Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

1…5556586061…120

Comments

  • #2852
    Galego
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Galego


    LadyLyons wrote: »
    Who can you complain to about a faulty stove and damage from installation of a stove when the person you bought from won't take your calls? Thank

    My advise would be. Give the manufacture a call and explain to them the situation.


  • #2853
    sooty_soupy
    Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭sooty_soupy


    I would be inclined to ring your local council and see if there is a consumer protection department or building control officer to see what they can do for you. In the North, we have trading standards, which is a government department designed to protect consumers, and I am sure there must be something similar in the South. I have been called in to investigate and produce reports for them before for this very reason. Others will go through solicitors and small claims courts. It would not be the first time your local councillor looking for votes has been called in to help, and you will be surprised how the threat of a local journalist investigating the matter gets a response. Ring the manufacturer of the stove and ask for their advice too, as it can quite often be the case that they can put pressure on the retailer to sort out the problem.

    All too often people are being faced with this very issue. There are a lot of rogues out there. My advice is to select a week known brand of stove, preferably British or Irish, and then speak to the manufacturer DIRECTLY and ask them who they recommend. This way you have some come back if all goes wrong. Often the cheap and cheerful stoves are working on volume sales and they don't care who sells them, but the companies such as Charnwood, Hunter, Clearview to name some that I know with a reputation to protect are very selective of who they allow to sell their stoves.

    Hope this helps.
    LadyLyons wrote: »
    Who can you complain to about a faulty stove and damage from installation of a stove when the person you bought from won't take your calls? Thank


  • #2854
    angeldaisy
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 2,283 Mod ✭✭✭✭angeldaisy


    Sorry if this has been asked before, but I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about!

    I'm hoping to replace our open fire with a stove later this year.

    We are open plan with high ceilings and have underfloor heating.

    I'm wondering if there is any system I could put in that would not only heat the rooms but heat hot water as well.

    Is this something that could be done considering we have no radiators ?


  • #2855
    RubyGirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭RubyGirl


    angeldaisy wrote: »
    Sorry if this has been asked before, but I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about!

    I'm hoping to replace our open fire with a stove later this year.

    We are open plan with high ceilings and have underfloor heating.

    I'm wondering if there is any system I could put in that would not only heat the rooms but heat hot water as well.

    Is this something that could be done considering we have no radiators ?

    Yes you would be looking for a boiler stove. Take the measurement of the room the stove will be in and take the number of rad's and if they are double or single rad's when you go stove shopping. They will advise you from there.


  • #2856
    angeldaisy
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 2,283 Mod ✭✭✭✭angeldaisy


    RubyGirl wrote: »
    Yes you would be looking for a boiler stove. Take the measurement of the room the stove will be in and take the number of rad's and if they are double or single rad's when you go stove shopping. They will advise you from there.

    We have NO radiators though, could we still go for a boiler stove?


  • Advertisement
  • #2857
    sooty_soupy
    Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭sooty_soupy


    Just remember that if you elect to fit a boiler stove, the stove defaults to heating water first, and radiant heat afterwards. All too often people want a stove to do EVERYTHING for them, but find the stove needs HUGE volumes of fuel to do all the work. As chairman of the Northern Ireland Association of Chimney Sweeps, I have travelled the world to conferences and seminars, and so many countries can't understand why these islands are so wrapped up in boiler stoves. If you read through some of the ever increasing posts on this forum, there is a common theme of people claiming boiler stoves are not performing as well as people were promised. Others will claim the stoves are doing well for them, but the volume of fuel is not always mentioned. Our Clearview stove for instance at home has been lit since September and on average goes through 12 logs a day, and can stay in overnight on two logs. Some people will claim nearly 48hrs burning on a bucket of smokeless coal...compare this with cheaper stoves that tend to over burn due to lack of control, and the fuel usage soars. Slow long burning stoves heat the mass of the house better than blasting fires that go out at the end of the day.

    Hope this helps a little. Check out www.whatstove.co.uk for reviews on different stove manufacturers for impartial advice.

    David
    angeldaisy wrote: »
    We have NO radiators though, could we still go for a boiler stove?


  • #2858
    angeldaisy
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 2,283 Mod ✭✭✭✭angeldaisy


    Souty_Soupy thanks for a great and detailed answer.

    Think I will just go for a standard stove so.

    Any suggestions?

    It will probably be lit most evenings during the winter period and possibly during the days at weekends.

    I'm looking for the most fuel efficient one, rather than the cheapest one.

    In our open fire, we currently get through a large bag of coal a week and probably a wheelbarrow full of blocks.

