Sinn fein- the new nazi party?

Mighty_Mouse · 25-06-2004 2:41pm

Posted by Brigadiar:
I really hope Ireland endures the four horseman of the apocalypse and that you all die alone and unhappy

I'm sorry you had a bad experience over here but look for the silver lining! Now you have a more complete understanding of why the Irish really dislike the english. Signs like "no dogs, no Irish", and "stupid mick" "paddy" were all endured in recent years by the Irish in England. And thats not even getting into the politics!

Goodbye!

Surely they have internet in England but if you continue to post we'll know what you really think and that could be a problem!:eek:

The Brigadier · 25-06-2004 2:52pm

Well Mighty Mouse, I'll certainly view Irish people in a different light for the rest of my life. Not a favourable one...

Again you seem to make excuses for everything...The reason I have been subjected to racial hatred in Ireland is because of the fact that some Irish people encountered that in England...

Seems very similar to your mantra on IRA/Sinn Fein punishment beatings in the north - it's OK because someone else did it as well...

I'm surprised you haven't wished me off with a nice burst of "Brits out or up the 'ra"..... Thank you for showing restaint.

oscarBravo · 25-06-2004 2:55pm

Originally posted by The Brigadier
Well Mighty Mouse, I'll certainly view Irish people in a different light for the rest of my life. Not a favourable one...

I take it you had an unpleasant experience here recently. I sympathise, but it just doesn't make any sense to form an opinion of Irish people as a whole on the basis of it.

The Brigadier · 25-06-2004 3:07pm

Well I have had 16 years of unpleasant experiences....

but in all fairness my country invaded Ireland so I probably deserved it all.....

Villain · 25-06-2004 3:08pm

Well I haven't been on much lately because I started a new role where I'm away from the PC alot.

However I see things haven't changed, SF are still getting bashed on a daily basis.

Well as I said in the title of the last thread I started

You keep bashing and we'l keep growing

Mr Melody I can't say I'm sorry you have said goodbye, you have been totally ignorant to SF.

You can stand still with your beliefs and hold them to the day you die, but SF is moving forward, helping to bring peace to this Island and offering the people of Ireland and alternative to so called Republican party that is FF who have lied to us over and over and have failed to bridge the gap between the poor and rich in our soceity.

In regards to some Irish people not liking the English, you do realise a large number of people from other contrys don't like the English too. The Scottish and French spring to mind.

I wonder if your country was oppressed for 800 years what feelings you would have towards the people of that country, I'm not saying it's right but you have to see why some people feel the way they do.

sceptre · 25-06-2004 3:23pm

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Awe, diddums... are the nasty city slickers making fun of your webbed toes again..?

Eh? What now? Who bit you?

The Brigadier · 25-06-2004 3:25pm

Seeing as I am going I have decided to read some of your drivel...

Sinn Fein still have a terrorist wing.....As long as you are happy with that I will hold you and other Sinn Fein supporters in the utmost of contempt..When they want to grow up and realise that terrorism is a course worthy of nothing but contempt, then maybe I will treat them with a little respect. Until then you and your terrorist supporting chums will not be viewed with respect by me.

At least back home I will have less of this doodoo to worry about....

Oh, and why do you insist on calling me by my surname and not by my handle? I don't see you referring to other people by their surnames? Why am I signalled out for this special treatment?

Villain · 25-06-2004 3:32pm

Originally posted by The Brigadier
Oh, and why do you insist on calling me by my surname and not by my handle? I don't see you referring to other people by their surnames? Why am I signalled out for this special treatment?

I'm just simply referring to your old nick i.e James Melody

Oh and nice of you to reply even if only to some of my post.

bonkey · 25-06-2004 3:45pm

I'd be an awful lot happier if a lot of the snideness and baiting was given a rest, lest the responsible parties start finding themselves banned.

If you can't express your opinion without denigrating those who happen to disagree with you, then don't bother posting here.

jc

The Brigadier · 25-06-2004 3:52pm

Originally posted by irish1
I'm just simply referring to your old nick i.e James Melody

Oh and nice of you to reply even if only to some of my post.

And why not use my current nick?

The Corinthian · 25-06-2004 4:15pm

Originally posted by irish1
You keep bashing and we'l keep growing

Don’t you think you’re being a bit presumptive? While SF has been improving it’s representation over the last decade, its recent successes were more to do with a protest vote than a sudden, magical surge in support. It’s a protest vote that all the political parties have benefited from in the past and you’ll find it’ll go elsewhere in the next election.

