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Boating chit chat thread.
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do you not have an abandoned flag over there? someone in howth found one in the last 2 years and i had more abandoned races in two years then in 15 years
We do, but they're sticklers for sticking it out in the hut.
Apart from anything, having gone to the trouble of bringing the 8 people, 2 cars, 2 guns, and all other associated paraphernalia down the pier, the last thing they want to do is pack it all up again half an hour later. What about the poker and the cuppa tea, apart from anything else???
Anyway, as I've discovered to my cost, you'll never please all of the people all of the time - in fact, you'll never please even half of the people all of the time - so at least if they keep the race running, it's the skipper's decision to abandon if (s)he's so sure the wind is gone for the evening. If the committee abandons, they're the worst in the world, and OF COURSE the wind would have come back up again, but THEY ABANDONED, THE (insert term of abuse of choice here)
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HeidiHeidi wrote: »We do, but they're sticklers for sticking it out in the hut.
Apart from anything, having gone to the trouble of bringing the 8 people, 2 cars, 2 guns, and all other associated paraphernalia down the pier, the last thing they want to do is pack it all up again half an hour later. What about the poker and the cuppa tea, apart from anything else???
Anyway, as I've discovered to my cost, you'll never please all of the people all of the time - in fact, you'll never please even half of the people all of the time - so at least if they keep the race running, it's the skipper's decision to abandon if (s)he's so sure the wind is gone for the evening. If the committee abandons, they're the worst in the world, and OF COURSE the wind would have come back up again, but THEY ABANDONED, THE (insert term of abuse of choice here)
Totes agree when it comes to weeknights, but when it comes to multiple day drinkingracing events, I often wish they'd just blow it up when there's clearly no wind. Sitting in swell, racing fuel (measured by the ml) in the engine so can't turn it on, no wind to even the boat out, hung over, no wind so you can hear everyone else, gear still damp from the previous day so uncomfortable, boat rolling around and then someone, on some boat pukes and sets the whole fleet off. Those are the days when we will kneel at your feet and thank you for abandoning 0 -
miss no stars wrote: »Totes agree when it comes to weeknights, but when it comes to multiple day drinkingracing events, I often wish they'd just blow it up when there's clearly no wind. Sitting in swell, racing fuel (measured by the ml) in the engine so can't turn it on, no wind to even the boat out, hung over, no wind so you can hear everyone else, gear still damp from the previous day so uncomfortable, boat rolling around and then someone, on some boat pukes and sets the whole fleet off. Those are the days when we will kneel at your feet and thank you for abandoning
Oh I sooooo agree! I haven't reached the dizzy heights of on-the-water race officering yet (hoping to do a bit of training this year since I hear the Hut may be for the high jump soon, although that's been talked of for years), so you can't blame me for the above - but I've been on your end of it more than once!
To that I would add the endless pernicketyness of ROs who insist on spending HOURS setting the line, then the wind shifts by 5 degrees so they reset it, then the wind goes back so they reset it again, and then the wind shifts the other way.... rinse and repeat ad nauseum
Just get the feckin' race off ffs!!! We're amateurs, in a handicap class - does it REALLY matter? (I'm sure it probably does to some, but for all the reasons outlined by missnostars above, to us not so much) 0 -
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I raced for the last two seasons on a Ruffian; told my skipper that having put two winters worth of time and a chunk of money into my boat, I'm spending most of my weekends sailing instead of racing. He understands
Thursdays may be spoken for by work, and Tuesdays I make the guns go bang at the hut.
Clocked about 60 miles this weekend, and introduced 3 people to the fun of sailing.
Ta for the welcome
Welcome from here also.
I think I have volunteered for manning the flags? Is that the right terms? On Tuesdays So you may encounter me
/Makes note to check if I have indeed volunteered0 -
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As good a term as any. Tip: When the time hits 1 second, start hauling so that the flags are flying at 0 seconds
My dad was on the balcony at a club I was racing in once, which they were using as a race office. Someone there shoved a flag in his hands and told him to hang onto it for a moment. Cue my non-sailor father standing right beside the starting sequence flags, holding perfectly upright the Abandonment flag for all to see
In fairness he didn't have a clue and whoever handed it to him was probably in the wrong, it was still very embarrassing though 0 -
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miss no stars wrote: »Rafting up in bigger boats doesn't work so nicely. Tends to cause more trouble and damage than fun. Pirates is a less than successful game when capsize causes sinking, tbh.
