The M50 Barrier Free Tolling Thread

Steve · 08-10-2008 12:09pm

j2dab wrote: »

Quick Question - What is the general traffic like on the M50 these days?Between 8 and 10am heading northbound does the traffic start before the toll bridge or after?

and how is the traffic between 4 and 5pm heading southbound?

It depends where you are.

I head north from the M11 to the Sandyford exit around 5 - 6pm and the southbound traffic is nearly always at a standstill for most of that journey.

nava · 08-10-2008 2:03pm

j2dab wrote: »

Quick Question - What is the general traffic like on the M50 these days?Between 8 and 10am heading northbound does the traffic start before the toll bridge or after?

and how is the traffic between 4 and 5pm heading southbound?

I drive northbound from Firhouse to Blanch and no traffic but I can see is starting to build at the Blannch exit because it goes down to 2 lanes. Not sure after that.

Back around 5pm no much traffic so get to drive at about 100 kph

Sizzler · 08-10-2008 5:38pm

salamander27 wrote: »

I was just browsing around the eflow site and came across the box where you can pay your unpayed tolls. I put in my UTN in the box and up came my details, name, address, email, car reg, time of passing etc.

So out of curiosity I put in a similar random number and I got somebody elses details quite easily.

You too can try it here
https://csc.eflow.ie/violationprocess/violationSignOn.aspx

This website is seriously lax when it comes to security and privacy. I'm no internet wizard but i have heard of programs that can input numbers into these boxes and collect such data quite easily.
I'm lucky i dont have to use the bridge often but i going to avoid it from now on and go through the city centre like in the good ol days!:rolleyes:

I saw your post and couldnt believe how many people didnt really appreciate how serious this was !

Its now made the papers !

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/motoring/outcry-as-m50-drivers-details-show-up-on-toll-road-website-1492543.html

I can guarantee you one thing, there is no way the NRA went to the DPC about this first!

salamander27 · 08-10-2008 8:39pm

I wonder does anybody from the Indo read these posts?

I heard a fellow from the NRA on "the right hook" today stating that the information that could be accessed wasn't of great importance and tried to trivialise the situation. The cheek! :mad:

Any way he said it was sorted and from now on, as thay have removed the option of seeing the details, but you can "dispute" the fines or charges for everyone and claim they were not on the road or the car was sold or such excuse. ( not that i'd do such a thing!):)

Perhaps they should have a system were you enter a reg no aswell as the code like they do for the car tax online system.

Seth Brundle · 08-10-2008 9:15pm

The NRA are pretty much denying all allegations made about the BFT system.

Sizzler · 09-10-2008 8:44am

salamander27 wrote: »

I wonder does anybody from the Indo read these posts?

I heard a fellow from the NRA on "the right hook" today stating that the information that could be accessed wasn't of great importance and tried to trivialise the situation. The cheek! :mad:

Any way he said it was sorted and from now on, as thay have removed the option of seeing the details, but you can "dispute" the fines or charges for everyone and claim they were not on the road or the car was sold or such excuse. ( not that i'd do such a thing!):)

Perhaps they should have a system were you enter a reg no aswell as the code like they do for the car tax online system.

Don't be giving them ideas

kbannon wrote: »

The NRA are pretty much denying all allegations made about the BFT system.

Unreal, civil service though, what do you expect? Value for money, efficiency, competance..

getz · 09-10-2008 10:49am

i have got myself a tom tom xl sat system -has anyone used one to get out of dublin and avoid the tolls?i will be going to bray from the ferries

L1011 · 09-10-2008 11:51am

You would never go through the M50 toll to Bray from either ferry port.

If Dublin Port:
Out of port, do not follow the initial N11 signs as these bring you over the (cheap, admittedly) tolled East Link bridge. Continue down the quays and follow the N11 signs from there.

If Dun Laoighaire:
Follow signs for N11 from front of port.

getz · 09-10-2008 12:11pm

thanks myob

thebman · 09-10-2008 3:17pm

salamander27 wrote: »

I wonder does anybody from the Indo read these posts?

