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450 job losses announced at Iarnród Éireann

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    #92
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,968 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    How did Rathdrum come to be unmanned in the first place?

    It's peak hours only since the signal box closed down, so I'm told. I'd wager a guess that the tourism traffic is what's keeping it going.


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    #93
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    what about killcool, anything stop there now?

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #94
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,968 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    end of the road wrote: »
    what about killcool, anything stop there now?

    Two morning and three evening trains weekdays; no Sunday services. Most locals there use Greystones as it it has DART and a large car park adjacent; some find it's handier to get to.


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    #95
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    IE's usual station lengths seem to be 176m for a "normal" station for 6 car 22 services and 90m for 3 car 22/4 car 26/27/28 going by the network statement. Wicklow line stations south of Greystone seem to fall in between, in the 130m-140m range with a few in the 120s (so a 6 car 2700 set would have worked if you could trust the couplers not to spontaneously part company)

    Losty, I assumed that RPSI set fell under some form of grandfathering tbh.


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    #96
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    Two morning and three evening trains weekdays; no Sunday services. Most locals there use Greystones as it it has DART and a large car park adjacent; some find it's handier to get to.

    why keep it open if thats the case?

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #97
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,968 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    dowlingm wrote: »
    IE's usual station lengths seem to be 176m for a "normal" station for 6 car 22 services and 90m for 3 car 22/4 car 26/27/28 going by the network statement. Wicklow line stations south of Greystone seem to fall in between, in the 130m-140m range with a few in the 120s (so a 6 car 2700 set would have worked if you could trust the couplers not to spontaneously part company)

    Losty, I assumed that RPSI set fell under some form of grandfathering tbh.

    A 6 car set is 139 metres long so a 130m platform is just enough, allowing for the nose and cab. Obviously, this depends on a careful stop by the driver but as a signal is usually at the platform end it's adhered to rigidly.

    The RSPI trains are manned by a rostered steward on each door as per it's safety case.


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    #98
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,968 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    end of the road wrote: »
    why keep it open if thats the case?

    Try and close it and see what happens :)


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    #99
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    Try and close it and see what happens

    i'm not suggesting they do but asking why they don't if the locals prefer graystones? while graystones maybe handier its a waste to go all the way there when they have a station themselves, obviously those who live nearer to graystones will go there. obviously those living in killcool are happy with the service level they get, but if not maybe they should look for more services to stop there on a trial basis, should usership go up then look at all trains to stop there eventually?

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #100
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,968 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    end of the road wrote: »
    well then maybe the locals should use it more and all trains stop there? a waste to go all the way to graystones when you have a station on your doorstep if all services stopped?

    All services beyond Greystones is 5 Rosslare-Connolly trains 6 days a week. Greystones has about 1 Dart every hour as well. I know what I'd do if I lived down there.


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    #101
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    That's why the specifications for the 22000s should have included SDO. Who ever drew up the plans for them was too busy trying to design them to exclude the carrying of parcels/bikes etc. :rolleyes:

    Not too late, they could still remove a few rows of seats from premier and partition it off :p


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    #102
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    How did Rathdrum come to be unmanned in the first place?

    It is just a tiny station with only a few passengers a week, why stop trains there at all when the buses stop there?


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    #103
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    It is just a tiny station with only a few passengers a week, why stop trains there at all when the buses stop there?

    Rathdrum Station serves an immediate population of approx.1,500 people and is quite busy any time I'm through it, and I don't think that it would be a sensible move to close it anymore than any other surviving station. What bus service is it that you refer to - link please? How would it speed up the service to close the station given the presence of the Corballis Viaduct at the station throat? How would it improve IE's finances?


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    #104
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Rathdrum Station serves an immediate population of approx.1,500 people and is quite busy any time I'm through it, and I don't think that it would be a sensible move to close it anymore than any other surviving station.
    exactly, its not just people from rathdrum who use the station, their would be people from the areas around it who use it.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #105
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    All services beyond Greystones is 5 Rosslare-Connolly trains 6 days a week. Greystones has about 1 Dart every hour as well. I know what I'd do if I lived down there.

    well thats hardly their fault the service is infrequent is it? so if their going to graystones then why keep killcool open? the people there are obviously using it which is why its still open. and i thought the goary commuters stop there or do they run anymore?

