M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

cgcsb · 03-07-2019 4:33pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I'll be here in some guise in 2028 still waiting for the sod turning, that'll be a full 20 years after the thread was started.

Dublin's metro scheme is 46 years old now.

Cork Trucker · 03-07-2019 4:42pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Dublin's metro scheme is 46 years old now.

says it all really

Isambard · 03-07-2019 7:26pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I'll be here in some guise in 2028 still waiting for the sod turning, that'll be a full 20 years after the thread was started.

I'll be 73.... will need a blue badge before it's finished, or a headstone.

JamesBond2010 · 03-07-2019 10:24pm

Isambard wrote: »

I'll be 73.... will need a blue badge before it's finished, or a headstone.

Ya @ this stage we be old men or dead before the motorway is completed

Cork Trucker · 03-07-2019 11:34pm

Isambard wrote: »

I'll be 73.... will need a blue badge before it's finished, or a headstone.

I’ll be a few decades younger but long gone out of this game. You can get the blue badge at any age, I’ll need one myself if that bloody road isn’t built, my knees are on the way out.

Cork Trucker · 03-07-2019 11:35pm

JamesBond2010 wrote: »

Ya @ this stage we be old men or dead before the motorway is completed

My grandchildren (I have none yet) will have grandchildren and this road won’t be done

Cork Trucker · 04-07-2019 8:54am

The Green Party are at it yet again

https://www.thecork.ie/2019/07/03/greens-call-for-a-shift-from-a-car-first-approach-in-the-how-the-ndp-affects-the-region/

hans aus dtschl · 04-07-2019 9:16am

Cork Trucker wrote: »

The Green Party are at it yet again

https://www.thecork.ie/2019/07/03/greens-call-for-a-shift-from-a-car-first-approach-in-the-how-the-ndp-affects-the-region/

I particularly don't like how they discuss being able to fund rail/bus/active transport by defunding road.

We should fund rail/bus/active transport now, immediately, regardless what else we do. Roads have nothing whatsoever to do with that discussion.

And that €230m for the cycle infrastructure is a nonsense number, plucked out of the ar5e during creation of CMATS. And it includes the Cork-Midleton greenway, which the greens are against.

So so many issues with that article.

It feels to me as though the M20 is semi-permanently in the sights of everyone who doesn't use the corridor, as though it's some kind of extravagant white elephant project.

Isambard · 04-07-2019 9:44am

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I particularly don't like how they discuss being able to fund rail/bus/active transport by defunding road.

We should fund rail/bus/active transport now, immediately, regardless what else we do. Roads have nothing whatsoever to do with that discussion.

And that €230m for the cycle infrastructure is a nonsense number, plucked out of the ar5e during creation of CMATS. And it includes the Cork-Midleton greenway, which the greens are against.

So so many issues with that article.

It feels to me as though the M20 is semi-permanently in the sights of everyone who doesn't use the corridor, as though it's some kind of extravagant white elephant project.

I'd have some sympathy with the Green philosophy. In the past 120 years or so, the motor vehicle has pretty much destroyed the planet. In the long term, public transport has to become the solution, make it free and make the car expensive would be the way to go. However , we are where we are and a short term solution to people dying is to build the M20 asap

BelfastVanMan · 04-07-2019 9:54am

Isambard wrote: »

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I particularly don't like how they discuss being able to fund rail/bus/active transport by defunding road.

We should fund rail/bus/active transport now, immediately, regardless what else we do. Roads have nothing whatsoever to do with that discussion.

And that €230m for the cycle infrastructure is a nonsense number, plucked out of the ar5e during creation of CMATS. And it includes the Cork-Midleton greenway, which the greens are against.

So so many issues with that article.

It feels to me as though the M20 is semi-permanently in the sights of everyone who doesn't use the corridor, as though it's some kind of extravagant white elephant project.

I'd have some sympathy with the Green philosophy. In the past 120 years or so, the motor vehicle has pretty much destroyed the planet. In the long term, public transport has to become the solution, make it free and make the car expensive would be the way to go. However , we are where we are and a short term solution to people dying is to build the M20 asap

Nonsense.

People still need private vehicles too...buses are not the answer for everyone, free or not.