I heard a fellow from the NRA on "the right hook" today stating that the information that could be accessed wasn't of great importance and tried to trivialise the situation. The cheek! :mad:

Any way he said it was sorted and from now on, as thay have removed the option of seeing the details, but you can "dispute" the fines or charges for everyone and claim they were not on the road or the car was sold or such excuse. ( not that i'd do such a thing!):)

Perhaps they should have a system were you enter a reg no aswell as the code like they do for the car tax online system.

Someone should definitely code up something to attack the dispute system by flooding it with random disputes

Then we'll see how important it is

Berty · 09-10-2008 3:47pm

getz wrote: »

i have got myself a tom tom xl sat system -has anyone used one to get out of dublin and avoid the tolls?i will be going to bray from the ferries

It would never happen like a poster has already said. Your going south not west.

But anyway, I have a Tom Tom years and the operating system is the same. If the system knows the toll plaza is on your route it will ask you would you like to avoid it.

A big red screen with a YES / NO. You decide. For me going Limerick to Dundalk it I say no it brings me down the quays and If I press re-calcultate it will bring me up the midlands through mullingar. If I press it again, it brings me through Sligo. Those things are mad.

Tom Tom are easy, you will quickly get the hang of it.

Anyway you wont hit a toll going to Bray.

leon8v · 09-10-2008 4:12pm

Sizzler wrote: »

I saw your post and couldnt believe how many people didnt really appreciate how serious this was !

Its now made the papers !

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/motoring/outcry-as-m50-drivers-details-show-up-on-toll-road-website-1492543.html

I can guarantee you one thing, there is no way the NRA went to the DPC about this first!

I sent an email also to the Data Protection Commission on this either last week or early this week. I got a response the other day, here is what they said to me.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention. The National Roads Authority has also brought this matter to our attention and we are satisfied that it is treating this matter seriously. We have been informed that they are taking immediate steps to remove the name and address details and we expect that to be done without delay. It is also examining how to introduce an additional confirmation field on the submit screen to ensure that the confidential journey details of users of the M50 are held confidentially. We understand that this will be implemented as soon as possible and within the coming days. I hope that this is of assistance. Regards

mobpd · 09-10-2008 9:29pm

I just rang the eflow "customer service" to ask on what date the direct debit I have set up for my post pay video account will be taken each month. The first asnswer I got was "I cannot answer that because our systems are down at the moment" - when I said why does this mean you cant answer the question, they went to ask a manager and then the reply was "anytime during the month". I gave up as they obviously have little clue.
Surely they must have a fixed date each month when they collect the direct debit payments - anyone out here know???

Berty · 09-10-2008 10:25pm

I got my within 24 hours call today after 4 days from the guys in Newry.

He said he wasnt sure why he was calling me. Why bother so???

I rang to wonder why I was not being charged travelling north to south on the M50. I get charged on every other Toll road with my Eazypass tag(original ones).

He said he would post the information on the system but was not understanding what I was getting worried about.

I suggested because it was not "correct" for me not to be charged because it will eventually cause problems down the road. My company gets the letters not me so I dont want my company getting the letters.

He said "oh well, if somethings wrong you will get a letter, if not then its all ok".

Yeah because thats the correct way to run a business. Let us all of not paying the Tolls!!!!!!

I know most of us would prefer that but hell I shouldnt be different.

leon8v · 10-10-2008 9:01am

mobpd wrote: »

I just rang the eflow "customer service" to ask on what date the direct debit I have set up for my post pay video account will be taken each month. The first asnswer I got was "I cannot answer that because our systems are down at the moment" - when I said why does this mean you cant answer the question, they went to ask a manager and then the reply was "anytime during the month". I gave up as they obviously have little clue.
Surely they must have a fixed date each month when they collect the direct debit payments - anyone out here know???

