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BQ or Bust!

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  • 28-05-2014 11:52pm
    #1
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭


    It's time to ditch the old log, with its self-deprecating Plodder Alert title, for a faster, sleeker, better one as a new marathon training regime begins. In 18 weeks time, I hope to be lining up in the Tiergarten at the start of the Berlin Marathon. All going well, it will be my third marathon, having done DCM 2012 and 2013.

    The aim this time is to qualify for Boston 2016 with a 3:40 which should be enough for a GFA entry (I could possibly qualify for 2015 but that would take 3:30 as I would still be in the M50 category. So just think of me as another old geezer trying to make up for lost time. :pac:

    Having run 3:46 last year, 3:40 doesn't seem like too much of a stretch but I don't take anything for granted these days, as it's easy enough to be derailed with injury, as I've discovered twice in the past year or so. I've been very careful building up the mileage after the last injury, not long after DCM, which saw me unable to run for most of the winter. I was surprised how much I missed being able to run, especially when I had to cancel a couple of planned races.

    Like last year, I'll be following a plan that menoscemo devised for a group DCM 2012 graduates for our 2013 effort. It's a flexible plan, based loosely on P&D, I think, combining one LSR and one session a week with three or four easy runs a week.

    I try to run five times a week, incorporating a parkrun if I can, and taking in one club or race series type event a month during the training. This year I'll be incorporating the race series events into the plan (or trying to at least), with the half marathon making up part of the final LSR. Might try to find another HM to race sometime in August if it can be squeezed in.

    So away we go. Any advice, encouragement and/or slagging will be appreciated.


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    #2
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Tues 27 May
    18 weeks to go...

    8k@6:13

    Legs were quite sore after the somewhat ambitious 26k (16 mile) LSR on Sunday so I was considering an extra day's rest. However I didn't want to get behind in the plan from Day 1 decided to get out and treat this like a recovery run. Not much fun, and felt pretty heavy legged, but it's done.

    WTD: 8k
    YTD: 496k


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    #3
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Weds 28 May

    8x800 session.

    Was still feeling a little tired and considered just turning this into an easy run but by the time I got out at 9pm was feeling a bit better. The plan was to do a 10x800 "Yasso" session (fitness test that can supposedly predict your marathon time) but I had a total brain fart and only did eight reps. I was pleased with myself on the "last" one, thinking that was easy enough, not realising my mistake till halfway through the cooldown. That's what happens when you don't have your glasses and can't read your watch, and it's dark anyway. Oh well. What I did went well enough (planned time per rep 3:40):

    3:39 3:40 3:32 3:32: 3:30 3:34 3:38 3:28 (Avg. 3:34)

    This felt good - felt like I was constantly having to slow down, and I'm pretty sure I could have done two more. But we'll find out next week when I'll do it again, properly this time.

    Total with warmup and cooldown: 11.9k. Takes me over 500k for the year so far (well behind last year though, when I was at 820k at this stage).

    WTD: 20k
    YTD: 508k


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    #4
    Pacing Mule
    Registered Users Posts: 5,057 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Much better sounding title that does your profess justice. Good luck with the goal.


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    #5
    Pacing Mule
    Registered Users Posts: 5,057 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Ps - now would be a great time to convert to miles ;)


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    #6
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Pacing Mule wrote: »
    Ps - now would be a great time to convert to miles ;)

    Yes, I am actually considering that in the interests of "fitting in". But then again, they don't do miles in Berlin. ;)

    Will probably stick to kms for now but will work harder at converting distance and pace for the benefit of all ye imperialists. :)


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    #7
    RedRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭RedRunner


    Good luck with the fresh log and training for Berlin D.


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    #8
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Thurs 29 May

    40 mins recovery on the treadmill 6k @ 6:40 (3.7 mi @ 10:40)

    Sat 31 May

    9.03k @ 5:40 (5.6 mi @ 9:07)

    In Donegal for the weekend so headed out on the local country roads. Lots of farming going on which made me feel vaguely guilty to not be working, although I did spend the rest of the day cutting grass and other gardening chores.

    Sun 1 June

    21.1k @ 6:00 (13.1 mi @ 9:39)

    Nice easy long run to round off the week. Tacked on a little bit to bring up to HM distance (why not?). Back feeling a bit stiff after yesterday so tried to be as relaxed and as light-footed as possible.

    WTD: 56k (35 mi)
    YTD: 538k (334 mi)


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    #9
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Tues 3 June

    6.2 mi @ 9:32 (10k@5:55)

    A nice easy trot along the seafront at Ballyhalbert on the Ards Peninsula with Mrs. M who is also signed up for the entire Race Series this year. Did this just after 9 on a warm morning. Sea breeze felt good.

    WTD: 10k (6.2m)
    YTD: 554k (344m)


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    #10
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Weds 4 June

    Progression Run

    Have taken a couple of days off this week so it was nice to be able to get out to the Phoenix Park around lunchtime for this week's session. Quite warm, and threatening rain, although it stayed dry (could have done with a bit of a shower towards the end to cool down).

