championship and find myself looking forward to their games.

I think the performance against Tipp was an aberration and one they have learned an awful lot from.

What a hurler Gleeson is btw, big,strong, athletic, good in the air... awesome talent

citykat · 01-08-2015 9:07pm

Charlie69 wrote: »

Personally I'm baffled by the whole Waterford are Donegal of hurling tbh, I've really enjoyed Waterford's performances this year in both league and championship and find myself looking forward to their games.

I think the performance against Tipp was an aberration and one they have learned an awful lot from.

What a hurler Gleeson is btw, big,strong, athletic, good in the air... awesome talent

Agree on Waterford. They defend in droves but still counter well. They're incredibly hard working and it's paid dividends this year.
Agree on Gleeson but he's prone to stupidity. The last day he threw the ball at an opponent who wanted to take a line ball. He didn't get a card as neither the ref nor the linesman saw it.

thinlizzy51 · 01-08-2015 10:21pm

agree Waterford have some very good players.bur the key to beating teams who play their system is to get ahead early. then that forces them to change and knocks their belief. if they get ahead I could see them playing 8 or more at the back.for me they are like Ulster gaa teams.they have taken clares way of playing and gone a step further.just like donegal took tyrones game.can see them only playing dan inside.

blackcard · 01-08-2015 10:28pm

thinlizzy51 wrote: »

agree Waterford have some very good players.bur the key to beating teams who play their system is to get ahead early. then that forces them to change and knocks their belief. if they get ahead I could see them playing 8 or more at the back.for me they are like Ulster gaa teams.they have taken clares way of playing and gone a step further.just like donegal took tyrones game.can see them only playing dan inside.

Dan would be a bit of a shock even though he looks like he is itching to cross the white line

brookville · 01-08-2015 10:30pm

Gleeson is a class hurler alright who's still learning but has a habit of hitting the holy mary shots,looks great when it works out,I think it'll be important for us to keep the free count down as a lot of there scores comes from maurice who infairness to him has being very accurate,so what do we think the team will be?shane at 4 for jackie,mick fennelly and fogarty midfield,walter,richie,colin,ger,tj,larkin,still a formidable looking team without power and jackie,the bench is a bit light alright but cover in all areas granted not much experience with some of them,kennedy and lennon at the backs rice and lester midfield john power,mark and kevin kelly up front

Very Bored · 01-08-2015 10:32pm

thinlizzy51 wrote: »

agree Waterford have some very good players.bur the key to beating teams who play their system is to get ahead early. then that forces them to change and knocks their belief. if they get ahead I could see them playing 8 or more at the back.for me they are like Ulster gaa teams.they have taken clares way of playing and gone a step further.just like donegal took tyrones game.can see them only playing dan inside.

They're not boring though. From what I've heard, because I hardly ever watch football, Donegal are chronic to watch. Waterford aren't. Yes, they defend in droves, but they create too. Also, because of the nature of hurling being high scoring against football's nature of being relatively low scoring, and the huge difference in speed between the two sports, you simply can't win a hurling match by relying almost exclusively on defending. If a team went out concentrating almost 100% on defence, they'd get beaten off the park by any half decent outfit because the nature of hurling just doesn't suit that style of play.

allthedoyles · 01-08-2015 10:46pm

Very Bored wrote: »

They're not boring though. From what I've heard, because I hardly ever watch football, Donegal are chronic to watch. Waterford aren't. Yes, they defend in droves, but they create too. Also, because of the nature of hurling being high scoring against football's nature of being relatively low scoring, and the huge difference in speed between the two sports, you simply can't win a hurling match by relying almost exclusively on defending. If a team went out concentrating almost 100% on defence, they'd get beaten off the park by any half decent outfit because the nature of hurling just doesn't suit that style of play.

Well Donegal won easily in 2nd half tonight cos they changed tactics and went with direct football.
I've seen some hurling matches in the Championship recently and players tapping the ball around to each other in the half-back line .

This is not going to win matches and KK can never be accused of tapping the ball to each other in that way , but other teams do it a lot .

i've often screamed at the TV for players to pull on the ground and let fly , as I hate seeing players doing that and going on solo runs and eventually losing the ball .

Very Bored · 01-08-2015 11:26pm

allthedoyles wrote: »

Well Donegal won easily in 2nd half tonight cos they changed tactics and went with direct football.
I've seen some hurling matches in the Championship recently and players tapping the ball around to each other in the half-back line .

This is not going to win matches and KK can never be accused of tapping the ball to each other in that way , but other teams do it a lot .

i've often screamed at the TV for players to pull on the ground and let fly , as I hate seeing players doing that and going on solo runs and eventually losing the ball .