    We aren't limited to smokeless fuel or anything like that. We also intend to redo the fireplace at the same time - so not too worried about getting a stove to fit into a certain sized area.


  • #2859
    sooty_soupy
    Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭sooty_soupy


    You now have the daunting task of selecting a stove...and God bless you with this one. My suggestions would be to buy British or Irish from a tried and tested company. If you want controlled burning, then often a strong steel stove is a better choice, however cast fires can retain heat for longer when they go out. Just be careful that the cast stoves are not import crap made of Pig Iron which is what open fire grates are made of now otherwise you are in for trouble with parts needing replaced, and stoves just burning out completely. The quickest I have seen a chinese import burn out is 18 months. Remember if the joints of these cast stoves are made of fire cement, once it breaks down the stove will such oxygen through the joints and cause over-burning, and you can't control it's consumption of fuel.

    Brands to check out in my humble opinion are Charnwood, made in the Isle of Wight, or Clearview made in Shropshire. Both well respected companies that have been around for decades, long before the trendy stove was as popular. Pricey...yes but get brilliant reviews on forums. Other middle of the road stoves are Stovax, Hunter, Stanley etc. Again this is only my opinion as a registered chimney technician for 24 years working with these things. You can also look into the likes of Morso which are Danish and Jotul which are Norweigan, along with Dovre. I have personal reasons why I would never buy so much as a bolt for a Morso, because of how they treated a dedicated stockist of many years here in the North as he came to retirement age, but that is another story. I can't say they are not a good stove, but ethically they leave a lot to be desired from what I can make out.

    Look for a stove that has an external air system which is a sought after feature, which means you can bring the air straight onto the stove rather than it taking air from the room. This is important if you are putting anything in bigger than 5KW as you will need to add additional ventilation to a room if a bigger stove is used. Carbon Monoxide is a real risk in situations like this, and all too often neglected to be fitted. Clearview were the first stove company to have such a device fitted to their stove, and were also had the first stove in the world that was passed to burn wood in smoke controlled areas, they are so clean burning and efficient.


    We only sell one brand of stove, and thankfully don't have to sell anything else as we are inundated with the work we have at times. Go on to the web site I mentioned and read some reviews on all kinds of stoves though, to get some impartial advice and comments from people who actually own the appliances. I would also suggest to MAKE SURE you see the stove you are looking for working in a showroom somewhere. All these shops and box moving outfits are happy to show you lines and lines of stoves but none of them lit....but that shows you nothing. Google is your friend here, and a stockist that is approved by the manufacturer is approved for a reason.

    On another note, just remember that the stoves may well be multi fuel, but that doesn't mean you can burn ANYTHING on them. Another claim that some idiots are claiming in shops that is simply a myth or selling spiel. When it says it is multi fuel, it means you are not limited to burning dry seasoned wood. You will also be able to burn smokeless coal or turf for instance. Ordinary house coal you use on an open fire and slack should not be used on a slumber burning appliance such as a stove. It will clog the chimney up VERY quickly and once a flue is restricted you are in real danger of CO if the gases can't escape. If you have to resort to burning slack on a stove then the stove needs attention. The reason slack is used on an open fire is to help reduce the amount of air and ultimately oxygen going through the bigger coals to reduce the speed in which the coal burns. If you have a good enough stove, then the stove should be able to control the air getting in by way of opening and closing the air supplies.

    Oh what fun you are set to have.

    If we can be of any help, let me know.

    angeldaisy wrote: »
    Souty_Soupy thanks for a great and detailed answer.

    Think I will just go for a standard stove so.

    Any suggestions?

    It will probably be lit most evenings during the winter period and possibly during the days at weekends.

    I'm looking for the most fuel efficient one, rather than the cheapest one.

    In our open fire, we currently get through a large bag of coal a week and probably a wheelbarrow full of blocks.

    We aren't limited to smokeless fuel or anything like that. We also intend to redo the fireplace at the same time - so not too worried about getting a stove to fit into a certain sized area.


  • #2860
    therealmccoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 179 ✭✭therealmccoy


    angeldaisy wrote: »
    Souty_Soupy thanks for a great and detailed answer.

    Think I will just go for a standard stove so.

    Any suggestions?

    It will probably be lit most evenings during the winter period and possibly during the days at weekends.

    I'm looking for the most fuel efficient one, rather than the cheapest one.

    In our open fire, we currently get through a large bag of coal a week and probably a wheelbarrow full of blocks.

    We aren't limited to smokeless fuel or anything like that. We also intend to redo the fireplace at the same time - so not too worried about getting a stove to fit into a certain sized area.

    Hi, a non-boiler stove would be more suitable to what you are looking for alright.
    Depending on the dimensions of the area you are looking to heat you may need a very large stove (especially with high ceilings).

