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SIRO - ESB/Vodafone Fibre To The Home

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Comments

  • #1552
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    ~Take a look at this mess and lots of cities manage to bend the **** out of those fibers and not opt for expensive sub terrain ducting. ****s been around for years


  • #1553
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    ESB's latest news from the Government states that the light at the end of the fiber has been turned off due to some wind , and rain , and bad language being used on Boards referencing the ESB's rollout.

    I dont believe for a second that its been hampered on the scale suggested by the competitor's Engineers statements .


  • #1554
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    Small mention of the fibre partnership in ESB's annual accounts published today, nothing new just mentioned they are rolling out a fibre networks with VF to 50 towns

    EDIT: also got to find out the partnership is called Evolve, was set up as a subsidiary of ESB then Vodafone acquired 50% on approval of the venture


  • #1555
    Nollog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,509 ✭✭✭Nollog


    esb have been playing in holes around the corner(Victoria Road) from "the great building" in cork city the past few weeks.

    I saw them putting yellow cable under the road and stuff like that

    It's more likely something else, but at least it's not a "internet called off due to wind" post :pac:


  • #1556
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    /\/ollog wrote: »
    esb have been playing in holes around the corner form "the great building" in cork city the past few weeks.

    I saw them putting yellow cable under the road and stuff like that

    It's more likely something else, but at least it's not a "internet called it off due to wind" post :pac:

    Rotflmaocopter !


  • #1557
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    kaizersoze wrote: »
    While that may be true, it definitely looks like something fundamental has gone pear shaped whether technically or financially.


    They began to roll out just over 2 months ago , Jesus we are a demanding Bunch aren't we ? tee hee . I did see the lines being strung up on poles in Clonmel one of the 50 towns listed. In that we cannot visibly see the rollout happening in any great capacity i can understand the suspicions .


  • #1558
    Nollog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,509 ✭✭✭Nollog


    ukoda wrote: »
    Small mention of the fibre partnership in ESB's annual accounts published today, nothing new just mentioned they are rolling out a fibre networks with VF to 50 towns

    EDIT: also got to find out the partnership is called Evolve, was set up as a subsidiary of ESB then Vodafone acquired 50% on approval of the venture

    Page 15 - "Fibre / Telecoms - Joint venture established with Vodafone and commencing commercial operations"
    Page 44 says it again, and saying they're looking at NBP stuff.

    I stopped manually looking here, and just serached for evolve

    Page 99 - "Fair value (non-cash) gain on loss of control of subsidiary
    ESB plans to deliver high capacity Fibre to the Building (FTTB) network to homes and businesses in selected urban locations across the Republic of Ireland
    through an innovative joint venture agreement with Vodafone Ireland Limited. The joint venture will begin rolling out the fibre network across Ireland through
    a special purpose vehicle, Evolve Structuring Services Limited (Evolve). Prior to the joint venture agreement, Evolve was a 100% subsidiary of ESB. At the
    date of the joint venture agreement, Vodafone acquired a 50% interest in Evolve and a loss of control event occurred for ESB. Accordingly, the Group has
    recorded its remaining 50% equity investment at fair value which gave rise to a non-cash gain of €93.7 million (refer to note 12 for further details)."

    Page 108 - "ESB has committed to provide capital funding to Evolve amounting
    to €85.0 million over the next 5 years"

    I gave up completely here.


  • #1559
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    /\/ollog wrote: »
    Page 108 - "ESB has committed to provide capital funding to Evolve amounting
    to €85.0 million over the next 5 years"

    I wonder is that total for 5 years or per year?


  • #1560
    Nollog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,509 ✭✭✭Nollog


    bk wrote: »
    I wonder is that total for 5 years or per year?

    I'd say 85 over the 5 years total, and probably another 85 from vodafone in the same period.


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  • #1561
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    /\/ollog wrote: »
    I'd say 85 over the 5 years total, and probably another 85 from vodafone in the same period.

