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What would you do with Tim Tebow?

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    #92
    FreeOSCAR
    Registered Users Posts: 1,415 ✭✭✭FreeOSCAR


    Rochey18 wrote: »
    Tebow to the Jets wouldnt end up well. If Sanchez dosnt improve fans will be calling for Tebow to start. That wont end up well especially with the money invested in Sanchez now.

    The chants and boo boys will be out this season for Sanchez unless he shows Eli Manning like improvement after his third year.
    It's better to have someone even remotely legitimate to come in to challenge Sanchez. At the moment with Drew Stanton and Greg McElroy the Jets don't have that. I would have rathered a Jason Campbell or Kyle Orton but the Jets didn't have the cap space to afford a backup QB in the current over inflated market.
    A trade for Tebow for a low pick pick would be ideal. IMO neither are the answer but it certainly has me intrigued.


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    #93
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    Agree. Sanchez's head will be on the chopping block by November anyway. Might as well give the fans someone to gwt excited about.
    But i still think he's earned the right to be an NFL starter.


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    #94
    JohnnyRyan99
    Registered Users Posts: 4,169 ✭✭✭JohnnyRyan99


    Wouldn't like to see Tebow come to The Jets, I hope he goes to The Jags.

    Believe in the Sanchize!


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    #95
    JaMarcus Hustle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭JaMarcus Hustle


    FreeOSCAR wrote: »
    The Jets are in for him.
    Sparanos wildcat love and all that.
    Personally I'm all in for us going after him. Need someone to be breathing down Sanchez's neck and Tebow will certainly provide that.

    This can only end one way.

    Another 3 year extension for Mark Sanchez.


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    #96
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    davyjose wrote: »
    Agree. Sanchez's head will be on the chopping block by November anyway. Might as well give the fans someone to gwt excited about.
    But i still think he's earned the right to be an NFL starter.



    Increase the chance to get Matt Berkley?


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    #97
    Syferus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭Syferus


    TimThomas wrote: »
    Are you Tebow's agent by any chance? You seriously are banging on about the same thing over and over. We get it at this point, don't write off Tebow etc etc.

    Dolphins pulling out doesn't bode well for Tebow. It is beginning to look like the Jags and the Jags only who might pony up for him. Anyone else want spend too much on him if they are going to sit him on their bench.

    Its mad that many like syferus not so much on here but other boards keep saying that he will start september but when you ask them to name teams they cant and some of the teams they do mention make no sense.

    For me the Jags and Miami are the only 2 who would start him right away. Everyone else will be either the bench of camp dogfight for a starting spot.

    You then go on to name the teams I did in your quoted post. Whoops!

    Relax bro, there's plenty of time to complain about Tebow when he's taking the Jags on a miraclious streak of wins and netting them all-time attendence highs. Or maybe not? :pac:

    It's silly season in the NFL.


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    #98
    TimThomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭TimThomas


    Syferus wrote: »
    You then go on to name the teams I did in your quoted post. Whoops!

    Good to see you can read properly. And you missed my point on that. I said many like you but not so much on here but while we are on the subject in one of the many posts you keep telling us about how Tebow will start you said the following:
    Syferus wrote: »
    49ers actually makes alot of sense within the context of Harbaugh's conservative passing schemes last year.

    Completely wrong here on so many levels.
    Relax bro, there's plenty of time to complain about Tebow when he's taking the Jags on a miraclious streak of wins and netting them all-time attendence highs. Or maybe not? :pac:

    3 things wrong with this. Firstly. Why do you feel the need to say relax? Still don't get why people feel the need to use the word relax. Quite relaxed thanks.

    Secondly Im not your bro so don't call me it. And thirdly who gives a fook about Tebow anymore other than you of course considering you keep banging on about him. I honestly don't care where he goes. If he was smart he would pick a team that would groom him.


    It's silly season in the NFL.

    Ah now no need to call yourself silly.


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    #99
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Tebow in the media capital of the world

    Oh the league would love this, think of all that coverage


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    #100
    Syferus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭Syferus


    I see you're trying the 'let's be needlessly aggressive' approach, or, rather, the Rex Grossman method.


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    #101
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    TimThomas wrote: »
    And thirdly who gives a fook about Tebow anymore other than you of course considering you keep banging on about him. I honestly don't care where he goes. If he was smart he would pick a team that would groom him.
    7 pages in a few hours suggest a few people give a fook.