    Along with the good recommendations above, another stove to look at would be Inis (Irish Made). Probably the Inis Meain MK2 depending on the heat requirement. It is available for external air if needed as well. Definitely one of the best built stove manufacturers on the market right now.


  • #2861
    dwiseman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭dwiseman


    LadyLyons wrote: »
    Who can you complain to about a faulty stove and damage from installation of a stove when the person you bought from won't take your calls? Thank

    If the cost of the stove and installation was under €2000.00 you could take a case against them through the small claims court. Details can be found at the link below.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/small_claims_court.html


  • Advertisement
  • #2862
    funstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭funstuff


    Hello,

    Just wondering if you went with the Hestia Stove and how was it?

    Many thanks
    Gerry


  • #2863
    froshtyv
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 225 ✭✭froshtyv


    angeldaisy wrote: »
    Sorry if this has been asked before, but I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about!

    I'm hoping to replace our open fire with a stove later this year.

    We are open plan with high ceilings and have underfloor heating.

    I'm wondering if there is any system I could put in that would not only heat the rooms but heat hot water as well.

    Is this something that could be done considering we have no radiators ?

    You would need a heat exchanger if you are looking to connect a stove to your UFH.


  • #2864
    Galego
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Galego


    sooty_soupy wrote: »
    As chairman of the Northern Ireland Association of Chimney Sweeps, I have travelled the world to conferences and seminars, and so many countries can't understand why these islands are so wrapped up in boiler stoves. If you read through some of the ever increasing posts on this forum, there is a common theme of people claiming boiler stoves are not performing as well as people were promised.

    Why this Irish obsession for the back boilers? Is there any reason for it?


  • #2865
    MugMugs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    Galego wrote: »
    Why this Irish obsession for the back boilers? Is there any reason for it?

    Heats your entire house as well as your water for a fraction of the cost.


  • #2866
    froshtyv
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 225 ✭✭froshtyv


    MugMugs wrote: »
    Heats your entire house as well as your water for a fraction of the cost.

    Define a fraction of the cost?

    Not everybody with a solid fuel stove has access to a bog.

    Most people who i talk to never seem to take into consideration the cost of actually buying fuel to burn in the stove.


  • #2867
    celtictiger
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭celtictiger


    We have a detached bungalow - large open plan kitchen / living area approx 30 feet x 14 feet with two medium radiators, 4 bedrooms approx 15 foot x 13 foot each with medium radiators, second living room with open fire, hallway has two medium radiators, towel rail in bathroom. Oil boiler heats the lot + water. It's a pressurised system. This last year to date we've spent €2,400 on oil.....seems extremely high to me. Would it make econmic sense to get an boiler stove fitted with fire bird heat exchanger/heat genie? Probably burning coal with a bit of turf. What size output would I require to take over the heating using the oil as backup? Many thanks for any suggestions.


  • #2868
    BoardsMember
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    Anyone know what type of stove this is? We're about to rip it out, just wondering what make/type/use it might be to someone and if it might have some value. NB - I am not looking to sell it here, I am just wondering what it might be called etc


  • #2869
    gomamochi1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 542 ✭✭✭gomamochi1


    celtictiger wrote: »
    We have a detached bungalow - large open plan kitchen / living area approx 30 feet x 14 feet with two medium radiators, 4 bedrooms approx 15 foot x 13 foot each with medium radiators, second living room with open fire, hallway has two medium radiators, towel rail in bathroom. Oil boiler heats the lot + water. It's a pressurised system. This last year to date we've spent €2,400 on oil.....seems extremely high to me. Would it make econmic sense to get an boiler stove fitted with fire bird heat exchanger/heat genie? Probably burning coal with a bit of turf. What size output would I require to take over the heating using the oil as backup? Many thanks for any suggestions.
    We are in a similiar situation however insulation drylining your exterior facing walls is where I would spend the dosh first and replacing windows if needed. No point fitting back boiler stove spending thousands with the heat lashing out the walls!


  • #2870
    gomamochi1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 542 ✭✭✭gomamochi1


    Recommend a good back boiler stove for a 2000 sq foot dormer that also requires drylining! Was also thinking of retrofitting underfloor heating but may be a mare!


  • #2871
    Galego
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Galego


    Quick for those having an insert stove (maybe free standing applies too):

    how many carbon monoxide alarms did you fit in your house?

    I've been told to fit 3. 2 downstairs and 1 upstairs in my daughter's room.

    Is that too many?


  • Advertisement
  • #2872
    micks_address
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Galego wrote: »
    Quick for those having an insert stove (maybe free standing applies too):

    how many carbon monoxide alarms did you fit in your house?