That's what I thought, oh well. Would be some sight, the Dun Laoghaire regatta in a lull, and one big raft with people running all over the place. One can dream 0 -
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Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 49074
My dad was on the balcony at a club I was racing in once, which they were using as a race office. Someone there shoved a flag in his hands and told him to hang onto it for a moment. Cue my non-sailor father standing right beside the starting sequence flags, holding perfectly upright the Abandonment flag for all to see
In fairness he didn't have a clue and whoever handed it to him was probably in the wrong, it was still very embarrassing though
Lol, that's hilarious!As good a term as any. Tip: When the time hits 1 second, start hauling so that the flags are flying at 0 seconds
Ah this is different from the hut in Howth so, there they use giant wooden boards painted with the appropriate colours/symbols, on the boat starts they do use flagsmiss no stars wrote: »Things I do while waiting for wind:
1. Curse the committee boat for not arranging decent wind.
2. Curse the person who decided to go out despite poor forecast (even if it's me).
3. Snooze.
4. Rummage around for food and/or drink.
5. Go on facebook.
6. Play with the camera.
Rafting up in bigger boats doesn't work so nicely. Tends to cause more trouble and damage than fun. Pirates is a less than successful game when capsize causes sinking, tbh.
What is this pirates game of which you speak?
If I'm sitting around, I tend to
1. Listen to the RO continually procrastinate about whether or not to start, change course, send out the class 1 boats and make everyone else wait
2. Moan with fellow crew
3. Try with rest of crew to keep an eye out for potential accidental collisions due to no propulsion and lots of boats milling about
4. Try to estimate how long it will take to get over the start
5. Start considering how long before the thing is actually cancelled while mid course 0 -
HeidiHeidi wrote: »Oh I dunno!
First DL Regatta (the floater - no wind all weekend) all the Sonatas lined up and tethered together. (We were coming resoundingly and magnificently last in the race, and were still floating gently towards the finish line, and could see all the fun developing away from the race course, much to our annoyance!).
I think we got 13 of them rafted up in the end, someone struck up the CanCan on a stereo and dancing started on the foredecks, and then we fired up all the outboards and tried to drive the raft around the place.
It was great fun!
(We were VERY bored! and sunburned!)
Sounds like great fun! I always find that anything bigger than a dinghy lurches violently enough to dislocate my shoulders
If you're planning a repeat bring me along! Sounds like a much more fun way of passing the time.What is this pirates game of which you speak?
Known to every child to ever have sailed with SDC... And to any I've taught to sail... Pirates involves the crew boarding the vessel to be taken, removing their dagger board (optional) and fecking it as far away as it can be thrown, then capsizing them. Meanwhile the helm circles around, waits on the boat to be capsized and then picks their crew up from their position (hopefully) standing on the turtled hull of some open course pico.If I'm sitting around, I tend to
1. Listen to the RO continually procrastinate about whether or not to start, change course, send out the class 1 boats and make everyone else wait
2. Moan with fellow crew
3. Try with rest of crew to keep an eye out for potential accidental collisions due to no propulsion and lots of boats milling about
4. Try to estimate how long it will take to get over the start
5. Start considering how long before the thing is actually cancelled while mid course
Working far too hard. Chill. Work on the tan :P0 -
miss no stars wrote: »Sounds like great fun! I always find that anything bigger than a dinghy lurches violently enough to dislocate my shoulders If you're planning a repeat bring me along! Sounds like a much more fun way of passing the time.
There was literally NO wind that time - so no lurching whatsoever
Sadly the days of those numbers of Sonatas getting together (outside of NI) are long gone - we missed our chance when we had it, if we'd pushed for our own start we might have kept the class going. As it is, there's 2 out all the time, with a 3rd sometimes in C3..... battling it out against bloody 34-footers :mad:
If we knew then what we know now.......0 -
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miss no stars wrote: »Known to every child to ever have sailed with SDC... And to any I've taught to sail... Pirates involves the crew boarding the vessel to be taken, removing their dagger board (optional) and fecking it as far away as it can be thrown, then capsizing them. Meanwhile the helm circles around, waits on the boat to be capsized and then picks their crew up from their position (hopefully) standing on the turtled hull of some open course pico.