After all, if the electorate really supported SF as would be claimed with the local elections, why did that same electorate not support SF policy on the referendum too?

You can stand still with your beliefs and hold them to the day you die, but SF is moving forward, helping to bring peace to this Island and offering the people of Ireland and alternative to so called Republican party that is FF who have lied to us over and over and have failed to bridge the gap between the poor and rich in our soceity.

Thank you for the party political broadcast.

In regards to some Irish people not liking the English, you do realise a large number of people from other contrys don't like the English too. The Scottish and French spring to mind.

Not to the same level as the Irish. I was somewhat disgusted by the attitude of many yesterday who were supporting Portugal, not because they wanted Portugal to win, but because they wanted England to lose.

As Brendan Behan once said “Other people have a nationality. The Irish and the Jews have a psychosis.”

I wonder if your country was oppressed for 800 years what feelings you would have towards the people of that country, I'm not saying it's right but you have to see why some people feel the way they do.

The educational system, in particular in primary school, here is ridiculous with its level of Anglophobic propaganda. I’m not surprised there’s a predisposition to hate the English with the often dubious historical facts that are presented to children from an early age.

TBH, if we hadn’t had a Famine, we probably would have had to invent one.

Originally posted by sceptre
Eh? What now? Who bit you?

Well... all right, I was being a bit mischievous. It’s Friday after all.

Villain · 25-06-2004 7:20pm

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Don’t you think you’re being a bit presumptive? While SF has been improving it’s representation over the last decade, its recent successes were more to do with a protest vote than a sudden, magical surge in support. It’s a protest vote that all the political parties have benefited from in the past and you’ll find it’ll go elsewhere in the next election.

After all, if the electorate really supported SF as would be claimed with the local elections, why did that same electorate not support SF policy on the referendum too?

I disagree if it was a protest vote the votes would have went to other partys also, SF got it's supporters out, believe me SF will keep growing.

Originally posted by The Corinthian

Thank you for the party political broadcast.

Anytime

Originally posted by The Corinthian

Not to the same level as the Irish. I was somewhat disgusted by the attitude of many yesterday who were supporting Portugal, not because they wanted Portugal to win, but because they wanted England to lose.

Well it varies, perhaps the Irish feel they have more reason to hate them

Originally posted by The Corinthian

The educational system, in particular in primary school, here is ridiculous with its level of Anglophobic propaganda. I’m not surprised there’s a predisposition to hate the English with the often dubious historical facts that are presented to children from an early age.

So you think the hatred comes more from the way history is thought rather than the actual events? also I dont know what facts are thought that are DUBIOUS!

Originally posted by The Corinthian

TBH, if we hadn’t had a Famine, we probably would have had to invent one.

Thats something I've often heard been quoted and I honestly think its a very stupid analogy.

swiss · 25-06-2004 8:06pm

Originally posted by irish1:

I disagree if it was a protest vote the votes would have went to other partys also, SF got it's supporters out, believe me SF will keep growing.

Votes did go to other parties. FG managed to beat FF nationally for the first time ever. Labour too increased their vote (albeit slightly). I am willing to accept that Sinn Féins gains weren't all to do with people registering a protest vote, but by the same extension of logic neither were the gains of the other parties involved.

Sinn Féin are of course delighted with this, and indeed they have every right to be, but just because they have tripled thier vote from one election to another doesn't necessarily mean that they will do the same in the next. However, no matter how well they poll, that will not change my opinion of the party or of thier subversive, criminal and terrorist links.

Originally posted by The Corinthian:

I was somewhat disgusted by the attitude of many yesterday who were supporting Portugal, not because they wanted Portugal to win, but because they wanted England to lose.

Holding a grudge against England appears sometimes to be a national pastime. I can understand that people have a historical basis for the animosity they hold towards England, but to hold a nation and it's people responsible for the sins of their ancestors is just wrong. With regards to the match, I did not care who won as I do not follow soccer. However, from what I heard (from who I would consider a reasonably impartial source) England were denied a perfectly good goal. It is a source of some confusion to me when people profess to have a love for a game, and then rejoice when an "unfair" result materialises due to a mistake made by a referee of the game.