    I've been told to fit 3. 2 downstairs and 1 upstairs in my daughter's room.

    Is that too many?

    We have one downstairs in the same room as the stove.


  • #2873
    Citizenpain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,978 ✭✭✭Citizenpain


    Galego wrote: »
    Quick for those having an insert stove (maybe free standing applies too):

    how many carbon monoxide alarms did you fit in your house?

    I've been told to fit 3. 2 downstairs and 1 upstairs in my daughter's room.

    Is that too many?

    2 stoves in 2 rooms . Detector and vent in each


  • #2874
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,537 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    micks_address wrote: »
    We have one downstairs in the same room as the stove.

    Same as this, one in the room the stove is in.


  • #2875
    dwiseman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭dwiseman


    Galego wrote: »
    Quick for those having an insert stove (maybe free standing applies too):

    how many carbon monoxide alarms did you fit in your house?

    I've been told to fit 3. 2 downstairs and 1 upstairs in my daughter's room.

    Is that too many?

    One in each room that has a stove and one in the front hall just in case there's a problem with either of the other 2.


  • #2876
    vgrainge
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭vgrainge


    Looking for recommendations for a free standing enamel black stove approx 8kw.

    Any good show rooms I could go to, living in Dublin.

    I've another question is a vent necessary in the room with the stove as my builder has not put one in!


  • #2877
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,537 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    vgrainge wrote: »
    Looking for recommendations for a free standing enamel black stove approx 8kw.

    Any good show rooms I could go to, living in Dublin.

    I've another question is a vent necessary in the room with the stove as my builder has not put one in!

    Not sure if I'm allowed name businesses here (please remove this if not! ) but Paramount Distributors off Infirmary Road near the Phoenix Park have a good selection on display. I got mine from Antique Fireplaces in Kilternan, found them brilliant to deal with and they had a different large selection on display (some lit) (and they have a gorgeous cat! )

    Can't say for definite, but I'd imagine a vent is a must.


  • #2878
    therealmccoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 179 ✭✭therealmccoy


    vgrainge wrote: »
    Looking for recommendations for a free standing enamel black stove approx 8kw.

    Any good show rooms I could go to, living in Dublin.

    I've another question is a vent necessary in the room with the stove as my builder has not put one in!

    It would be recommended to put a vent in a room with a stove.

    In terms of stove choice.. the Henley Skellig is a nice option. its 8kw and I know you can get it in black enamel.

    Theres a company, Fordes Furniture Superstore based in Kilcock, Co. Meath that stock them. Don't know anyone specifically in Dublin.


  • #2879
    richieburke01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 217 ✭✭richieburke01


    Hi Seafeilds
    it`s depends on your system layout
    is it open vented or pressurised
    gravity circuit possible
    Getting pipework from where the stove is to hot water tank or hot press
    Could be expensive or cheap depends


  • #2880
    meath4sam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 605 ✭✭✭meath4sam


    Not my stove but can find out more info if needed. It's a stove recently fitted with back burner, issue is every time the door is opened to fill with feul there is smoke released into the room, also the window goes black quiet a lot.


  • Advertisement
  • #2881
    richieburke01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 217 ✭✭richieburke01


    Was there a vent in the wall because the stove is drawing in air for combustion
    Also sounds like you got up draught or down draught
    Open the window before you open the stove door and see what happens then that will tell a lot
    Vent needed in the wall


  • #2882
    celtictiger
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭celtictiger


    gomamochi1 wrote: »
    We are in a similiar situation however insulation drylining your exterior facing walls is where I would spend the dosh first and replacing windows if needed. No point fitting back boiler stove spending thousands with the heat lashing out the walls!
    Thanks for the advice but this has been done already....exterior walls that is. Windows are okay afaik. Did you install a stove or do the upgrades?


  • #2883
    gomamochi1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 542 ✭✭✭gomamochi1


    celtictiger wrote: »
    Thanks for the advice but this has been done already....exterior walls that is. Windows are okay afaik. Did you install a stove or do the upgrades?

    Did both! Installed a multi fuel stove from Dimplex think it was the 8kw one which we found grand as it fitted big logs etc. Would have preferred back boiler version but plumber out us off as it is a pressurised gas central heating sys that is a bit of a pain to Pipe into! Would have been worth it in my opinion however was put off at the time and funds were tight to get in! Best of luck with it!