Working far too hard. Chill. Work on the tan :P
Ah I've seen this being done in Malahide, couldn't for the life of me figure out what was going on, usually kids in Optimists! It d,id appear to drive the rescue ribs crazy and only happened in very low wind
I plaster myself with factor 50 to avoid any possibility of sunburn 0 -
HeidiHeidi wrote: »There was literally NO wind that time - so no lurching whatsoever
Sadly the days of those numbers of Sonatas getting together (outside of NI) are long gone - we missed our chance when we had it, if we'd pushed for our own start we might have kept the class going. As it is, there's 2 out all the time, with a 3rd sometimes in C3..... battling it out against bloody 34-footers :mad:
If we knew then what we know now.......
Mmmm sometimes classes just die though, for no apparent reason. Like the Etchells fleet over here. Almost overnight it just disappeared and it had its own start. I'm gonna go ahead and blame money. Some people got more money than sense and moved into thoroughbred racers, others bought newer cruiser-racers that rate stupidly well for what they are. The crew went where the action was and owners traded into different boats. Hard for a 1970s boat designed with a young family's daytripping needs in mind to compete with a 2012 rigid as feck boat designed with all the latest technology with the needs of a racer in mind. ECHO should be the solution to those problems, but who wants to win on ECHO and be last on IRC?0 -
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miss no stars wrote: »Out of interest, what do they sail like? They're only small like, and given that hunter made a nice transatlantic boat out of a squib I can imagine some of the same design thinking went into the Sonata.
I haven't raced against the northerners but everything I hear is that they're in a league of their own generally. I wonder what they're doing differently, then I remember that it costs feck all to moor your boat and your racing fee is included in that. I think I hear a figure around 200-300 GBP being bandied about. That's how. They get numbers. It's hard to build a fleet when it costs
more than a grand just to get in the water and signed up for racing :mad:
Which means that those who are left are those who really like their little boats and don't want to move to something else, and those who can splash the cash and go modern, so to speak. Need a new handicapping system!
<given that hunter made a nice transatlantic boat out of a squib>
Do tell??!!
Sonatas are great little boats! Light as a feather, you'd turn them on a sixpence - and that's where the northerners completely ran rings around us - they were all either dinghy or FF sailors, and treated the Sonatas like dinghies - roll-tacking them, and throwing them around the place on the start line, which is exactly how they should be raced. Trouble is, when you're the smallest boat in a handicap fleet, it's very hard not to behave a bit like the bigger boats, so we tend to treat them more like heavy keelboats - when in fact there's no need to at all.
The cost thing might well be a big factor - maybe they can all afford to have/race dinghies/FFs as well as their Sonatas! But from what I saw that weekend, it was all in the mentality - the way they treated their boats.
If we had more Sonatas to compete against, I'm sure that behaviour would come more naturally to us.
Or maybe not!
But I really do agree with your overall point - I don't know how you'd go about handicapping for it - but I do know that C3 in events these days is a joke (DBSC has at least made an effort to split us up, although that ain't perfect either) - there's the sportsboats, and then there's the rest of us - I really wonder sometimes why we waste the entry fee, since we're NEVER going to compete against those boats. Even the other Sonata can't - and if they can't, what hope have us mere mortals??? 0 -
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HeidiHeidi wrote: »<given that hunter made a nice transatlantic boat out of a squib>
Do tell??!!
Sonatas are great little boats! Light as a feather, you'd turn them on a sixpence - and that's where the northerners completely ran rings around us - they were all either dinghy or FF sailors, and treated the Sonatas like dinghies - roll-tacking them, and throwing them around the place on the start line, which is exactly how they should be raced. Trouble is, when you're the smallest boat in a handicap fleet, it's very hard not to behave a bit like the bigger boats, so we tend to treat them more like heavy keelboats - when in fact there's no need to at all.