Mine came out on the 12th September for August (all two days that it was operational) I had only gone through it once so it was only €2 (post paid tag account), Over TWO WEEKS LATER I received my statement by email telling me what they had taken out of my account on the 12th. Whole thing is a complete farce.

Sizzler · 10-10-2008 9:16am

brim4brim wrote: »

Someone should definitely code up something to attack the dispute system by flooding it with random disputes

Then we'll see how important it is

I just had a look at my "citations" online and they are already disputed, oh well

Heroditas · 10-10-2008 10:41am

Folks - quick question. I signed up for Eazypass in the middle of August and have yet to be able to view a statement online. When are they made availabel for viewing? I need it to claim back the tolls from work at some point in the next while. Many thanks.

whiterebel · 10-10-2008 10:44am

I have been charged by EFlow already despite having a DirectRoute tag on the car (in the correct place, you twat Noel Dempsey). When I received half the amazon rainforest in an envelope,I rang them and they said it was probably incorrectly mounted. I asked her how that worked considering I had been through the M50 before and it worked fine. She then said they had a problem with other operators tags.........Obviously she missed the bit where I told her it had worked before.

Went up and down to Dublin in the day on Tuesday, no beep either direction, so I guess I had better advise the postman to beef up in readiness.

delly · 10-10-2008 10:48am

Heroditas wrote: »

Folks - quick question. I signed up for Eazypass in the middle of August and have yet to be able to view a statement online. When are they made availabel for viewing? I need it to claim back the tolls from work at some point in the next while. Many thanks.

Forget about the statements, they are as frequent as the DART is to Drogheda. What I did was copied and pasted the 'View Transactions' trips for the relevant period and put them in Excel, then giving the printout to accounts. In saying that tho' they could have been stricter on insisting that it was an official Eazypass document.

Heroditas · 10-10-2008 11:04am

Sweet! I was wondering whether to do that or not ... but desperate times etc. :P

leon8v · 10-10-2008 12:21pm

delly wrote: »

Forget about the statements, they are as frequent as the DART is to Drogheda. What I did was copied and pasted the 'View Transactions' trips for the relevant period and put them in Excel, then giving the printout to accounts. In saying that tho' they could have been stricter on insisting that it was an official Eazypass document.

Well on one of my many phonecalls to Eflow since this farce started, they told me not to worry about what was on the "view transactions" page as it mightnt be up to date and it might not reflect what the actual situation is. I couldnt believe what I was hearing but there you are!!!

Sizzler · 10-10-2008 6:00pm

Good article.

http://www.herald.ie/opinion/columnists/sinead-ryan/big-brother-has-his-eye-on-us-at-every-toll-road-1495216.html

By Sinead Ryan, Herald wrote:

Friday October 10 2008

The parents were worried about the whole barrier-free tolling thing. And who could blame them?

There were dire warnings, fines and even jail threatened if you didn't organise yourself properly. There were tags, registrations, a bewildering array of 'operators' to choose from, different charges, scanners, shops to pay in, credit cards to use -- it's no wonder that people are still confused.

For an older couple not used to using the internet and worried about even entering the M50 just in case their blemish-free reputations would suddenly be taken into question for non-payment, I decided to manage the whole process on their behalf.

I already have a tag, being a long-suffering resident of the M50, but they were used to paying at the bridge, handing over their carefully counted out coins to someone in a booth.

Online registration, along with electronic gantries, video snapshots and automatic tolls were all new and worrying experiences. Never mind, I said, I'll register for you, get the tag and you can forget all about it. Online, it meant the simple task of registering the car, rather than the owner. To do this, you input the registration number. Imagine my surprise when the screen automatically brought up the make, colour, year and model of the car.

This must be what's it's like to be a cop, I thought. Then I put in my own. Yep, lo and behold, there it was. I could make one up and see what kind of car it was. What fun this could be! Or not.

expensive

Since then of course, the thing has been an unmitigated, and extraordinarily expensive, mess. You'd imagine even the NRA could have planned things a bit better.