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    #102
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,661 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    In all fairness the lad took over a team that looked like it was going to challenge for the no.1 pick in the draft. They get to the playoffs and then this happens. I really do think he has been harshly treated here, and Alex Smith too although he is a free agent which makes it a bit different.


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    #103
    spiralism
    Registered Users Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭spiralism


    eagle eye wrote: »
    In all fairness the lad took over a team that looked like it was going to challenge for the no.1 pick in the draft. They get to the playoffs and then this happens. I really do think he has been harshly treated here, and Alex Smith too although he is a free agent which makes it a bit different.

    I'd have to agree tbh, though evidence suggests that our front office is also doing an excellent job to turn us around this quickly. Were it not for Tebow though none of this could have happened, i daresay Manning wouldnt have looked sideways at us if we were 6-10.

    If Tebow ends up with a solid team and decent coaching situation he'll be fine. Him possibly going to the Jets is intriguing, probable QB controversy with Sanchito and if he does get hold of the starting job down the line he has a defence to keep the scores down, an excellent offensive line and run game and a coach that has no problem going with the unorthodox to say the least. Would make for some viewing.


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    #104
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,165 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Please god no, we don't want or need Tebow Mania thank you very much. We've got a two year window with a half decent roster and Sanchez will get that time to try and become an above average NFL QB. If he doesn't do it, we cut him in March 2014 and engage in a complete rebuilding project.

    Denver will offload Tebow in some way, shape or form. This is their chance to do it, and Elway is too smart to pass on the opportunity.

    Tebow is shaping up to be a terrible backup the rest of his career. He requires a custom tailored offensive package, can't make all the throws to aid defensive preperation, and will have the fans screaming for him to be put in whenever there are two losses in a row. Right now the only spot that makes some sense backup wise would be Philadelphia as he could probably come in and run the same packages as Vick / Young. The Patriots would probably find innovative ways to utilise his skilset without any intention of him being groomed to start at QB, so that could work too.

    But for me, he needs to go somewhere he can start for better or worse. It's the lolphins or Los Jaguars so, and I think Los Jaguars don't give a damn about winning if they can sell the stadium out, and Tebow can offer that at the very least - so I reckon he'll end up there.

    He's probably worth a 4th round pick.


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    #105
    mooonpie
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭mooonpie


    Syferus wrote: »
    Broncos will get something for him, he's a young, hugely popular, character guy with exceptional intangibles. Play him correctly and let him grow and you've got yourself the makings of a franchise QB.<snip>
    Syferus wrote: »
    The Broncos ARE actively trading him. And he's going to be starting come week one.

    Anyone who thinks different is letting their personal opinions of Tebow cloud their judgement.
    Syferus wrote: »
    No chance of Tebow playing for a team trying to use him as anything but a real QB, he's certainly earned that respect this past year.

    You seem to be missing the point that in order to "play him correctly", the entire offence needs to be overhauled - this is going to take time. Broncos got away it last year because of the turnover of personnel (players and coaches) the last few years - they had no established offence. Also Tebow had been there for a year prior, so the personnel that were there understood his strengths!

    No team in the league runs that offence at the moment so it's not simply a case of having the right personnel, it means re-training them to a different scheme.

    Yes - Tebow showed last year he can perform and lift a team given the right situation. But this seems to be a situation few teams are willing to provide.

    I see 2 scenarios if he moves:
    1. He's a starter:
      The new team overhauls their offence and adapts to Tebow and they have a few learning issues (cue statements like "these things take time") but ultimately all goes well ... Or the personnel don't adapt and he flops.
      In this scenario there are worries:
      • What happens if Tebow gets injured? Is there a backup QB that can run the same offence? How many reps will he need to get up to speed? Will he get these behind Tebow?
      • What happens when Tebow leaves/retires? The team go through the same overhaul and rebuilding process, this time without Tebow as a seat filling attraction?
    2. He's a backup/package/project player:
      The new team continues with their established offence and uses Tebow in situational packages. In the mean time Tebow uses practice reps to improve his fundamentals.
      • He still gets occasional impact plays. The crowd go nuts when he appears.
      • Due to his improved passing game, he gets an opportunity here, or somewhere else, to lead a more conventional offence - with a Tebow twist.
    If he stays he falls into scenario 2 above also.


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    #106
    Syferus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭Syferus


    moonpie9588 wrote: »
    You seem to be missing the point that in order to "play him correctly", the entire offence needs to be overhauled - this is going to take time. Broncos got away it last year because of the turnover of personnel (players and coaches) the last few years - they had no established offence. Also Tebow had been there for a year prior, so the personnel that were there understood his strengths!