The cost thing might well be a big factor - maybe they can all afford to have/race dinghies/FFs as well as their Sonatas! But from what I saw that weekend, it was all in the mentality - the way they treated their boats.
If we had more Sonatas to compete against, I'm sure that behaviour would come more naturally to us.
Or maybe not!
But I really do agree with your overall point - I don't know how you'd go about handicapping for it - but I do know that C3 in events these days is a joke (DBSC has at least made an effort to split us up, although that ain't perfect either) - there's the sportsboats, and then there's the rest of us - I really wonder sometimes why we waste the entry fee, since we're NEVER going to compete against those boats. Even the other Sonata can't - and if they can't, what hope have us mere mortals???
Guy called David Blagden liked his squib so much he wanted to put a lid on it and race across the atlantic. Takes all sorts :eek:.
http://www.britishhunter.co.uk/page6.html
Actually, Stheno, I think I may have mentioned when I was crawling around under the deck trying to take the jib down that some mad yoke had gone across the atlantic with one :P I'm reminded of the madness of attempting it every single time I put the sails up on it hehe.
And as for the bit I bolded.... That's the kind of attitude that keeps nice older boats going 0 -
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miss no stars wrote: »Guy called David Blagden liked his squib so much he wanted to put a lid on it and race across the atlantic. Takes all sorts :eek:.
http://www.britishhunter.co.uk/page6.html
Actually, Stheno, I think I may have mentioned when I was crawling around under the deck trying to take the jib down that some mad yoke had gone across the atlantic with one :P I'm reminded of the madness of attempting it every single time I put the sails up on it hehe.
And as for the bit I bolded.... That's the kind of attitude that keeps nice older boats going
You did :eek: everytime I was out on your boat I thought about it 0 -
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Went to the Lake District once with the parents and grandparents. Took my sailing gear with me, because there was a promise of being able to go sailing on Windermere. Convinced the folks at the rental company that we knew what we were doing, and snagged their Hunter 19 for a few hours. Coming back up from the south end of the lake, we passed what looked like a 21.1, perhaps a bit bigger. They were going the same way, and seemed to be trying to go fast. They didn't realise I was racing them, but the 19, with crap sails and a good crew... well, they were somewhere behind us after 5 minutesmiss no stars wrote: »Bingo.
Willing Griffin was the one that sailed the Atlantic. Just about to start reading a copy of "Very Willing Griffin" I found in the house that tells the story of its crossing.
There's a Hunter 19 in Howth actually, blue hull iirc.
That experience nudged me to go boat hunting. While it's great for my sanity, it's a good thing I'm a bachelor and have no other expenditures 0 -
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Hah, good decision of ours to chicken out then
Would you be so good to post any notice of a re-run of it on here, in case I miss it? I usually see Prof's stuff on FB, but they obviously only notified those who had entered of the cancellation (which isn't unreasonable) - we were winging it to the last minute before deciding if we could/would do it.
Gawjus night out there tonight - we were a bit rusty and had a few feck-ups, but pleased with how it went overall. Anyone else get sent out into that eerie purple fog out at Asgard? 'Twas spoooooky :eek:0 -
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poxy bloody weather. no sailing this weekend :mad: RIYC cancelled and now my 2nd option of the coastal race has chickened out coz its to early in the season to get wet cold and pounded. Now im going to have to work on my own boat and hang around waiting for kid in the youth champs :mad: then if its raining theres no point working on my boat so poor me i,ll have just have to stay in the bar 0
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My first night as tactician in training.
Lads, it was a disaster.
Packed all my "normal" sailing gear the night before to take into work, but forgot the charts/polars, compass maps etc.
Then I decided after the start I didn't need to have the radio along with the sat nav and stop watch around my neck, so got it stowed in the cockpit bags.
All was fine, we'd a great start, and marks one and two were grand.
Fell apart at mark three when everyone went past the supposed mark.
Cue much discussion about the course, and following everyone else.
Turns out the course was changed and due to where the portable radio was, it got bashed by the "rest of the " crew and reset the channel so we missed it.