    Not much considering the ESB themselves say it will cost 450million to rollout to 500,000 homes.

    I'd say it is 85 * 5 = 425 million


  • #1562
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    bk wrote: »
    Not much considering the ESB themselves say it will cost 450million to rollout to 500,000 homes.

    I'd say it is 85 * 5 = 425 million

    Vodafone will be stumping up money too tho


  • #1563
    KOR101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    /\/ollog wrote: »
    Page 108 - "ESB has committed to provide capital funding to Evolve amounting
    to €85.0 million over the next 5 years".
    The way a company would work is that it has committed to the 50 towns, so it commits funding for that. Further funding would only be committed once further firm plans are made.


  • #1564
    mobil 222
    Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭mobil 222


    There are routes that eircom have used fibre on poles.
    Some of them are over 15 years old and are used to connect exchanges
    Kiltyclogher - Rossinver, Ballymote - Tubercurry

    So I cant see the ESB having problems.


  • #1565
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    This is why you have trials though. They'll have to find the most suitable material and plant that likes Ireland's climate.


  • #1566
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    mobil 222 wrote: »
    There are routes that eircom have used fibre on poles.
    Some of them are over 15 years old and are used to connect exchanges
    Kiltyclogher - Rossinver, Ballymote - Tubercurry

    So I cant see the ESB having problems.

    The difference is for backhaul fibre both Eircom and the ESB are probably using much heavier, more shielded and thus expensive cables.

    They might have went with a cheaper quality of cable for the last mile FTTH installs and found from the trial that it was insufficient for Irish conditions.

    Now that is purely speculation on my part based on what people are saying on this thread, I've zero knowledge of the ESB FTTH operation.

    If the above was true, it doesn't necessarily mean the rollout is cancelled. Just delayed while they find a new supplier or get higher grade cable from their existing supplier and trial these new cables.

    Of course if they found the cost of rolling it out was much higher then previously predicted, then they might opt not to proceed. I hope that isn't the case.


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  • #1567
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    Guys have a look at my pics over on this page http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057262696&page=26

    I do not believe now they are ESB runs more like Eircom suspended runs ? I put them in eircom DF section as i think the poles look more eircom owned >?


  • #1568
    ItHurtsWhenIP
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,072 ✭✭✭ItHurtsWhenIP


    dbit wrote: »
    Guys have a look at my pics over on this page http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057262696&page=26

    I do not believe now they are ESB runs more like Eircom suspended runs ? I put them in eircom DF section as i think the poles look more eircom owned >?

    I would concur that they are not ESB as there is clearly an ESB power line crossing almost perpendicular in one of the pics.


  • #1569
    mass_debater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,072 ✭✭✭mass_debater


    Eircom poles have foot pegs, ESB don't


  • #1570
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    MMFITWGDV wrote: »
    I would concur that they are not ESB as there is clearly an ESB power line crossing almost perpendicular in one of the pics.

    They're not power lines, you can see an eircom overhead drop to a house coming off one of them.


  • #1571
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    Well in an attempt to quieten the suspicions of dodgy fiber provisioning see here KN at this project with ESB since 2010 some minor pics and a little report on the safety record which is nice.
    http://knnetworkservices.com/projects/telecoms/fixed/maintenance-and-extension-of-aerial-fibre-optic-network/


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  • #1572
    kaizersoze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭kaizersoze


    dbit wrote: »
    Well in an attempt to quieten the suspicions of dodgy fiber provisioning see here KN at this project with ESB since 2010 some minor pics and a little report on the safety record which is nice.
    http://knnetworkservices.com/projects/telecoms/fixed/maintenance-and-extension-of-aerial-fibre-optic-network/

    That's their trunk network. Different ball game.


  • #1573
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    kaizersoze wrote: »
    That's their trunk network. Different ball game.