    The plan was four 8-min reps, at Steady, MP, HMP and 10k pace.

    |Steady|MP|HMP|10kP|Avg
    Plan| 8:37 (5:21) | 8:21 (5:11) | 7:56 (4:56) | 7:31 (4:40) | 8:06 (5:02)
    Actual| 8:32 (5:18) | 8:08 (5:03) | 7:51 (4:53) | 7:27 (4:38) |8:00 (4:58)


    Started with a two mile warmup and as you can see I didn't find it easy to dial in the pace - was wearing watch and trying to match the virtual pacer but only taking the occasional glance. Found it quite hard in reps 3 and 4. The final rep had me coming down Military Hill but also back up towards and past the Wellington Monument so both sides of the coin here. 2 miles cool down for a total of 8 miles (12.8k).

    WTD: 23k (14.3m)
    YTD: 567k (352m)


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    #11
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Thurs 5 June

    50 mins recovery (5.1m @ 9:58)

    The Clontarf seafront was teeming with life tonight - walkers taking an after dinner passeggiata, dozens of runners, kids on bikes, sailors, cooing teenagers, louts on minibikes (OK that last one was in Fairview Park).

    Kept having to slow this one down to the correct pace (that seems to be a bit of a recurring thing lately - I'm going to assume that it's a good thing). Feeling very strong this week. I wonder if it's because I've been drinking less?

    WTD: 31k (19m)
    YTD: 575k (357m)


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    #12
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Sat 7 June

    Out to St. Anne's for the first time in a few weeks. Took it nice and easy, running with Colm, who I know from volunteering. Turns out he's Ferris B - everyone's a boardsie! We had a good chat on the way around, hadn't realised he's doing Berlin too. Mrs. M sped past on the home straight for this week's /bragging rights. Spotted Redrunner on his way home as we were coming down to the finish - he must have put in a decent time. Gentle run home afterwards. Total: 10.3k (6.4 miles)

    WTD: 41k (25 miles)
    YTD: 585k (364 miles)


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    #13
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Sun 8 June

    22.6k @ 5:56 avg (14 mi @ 9:33). Avg HR 153 (72%).

    14-mile LSR today. Ran through Drumcondra/Glasnevin to Phibsboro and took the Royal Canal to Broombridge Rd, then over to the Phoenix Park. Warm and muggy enough afternoon, with a fairly stiff breeze.

    Had a late night last night then a busy morning with kids stuff, so was not feeling the greatest doing this, and it was fairly tough going right from the start, even at the easy pace. One of those runs - glad it's over. 40 miles this week.

    WTD: 64k (40 miles)
    YTD: 608 (378 miles)


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    #14
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Mon 9 June

    Rest. Went to the pool though, and did a 22 lap (550m) "recovery swim".


    Tues 10 June

    Easy 10k @ 6:00 (6.2m @ 9:39).

    No watch today, just went out for an easy 10k from the office up to Ballymun and Santry Demense. Jogged for an hour and measured the route afterwards on Google Earth and it turned out to be... 9.99k. Followed this with 10 laps of the pool and a sauna.

    WTD: 10 k / 6 mi
    YTD: 618 k / 384 mi


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    #15
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    2014 Goal Times

    Distance|Goal|Current PB|PB Date
    5k|22:35|22:05|Apr 2013
    5m|37:26|37:50|May 2014
    10k|46:53|50:51|Dec 2012
    10m|78:22|78:53|Jul 2013
    HM|1:44:32|1:46:25|Mar 2013
    M|3:39:59|3:46:15|Oct 2013


    Pulling this from my old log as a reminder, plus to update the 5m PB. Will be aiming to hit these goals over the summer, mostly in the Race Series.


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    #16
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Weds 11 June

    Tempo session: 3 x 2 mile with 5 mins jog recovery @ 7:52 (4:53/k)

    This session from meno's plan calls for a tempo pace somewhere between 10 mile and HM pace. I reckon those paces are 7:50 (4:52) and 7:59 (4:57) respectively, so I aimed for a target pace in the middle of that range. Did the session around 9pm, not much more than an hour after dinner, so I worried a little about keeping it down, or maybe getting a stitch.

    Miles|Total|Avg|Target
    1-2| 15:39 | 7:50 (4:52) | 7:55 (4:55)
    3-4| 15:37 | 7:48 (4:51) | 7:55 (4:55)
    5-6| 16:06 | 8:03 (5:00) | 7:55 (4:55)
    Total|47:22 |7:54 (4:54) | 7:55 (4:55)


    After a 2k or so warmup, the first rep felt terrible, which is not unusual for me with this kind of session. However after the 5 min recovery I was feeling better and rep 2 felt pretty OK, although it should have felt harder into a slight headwind. By rep 3 I was trying to pace myself rather than rely on the watch so that's probably one reason why it was a bit slower (the other being it was pretty difficult by mile 6). Still, the average is pretty much bang on target so have to be happy with that - especially as there was no sign of the dreaded stitch or puke!

    The last time I did this session it was much earlier in the day and much hotter and my pace was 8:18 - but still, I'll consider it an improvement.