Sam Russell · 04-07-2019 10:00am

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

Nonsense.

People still need private vehicles too...buses are not the answer for everyone, free or not.

If the increase in bus use is significant, the congestion will be reduced, making it a win for those that use the free buses and a win for those that must use a car.

One bus can carry the number of people in more than 60 cars. A car is approximately 4 metres long and a bus 10 metres long, so for every bus, 200 metres of congestion could be saved.

It does not take a lot of people to choose the bus to make a huge difference.

Isambard · 04-07-2019 10:06am

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

Nonsense.

People still need private vehicles too...buses are not the answer for everyone, free or not.

I advocated nothing of the sort. Read the post before declaring it nonsense.

hans aus dtschl · 04-07-2019 10:18am

Isambard wrote: »

I advocated nothing of the sort. Read the post before declaring it nonsense.

We don't live in a utopia, and we all accept that some level of private transport use is necessary. Especially in remote parts of North Cork.

M20 end-to-end passengers will have a better option by bus when the road is upgraded because the times will be more dependable. Potentially, it'll start becoming more dependable by bus than car as the congestion builds up at both cities.

cgcsb · 04-07-2019 10:22am

The green party are also opposed to public transport and cycling though, when it conflicts with the greed of their constituents.

Sam Russell · 04-07-2019 10:59am

Mod: Can we leave discussion of the Green Party to the politics forum where they might be able to answer back. It was not the GP that did not build the M20 when it should have been built. I think Michael Noonan had a finger in that pie.

marno21 · 04-07-2019 11:02am

Sam Russell wrote: »

Mod: Can we leave discussion of the Green Party to the politics forum where they might be able to answer back. It was not the GP that did not build the M20 when it should have been built. I think Michael Noonan had a finger in that pie.

Indeed, and thankfully this individual has no input on national planning matters.

Best thing for this crap is the next time people you know are on about the (lack of) M20, make sure they are aware of the Green Party's views no matter now much the person cares about the environment or climate change.

Cork Trucker · 04-07-2019 11:44am

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think Michael Noonan had a finger in that pie.

Michael Noonan knows all about pies (in the face) :pac:

Are the Green Party on this site over in the politics forum? If so I didn’t know that.

Sam Russell · 04-07-2019 11:52am

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Michael Noonan knows all about pies (in the face) :pac:

Are the Green Party on this site over in the politics forum? If so I didn’t know that.

Mod:
No, but discussion of political parties does not belong here.

By the way, do not discuss Mod instructions on thread. PM or report post function.

04-07-2019 12:39pm

Isambard wrote: »

I'd have some sympathy with the Green philosophy. In the past 120 years or so, the motor vehicle has pretty much destroyed the planet. In the long term, public transport has to become the solution, make it free and make the car expensive would be the way to go. However , we are where we are and a short term solution to people dying is to build the M20 asap

Wouldn't a better short term solution be to reduce the speed limit? Surely that alone would achieve lives saved?

Isambard · 04-07-2019 12:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Wouldn't a better short term solution be to reduce the speed limit? Surely that alone would achieve lives saved?

If it was monitored. We have an odd habit of putting speed checks in open countryside when it's in urban and suburban areas where speed most needs to be reduced.

04-07-2019 12:54pm

Well if we're talking about short term solutions to save lives seems a lot cheaper, faster and easier to do than building the M20.

marno21 · 04-07-2019 1:05pm

Speed limit has been reduced on the N20 eg Ballybeg bends and hospital junction at Mallow

Cork Trucker · 04-07-2019 1:22pm

marno21 wrote: »

Speed limit has been reduced on the N20 eg Ballybeg bends and hospital junction at Mallow

Been a while since i was out that way, what have they been reduced to? 60km/h?

hans aus dtschl · 04-07-2019 3:51pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well if we're talking about short term solutions to save lives seems a lot cheaper, faster and easier to do than building the M20.

I agree that speed reduction and enforcement are good short-term measures but there's only so far you can reasonably go with that strategy too. For instance, if you slow the N20 down further, more people will simply join me rat-running on the R513. If you reduce the speeds there, we'll all rat-run elsewhere. What's needed is the M20.