  • #2884
    bigdawg
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭bigdawg


    Hi Stovefan/All. We are looking at installing 2 stoves in our 2,000sq ft insulated dormer. One non-boiler stove in sittingroom (insert or stand out) and one larger boiler stove in Kitchen. About 14 rads in total off the boiler stove - though all may not be needed at same time so 10-12 in reality. We will probably replace our existing tank with a triple coil to allow for future solar if we go that route. Both plumbers that are pitching for the business seem to think that an insert stove would suffice as the main boiler stove in the kitchen but we have some reservations about this. One is that we fear the insert won't throw out enough heat to the rads as the fuel chambers are smaller on them and/or we will be loading it too often. Secondly, we fear that the insert will be in a tight spot and may not have enough room to expand or the costs needed to knock out the existing blockwork may push us towards a stand out stove.

    I suppose our real question is: are inserts a like-for-like option to a regular standout stove of the same output? We have our doubts and whilst the plumbers are genuine guys, once they do the install its not their issue after that?

    Whilst the main question is over type of stove (insert or stand out) we are also in a daze over the choice of stoves out there and find it hard to separate them. Currently, we are looking at Stanley, Olymberl, Blacksmith, Mulberry and Firewarm. They all look the same to us with only price differentiating them?

    Thanks for any input/advice.


  • #2885
    richieburke01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 217 ✭✭richieburke01


    Dealing with a customer at the moment that has an insert stove back boiler not heating the room it's in nor will it
    2kw to room is not enough for the size of the room
    Do the calculation right first


  • #2886
    Sanchez83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 277 ✭✭Sanchez83


    Hi Bigdawg,

    If the stove is independently tested then it should do the heat stated on the cert regardless if it is an insert or a freestanding stove.(once itis fitted correctly)
    Some companies only estimate the heat output and that's where you will be caught.
    Go back to your retailer and ask them for the certificate.
    I have seen the cert for the likes of the Stanley and Henley but the others probably have them also.


  • Advertisement
  • #2887
    emg74
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 225 ✭✭emg74


    Take a look at the Stratford EcoBoiler range of stoves. We have the free standing EB12He for the past 2 winters. It is heating the house (125sq meter bungalow) no problem. Using mostly turf and wood with a bit of smokeless coal every now and then if it particularly cold out. Would highly recommend this range. Probably pricier than some of the stoves you mentioned but very well built and looks good too.

    There is an insert version too - http://www.aradastoves.com/stoves


  • #2888
    Conor20
    Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭Conor20


    I've done a good bit of research, and there have been some good Boards.ie posts already which answered most of the questions I've had (here and here, as well as this thread). I have some specific requirements due to the space available however, and it would be great to hear people's perspectives - either if they've done this before, or people with plumbing/building experience they could apply to this situation.
    The background is that the house is a classic three bed semi. The living room is too small to fit a free standing wood burning stove, so the stove and back boiler will have to be inset into the fireplace. Ideally, it would have the heat output to heat all radiators in the house with no help from the gas boiler (which I will leave plumbed in as a backup, at least until the wood stove proves itself as able to heat the house.. However, the eventual goal is to move to exclusively wood for the radiators and hot water. We have one electric shower which means hot water for showers will be available in the summer when we don't have a need for any other heating).

    Some other threads have suggested Boru Stoves , and they do indeed stock an inset solid fuel stove and backboiler which seems to fit the bill (4KW output to the room and 11KW output to the hot water loop). The Boru 600ib Insert Boiler Stove seems to fit the bill, coming in around €2250 (from a different retailer, I haven't gotten a quote from Boru yet):
    the-boru-600i-insert-stoves-in-use-600x600.png)

    There is some great general information on the plumbing logic when installing backboilers here. For example, a setup like this:
    installation-type-1.gif

    I have a few questions about the plumbing and logictics about a setup like this. Namely
    • Will 11KW output of the back boiler provide enough hot water for a classic three bed semi (10 radiators)?
    • How hard is it to actually plumb in the back boiler? Does it need to be plumbed directly to the hot water tank upstairs, or can it just have two pipes which link it to the two closest radiators? The fact that it will inset into the fireplace may mean drilling holes in the fire resistant layer of the fireplace - is this a difficult job which requires expert knowledge, or is it do-able by a DIY warrior? Is an extra pump required in the system?
    • " If this is a vented system then incorporating a stove is relatively simple. If the system is unvented then there are only a few boiler stoves in the market that you can directly link to the system, but you might consider indirectly linking the systems (Type C (http://www.boilerstoves.co.uk/boiler-stove-installation-C.html) and Type D (http://www.boilerstoves.co.uk/boiler-stove-installation-D.html))." How does one find out if their system is vented, and what's the purpose of venting? To release excess heat?

    Thanks,
    Conor.