It was however a good learning experience, so much so that now I've a checklist of stuff to do before the start etc.
It was a beautiful night to go out sailing, even that purple fog was mesmerising
edit: I forgot to add on top of the rest of my sins, that I managed to catch the rear guardrail in my lifejacket and disconnect it 0 -
Early days! We fecked up a bit as well, but considering we had one crew who's never been on the boat before, and the others (bar me) haven't been near a boat since last August, it wasn't so bad. Just as well it wasn't very windy though!
I'm impressed with your range of techie stuff! Polars? Compass maps??? What's them then
I thought we'd hit the bigtime when we got a handheld gps.......
Don't remember hearing course changes over the radio, but we're divils for forgetting to listen in once our gun has gone. And chatting on the spinnaker run - I'm going to get gags for everyone one of these days - including myself!
Tomorrow looking like a rude awakening :eek:0 -
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HeidiHeidi wrote: »Early days! We fecked up a bit as well, but considering we had one crew who's never been on the boat before, and the others (bar me) haven't been near a boat since last August, it wasn't so bad. Just as well it wasn't very windy though!
I'm impressed with your range of techie stuff! Polars? Compass maps??? What's them then
I thought we'd hit the bigtime when we got a handheld gps.......
Don't remember hearing course changes over the radio, but we're divils for forgetting to listen in once our gun has gone. And chatting on the spinnaker run - I'm going to get gags for everyone one of these days - including myself!
Tomorrow looking like a rude awakening :eek:
Polars are what we term as the charts that tell us what speed we should be doing at a certain wind direction (I'm still learning by the way, not full of knowledge)
Compass charts, we use a chart with a 360 compass to understand where we are, and where we are going to to gauge direction.
I've a 270 page manual to read about our plotter so I can automate all this stuff, apart from the polars, and two North U books that I am slowly ploughing through.
I'm looking forward to tomorrow, looks like normal Howth conditions from last Autumn I've not had any rough days out in DL at all compared to Howth last year.
edit: Our skipper is iirc a qualified commerical Yachtmaster so into all the techie/maths stuff, hence all the maps/polar stuff
It is useful for reference so that you understand what speed you should be at given wind speed and direction, but a pain in the ass as you are constantly looking stuff up. Thankfully I've a good memory, which I have decided to use memorising mark positions, polars etc. I'm looking forward in a few weeks to reciting the stuff from memory and freaking him out (Vexorg, you didn't read this post!)0 -
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hate that mister millionaire. total bummer. Can feel your pain and my mast is still up for now,
https://www.facebook.com/quentin.derosny/posts/10152348413133984
Been there, done that (ours didn't have quite so far to fall, mind you)
Love the 4th pic, lots of finger-pointing going on!0 -
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Stheno I think your owner/skipper needs to take a serious chill pill if hes going on plotters and polars for white sails or even just bay sailing. Getting into that kind of racing is serious and more akin to what some guys in class 0 were up to in the naughtys when they were spending serious money campaigning in the uk, ireland and commodores cup or forking out hundreds of Ks on a new corby or kerr.
Would tend to agree with this. Keeping an eye on the figures of course is sensible, as is knowing your boat's capabilities, but I wouldn't get too bogged down in them for short course, club-based round the cans stuff.
Don't forget the fun and the actual sailing bit!
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Stheno I think your owner/skipper needs to take a serious chill pill if hes going on plotters and polars for white sails or even just bay sailing. Getting into that kind of racing is serious and more akin to what some guys in class 0 were up to in the naughtys when they were spending serious money campaigning in the uk, ireland and commodores cup or forking out hundreds of Ks on a new corby or kerr.
I think his long term plan is such racing
We're looking to go into class one and then ISORAs
He is a very driven person, and personally I find it very educational, and to be honest I like the maths side of it, and am learning loads, regardless
Yes he is overqualified for bay sailing, and yes he is demanding, and overqualified for it, but I consider it a pleasure to learn from someone like that.
It's down to my background, I work as a trainer in my field and as someone said to me this week, "better to learn from someone with experience than someone with knowledge"
My skipper/helm has the experience, so I'm not going to question that, and tbh, I really enjoy learning from him, while still taking lessons in sailing.