    Ok i do understand the grade of cable and safety requirements are different , I am only pointing out they have been accosted to roll out high grade national fiber networks/ infrastructure and typically do not succumb to using fishing line and milk cartons as per the suggestion here that the correct grades of cable have not been used in ESB trials . Of the 300 homes testing this in Cavan we have not yet even had one report from that user base indicating outages or roll out delays and problems.


  • #1574
    Nollog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,509 ✭✭✭Nollog


    /\/ollog wrote: »
    esb have been playing in holes around the corner(Victoria Road) from "the great building" in cork city the past few weeks.

    I saw them putting yellow cable under the road and stuff like that

    It's more likely something else, but at least it's not a "internet called off due to wind" post :pac:

    I took these, but never thought to upload them.
    http://imgur.com/2RCFtu7,AsEYwbn,hWMcvaA
    bonus picture of a tank engine.

    These guys came out of an ESB van, and about a week after adding/new cement on an ESB ground-hole.

    After seeing what eircom's fibre looks like, maybe it was ESB fibre.


  • #1575
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    /\/ollog wrote: »
    I took these, but never thought to upload them.
    http://imgur.com/2RCFtu7,AsEYwbn,hWMcvaA
    bonus picture of a tank engine.

    These guys came out of an ESB van, and about a week after adding/new cement on an ESB ground-hole.

    After seeing what eircom's fibre looks like, maybe it was ESB fibre.

    Yup deff a fiber run could you tell if it was ESB owned manholes ? Lovin the train !. Just round the corner from the idle hour and the sextant ?


  • #1576
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Could be any number of fibre networks around that area, if that's where I think it is : Albert Road / Near Cork City Centre Docks ?

    Fibre networks in the ground in Cork City:

    Eircom, UPC, ESB (Existing), Cork City Council MAN, BT Ireland, ESB Telecoms (not necessarily to do with FTTH - they've a long-standing fibre network that is used by other carriers for backhaul) and there may well be others too.

    Without seeing the branding, nobody really knows as they all look rather similar. Fibre's fibre.


  • #1577
    yuloni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭yuloni


    This post has been deleted.


  • #1578
    Nollog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,509 ✭✭✭Nollog


    dbit wrote: »
    Yup deff a fiber run could you tell if it was ESB owned manholes ? Lovin the train !. Just round the corner from the idle hour and the sextant ?

    yeah, sounds right.
    The sextant is the pub with the christmas tree hanging out a window, right?

    I'll be walking home in a few hours, i'll check.
    The men were ESB folk, their van, and a man-hole they were working on a few days before that were too.

    This was in late February or early-March, to be clear.


  • #1579
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Could be any number of fibre networks around that area, if that's where I think it is : Albert Road / Near Cork City Centre Docks ?

    Fibre networks in the ground in Cork City:

    Eircom, UPC, ESB (Existing), Cork City Council MAN, BT Ireland, ESB Telecoms (not necessarily to do with FTTH - they've a long-standing fibre network that is used by other carriers for backhaul) and there may well be others too.

    Without seeing the branding, nobody really knows as they all look rather similar. Fibre's fibre.

    Yes the docks and river would be to the rear of the photographer in the shot.


  • #1580
    ItHurtsWhenIP
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,072 ✭✭✭ItHurtsWhenIP


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    They're not power lines, you can see an eircom overhead drop to a house coming off one of them.

    Dude - I said that they didn't appear to be power lines ... Because there is an ESB line crossing perpendicular to these lines in the piccy IMG_20150406_180510.jpg - you can see a transformer on the pole to the left. :D


  • #1581
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    MMFITWGDV wrote: »
    Dude - I said that they didn't appear to be power lines ... Because there is an ESB line crossing perpendicular to these lines in the piccy IMG_20150406_180510.jpg - you can see a transformer on the pole to the left. :D

    That wouldn't rule out two sets of ESB lines tho. 20kV and three phase 230V/400V 4 wire stacks are commonly seen near by.