In a dream scenario also commuter rail from Charleville to Dooradoyle and on to Limerick.

KELTICKNIGHTT · 04-07-2019 4:22pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I agree that speed reduction and enforcement are good short-term measures but there's only so far you can reasonably go with that strategy too. For instance, if you slow the N20 down further, more people will simply join me rat-running on the R513. If you reduce the speeds there, we'll all rat-run elsewhere. What's needed is the M20.

In a dream scenario also commuter rail from Charleville to Dooradoyle and on to Limerick.

Maybe make train tickets more reasonable as expensive.would help also.
N20 needs to be a motorway. Second and third biggest city's in Ireland.
There a hugh amount of commercial vehicles on n20 every days.

Isambard · 04-07-2019 4:57pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I agree that speed reduction and enforcement are good short-term measures but there's only so far you can reasonably go with that strategy too. For instance, if you slow the N20 down further, more people will simply join me rat-running on the R513. If you reduce the speeds there, we'll all rat-run elsewhere. What's needed is the M20.

In a dream scenario also commuter rail from Charleville to Dooradoyle and on to Limerick.

an hourly stopping train via Limerick Junction, to Limerick, with extra stations and connecting at the junction with a proper service to Waterford would be of far greater value, but you digress :-)

Reputable Rog · 04-07-2019 5:09pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wouldn't a better short term solution be to reduce the speed limit? Surely that alone would achieve lives saved?

It couldn't possibly move any slower than at present. It can take over 30 minutes to get from Mallow to Buttevant, a distance of 12km.

KELTICKNIGHTT · 04-07-2019 5:11pm

Isambard wrote: »

an hourly stopping train via Limerick Junction, to Limerick, with extra stations and connecting at the junction with a proper service to Waterford would be of far greater value, but you digress :-)

M20 motorway

prunudo · 04-07-2019 6:06pm

If anything M20 will benefit the environment and green agenda. How is it good to have traffic stuck in the villages and towns along the n20. By opening up a Cork-Limerick motorway you're encouraging express bus services along the route similar to what happens between Dublin and Galway since the M6 was completed.
It also makes it more efficient to transport goods between the 2 cities as the journey times will reduce but if you were to believe the green brigade, motorways are only for cars.

Cookiemunster · 04-07-2019 6:38pm

Isambard wrote: »

an hourly stopping train via Limerick Junction, to Limerick, with extra stations and connecting at the junction with a proper service to Waterford would be of far greater value, but you digress :-)

And how will this train get people to where they work in Raheen, Castletroy, Annacotty or even Shannon? Most using the current N20 aren't going city to city and aren't heading to the city centers. Your idea will simply lead to more empty loss making trains.

Isambard · 04-07-2019 7:14pm

it's not my idea, it's my rebuttal of the idea to re-open the direct line.

The M20 motorway would be of no use at all to people heading for the Lim Jnc /Tipperary area.

The places you list can be served by bus for the handful of passengers likely from Charleville.

I do wish people would read the posts.

KELTICKNIGHTT · 04-07-2019 8:21pm

Isambard wrote: »

it's not my idea, it's my rebuttal of the idea to re-open the direct line.

The M20 motorway would be of no use at all to people heading for the Lim Jnc /Tipperary area.

The places you list can be served by bus for the handful of passengers likely from Charleville.

I do wish people would read the posts.

No.it doesn't
There a huge amount of commercial traffic on n20. No bus or train going to help.

Its cheaper for me to have a car with insurance and tax and fuel added in than take the bus. That's a very very sad statement of our so called transport system.
I know many people who have to drive n20 every day in commercial vehicles and also in cars.
There is no way will transport system work for major of users of n20.

Plus it's a crap road in bad weather . Look at m8 or m7 .how its help everyone.

This answer of bus or train isn't going to work for everyone even if they drop tickets prices .And we know they wont.
As a regular user of n20 a motorway is needed.
Many users of n20 I know say the same and sick of excuses of why it's not built yet.

If you dont agree with a m20 motorway being built then your in a minority because there a huge amount of people who are waiting decades.

The citys will grow and m20 motorway will be a lot safer then it currently is in many ways.