For what it is worth, The Brigadier, I am sorry that you have been subjected to abuse due to your nationality, and I wish you well in your return to England.

monument · 25-06-2004 9:39pm

Originally posted by The Brigadier
Well Mighty Mouse, I'll certainly view Irish people in a different light for the rest of my life. Not a favourable one...

Again, you seem to make excuses for everything...The reason I have been subjected to racial hatred in Ireland is because of the fact that some Irish people encountered that in England...

And round, round the lovely circle of hatred goes – if you see it as wrong for people to judge you because you are English, or blame you for something your country did – why not break the circle, and view people one by one?

Anyway, I hope your reason for leaving Ireland is not racism, but either way I hope you have a good trip home.

daveirl · 25-06-2004 10:32pm

This post has been deleted.

The Real B-man · 25-06-2004 10:42pm

Originally posted by Agent Orange

If you want to vote for a republican party then vote for a proper republican party - even Fianna Fail. At least they don't kill people.

They do waiting lists for hospitals!!!

Sparks · 25-06-2004 11:07pm

Originally posted by daveirl
I like to see Kerry lose in GAA

*breaks metaphorical chair over dave's head*

Cork · 25-06-2004 11:31pm

Originally posted by The Real B-man
They do waiting lists for hospitals!!!

Hoe many people did the IRA put in hospital?

How many punishment beatings are they involved with?

What is the differance between Joe Higgins's - Socialist party and SF?

People don't really vote for SF on their transport, eduacational & taxation policies.

SF was the party that could never condemn the IRA. Why?

It complains about a lot. But never the IRA?

When Tony Blair & Bertie get the Peace Process back on track. Northern Ireland will no longer be an issue in the Republic. SF accepts the partition of Ireland. It maintains offices in westminister. It participated in an 6 county assembly.

But no political party should have links to organisations involved in criminality.

What is the justification of racketeering?

Getting money for who or what exactly?

cdebru · 25-06-2004 11:42pm

the orignal poster on this thread
is very simplistic
first of all sinn fein would class themselves as a republican socialist party not
a nationalist party
and to suggest that
if you are a socialist you can not be nationalist or that makes you a nazi is just plain stupid
what makes someone a nazi
is their beliefs not their name

Time Magazine · 26-06-2004 12:02am

As I wrote on another thread, I see Sinn Féin as the Irish Fascist party.

I see Sinn Féin as a form of Fascist, essentially. Think about it, look at the similarities
-private army,
-ardent nationalism,
-undertones of the great right "our people" have of an area of land
-connections to international paramilitaries
-in the grass-roots, vigilantéism and organised prostitution
-scare-mongering tactics
-calls for release of "political" murderers
-Promise of being radical, the "only radical choice"

Gerry Adams is smart. He knows that if he puts on a anti-racism face and denies any paramilitary connections and calls for a Europe of equals he's going to get the working-class vote. Let's be realistic, there is no way socialism would ever come into Ireland look at the alliance with EU, WTO, the US, the power IBEC hold and complete captialist mind-frame in the country at the moment. We're not a socialist state and we never will be, not least because socialism has not and will not work. I think Sinn Féin have put on a face of Left-wing politics purely for politics. They're far too close to Extreme Right for me to believe that they are actually Left.

And Hitler's "National Socialists" were not socialists, as cdebru rightly pointed out. And if you want any more proof that Gerry Adams is the Irish equivalent of Adolf Hitler - look at the beard, man. Scary.

monument · 26-06-2004 12:45am

Originally posted by Cork
Hoe many people did the IRA put in hospital?
How many punishment beatings are they involved with?

Too many.

Originally posted by Cork
People don't really vote for SF on their transport, eduacational & taxation policies.

Some people do. Have you asked every one?

As do people vote for the Green’s wacky green ideas :rolleyes:

(on a side note, I hope no one voted for FF on their transport or education policies)

Originally posted by Cork
What is the differance between Joe Higgins's - Socialist party and SF?

The most notable is that SF have links to a paramilitary.

Originally posted by Cork
SF was the party that could never condemn the IRA. Why?

It complains about a lot. But never the IRA?

Something to with have links to a paramilitary, apparently.

Originally posted by Cork
When Tony Blair & Bertie get the Peace Process back on track. Northern Ireland will no longer be an issue in the Republic.

Wow, it’s we care about the north season – how refreshing.

Originally posted by Cork
SF accepts the partition of Ireland. It maintains offices in westminister. It participated in an 6 county assembly.

