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It is announced that Ireland WILL hold referendum on EU fiscal compact treaty

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    how significant was the timing of the Chinese visit with this announcement? Or is that just too much of a stretch? (us being the only European country with a say in this vs us being the only European country the Chinese vice president visited)
    We don't have a say at a European level - we have no veto; the other countries can go ahead without us.


  • Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭BASHIR


    My understanding of it is, that it is a set of rules in place to not allow the signing parties to not obtain the level of debt we and other countries have got ourselves into.

    By signing and ratifying these rules we say that we keep our deficit in a certain percentage of our gdp.

    If we dont a set of proposals is put forward by the European commision to help rectify the deficit

    Is this the basics of it, or can I be enlighten by others here


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    The important thing in this referendum is that we get the septic tank charge repealed. We also need a new hospital in Muff, and a bypass of Kiltemagh. Without them, no chance.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,382 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    BASHIR wrote: »
    My understanding of it is, that it is a set of rules in place to not allow the signing parties to not obtain the level of debt we and other countries have got ourselves into.
    Not quite.

    It's a set of rules which are intended to stop government, over a period of years, from running up vast debts which they can never repay.

    This deal is aimed squarely at Greece whose government lied left, right and center over a period of many years to steal billions from pension funds, bank savers and ordinary Joe Soap's, whose banks made the mistake of trusting the Greek Government.

    This deal is intended to stop that grand international theft from happening again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,069 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I think the E.U. has us down as a "guinea-pig" nation. They are experimenting with us.
    "Sure if those fcukers vote No we will make them vote again and hold threats over them to make sure they do."


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    I voted No the first time, no the second and will do the same again.

    Where are all those fcuking jobs that were promised to us from the Yes brigade? :p

    What part of NO don't these Eurocrats not understand


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    just back the party that has your man who fixed the road in it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,126 ✭✭✭Archeron


    !!
    hmmm wrote: »
    The important thing in this referendum is that we get the septic tank charge repealed. We also need a new hospital in Muff, and a bypass of Kiltemagh. Without them, no chance.

    Yes, we demand a Muffpital!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    I voted No the first time, no the second and will do the same again.

    Where are all those fcuking jobs that were promised to us from the Yes brigade? :p

    What part of NO don't these Eurocrats not understand
    Is there anything in particular you don't like about this treaty, or do you have a general policy of voting no on all EU treaties?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,219 ✭✭✭Nate--IRL--


    I think the E.U. has us down as a "guinea-pig" nation. They are experimenting with us.
    "Sure if those fcukers vote No we will make them vote again and hold threats over them to make sure they do."

    They don't need us to vote yes at all. A No result will just mean the rest carry on and we return to the markets for loans.

    Nate


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    dvpower wrote: »
    Is there anything in particular you don't like about this treaty, or do you have a general policy of voting no on all EU treaties?

    As what is common in any dictatorship, Voting will not make a difference.

    Ireland will more than likely have the EU gun to its head for a second vote should this next one not satisfy these fascist leaders. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,219 ✭✭✭Nate--IRL--


    As what is common in any dictatorship, Voting will not make a difference.

    Ireland will more than likely have the EU gun to its head for a second vote should this next one not satisfy these fascist leaders. :rolleyes:

    Why do you think the EU would need us to vote for a second time? They don't, we have no Veto this time.

    Nate


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    amacachi wrote: »
    So what exactly is the downside to voting yes other than preventing this in the future?
    Another poster made a good point earlier, even if this treaty had been in place in 1999 it still wouldn't have prevented the bubble, collapse, and ensuing deficit requiring loans/bailouts. And unfortunately it doesn't appear it would have any effect on future bubbles. Nor would it have prevented the disastrous banking guarantee.

    The main effect as far as I can see is that while the rest of the EU involved would enter this into their constitutions and why not, we wouldn't. Again as far as I know, this will mean we don't get any further loans from the EU, and while it may seem harsh, I think that might just be a good thing.