I use to have from limerick to cork years ago and it bad road then .its changed very little in 20 years and today I'm driving opposite direction. I have several stops on the way so no bus or train will work for me as I use equipment for work.

Isambard · 04-07-2019 8:50pm

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

No.it doesn't
There a huge amount of commercial traffic on n20. No bus or train going to help.

Its cheaper for me to have a car with insurance and tax and fuel added in than take the bus. That's a very very sad statement of our so called transport system.
I know many people who have to drive n20 every day in commercial vehicles and also in cars.
There is no way will transport system work for major of users of n20.

Plus it's a crap road in bad weather . Look at m8 or m7 .how its help everyone.

This answer of bus or train isn't going to work for everyone even if they drop tickets prices .And we know they wont.
As a regular user of n20 a motorway is needed.
Many users of n20 I know say the same and sick of excuses of why it's not built yet.

If you dont agree with a m20 motorway being built then your in a minority because there a huge amount of people who are waiting decades.

The citys will grow and m20 motorway will be a lot safer then it currently is in many ways.

I use to have from limerick to cork years ago and it bad road then .its changed very little in 20 years and today I'm driving opposite direction. I have several stops on the way so no bus or train will work for me as I use equipment for work.

again I wish people would read the posts, you are totally misrepresenting me.

KELTICKNIGHTT · 04-07-2019 10:54pm

Isambard wrote: »

again I wish people would read the posts, you are totally misrepresenting me.

Your bit about being no use to limerick junction and tipperary and about Charlieville served by a bus .
Not everyone coming to and from charleville.
Its cork to limerick as whole it's for.
Why you on about limerick junction and tipp.thats way off other direction.
They decided go n20 route.

AugustusMinimus · 05-07-2019 12:06am

Build a new train line between Cork and Limerick and you’ll see numbers like using the Limerick Galway service.

Limerick74 · 05-07-2019 7:51am

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Build a new train line between Cork and Limerick and you’ll see numbers like using the Limerick Galway service.

Surprisingly there is a queue of students out the door of Limerick Station every Friday for the train to Galway. Quieter other times I’m sure.

hans aus dtschl · 05-07-2019 8:23am

We digress, but Dooradoyle could/should be better linked than just by road.

Meantime, the M20 will improve bus times, as others have said.

Isambard · 05-07-2019 8:36am

quoting myself "However , we are where we are and a short term solution to people dying is to build the M20 asap"
which bit do people not understand?

Bass Reeves · 05-07-2019 9:04am

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Build a new train line between Cork and Limerick and you’ll see numbers like using the Limerick Galway service.

Along with PPARs, and voting machine's a huge waste of exchequer funds. Only used by students and OAP's it is heavily subsidized. Busses on the motorway would do the same job as they do on the M7.
If the N 20 option is used rather than a ring road around county Limerick via Cahir it will revolution the Cork to Galway corridor. Cork to Galway will be a sub two hour journey. When you add in the Foynes Port access road you have a complete economic area with a viable port and airport right in the center of it.

Because of out population density and urban sprawl ( and in an ideal situation we would not start here) Busses are much more efficient transport system than trains especially adding in the journey time on the Limerick Galway route. The ability of the private sector to deliver commercial bus routes to demand is a huge advantage of buses over rail as a transfer system in Ireland

Limerick74 · 08-07-2019 1:58pm

https://www.live95fm.ie/news/disagreement-over-whether-m20-project-is-the-way-f/

Cork Trucker · 08-07-2019 2:02pm

Limerick74 wrote: »

https://www.live95fm.ie/news/disagreement-over-whether-m20-project-is-the-way-f/

The road has to go ahead,and along the N20 corridor very simple. worrying times now between this, the Dunkettle Interchange and the M28.

prunudo · 08-07-2019 2:15pm

Since when has Eamon Ryan been the go to expert on infrastructure projects. For the last 6 months I've heard him on various radio shows discussing various projects and each time he wants them either cancelled or put back to the drawing board. Always throwing up various problems but never actually providing realistic alternatives.

Baldilocks · 08-07-2019 10:43pm

this is an unfortunate side effect of the protest vote that has given the greens some many council seats.