What does any of that have to do with anything? If I say “I accept it may rain tomorrow”, I’m not suggesting how I feel about the rain. Are you somehow trying to tell me SF have SUDDENLY change their goal of a all Ireland government – was this on the news tonight or something????

Originally posted by Cork
But no political party should have links to organisations involved in criminality.

So then, Mr Ahern should end his friendship with his “good friend” Mr Bush and the current US presidential organisation? Maybe not – there’s Irish jobs at stake. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Cork
What is the justification of racketeering?

If such was true, I’m sure they want money – for a justification you’ll have to ask the IRA.

Originally posted by Cork
Getting money for who or what exactly?

The mystery continues. :rolleyes:

The Corinthian · 26-06-2004 2:37am

Originally posted by irish1
I disagree if it was a protest vote the votes would have went to other partys also, SF got it's supporters out, believe me SF will keep growing.

Outside of the fact that that statement makes little sense in the English language, I never said that SF’s support would not continue growing, but I did dispute that the local elections were any real evidence of this.

Anytime

I think you missed the point, which was that you were regurgitating meaningless propaganda. You didn’t actually state any discernable fact.

Well it varies, perhaps the Irish feel they have more reason to hate them

Do we really? All tied in to the 800 years you personally experienced, no doubt?

So you think the hatred comes more from the way history is thought rather than the actual events? also I dont know what facts are thought that are DUBIOUS!

You’ve not really studied history and how it can be manipulated, have you? Or any of the studies of periods such as the Famine and Act of Union by modern historians either?

Thats something I've often heard been quoted and I honestly think its a very stupid analogy.

Other than because you disagree with it, why so? Put it in words.

joe. · 26-06-2004 3:47am

live in dundalk town for a little while. or somewhere like forkhill. i think forkhill would be better. then you'l see what sinn féin stand up for. inequality in the island of ireland.

Villain · 26-06-2004 10:44am

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Outside of the fact that that statement makes little sense in the English language, I never said that SF’s support would not continue growing, but I did dispute that the local elections were any real evidence of this.

What I meant was that if it was a protest vote people would have voted anything other than FF, which in my mind would have seen a large increase for all partys, the fact that Sinn Fein got the major increase shows that people weren't simply voting against the government they were voting for SF. Sorry if my english doesn't match your intelligence.

Originally posted by The Corinthian

I think you missed the point, which was that you were regurgitating meaningless propaganda. You didn’t actually state any discernable fact.

I was replying to another poster it wasn't meant as a general comment to everyone.

Originally posted by The Corinthian

Do we really? All tied in to the 800 years you personally experienced, no doubt?

Just because people may not have suffered themselves doesn't mean they no right to be angry at what happened to family in past times, as I have said I'm not saying this is right I'm simply stating why I believe some people have such hatred.

Originally posted by The Corinthian

You’ve not really studied history and how it can be manipulated, have you? Or any of the studies of periods such as the Famine and Act of Union by modern historians either??

So the Plantation of Ulster never occurred?? Irish people were never denied their right to speak Irish or practice religion by a ruling British Empire???
Their maybe some fine detail that can be manipulated but the bare facts remain the same!

Originally posted by The Corinthian

Other than because you disagree with it, why so? Put it in words

I could never see Ireland wanting to invent a time where its population fell from 8 million to 5 million mainly due to death or emigration as the result of a famine???

26-06-2004 11:37am

Originally posted by irish1
What I meant was that if it was a protest vote people would have voted anything other than FF, which in my mind would have seen a large increase for all partys, the fact that Sinn Fein got the major increase shows that people weren't simply voting against the government they were voting for SF. Sorry if my english doesn't match your intelligence.

Not necessarally.
1989 saw the protest vote go to one party,the progressive democrats, believe it or not.
1992 saw it largely go to the labour party, only to have it get a kick in the face when they went into coalition with Fianna Fáil.
And more recently in the UK, the protest vote went to UKIP and not the Tories.
That last example just shows the strange nature of an electorate as that party would like greater ties with the U.S and indeed one of it's newly elected M.E.P's is an American which sort of goes against the anti GWB trend.

Regarding protest votes not going to all non FF parties,it's not really true to say that either
Fine Gael and Labour did very well in the last election, gaining M.E.P's and holding the majority for the first time in years on many councils.
FG are now the largest party for instance in my own county and wexford and Labour are on two of Dublins councils, displacing FF.