First of all, if the equipment is capable of reading number plates in the first place, why have tags at all? I've seen other commentators ask this, with no satisfactory answer. Secondly, it simply cannot be that difficult to find sensors which collate accurate information. Other countries manage it with ease, and yet thousands of our motorists are finding themselves charged for crossing the Liffey Valley when they were in Bundoran or Tullamore or Gorey at the time. Try proving a negative.

Then 40 staff left the complaint desk because, er, they were getting too many complaints. Now the even more irate callers are hanging on for hours waiting to explain that they were charged in error.

details

Now, it seems that my little unintentional foray into hacking other people's car details has backfired spectacularly. The NRA is being investigated by the Data Protection Commission after it was discovered that anybody can find out the personal details of anyone else whose car failed to register.

When you get a naughty letter the day after you allegedly (and the word is used loosely) used the road, there's a reference number that you enter into the website to find out the when, where, who etc, before you complain, in case it was the wife, or the brother in the car, perhaps.

But the numbers aren't random, they're consecutive, which means that by fiddling about with the digits you could -- with a bit of a sad life like mine -- find out who went before and after you. Complaining, one motorist said he was "intrigued" by how much personal information came up, including names and addresses. He admitted he was "no IT genius", but many are -- imagine the havoc someone with a less than honest approach could take.

We're constantly told to mind our personal details, shred letters, not share banking information, be careful what we put in the recycling bin etc. All this against the backdrop of laptops going missing with medical information, social security details, bank account numbers, from Government departments, or from absent-minded civil servants' cars.

protection

How could the NRA not have tested their own system or not been mindful of the requirements of data protection? We're constantly being hit by internet scams from Nigerian Princes to dodgy pyramid schemes. We often wonder where these people get our details from. Well, the NRA have just made it a great deal easier.

As a show of goodwill (yes, it's a real word, NRA, look it up), they should immediately stop charging motorists until they sort their own mess out. If they cannot run the system properly, it should be given to someone who can.

- Sinead Ryan

nava · 10-10-2008 6:37pm

where does people enter the registration details to see the car details?

Steve · 10-10-2008 7:05pm

nava wrote: »

where does people enter the registration details to see the car details?

PM me your credit card details and passport number and I'll tell you...;)

*may be a scam

Our man in Havana · 10-10-2008 7:07pm

[African scammer]I just need your bank account details and sort code.[/African scammer]

nava · 10-10-2008 8:45pm

SteveC wrote: »

PM me your credit card details and passport number and I'll tell you...;)

*may be a scam

Bond-007 wrote: »

[African scammer]I just need your bank account details and sort code.[/African scammer]

I'll send you a cheque for €1000 to pay the €3 fine just send me the extra money western Union to Nigeria.

Berty · 10-10-2008 9:40pm

Big deal about finding car reg details.

Try http://www.cartell.ie

These are the results for my car. Freely available so no problem for me to show you

Registration 06LH2639
Make AUDI
Model A4
Description 115BHP 4DR 5SP 1.9TDI 5SPEED TDI 1.9
Fuel Type DIESEL

Shame I thought I had more BHP than that. Damn

Steve · 10-10-2008 10:30pm

quirke_folder wrote: »

Big deal about finding car reg details.

Try http://www.cartell.ie

These are the results for my car. Freely available so no problem for me to show you.....

.

Hardly the same as giving your name and address and journey details though.. there's nothing personally identifiable given by cartell.
What the NRA did was beyond belief and theoretically gave potential car thieves the address of their next job.

pa990 · 12-10-2008 2:46am

I've been thru it twice, no tag, never registered, never phoned, the car is in my name.. and i never heard/recieved anything. My reg plate is a standard road legal type. ?!?!?

how long does it take for the letter to arrive out ? it has been over a week

Our man in Havana · 12-10-2008 12:15pm

Some poor schmuck has received them instead of you.

The M50 Barrier Free Tolling Thread

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