    No team in the league runs that offence at the moment so it's not simply a case of having the right personnel, it means re-training them to a different scheme.

    Yes - Tebow showed last year he can perform and lift a team given the right situation. But this seems to be a situation few teams are willing to provide.

    I see 2 scenarios if he moves:
    1. He's a starter:
      The new team overhauls their offence and adapts to Tebow and they have a few learning issues (cue statements like "these things take time") but ultimately all goes well ... Or the personnel don't adapt and he flops.
      In this scenario there are worries:
      • What happens if Tebow gets injured? Is there a backup QB that can run the same offence? How many reps will he need to get up to speed? Will he get these behind Tebow?
      • What happens when Tebow leaves/retires? The team go through the same overhaul and rebuilding process, this time without Tebow as a seat filling attraction?
    2. He's a backup/package/project player:
      The new team continues with their established offence and uses Tebow in situational packages. In the mean time Tebow uses practice reps to improve his fundamentals.
      • He still gets occasional impact plays. The crowd go nuts when he appears.
      • Due to his improved passing game, he gets an opportunity here, or somewhere else, to lead a more conventional offence - with a Tebow twist.
    If he stays he falls into scenario 2 above also.

    There's a strawman in alot of these arguments against him. If Tebow is - and I fully believe he will be - starting in the league in five years time he will be far more of a passer so worrying about what to do after he's gone is moot. The worry about having a back-up in the short term is easy enough, too, draft a Joe Webb in the late rounds of the draft or get a Garrard or a Young.

    The whole 'oh you're screwed if he gets injured' argument is over-blown as well. Teams can walk and chew gum at the same time - look at the Broncos transitioning mid-season from Orton to Tebow. The personnel were chosen for Orton and for a strong run game, that was the Broncos established - and conventional - offense going into the season. You could have a pure passer as a back-up and it could still work well if you've got good coaching. If you don't have good coaching you're screwed anyways.


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    #107
    mooonpie
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭mooonpie


    We're not talking about 5 years time, we're talking about now. And I don't see a team that is willing to take the risk for 5 years time knowing they have to overhaul everything in the mean time.

    Using Broncos sort of proves my point, they were in a state of transition anyway. They had played Tebow in a few games the year before, the personnel understood his strengths and weaknesses. Dolphins and Jags seem to be 2 teams that could make that transition without losing ground in their division, but after that I don't see a huge want for Tebow from teams in the league.

    Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Tebow as an established starter in 5 years time, but I think he's gonna need consistent coaching and surrounding for a few of those 5 years to make it. I just see too many obstacles for most teams to take that risk now.

    The guys on NFL Network made a good point last night, there's a big element of Not In My Back Yard with Tebow - we're all fascinated by him and everyone loves having him in the league, just not with our club!


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    #108
    TimThomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭TimThomas


    moonpie9588 wrote: »

    The guys on NFL Network made a good point last night, there's a big element of Not In My Back Yard with Tebow - we're all fascinated by him and everyone loves having him in the league, just not with our club!

    And that is the problem he is faced with for sure. The Fish already said no and reading some of the pundits comments many believe the Jags are 50/50 over him also. The Jags are his last shot to start everyone else will either work on him or use him as a non starter for situational plays and hope he grows in the coming years.


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    #109
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    The big problem with the Jags his the GM and headcoach don't want him. It's only the owner who is interested. This obviously brings up some pretty big issues as the owner will firstly have to over-rule his GM and second over-rule his HC and demand he starts Tebow, that's a pretty terrible way to run a franchise.


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    #110
    TimThomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭TimThomas


    Syferus wrote: »
    I see you're trying the 'let's be needlessly aggressive' approach, or, rather, the Rex Grossman method.

    Oh yeah Im being aggressive. Punching my PC here also and screaming at it. Love it when people use the aggresive tags or calm down tags or relax bro stuff. Everyone on the internet is a psychiatrist apparently. :rolleyes:

    davyjose wrote: »
    7 pages in a few hours suggest a few people give a fook.

    Your definition and my definition of a "few" are completely different. Try 8 pages in 43 hours. And not every post is about people caring about him only giving an opinion on where they think he will go. I gave my opinion on it doesnt mean I give fook about him.


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    #111
    TimThomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭TimThomas


    eagle eye wrote: »
    In all fairness the lad took over a team that looked like it was going to challenge for the no.1 pick in the draft. They get to the playoffs and then this happens. I really do think he has been harshly treated here, and Alex Smith too although he is a free agent which makes it a bit different.