    The dead giveaway is that it's new and ESB no longer use those 4-wire stack distribution systems. They probably stopped using them in the 1960s/70s in favour of quadruplex (big heavy plat of 4 wires).

    It's very neatly wired though which is unusual for telecommunications overhead lines ... They must be using the same kind of tensioning techniques that power lines have always used to prevent the fibre from being damaged by movement.


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  • #1582
    Danny Boy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭Danny Boy


    http://www.northernsound.ie/news/vodafone-and-esb-to-hold-briefing-in-cavan-on-plans-to-reverse-the-digital-divide-between-capital-and-regional-towns/

    News from cavan


  • #1583
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    The other thing to bear in mind is that various people will be talking down this project.

    I don't mean at official level necessarily but you'll always get the classic taxi driver style urban legends developing. You'll get people working for competitors deliberately taking it down but also just negative people who think it's too good to be true.


  • #1584
    Nollog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,509 ✭✭✭Nollog


    The holes they were putting the wires into in the pictures were NDP-marked. Not specifically ESB or Eircom or anyone's.


  • #1585
    kaizersoze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭kaizersoze


    /\/ollog wrote: »
    The holes they were putting the wires into in the pictures were NDP-marked. Not specifically ESB or Eircom or anyone's.

    That's the MAN. State owned.


  • #1586
    yuloni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭yuloni


    This post has been deleted.


  • #1587
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    yuloni wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Yes, Eircom are doing a fantastic job of promoting their services recently, which is very refreshing compared to the secretive Eircom of the past and I believe they can gain greatly from this.

    The ESB could certainly learn from this. They are much more like the old secretive Eircom. The ESB has been doing a fantastic job on a number of projects, upgrading much of their electricity distribution network, rolling out electric car charging points all over the country, large fiber backhaul network, etc. But there is little promotion or PR about these activities, most people know nothing about them or with the ESB do.

    The only time we hear about the ESB in the news is when people are protesting overhead wires and rising prices.

    The ESB could certainly do with improving their PR and being more transparent too.

    I agree that Eircom are very concerned about what the ESB are doing and it has spurred them on to do FTTH themselves much earlier then I'd say they were planning. Isn't competition great :D


  • #1588
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    bk wrote: »
    Yes, Eircom are doing a fantastic job of promoting their services recently, which is very refreshing compared to the secretive Eircom of the past and I believe they can gain greatly from this.

    The ESB could certainly learn from this. They are much more like the old secretive Eircom. The ESB has been doing a fantastic job on a number of projects, upgrading much of their electricity distribution network, rolling out electric car charging points all over the country, large fiber backhaul network, etc. But there is little promotion or PR about these activities, most people know nothing about them or with the ESB do.

    The only time we hear about the ESB in the news is when people are protesting overhead wires and rising prices.

    The ESB could certainly do with improving their PR and being more transparent too.

    I agree that Eircom are very concerned about what the ESB are doing and it has spurred them on to do FTTH themselves much earlier then I'd say they were planning. Isn't competition great :D


    I don't know why its in my head that vodafone will front the PR and media coverage and store front sales points ? they have the infrastructure setup already to do this . They still have been as secretive it would seem.


  • #1589
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    dbit wrote: »
    I don't know why its in my head that vodafone will front the PR and media coverage and store front sales points ? they have the infrastructure setup already to do this . They still have been as secretive it would seem.

    Sure, I expect it will be Vodafone will do this as they have so much experience in this.

    But it is actually Eircom Wholesale, not retail, who are doing these great videos and being transparent about rollouts. It is the ESB who needs to do this for their infrastructure and not just rely on crappy consumer marketing from Vodafone.


  • #1590
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    YE true BK, they have had a bit of a fail, considering it relates to groundbreaking leaps in the sector , you would imagine they would have alot more muster behind it driving it on the lips of everyone in the country . The lack of the publicity is what is driving the suspicions and there is no way to write off a good media campaign when we are talking about what stands to be the fastest provider in Ireland bar eircom if they ever get test numbers into the hundreds as ESB /Voda have done.