The Corinthian · 26-06-2004 12:13pm

Originally posted by irish1
What I meant was that if it was a protest vote people would have voted anything other than FF, which in my mind would have seen a large increase for all partys, the fact that Sinn Fein got the major increase shows that people weren't simply voting against the government they were voting for SF.

Historically that’s not how it works. Protest votes have tended to go in favour of one or two parties, creating a temporary landslide that almost completely dissolves in subsequent elections. The best example of this would be Labour’s massive increase in the 1992 general election where they more than doubled their share of the vote from 9.5% to 19.3%. By the 1997 election this landslide was decimated bringing them back down to 10.4% of the vote. Patricia McKenna is another example of this when she originally benefited from a protest vote when first elected, topping the poll with 14.5% of the vote in 1994.

If you go through past election results you’ll find numerous examples if this type of voting behaviour.

Additionally, as I’ve already observed (and you ignored), were this a focused increase in support for SF and her policies, then why did the same electorate that voted SF apparently disregard SF’s call for a no vote in the referendum?

Sorry if my english doesn't match your intelligence.

I was simply pointing out that what you wrote didn’t make any sense in the language, regardless of anyone’s intellect.

I was replying to another poster it wasn't meant as a general comment to everyone.

Unless there was a hidden message meant only for that poster, it wouldn’t stop others from commenting on its complete lack of tangible content.

Just because people may not have suffered themselves doesn't mean they no right to be angry at what happened to family in past times, as I have said I'm not saying this is right I'm simply stating why I believe some people have such hatred.

The problem as I can see it is not that you are presenting the “800 years of oppression” as a reason for such antipathy, but that you seem to believe it to be a justification for it - you’re not saying it’s right, but you’re also conveniently not saying it’s wrong, either.

So the Plantation of Ulster never occurred?? Irish people were never denied their right to speak Irish or practice religion by a ruling British Empire???

I never said any of those events did not occur. How exactly they occurred is another matter.

Their maybe some fine detail that can be manipulated but the bare facts remain the same!

So it’s all right to manipulate some of the fine detail? I would have though that the fine detail also constituted as fact.

IMHO, the greatest manipulation of Irish history is not of facts or details but in its melodramatic and divisive delivery. The Irish educational system has had a long tradition of teaching Irish history as ‘800 years of oppression, and nothing else’. You have to read some of the primary school history books that I would have used in the 70’s to realise what level of Anglophobia we were already programming into children at an early age.

I could never see Ireland wanting to invent a time where its population fell from 8 million to 5 million mainly due to death or emigration as the result of a famine???

Today, the famine has become a core national justification for Anglophobia. Surely a few fine details shouldn’t get in the way of that?

Yet the most recent studies have indicated that a larger proportion of those emigrated than previously thought, and that the Famine, which incidentally was pan-European and not limited to Ireland, caused similar devastation in other nations too.

Cork · 26-06-2004 1:39pm

Originally posted by irish1

I could never see Ireland wanting to invent a time where its population fell from 8 million to 5 million mainly due to death or emigration as the result of a famine???

But what about the deatths and distruction caused by the IRA?

What about the links that organisation has with SF?

SF has never spelt out the nature or extent of the links. If I am wrong on this - could you provide me with a link.

SF accepts partition. SF sit in a NI assembly and know that they will be no change in the statusof NI without the consent of those who live there.

SFspeak about the unity of this country is nonsense. SF/IRA have not been known for bringing the traditions of this island together. Gerry reminding us that the IRA has not gone away is an example of this.

Maybe SF needs a fresh leadership.

monument · 26-06-2004 2:05pm

Originally posted by Cork
But what about the deatths and distruction caused by the IRA?

What about it?

Originally posted by Cork
What about the links that organisation has with SF?

Would you like if the IRA were all guns and bombs with no talk? - maybe that's what you want?

Originally posted by Cork
SF accepts partition.

Could you go back and read my last reply?

David-[RLD]- · 26-06-2004 2:26pm

Originally posted by Cork
But what about the deatths and distruction caused by the IRA?

Last time I checked, the IRA hadn't killed over a million people. The Famine did.

The Corinthian · 26-06-2004 2:46pm

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-
Last time I checked, the IRA hadn't killed over a million people.

So when do you reckon their body count starts being unacceptable then?

10,000?

100,000?

500,000?

Maybe half a million is an acceptable cut-off point for you...

Sinn fein- the new nazi party?

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