    The balance sheet isn't going to be rectified as long as the cash keeps flowing, its all a gamble on the economy picking up. And no Enda, interning a load of people won't restart anyone's economy. Sorry I mean putting people into internships.

    This can drag on and on ad infinitum, for decades, with each successive year putting us deeper into debt. And there's a damn good chance it will.

    So lets just get it done, bite the bullet and balance the books. I'm with Morgan Kelly on this one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭TheRealPONeil


    Why do you think the EU would need us to vote for a second time? They don't, we have no Veto this time.

    Nate

    "No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be? Suppose you had decided to follow Snowball, with his moonshine of windmills–Snowball, who, as we now know, was no better than a criminal?"


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    I think the E.U. has us down as a "guinea-pig" nation. They are experimenting with us.
    "Sure if those fcukers vote No we will make them vote again and hold threats over them to make sure they do."

    We could just start dropping gentle little hints about interest rates etc; then again that would be useless unless a huge discount was given, which even if it was would never make a noticeable dent in the capital figure.

    So, No is the way I will be voting, as I do not wish to relinquish any further control to Europe at this time, nor do I personally agree with the conditions of the EU IMF loan and the government's methods of collection of the funds needed to repay the loan.

    A national discussion may just follow if we reject this vote, and yes, the topics IMO will be the never ending deceptive stealth taxes such as the household charge, septic tanks etc, in leiu of a genuine across the board SW and OAP-inclusive raise in income tax.

    I would also like to know whether Messrs. Kenny and the Invisible Man think that the people in Greece and Italy should also be given the chance to vote on their future austerity plans.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭tonycascarino


    Nein for me


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    robindch wrote: »
    Not quite.

    It's a set of rules which are intended to stop government, over a period of years, from running up vast debts which they can never repay.

    This deal is aimed squarely at Greece whose government lied left, right and center over a period of many years to steal billions from pension funds, bank savers and ordinary Joe Soap's, whose banks made the mistake of trusting the Greek Government.

    This deal is intended to stop that grand international theft from happening again.

    So its actually a guarantee scheme for banks and bondholers then.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 606 ✭✭✭Jammy Donut


    Right, I'm 18.. I'm young and frankly couldn't give a **** about the past, what's done is done.

    What concerns me is people saying yes or no without having a clue what they're voting for, or saying they'll do the opposite to certain parties.

    What we need is cold hard facts, laid out in simple terms so people will understand the consequencess of their vote .

    So I'm asking, is there any knowledgeable person that'll explain to me and any other confused people,
    What implications will a Yes and No vote have on the every day working man?


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,013 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    It's better to die upon your feet than to live upon your knees


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    you vil do vot you are told


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,707 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    It's better to die upon your feet than to live upon your knees

    Purchase in haste, repent at leisure.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    I wonder what horrific predications Coir will have this time :eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    I wonder what horrific predications Coir will have this time :eek:

    I'd imagine they're already hard at work implementing some of these


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Tigger wrote: »
    Purchase in haste, repent at leisure.
    dont push me man


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Standman


    "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Well even if we vote No, they will simply ask us to vote again and then all the sheep will vote Yes...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Well even if we vote No, they will simply ask us to vote again and then all the sheep will vote Yes...


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Well even if we vote No, they will simply ask us to vote again and then all the sheep will vote Yes...
    make the lie big,make it simple,keep saying it,and eventually they will believe it
    ]


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭foxyboxer


    If the carrot of a significantly reduced bailout interest rate was dangled in front of us then I wouldn't be quick in giving Europe the finger.

    Anyway, it shouldn't be our own government who need to convince people to vote yes.
    It's the EU's responsibility to present a transparant reason why this treaty should be implemented.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Well even if we vote No, they will simply ask us to vote again and then all the sheep will vote Yes...

    I didn't realise the suffrage movement had been extended to members of the species Ovis aries

    Must have missed that one.


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