  • #2889
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,840 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    Conor20 wrote: »
    I've done a good bit of research, and there have been some good Boards.ie posts already which answered most of the questions I've had (here and here, as well as this thread). I have some specific requirements due to the space available however, and it would be great to hear people's perspectives - either if they've done this before, or people with plumbing/building experience they could apply to this situation.
    The background is that the house is a classic three bed semi. The living room is too small to fit a free standing wood burning stove, so the stove and back boiler will have to be inset into the fireplace. Ideally, it would have the heat output to heat all radiators in the house with no help from the gas boiler (which I will leave plumbed in as a backup, at least until the wood stove proves itself as able to heat the house.. However, the eventual goal is to move to exclusively wood for the radiators and hot water. We have one electric shower which means hot water for showers will be available in the summer when we don't have a need for any other heating).

    Some other threads have suggested Boru Stoves , and they do indeed stock an inset solid fuel stove and backboiler which seems to fit the bill (4KW output to the room and 11KW output to the hot water loop). The Boru 600ib Insert Boiler Stove seems to fit the bill, coming in around €2250 (from a different retailer, I haven't gotten a quote from Boru yet):
    the-boru-600i-insert-stoves-in-use-600x600.png)

    There is some great general information on the plumbing logic when installing backboilers here. For example, a setup like this:
    installation-type-1.gif

    I have a few questions about the plumbing and logictics about a setup like this. Namely
    • Will 11KW output of the back boiler provide enough hot water for a classic three bed semi (10 radiators)?
    • How hard is it to actually plumb in the back boiler? Does it need to be plumbed directly to the hot water tank upstairs, or can it just have two pipes which link it to the two closest radiators? The fact that it will inset into the fireplace may mean drilling holes in the fire resistant layer of the fireplace - is this a difficult job which requires expert knowledge, or is it do-able by a DIY warrior? Is an extra pump required in the system?
    • " If this is a vented system then incorporating a stove is relatively simple. If the system is unvented then there are only a few boiler stoves in the market that you can directly link to the system, but you might consider indirectly linking the systems (Type C (http://www.boilerstoves.co.uk/boiler-stove-installation-C.html) and Type D (http://www.boilerstoves.co.uk/boiler-stove-installation-D.html))." How does one find out if their system is vented, and what's the purpose of venting? To release excess heat?

    Thanks,
    Conor.

    In my opinion, that drawing is absolutely ludicrous. Joining a solid fuel system into a dual system is not a simple job and is CERTAINLY not a DIY job. Joining one to gas is even more complicated. Do not follow that drawing


  • #2890
    sooty_soupy
    Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭sooty_soupy


    First off, I would suggest thinking long and hard about a boiler stove to start with. Bear in mind the more you ask the stove to do behind the scenes, the more fuel you will go through, and the longer it will take to give you radiant heat. I can't remember the last time we sold a Clearview central heating stove. British built in Shropshire rather than the run of the mill "who flung dung" stuff.

    Out of the stove manufacturers you have listed there is only one I would have considered to be honest, coming from a registered chimney technicians background and having a history with them. Remember a lot of these companies will sell and forget you. Do some real homework with these things first. Try www.whatstove.co.uk for reviews from the general public before spending money.

    Bear in mind that in a kitchen environment, especially with an extractor fan, a lot of these stoves can not be fitted. It is also worth noting that ventilation is required for anything over 5KW, which can cause draughts in rooms unless you can fit an external air kit. I believe a lot of manufacturers are trying to catch up with Clearview and Charnwood who were some of the first UK manufacturers to have such a system.

    If it were my money, I would be fitting two dry stoves, (or perhaps one with a domestic boiler for hot water only) I would be buying very controllable stoves and burning less fuel but keeping them in for longer periods of time and spending as much money as I could afford on insulation. Our Vision 500 stove was lit last September and has been in all winter 24/7. It stays in overnight on two good sized logs easily. The stoves I would be picking would have dedicated air supplies on each, thus reducing draughts in the house and I would be buying something that didn't so much rely on "airwash" which is a gimmick that a lot of people fall for and they find it only works effectively when the stove is burning rapidly, but something that was famous for crystal clear glass no matter what level you burnt the stove. The clue is in the name and has been mentioned.... ;-)

    Hope this helps

    David
    bigdawg wrote: »
    Hi Stovefan/All. We are looking at installing 2 stoves in our 2,000sq ft insulated dormer. One non-boiler stove in sittingroom (insert or stand out) and one larger boiler stove in Kitchen. About 14 rads in total off the boiler stove - though all may not be needed at same time so 10-12 in reality. We will probably replace our existing tank with a triple coil to allow for future solar if we go that route. Both plumbers that are pitching for the business seem to think that an insert stove would suffice as the main boiler stove in the kitchen but we have some reservations about this. One is that we fear the insert won't throw out enough heat to the rads as the fuel chambers are smaller on them and/or we will be loading it too often. Secondly, we fear that the insert will be in a tight spot and may not have enough room to expand or the costs needed to knock out the existing blockwork may push us towards a stand out stove.