I am green thinking, (reduced my plastic wrapped purchases, use a wormery, pick up the 3 for sea everytime I'm on a fresh or saltwater) but there is no way that I would vote green. The current crop of green-atics have confused their passion for their position with fact.

Rail is not really a viable option in Ireland - our population density is far too low for it to be sustainable. The fact driving from Cork to Dublin is cheaper and faster than the train is proof enough for me that rail will never work on the west coast.

Bass Reeves · 09-07-2019 7:34am

Baldilocks wrote: »

this is an unfortunate side effect of the protest vote that has given the greens some many council seats.

I am green thinking, (reduced my plastic wrapped purchases, use a wormery, pick up the 3 for sea everytime I'm on a fresh or saltwater) but there is no way that I would vote green. The current crop of green-atics have confused their passion for their position with fact.

Rail is not really a viable option in Ireland - our population density is far too low for it to be sustainable. The fact driving from Cork to Dublin is cheaper and faster than the train is proof enough for me that rail will never work on the west coast.

The last time the greens were in power they changed the car tax rules. We ended up with a situation where pre 2008 cars are cruified by car tax and the revenue from car tax on new car has diminished.As well these diesel cars are now considered a liability pollution wise.

L1011 · 09-07-2019 8:57am

Ryan also became a useful idiot for rich South Dublin residents to oppose Metrolink. He's dangerous. His crayons will ensure that absolutely nothing gets done if he's let near power

Cork Trucker · 09-07-2019 9:59am

L1011 wrote: »

Ryan also became a useful idiot for rich South Dublin residents to oppose Metrolink. He's dangerous. His crayons will ensure that absolutely nothing gets done if he's let near power

His last time in office wasn’t pleasant at all. It just went to show what FF/PD’s were willing to do to hold onto power then. There wouldn’t be a major road project in the country go ahead if they were head of government.

The M20 is something they probably believe they can stop if this green wave rolls on into the next general election and they return to the cabinet table.

Cookiemunster · 09-07-2019 10:26am

Cork Trucker wrote: »

His last time in office wasn’t pleasant at all. It just went to show what FF/PD’s were willing to do to hold onto power then. There wouldn’t be a major road project in the country go ahead if they were head of government.

The M20 is something they probably believe they can stop if this green wave rolls on into the next general election and they return to the cabinet table.

The thing is that the green wave didn't really happen. It's all build on the exit polls which wildly overestimated the number of seats that the Greens finally ended up with. Yes they improved, but they got 5.5% of the national vote. In a general election I think they'd struggle to even overtake Labour.

cgcsb · 09-07-2019 10:28am

Baldilocks wrote: »

Rail is not really a viable option in Ireland - our population density is far too low for it to be sustainable. The fact driving from Cork to Dublin is cheaper and faster than the train is proof enough for me that rail will never work on the west coast.

Don't be silly, Sweden has a high quality medium/high speed rail service across a country that is way more sparsely populated than Ireland. Your argument is against the lack of investment in rail, which you would put you in agreement with the green party.

Isambard · 09-07-2019 11:26am

cgcsb wrote: »

Don't be silly, Sweden has a high quality medium/high speed rail service across a country that is way more sparsely populated than Ireland. Your argument is against the lack of investment in rail, which you would put you in agreement with the green party.

we have a decent system under the circs for services across the country. it's service UP the country where noone lives is the bone of contention

cgcsb · 09-07-2019 11:39am

Isambard wrote: »

we have a decent system under the circs for services across the country. it's service UP the country where noone lives is the bone of contention

Cork to Limerick is hardly 'up the country' they should have an hourly rail connection and services that take about an hour and 10 mins, regardless of what happens to the M20. This is easily achievable with a small investment. For a little more money hourly Cork-Galway trains should offer a 2.5 hour journey. This is standard fare in industrialised countries.

The biggest problem though is we're spending billions on intercity motorways, when really the 1st and foremost issue is transport within the cities, which is absolutely dire in this country. Intra-city transport is much more heavily used than inter-city and investment in the former yields much better results. Unfortunately this government sees fit to do nothing about transport in Cork for the next 10 years, when they promise they'll re-open the luas, commuter rail and bus connects projects for another round of public consultation.

M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

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