Some do it, but tapping the ball around is more often the sign of a crap team that can't close games out any other way and against the big boys it isn't going to do you any favours because they have the talent to either intercept or take the ball away.

thinlizzy51 · 02-08-2015 12:05am

championship has been very poor so far.our game v galway and cork v clare have been decent. tactics in my opinion have been the main cause of this.have to say I agree with everything tom ryan has been writing about in the mail.

HatchetMan7 · 02-08-2015 8:20am

Hurling at its core is about improvisation whether that's long ball short ball or anything in between. The best type of hurling is the type of hurling that works and that's different for every team as their suited to different styles.

savannahkat · 03-08-2015 12:36pm

Hurling at it's core is man against man, the ability to win dirty ball, to win your own ball to take on and legitimately beat your own direct opponent. Systems come and they go (Cork 2004/2006 Clare 2013) and no doubt the Waterford 2015 system will remain until the first loss of consequence then all will change again for them. If hurling had continued on the path adopted by Cork back then we would be playing a modified form of hockey at this stage. I do not have to prove this. Brian Cody has done that for me over the past sixteen years.

willietherock · 03-08-2015 12:57pm

savannahkat wrote: »

Hurling at it's core is man against man, the ability to win dirty ball, to win your own ball to take on and legitimately beat your own direct opponent. Systems come and they go (Cork 2004/2006 Clare 2013) and no doubt the Waterford 2015 system will remain until the first loss of consequence then all will change again for them. If hurling had continued on the path adopted by Cork back then we would be playing a modified form of hockey at this stage. I do not have to prove this. Brian Cody has done that for me over the past sixteen years.

One system that hasn't come or gone is KK's defensive system they've employed since 06. But KK being KK like to pretend there above such things.

redlead · 03-08-2015 1:09pm

@savannahcat - Kilkenny was the first hurling team to really employ the "hunting in packs" defensive tactic copied from the Tyrone footballers. It was a master stroke by Cody as no hurling team had really come across it and we just take it for granted now. Hurling is evolving all the time and KK is to fore of it. You can fantasise all you want about the notion of kilkenny going out and playing 15 on 15 attacking hurling without much tactics, but it's a very simplistic and incorrect view to take.

dastardly00 · 03-08-2015 1:24pm

thinlizzy51 wrote: »

championship has been very poor so far.our game v galway and cork v clare have been decent. tactics in my opinion have been the main cause of this.have to say I agree with everything tom ryan has been writing about in the mail.

The Clare-Cork game was actually poor as well. 37 wides in total if I remember correctly, and there wasn't a hint of a goal being scored. I was pulling my hair out while sitting in the stand. Both teams were shooting from far out because they had no forwards closer to the goal, or the opposition had loads of defenders behind the ball. It was awful to watch

thinlizzy51 · 03-08-2015 2:41pm

dastardly. I said decent not gr8t
I agree the games have been of poor standard and brutal from a neutrals point of view.tipp v waterford cork v clare and no sign of a goal. if people like watching these type of games (fair enough) but there not for me.as for kk playing defensive tactics. yes kk defenders defend .yes midfielders cover back.but never have ii seen them start with 7 backs.hunting in packs is not a defensive system. all over the pitch kk do it.its called workrate

Cornerback1 · 03-08-2015 3:40pm

thinlizzy51 wrote: »

dastardly. I said decent not gr8t
I agree the games have been of poor standard and brutal from a neutrals point of view.tipp v waterford cork v clare and no sign of a goal. if people like watching these type of games (fair enough) but there not for me.as for kk playing defensive tactics. yes kk defenders defend .yes midfielders cover back.but never have ii seen them start with 7 backs.hunting in packs is not a defensive system. all over the pitch kk do it.its called workrate

Totally agree. KK put in a full on shift in every game. That's the way they play - it's not a defensive system. It's hard work. How they train is how they play. The main point of all this is it's for the team. That's BC's philosophy - everything must be for the benefit of the team. For me, that's what carries KK over the line in a lot of their games.

savannahkat · 03-08-2015 3:44pm

redlead wrote: »

@savannahcat - Kilkenny was the first hurling team to really employ the "hunting in packs" defensive tactic copied from the Tyrone footballers. It was a master stroke by Cody as no hurling team had really come across it and we just take it for granted now. Hurling is evolving all the time and KK is to fore of it. You can fantasise all you want about the notion of kilkenny going out and playing 15 on 15 attacking hurling without much tactics, but it's a very simplistic and incorrect view to take.

Name one player on the Kilkenny team who cannot win their own dirty ball. That is the major tactic employed by Brian Cody, everything else is secondary. You can blather on about Kilkenny this, or Kilkenny that, but that is the simple truth about Cody's selections and it is the first amongst all qualities Brian looks for in his players. f you cannot do it you are dropped it is as simple as that.