    Football is business and peoples feelings get hurt and these players know their feelings mean fúck all to these teams.


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    #112
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,661 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    TimThomas wrote: »
    Football is business and peoples feelings get hurt and these players know their feelings mean fúck all to these teams.

    Who is talking about feelings? I'm talking a player coming into a team that looked like it was heading for its worst season in nearly 30 years and had just come off a 4-12 season and getting them to the divisional playoff game for only the second time since 1998. If you don't believe that he had a huge impact on what happened in Denver last season then I won't bother continuing talking to you about it.

    Imo he earned the right to start next season, if it didn't go well then you go out and do what you have to do but signing up a 36 year old who hasn't played for 14 months and coming off 4 ops on his neck and giving him a ridiculous contract just seems ludicrous to me. We'll see how they do next season but as I said earlier Elway has put all his eggs in one basket now. I certainly wouldn't have taken Manning at that price especially given the way the fans loved Tebow because the backlash should it go wrong will certainly mean the end for both Elway and Fox.

    If he had stuck with Tebow this season and things didn't go well then he gets a free pass because all he says is that the guy deserved the chance but unfortunately he is not good enough and the fans would respect him for it. Just think about it for a second, if it went horribly wrong for Tebow next season then you possibly get Barkley.


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    #113
    HigginsJ
    Registered Users Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    Think about all the quarter-backs in last years play-offs (excluding TJ Yates as he was 3rsd string n in on injury) and all of them are set as long term starters for their teams bar Tebow.

    Fair enough the Broncos took Manning and no-one can blame them but how another team cannot want Tebow to be their QB is beyond me. Had the 49ers got Manning, Smith would have walked into a multi-year, multi millon $ deal elsewhere.

    But Tebow, a play-off winning QB, who made massive plays in that play-off game against one of the leagues best D's wont be a starting QB, some people are saying he should give up being a QB altogether and become a H-Back-Wildcat hybrid player. Its ridiculous.

    There has to be at least 5-6 teams who would be improved by having Tebow as their QB, Miami, Jags, Browns, seriously need to get the finger out and Jets, Eagles, Bucs really need to consider getting him in to push their starter.

    Had the Broncos not got Manning we'd all be wondering how to build around and maximise Tebow. One off-season move cant possibly end a guys QB career.


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    #114
    Johnny_Fontane
    Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭Johnny_Fontane


    Tebow has shown that he has something special in the clutch as a qb, if he could improve (and I personally think he will) on his variety, he will be a top player.

    a starting place for him might be limited in the short term, but we will see Tebow back at some stage. Someone will take a chance.


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    #115
    TimThomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭TimThomas


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Who is talking about feelings? I'm talking a player coming into a team that looked like it was heading for its worst season in nearly 30 years and had just come off a 4-12 season and getting them to the divisional playoff game for only the second time since 1998. If you don't believe that he had a huge impact on what happened in Denver last season then I won't bother continuing talking to you about it.

    Imo he earned the right to start next season, if it didn't go well then you go out and do what you have to do but signing up a 36 year old who hasn't played for 14 months and coming off 4 ops on his neck and giving him a ridiculous contract just seems ludicrous to me. We'll see how they do next season but as I said earlier Elway has put all his eggs in one basket now. I certainly wouldn't have taken Manning at that price especially given the way the fans loved Tebow because the backlash should it go wrong will certainly mean the end for both Elway and Fox.

    If he had stuck with Tebow this season and things didn't go well then he gets a free pass because all he says is that the guy deserved the chance but unfortunately he is not good enough and the fans would respect him for it. Just think about it for a second, if it went horribly wrong for Tebow next season then you possibly get Barkley.


    All of this above because I said football is a business. You said Harshly treated and the NFL as I said is a business. It may be harsh that Tebow loses out where Denver are concerned but its a business. What people deserve and what people actually get are two different things. If Denver feel they need to go in another direction so be it.

    As for the rest of what you said I fail to see what it has to do with what I said. What I think about Tebow has no bearing on what I said when I quoted you. None at all in fact. So I dont know why you feel the need to go down that road.

    Especially this:
    If you don't believe that he had a huge impact on what happened in Denver last season then I won't bother continuing talking to you about it.

    So what if I do or don't. Its a moot point as Denver have made their decision. How I feel about Tebow's contribution there is now irrelevant.