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #106
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    we voted yes for jobs didnt we lol


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    #107
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,301 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Dublin Spotter wrote: »
    If the ecomney wasn't the way it is people wouldn't be complaining about IR buying the 22000 class trains. They were got so build a bridge and get over it as we can't go back in time.

    Advantages:
    1 - Fully accessable for disabled passengers.
    2 - Capacity to match demand and can be spilt in minutes which Mark 3 could not.
    3 - Very fuel efficent (best in Europe)
    4 - Major imporvment in relaibleity (do not require all engines to operate) unlike the Mark3 which has only a loco. If a break down can be attached to another ICR to clear line (they all should be fitted with a system to stop faults being transferd by now) after IR learned when they tried it before
    5 - Much less wear and tear to the tracks compared to the 201 class
    6 - Fitted with latest technology - engine fire system, CCTV (in and out),
    7 - Can break much faster than the Mark3+201 and guessing the same for the Mark 4.
    8 - Fully air-conditioned
    9 - Advantages to some routes mainly Waterford with time in Kilkenny halved with no loco changed required (I know some were operated by PP sets) and splitting for Westport/Galway services at Athlone.
    10 - Engines can be powered off/on in seconds unlike 201 class. Engines set to go into standby mode after approx 25-30 mins if train is not moving, which saves fuel.
    11. Have tanks for WC unlike the Mark3 which dumped it to the tracks.

    I loved the Mark3's and would of liked to see them remain in service but the ICR are much more cost effective you can't say other wise.

    Reading on wiki and can anybody confirm this.

    I know this is off topic but can you tell me,

    Could you explain your comment marked in bold in more detail please. I am not liking how as it is badly phrased.


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    #108
    Dublin Spotter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭Dublin Spotter


    dublinman1990 wrote: »
    I know this is off topic but can you tell me,

    Could you explain your comment marked in bold in more detail please. I am not liking how as it is badly phrased.

    When the toilets were flushed on the Mark 3 everything was dumped onto the tracks and you were not allowed to go to the toilets when the train is at the station because of it. On the 22000 trains there is a tank which collects it and it gets emptyed at Portlaois Deport every few days.


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    #109
    kc56
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭kc56


    Dublin Spotter wrote: »
    When the toilets were flushed on the Mark 3 everything was dumped onto the tracks and you were not allowed to go to the toilets when the train is at the station because of it. On the 22000 trains there is a tank which collects it and it gets emptyed at Portlaois Deport every few days.

    Most platforms in Heuston have facilities for emptying the tanks and replenishing water supplies and fuel.


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    #110
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    If the Mark 3s were refitted I can't help but think the toilets wouldn't be hard to fit as so much would already be ripped out to facilitate everything else that would be needed to bring them up to a similar standard to the rest of the IC stock. It will be interesting to see what sort of refresh the DDs get when they get their midlife update - assuming that update isn't NIR just saying "hey wouldn't it be great if we just ran 6 x C4K instead?"


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    #111
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Dublin Spotter wrote: »
    you were not allowed to go to the toilets when the train is at the station
    yeh, in the toilets waiting for the train to pull off, and the toilets on the mark 2s running on the rosslare line weren't the most pleasant either.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #112
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Rathdrum Station serves an immediate population of approx.1,500 people and is quite busy any time I'm through it, and I don't think that it would be a sensible move to close it anymore than any other surviving station. What bus service is it that you refer to - link please? How would it speed up the service to close the station given the presence of the Corballis Viaduct at the station throat? How would it improve IE's finances?

    For such a small population that decide to live in such a mountainous area where rail travel is not the cheapest or easiest option there is a bus alternative that goes between ark low and Wicklow towns and buses or the train can be got from either of these two towns!

    http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1326189473-133.pdf


    People living up the mountains and out in very rural areas can't really expect hourly bus or dart services unless they pay extra for them!