20silkcut · 03-08-2015 5:50pm

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Totally agree. KK put in a full on shift in every game. That's the way they play - it's not a defensive system. It's hard work. How they train is how they play. The main point of all this is it's for the team. That's BC's philosophy - everything must be for the benefit of the team. For me, that's what carries KK over the line in a lot of their games.

Don't agree with this at all. In the drawn game and the replay last year Kk left everything on the field yet they were two very different games because Kk changed their tactics.

Kk are a very tactical team

redlead · 03-08-2015 6:10pm

20silkcut wrote: »

Don't agree with this at all. In the drawn game and the replay last year Kk left everything on the field yet they were two very different games because Kk changed their tactics.

Kk are a very tactical team

I don't think some posters here really understand what tactics are. It seems to be a dirty word on this thread and I don't know why. It's an integral part of all modern sports.

randd1 · 03-08-2015 6:35pm

redlead wrote: »

I don't think some posters here really understand what tactics are. It seems to be a dirty word on this thread and I don't know why. It's an integral part of all modern sports.

Agreed. Tactics, and the re-invention and response to them, are the reason Cody is the greatest manager the game has ever seen, he's rarely out-foxed.

Anybody who thinks Kilkenny don't do tactics is mad. It's because we do them better than anyone that's led to as many titles as we have. Some of the strokes our management teams have pulled over he years are just genius, and have completely bamboozled the opposition at times.

It's great to have men with the hurling nous and intelligence to make the subtle and bold tweaks, hard calls and game plans on the sideline that we have.

pat 22 · 03-08-2015 7:10pm

The bottom line is Waterford are a very good young team, anyone think any different are fooling themselves. I'm sure the'll give us a serious game on Sunday, we could do with a full panel to pick from. Jackie,Richie power and M Fennelly will b a big loss, its time some of the other lads that are on the panel with a few yrs now started showing a bit more than they have being doing. 50/50 match I reckon, but would b hoping our forwards will cause them alot of bother, I think that's where the winning of this game is. R hogan , Larkin , Tj all capable of doing alot of damage.

danganabu · 04-08-2015 1:58pm

pat 22 wrote: »

The bottom line is Waterford are a very good young team, anyone think any different are fooling themselves. I'm sure the'll give us a serious game on Sunday, we could do with a full panel to pick from. Jackie,Richie power and M Fennelly will b a big loss, its time some of the other lads that are on the panel with a few yrs now started showing a bit more than they have being doing. 50/50 match I reckon, but would b hoping our forwards will cause them alot of bother, I think that's where the winning of this game is. R hogan , Larkin , Tj all capable of doing alot of damage.

Thats what Derek McGrath has spun the media and they have lapped it up, but as this article shows its all just spin http://thestar.ie/busting-myth-of-waterford-kids/

Mountainlad · 04-08-2015 2:09pm

danganabu wrote: »

Thats what Derek McGrath has spun the media and they have lapped it up, but as this article shows its all just spin http://thestar.ie/busting-myth-of-waterford-kids/

I pointed out to him that he is wrong on the average ages. Waterford is 23.5, obviously the mistake was that he read it wrong and got 25.3. 2 years younger than Kilkennys average age, which is a significant margin for an average age. Not to mention it was only done for starting teams so the fact that, Stephen Bennett (19), Patrick Curran (19) and Tom Devine (20) weren't allowed for would detract considerably from the case Stapleton made.

It's a pity about the glaring oversight, as it was quite a valid one he made about there being 10 from the starting team v Cork last year. In fact, 11 started v Wexford and three of the players (Barron, Shanahan and Philip Mahony) were all on the panel but injured. 17/20 of the players used in matches were on the panel last year, so it rubbishes the medias assertion that McGrath has overseen a panel overhaul. But to be fair, don't think Derek is the one peddling that. It's just lazy journalism.

dastardly00 · 04-08-2015 4:06pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

I pointed out to him that he is wrong on the average ages. Waterford is 23.5, obviously the mistake was that he read it wrong and got 25.3. 2 years younger than Kilkennys average age, which is a significant margin for an average age. Not to mention it was only done for starting teams so the fact that, Stephen Bennett (19), Patrick Curran (19) and Tom Devine (20) weren't allowed for would detract considerably from the case Stapleton made.

It's a pity about the glaring oversight, as it was quite a valid one he made about there being 10 from the starting team v Cork last year. In fact, 11 started v Wexford and three of the players (Barron, Shanahan and Philip Mahony) were all on the panel but injured. 17/20 of the players used in matches were on the panel last year, so it rubbishes the medias assertion that McGrath has overseen a panel overhaul. But to be fair, don't think Derek is the one peddling that. It's just lazy journalism.