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  • #1591
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    yuloni wrote: »
    I think ESB/VF need to release a few "eircom-esque" videos to calm the masses :)

    It seems eircom are just better at the marketing end of things... fancy videos, up to date public maps, localised press releases, product roadmaps - which is probably very intentional... look how well we're progressing politicians everyone, and all that. Despite things seeming quite, I've no doubt eircom are glancing ever-nervously over at the ESB/VF venture

    They've had a lot of experience of trying to make low grade ADSL and dial up seem high tech without causing a revolution :)
    ESB never had such issues! Their electrical services are super reliable ;)

    To be fair though, eircom have one of the best communications units in the business. The level of information they give and the way they communicate it is actually very impressive.
    I think in recent years eircom has figured out that being as open as they can about plans is actually very beneficial to their business.

    They've improved a lot in recent years, since the VDSL rollout in particular!


  • #1592
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    I dont mean two phase you , (Lols ahem ahem ) I would agree that ESB are the dogs go-nads when it comes to running cables !!!!!


  • #1593
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    dbit wrote: »
    I dont mean two phase you , (Lols ahem ahem ) I would agree that ESB are the dogs go-nads when it comes to running cables !!!!!

    That's the thing. This is a wiring and civil engineering challenge, not really an IT issue. It's exactly what ESB do just without the potentially lethal voltages and with very few of the technical challenges!

    Should be very easy from their point of view!

    The technology will just be plugging together off the shelf equipment: that's all any telco does.
    The clever stuff is done by vendors like Ericsson, Alcatel, Huawei, Nokia, Cisco various optical cable manufacturing companies etc etc


  • #1594
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    ITs only that, not one picture by any of us exists of the infrastructure and layout , I envisage a load of boarders with sore necks from looking up at high level pylons with high res cameras lols.


  • #1595
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    Travelling back from tayto park over the weekend, i did keep a constant eye on the sky and did spot alot of HV lines on very large pylons along M50 and M8 you can see the top line on the pylons have something wrapped around one of the lines, this then branches out to south, west and east directions , couldn't take any pics as they were too high and I was travelling too fast.


  • #1596
    hallo dare
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭hallo dare


    Could be wrong, but I think that's part of the ESB internal Fibre network.


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  • #1597
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    hallo dare wrote: »
    Could be wrong, but I think that's part of the ESB internal Fibre network.

    Would tend to agree the core didn't look overly large , it only made an impression against back-light of sky where the cable wrapped over you could make out something was wrapped but didn't look very thick.


  • #1598
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,109 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    ESB have had fibre running along the pylon networks for years - it's mostly leased out to commercial providers for backhaul use.


  • #1599
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    dbit wrote: »
    Travelling back from tayto park over the weekend, i did keep a constant eye on the sky and did spot alot of HV lines on very large pylons along M50 and M8 you can see the top line on the pylons have something wrapped around one of the lines, this then branches out to south, west and east directions , couldn't take any pics as they were too high and I was travelling too fast.

    tis fibre - its nice and safe up there, no digging etc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-TPB5h3sm0


  • #1600
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,169 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    dbit wrote: »
    Travelling back from tayto park over the weekend, i did keep a constant eye on the sky and did spot alot of HV lines on very large pylons along M50 and M8 you can see the top line on the pylons have something wrapped around one of the lines, this then branches out to south, west and east directions , couldn't take any pics as they were too high and I was travelling too fast.
    hallo dare wrote: »
    Could be wrong, but I think that's part of the ESB internal Fibre network.

    Yep, thats all there a while, they've a ring run around the country on the HV pylons.


  • #1601
    A.Partridge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 680 ✭✭✭A.Partridge


    https://www.esb.ie/main/press/pressreleaseWS.jsp?id=5214

    :)


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