    I suppose our real question is: are inserts a like-for-like option to a regular standout stove of the same output? We have our doubts and whilst the plumbers are genuine guys, once they do the install its not their issue after that?

    Whilst the main question is over type of stove (insert or stand out) we are also in a daze over the choice of stoves out there and find it hard to separate them. Currently, we are looking at Stanley, Olymberl, Blacksmith, Mulberry and Firewarm. They all look the same to us with only price differentiating them?

    Thanks for any input/advice.


  • #2891
    jakko86
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 308 ✭✭jakko86


    Hi guys I'm currently building and want to put in a double sided "picture" type stove. The 2 I have seen are the scan dsa 12 and the barbas energa tunnel stove, I have external air supply brought to the fireplace and cavity space up chimney to vent to bedroom above. I'm concerned will the stove heat the area well with the kitchen on one side 5.2x4.4 and sitting room on the other 4.3x4.4m the bedroom above is the same size as sitting room. I'm more concerned about heating kitchen and sitting room really but I can't really find any reviews on these types of stoves and wonder how good they are as they are quiet expensive? Any help or advice would be great.


  • Advertisement
  • #2892
    sooty_soupy
    Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭sooty_soupy


    Clearview, the company we represent have a very clever, internationally patented system which keeps the glass a lot cleaner than any other stove company, hence the name, but even they don't do a two sided stove. Why risk the reputation of the whole brand to fit a niche market?

    My understanding is that two sided stoves can be a bit of a hit and miss to be honest. Some companies have stopped producing them due to the fact that it is very difficult to have an airwash system work well on both sides of the unit at the same time. On this basis you will find that heat should not be a problem but a focal point certainly is. One client of ours spent so much time with her stove manufacturer trying to sort it out, they ended up refunding her the cost of the stove and let her keep it as well, as they couldn't resolve the matter, even with engineers from the factory coming to the site and working with adapted parts etc.

    Remember that "airwash" is a system a lot of stove companies profess to have to help keep the glass clear. What a lot of companies, both retailers and manufacturers alike neglect to tell you is that airwash only works correctly if the stove is burning at an optimum burn. Based on the fact that too many idiots are selling stoves, and even more are buying them, and the mistake so many make is to buy something too big for the room for the all important "heat until the walls melt" attitude. You should buy a stove to give slightly less that the room requires with regards to heat, and forget about buying something because the hole the builder has made needs 50KW to make it look aesthetically pleasing. Get it wrong and you will need to turn the stove down so low it looks like it is out all the time, and the airwash feature is non existent. Dirty stove glass makes the room look unkept, but more importantly it causes dangerous levels of soot build up, and reduced oxygenated air to the combustion chamber can lead to the lethal Carbon Monoxide build up due to improper combustion.




    jakko86 wrote: »
    Hi guys I'm currently building and want to put in a double sided "picture" type stove. The 2 I have seen are the scan dsa 12 and the barbas energa tunnel stove, I have external air supply brought to the fireplace and cavity space up chimney to vent to bedroom above. I'm concerned will the stove heat the area well with the kitchen on one side 5.2x4.4 and sitting room on the other 4.3x4.4m the bedroom above is the same size as sitting room. I'm more concerned about heating kitchen and sitting room really but I can't really find any reviews on these types of stoves and wonder how good they are as they are quiet expensive? Any help or advice would be great.


  • #2893
    therealmccoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 179 ✭✭therealmccoy


    jakko86 wrote: »
    Hi guys I'm currently building and want to put in a double sided "picture" type stove. The 2 I have seen are the scan dsa 12 and the barbas energa tunnel stove, I have external air supply brought to the fireplace and cavity space up chimney to vent to bedroom above. I'm concerned will the stove heat the area well with the kitchen on one side 5.2x4.4 and sitting room on the other 4.3x4.4m the bedroom above is the same size as sitting room. I'm more concerned about heating kitchen and sitting room really but I can't really find any reviews on these types of stoves and wonder how good they are as they are quiet expensive? Any help or advice would be great.

    Hi there,
    No experience of those stoves so cannot comment on quality etc.