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    #113
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    That's an amazingly useful looking timetable you posted. :D How about the benefits in terms of revenue, time saved etc. by not stopping at Rathdrum??


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    #114
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    It's two buses a day and one a day on Sundays, what more do people in such a tiny mountain village deserve? That's more than Walton's mountain ever had! How many people use the train on a daily basis from Rathdrum? It is tiny insignificant water halts like this that are crippling Irish rail but people insist on keeping the stop because of the history and backward look and feel of places like Rathdrum.


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    #115
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    It's two buses a day and one a day on Sundays, what more do people in such a tiny mountain village deserve? That's more than Walton's mountain ever had! How many people use the train on a daily basis from Rathdrum? It is tiny insignificant water halts like this that are crippling Irish rail but people insist on keeping the stop because of the history and backward look and feel of places like Rathdrum.

    Did you even bother to look at the times and see what use could be made of the services? Sometimes you post good sense and other times absolute bilge. You still haven't explained where the benefits lie in closing somewhere such as Rathdrum? Someone else wanted to close Kilcoole - big staff savings there too!


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    #116
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Did you even bother to look at the times and see what use could be made of the services? Sometimes you post good sense and other times absolute bilge. You still haven't explained where the benefits lie in closing somewhere such as Rathdrum? Someone else wanted to close Kilcoole - big staff savings there too!
    The main benefits lie in not putting all the passengers on a packed train through the hassle of stopping in an historic station which has no real purpose so maybe one or two people a day can use it.

    How many people both paying and those with free travel use this station regularly?


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    #117
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,968 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    dowlingm wrote: »
    If the Mark 3s were refitted I can't help but think the toilets wouldn't be hard to fit as so much would already be ripped out to facilitate everything else that would be needed to bring them up to a similar standard to the rest of the IC stock. It will be interesting to see what sort of refresh the DDs get when they get their midlife update - assuming that update isn't NIR just saying "hey wouldn't it be great if we just ran 6 x C4K instead?"

    If they were refitted they'd still not be accessible for wheelchairs without enlarging the doorways. Given the tubular design of the Mark 3 carriage, to do so would affect the fundamental strength of the body as a whole without costing several hundred thousand €. A wheelchair assessable WC and a space for a passenger's chair pace would cost you some seats as well.

    Of course, you could refit without any thought or allowance for mobility impaired passengers or anything at a far cheaper cost :rolleyes:


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    #118
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    was this thread once about job losses at irish rail?


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    #119
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Losty - how are Chiltern managing it? Did the slam door UK 3s have wider openings?

    Re: Rathdrum - isn't there's a loop there - many of the stops possibly for the convenience of pathing not passengers? As was pointed out foggy_lad if a train is speed restricted passing through Rathdrum anyway because of the geography of the site there's not much to be lost by stopping.

    Hilly Bill - do you have anything further to add about the job losses? If so add it.


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    #120
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Rathdrum is a crossing place but not regularly used. It is a destination for Railtours Ireland passengers http://www.railtoursireland.com/train-tour/The-Wicklow-Mountains-Glendalough-Kilkenny-City/dC01K/ and a local taxi/tour operator Mick Dunbar Cabs http://www.mickdunbar.com/ also operates to and from Rathdrum Station. As I said previously, any time I pass through there's a fair volume of commuter traffic and that's what the service is tailored to. That it could be much busier goes without saying but that is down to CIE/IE's ramshackle business methods. I almost forgot, but the main reason Foggy appears to want Rathdrum closed is the presence of old railway buildings - something for which he has a deep, irrational loathing. Presumably he loves Broombridge and Kilcoole - the closure of the Soviet style South Wexford line must have been a severe blow to him. :D


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    #121
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,968 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Losty - how are Chiltern managing it? Did the slam door UK 3s have wider openings?.

    I understand that they had to pretty much cut off and reengineer the rear ends with a larger doorway; a retaining WC was also fitted as well as the various interior and external works done. All told, it was circa €400,000 per carriage.


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