    I will add like others in here you especially you can't talk about Tebow without bringing up the old arguments of what he did. Even if the conversation has nothing to do with performance you seem fit in bringing it up. And you can't help yourself trying to use the "oh you dont like Tebow" so your opinion is stupid.


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    #116
    Syferus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭Syferus


    So you shouldn't bring up that a player has proven he can win games, being instrumental in dragging a basement-bound team into the play-offs when you're talking about if he'll find a new home? Are you for real?


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    #117
    me-skywalker
    Registered Users Posts: 3,339 ✭✭✭me-skywalker


    TimThomas closes his account in a fiting tribute to Tim closing his account out with Denver. Matyrism on the internet alive.

    So the Jags are out of the running early. Will Tim be stranded? McCarthy said he would love to develop him in Green Bay. Would Thompson sanction the insanity the Packers would incur or was this a mere off the cuff statement by McCarthy? Would any other Florida team take the gamble? The Bucs 2 years ago seemed fresh and looking positive, after last years regression would they take the risk to scrap their play book and adapt they still plenty have cap space to tempt a shot at some big names over the next 2/3 seasons? Dolphins won't go near him with Philbin as Coach. I don't see Tebows outs as easy as others, will he accept the bench, he doesn't deserve the bench. Can he get a start in the CFL?


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    #118
    vetinari
    Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭vetinari


    Tebow will start somewhere else imo. This talk about having to dramtically overhaul your offence or not having a capable back up is overrated.

    The Broncos as mentioned weren't built around Tebow. They started the season with Orton.

    Secondly, most teams backups suck anyways. No one realistically plans to succeed with their backup. TJ Yates for instance did well when he came in. However, the Texans dreams of winning a superbowl evaporated when Schaub went down.

    My guess is the Jags will take him. They'd be nuts not to.


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    #119
    neilster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 719 ✭✭✭neilster


    Nice to see that Tebow isnt controversial :)

    The Jags have to be in the rpime position, its sounds like the Owner is warming to the notion....Blaine Gabbert is toast ...he feels a rush that isnt coming

    The word is Gene Smith may be on his way out at GM after the draft , they need a DE across from the re-signed Jeremy Mincey , the chatter is that Quintin Coples (the more talented DE but lazy at times) will be ignored by Smith and Melvin Ingram (he of the insect length arms) is viewed as the safer pick, Perry & others are a reach ....If Coples is picked Smith isnt doing the picking , the owner is and he may step in and do his best Bud Adams impression with bushy moustache...definitely moustache of the NFL award

    Friends of Tebow saying he'd like Florida so the Jags i think


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    #120
    HigginsJ
    Registered Users Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    vetinari wrote: »
    Tebow will start somewhere else imo. This talk about having to dramtically overhaul your offence or not having a capable back up is overrated.

    The Broncos as mentioned weren't built around Tebow. They started the season with Orton.

    Secondly, most teams backups suck anyways. No one realistically plans to succeed with their backup. TJ Yates for instance did well when he came in. However, the Texans dreams of winning a superbowl evaporated when Schaub went down.

    My guess is the Jags will take him. They'd be nuts not to.

    I couldn't agree more with you but it seems they may be nuts. The new coach isn't keen on him at all. The GM invested a 1st and 2nd round pick in Gabbert last year. Don't underestimate how self interested these guys are. No GM wants to see his hand-picked franchise QB that he traded up for fail.

    The owner wants him but seems to be stepping back as he doesnt want to override his coach and GM. Ridiculous situation as he could do a great job with MJD and a decent wide-out (Michael Floyd) but it seems less and less likely to be the Jags.


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    #121
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    HigginsJ wrote: »
    I couldn't agree more with you but it seems they may be nuts. The new coach isn't keen on him at all. The GM invested a 1st and 2nd round pick in Gabbert last year. Don't underestimate how self interested these guys are. No GM wants to see his hand-picked franchise QB that he traded up for fail.

    The owner wants him but seems to be stepping back as he doesnt want to override his coach and GM. Ridiculous situation as he could do a great job with MJD and a decent wide-out (Michael Floyd) but it seems less and less likely to be the Jags.


    How could he do a decent job? He didn't really do a decent job in Denver. It's going to be difficult to find coaches who want a guy who can't throw the ball to be their starting QB, especially when they are basically being told that wins don't really matter and they have to do it just to sell tickets. Not to mention how damaging it would be for the players to be basically told that that selling out tickets is more important than winning, what free agent would ever want to sign up for a situation like that?


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