Great stuff Mountainlad! Did Shane Stapleton reply back to you?

Mountainlad · 04-08-2015 6:18pm

dastardly00 wrote: »

Great stuff Mountainlad! Did Shane Stapleton reply back to you?

Yeah he said he used the ages from the official programme which is what I was doing too. I've checked it a few times and even got a friend to do it as well, he was correct with Galways average age alright I didn't bother checking the rest.

But even from a logical point of view, Callanan, Donnellan, Smyth and Tannian are all around 30 or older. Brick at 32 is the only player around or over 30 (Moran is 28) on the Waterford team so they'd have to be younger.

3ships · 04-08-2015 7:11pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

Yeah he said he used the ages from the official programme which is what I was doing too. I've checked it a few times and even got a friend to do it as well, he was correct with Galways average age alright I didn't bother checking the rest.

But even from a logical point of view, Callanan, Donnellan, Smyth and Tannian are all around 30 or older. Brick at 32 is the only player around or over 30 (Moran is 28) on the Waterford team so they'd have to be younger.

Checked it myself and the average for the last day was 23.5 starting and 22.2 including subs. Surprised he got that wrong. It is easy to work out if take 25 as base level Brick 32 canceled out by Shane Bennett 18, Moran 28 by Jake 22 and Shane Fives 26 cancelled by SOK 24. All other players are 25 and younger.

Comerman · 04-08-2015 8:11pm

Any truth in the rumour that Richie Hogan suffered back damage in Carlton House??

Charlie69 · 04-08-2015 8:19pm

Comerman wrote: »

Any truth in the rumour that Richie Hogan suffered back damage in Carlton House??

Apparently Richie struggling badly with a back injury and is doubtful for Sunday's game. We're in big trouble if he doesn't make it.

I expect him to play but apparently if the game was tomorrow he'd have no chance.

dastardly00 · 04-08-2015 8:32pm

Charlie69 wrote: »

Apparently Richie struggling badly with a back injury and is doubtful for Sunday's game. We're in big trouble if he doesn't make it.

I expect him to play but apparently if the game was tomorrow he'd have no chance.

Oh fúck!!

Mountainlad · 04-08-2015 8:35pm

3ships wrote: »

Checked it myself and the average for the last day was 23.5 starting and 22.2 including subs. Surprised he got that wrong. It is easy to work out if take 25 as base level Brick 32 canceled out by Shane Bennett 18, Moran 28 by Jake 22 and Shane Fives 26 cancelled by SOK 24. All other players are 25 and younger.

Yeah the problem with things like this is people read them and obviously expect them to be right and then take it for granted. That's how things like the lazy idea that McGrath is working with a completely new team get perpetuated as well (which at least Stapleton does address). Pundit after pundit just recycling the same thing without actually researching it.

No denying Waterford are a young team, but there's plenty of experience there too.

Mountainlad · 04-08-2015 8:37pm

Charlie69 wrote: »

Apparently Richie struggling badly with a back injury and is doubtful for Sunday's game. We're in big trouble if he doesn't make it.

I expect him to play but apparently if the game was tomorrow he'd have no chance.

As much as it would aid our chances, I'd rather see him play. Top class player with a great attitude.

donnem33 · 04-08-2015 8:41pm

Charlie69 wrote: »

Apparently Richie struggling badly with a back injury and is doubtful for Sunday's game. We're in big trouble if he doesn't make it.

I expect him to play but apparently if the game was tomorrow he'd have no chance.

i hope hes ok!! would love to see both teams at full tilt..we might finally get a decent match this year!!

Charlie69 · 04-08-2015 8:44pm

From what I hear he probably will start as he's so important to the team but won't be 100% which is a real worry.

Kilkennyfella · 04-08-2015 10:06pm

Too many niggles and injuries lads. With a fully fit squad I think we would beat Waterford by 4/5 points but now I have to say I'm not confident at all.

brookville · 04-08-2015 10:14pm

Stories and rumours usually spiral out of control,won't be a word about it friday when the team is announced,every player picks up knocks and I'm sure richie will be okay come sunday

Charlie69 · 04-08-2015 10:15pm

Kilkennyfella wrote: »

Too many niggles and injuries lads. With a fully fit squad I think we would beat Waterford by 4/5 points but now I have to say I'm not confident at all.

Yeah could any team survive the loss of Richie Hogan, Richie Power, Michael Fennelly and Jackie Tyrell. All huge players and real leaders of this team. We seem to have been plagued with injuries for a while now.

Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

Comments