Long term I'd love to be considered someone most people would want as crew, and what I'm learning now I reckon will stand to me.0 -
HeidiHeidi wrote: »Been there, done that (ours didn't have quite so far to fall, mind you)
Love the 4th pic, lots of finger-pointing going on!
Ive broken 2 (not mine yet) My 1st was memorable. 1/2 ton cup in 2007 just of howth we hit a wave and down came the needle that had been built for an Italian lake in 1987.
Me: helm, your pinching,
Person next to me on rail: eh look behind you.
Me: oh, eh yeah mmm,
main trimmer/co-owner: some one get the cutters,
jib trimmer: but thats a brand new main
main trimmer/co-owner: cut the f***ing thing away
we were just off Howth at the back of Irelands eye after been sent on a mini offshore from Dun Laoghaire for 1/2 ton cup. We had 1 crew who we had gotten from Dun Laoghaire for the event who was stranded when we decided we,d just head back to our berth and the bar in Howth. 3 hours a few pints and alot of phone calls later a lift and kit bag arrived.
2nd was funny, I was trimming the main the D1 popped and could just see the mast bending to leeward b4 shouting masts coming down as the boat slammed to a stop. was the 2nd mast in a year that boat had lost0 -
I think his long term plan is such racing
We're looking to go into class one and then ISORAs
He is a very driven person, and personally I find it very educational, and to be honest I like the maths side of it, and am learning loads, regardless
Yes he is overqualified for bay sailing, and yes he is demanding, and overqualified for it, but I consider it a pleasure to learn from someone like that.
It's down to my background, I work as a trainer in my field and as someone said to me this week, "better to learn from someone with experience than someone with knowledge"
My skipper/helm has the experience, so I'm not going to question that, and tbh, I really enjoy learning from him, while still taking lessons in sailing.
Long term I'd love to be considered someone most people would want as crew, and what I'm learning now I reckon will stand to me.
If you want to do class 1 just get a kite up. Most boat owners wouldnt even know what the polars are for their boats and polars are never 100% right either. If you want to go ISORA racing just get a decent navigator or some one who can read a chart and compass.0 -
Ive broken 2 (not mine yet) My 1st was memorable. 1/2 ton cup in 2007 just of howth we hit a wave and down came the needle that had been built for an Italian lake in 1987.
Me: helm, your pinching,
Person next to me on rail: eh look behind you.
Me: oh, eh yeah mmm,
main trimmer/co-owner: some one get the cutters,
jib trimmer: but thats a brand new main
main trimmer/co-owner: cut the f***ing thing away
2nd was funny, I was trimming the main the D1 popped and could just see the mast bending to leeward b4 shouting masts coming down as the boat slammed to a stop. was the 2nd mast in a year that boat had lost
When ours came down, we had just tacked, and the main kept going
I didn't even realise what had happened - I was going under the boom and was facing backwards, and it was completely silent - you'd imagine a mast would crash down, but there was no sound. Well, there probably was, but it was windy as **** and I heard nothing over that!
We had a girl new to the boat going around the front of the mast who managed to hang on, and when the training kicked in and the call went up for the cutters, she dived under all the sails and managed to find it. When it came up, we grabbed it - and then thought "feck, what do we cut???" Turned out we didn't need to cut anything away - the mast had come down in once piece from the foot, and was hanging nicely alongside.
Not an experience that I'd care to repeat 0 -
this was pre americas cup with russell coutts in 2012, Interesting interview. Love the clip at 18:20
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further to talk of masts breaking came across this purpose mast break
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this was pre americas cup with russell coutts in 2012, Interesting interview. Love the clip at 18:20
Just watched that through.... he'd hardly knock you over with charisma, would he?
Seems like a nice guy - although a bit media/product obsessed. I was disappointed to hear him say that basically monohulls will NEVER feature in AC again because the media don't like them. What about the sailors/sailor viewers?
(The multihulls do provide for fairly spectacular capsizes though, I will have to admit that) 0 -
HeidiHeidi wrote: »(The multihulls do provide for fairly spectacular capsizes though, I will have to admit that)
And deaths0 -
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