    However, based on what you are already looking at, here would be my suggestion: Nordica Bifacciale 100. (http://www.lanordica-extraflame.com/en/fireplaces-built-in-fireplaces/focolare-100-bifacciale_p9083)

    We have fitted many of these and never an ounce of trouble. Has ducting available as standard and with fan powered convection you shouldn't have issues heating the two rooms as sized above. (Fan is controllable by user and very quiet by comparison to others such as Boru).

    Any Qs, please feel free to PM me.


  • #2894
    nono2012
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭nono2012


    hi, bit of info on the house, have 16 double rads (need to confirm they are all double), room size is 4.59m X 4.43m.. We are looking for a boiler stove as this is what was in the house we are buying. We also have solar panels on the house. Anyone have any idea what size stove we would need? We have been told all sorts 20-21kw, 25-26kw and as low as 19kw?? We don't want something where we cannot bare the heat in the room but something that will heat the water and rads. O we also have central heating (encase this makes a difference).. thanks :)


  • #2895
    sooty_soupy
    Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭sooty_soupy


    I would suggest reading some of my other posts about boiler stoves NONO. A lot of people are taken by surprise by the volume of fuel they go through to do the water and radiators and all too often the last room to be warm is the room you are in. Also be careful that if you go down the route of a boiler stove against my advice, then make sure you buy one with an external air system available. If not you will need a significant vent in the room to feed the room with sufficient oxygenated air to feed the combustion process of such a big stove output.

    Hope this helps

    David


  • #2896
    nono2012
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭nono2012


    Hey :) thanks for the quick reply... are your other posts on this thread or another one??? thanks for the advice :)


  • #2897
    sooty_soupy
    Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭sooty_soupy


    should be on this one, but might be worth reading some of my other rants ;-)

    It is staggering how many people are offering 'good' advice that is sometimes less than GOOD

    Enjoy reading. Visit www.whatstove.co.uk or cdsf.co.uk for some reviews on stoves to get an idea of what you need to be avoiding.

    Best regards

    David


  • #2898
    nono2012
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭nono2012


    Thank you :) better get reading :)


  • #2899
    therealmccoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 179 ✭✭therealmccoy


    nono2012 wrote: »
    hi, bit of info on the house, have 16 double rads (need to confirm they are all double), room size is 4.59m X 4.43m.. We are looking for a boiler stove as this is what was in the house we are buying. We also have solar panels on the house. Anyone have any idea what size stove we would need? We have been told all sorts 20-21kw, 25-26kw and as low as 19kw?? We don't want something where we cannot bare the heat in the room but something that will heat the water and rads. O we also have central heating (encase this makes a difference).. thanks :)

    It is highly unlikely you will get a stove to heat all the rads in one go (depending on size of rads) but zoning your home might be an option. (Heating sleeping quarters and living quarters independent of each other) this will reduce your demand on the size of the stove you need and thus reduce the amount of fuel you will be burning. Also, you have to remember the size of the room that you are pputting the stove into.. Most of the big scale boiler stoves (20kw-30kw) give anything between 5-10kw to the room when in truth you probably only need around 4kw bearing in mind you probably have a radiator there too.

    So if you divide up your home into two zones, how many rads would be on the largest zone?


  • #2900
    RubyGirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭RubyGirl


    I'm getting a boiler inset in for the winter and had one quotation in already, out of the below three stove's which would you recommend as the best:

    Boru Chieftian
    Henley AChill
    Stratford EB16


  • #2901
    therealmccoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 179 ✭✭therealmccoy


    RubyGirl wrote: »
    I'm getting a boiler inset in for the winter and had one quotation in already, out of the below three stove's which would you recommend as the best:

    Boru Chieftian
    Henley AChill
    Stratford EB16

    Hi RubyGirl.

    All three are good in their own right but differ considerably as well.

    Here is the heatoutput breakdown as per the companies themselves:
    Boru: 15kw to Water / 2kw to Room. (16" fireopening)
    Henley: 12kw to Water / 5kw to Room. (16" Fireopening)
    Stratford: 16kw to Water / 3-5kw to Room. (But this stove is physically bigger in size - 20" Fireopening)

    Depending on your fireplace, you may need an extra few inches in width to get plumbing connected, a plumber will need to a survey for you.

    So picking the right stove will all depend on what you actually need. The Boru will heat (at max) 12 Rads (4ft single panel), the Henley 10 rads and the Stratford 12-13 rads.

    Size of the room will dictate also. Inset stoves do not give an abundance of heat to the room, the Henley (from experience) is particularly good.

    How many radiators are you looking to heat? and also are they single/double? Size?

    Once you know the size of the demand being placed on the boiler you'll have a better idea of what you need.

    All things being equal, the Stratford is probably the best overall quality of the three.


  • Advertisement
Advertisement