    Total with warmup/cooldown: 10.4 miles (16.8k).

    WTD: 27k (17 miles)
    YTD: 635k (395 miles)


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    #17
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Question if there's anyone out there with knowledge/opinions...

    I know I should be training to current MP rather than desired MP. My most recent marathon result is 3:46:15 which translates to a pace of 8:38/mi (5:20/k). Most recent competitive result is 37:50 for 5 miles which suggests current marathon goal of 3:42:20 - i.e. pace 8:29/mi (5:16/k). My desired pace for sub 3:40 marathon is 8:24/mi (5:13) but to be on the safe side and allowing for running a bit extra on the day I've been calculating PMP at 8:20 (5:11) and using that as basis.

    Am I going too fast or are these differences too small to worry about?


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    #18
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Thurs 12 June

    50 mins Recovery 4.4 mi (7k) @ 10:24 (6:27/k)

    WTD: 34k (21 mi)
    YTD: 642k (399 mi)


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    #19
    career_move
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭career_move


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Question if there's anyone out there with knowledge/opinions...

    I know I should be training to current MP rather than desired MP. My most recent marathon result is 3:46:15 which translates to a pace of 8:38/mi (5:32/k). Most recent competitive result is 37:50 for 5 miles which suggests current marathon goal of 3:42:20 - i.e. pace 8:29/mi (5:16/k). My desired pace for sub 3:40 marathon is 8:24/mi (5:13) but to be on the safe side and allowing for running a bit extra on the day I've been calculating PMP at 8:20 (5:11) and using that as basis.

    Am I going too fast or are these differences too small to worry about?
    This is more opinion than knowledge but given that your marathon was last October I think and that you have been running fairly consistently all spring a PMP of 8:20/5:11 sounds spot on. I like to have a bit of a cushion so I would probably even be doing the PMP miles between 8:10 - 8:15 pace so that on the day 8:20 pace feels like a breeze


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    #20
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    career_move wrote: »
    This is more opinion than knowledge but given that your marathon was last October I think and that you have been running fairly consistently all spring a PMP of 8:20/5:11 sounds spot on. I like to have a bit of a cushion so I would probably even be doing the PMP miles between 8:10 - 8:15 pace so that on the day 8:20 pace feels like a breeze

    Ha - I worry am I going too fast and she tells me to speed up! :)


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    #21
    pgmcpq
    Registered Users Posts: 1,852 ✭✭✭pgmcpq


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Ha - I worry am I going too fast and she tells me to speed up! :)

    As a fellow old geezer :) I'd suggest a little caution.

    15 seconds a mile doesn't sound like much but is significent jump in effort and as times drop it requires proportionately harder effort. It's also a bit tough to calculate MP off a five mile race. Still you have time so I'd suggest starting MP sessions at current pace and then gradually increasing pace until you hit PMP for the final mile(s). Then if this seems manageable increase the number of faster paced miles. This will give you a good idea of a realistic PMP. Once you do a few more races (longer if possible) you'll get a much better feel for PMP.

    This may help:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64545486


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    #22
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Sat 14 June

    4.4m (7k) easy @ 9:13 (5:44). Warm and muggy this afternoon in East Point and the Docklands. Lots of locals gathered around the canal lock at the Convention Centre enjoying a swim, wetsuits and all.

    WTD: 41k (25m)
    YTD: 649k (403m    )


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    #23
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    pgmcpq wrote: »

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64545486

    Thanks for the link pgmcpq - interesting thread. It tracks well with my limited experience - the right MP certainly feels easy for the first ⅔ of the race at least. The idea of ramping up thru the various paces I mentioned seems eminently sensible too.


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    #24
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Sun 15 June

    16.2m@9:29 (26k@5:54) long run. Avg HR 152 (71%)

    Another 16-miler under the belt. Hot day but felt good throughout. An out and back along the seafront to Howth via Sutton, to the "plateau" below Shielmartin (the false summit that catches everyone out on their first jaunt up there). Took the St. Fintan's Road route on the way back. I've never been down that descent before, and it was a little steep for comfort.

    I only wear headphones for long runs (usually listening to Marathon Talk or somesuch). When my podcasts ran out around after 16k or so I stuck on some music and immediately noticed myself speeding up - I wonder if that's one reason a lot of novices struggle to run slowly enough during LSRs?

    Anyway, great to be a full three weeks into the Berlin training. Game on! The "meno plan" is behaving itself so far. Last time out I only aimed for 90 percent of the low end of the suggested mileage but this time I'm trying to hit the mid-to-high end of the suggested range. Which is why I'm ready for the first stepback week of the plan.

    So far so good. A week ahead of schedule so will have a bit of flexibility as the races start to kick in in a few weeks.

    WTD: 67k (42 miles)
    YTD: 675k (420 miles)


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    #25
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Link to the Meno Plan: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Iqh0HwS7Tg0CIUOs8LPvyGiPaSKI1LxP0DIV8Vuazm8/edit?usp=sharing


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    #26
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Mon 16 June

    Rest. Glad of it too. Tidied the back garden.

    Tue 17 June

    Easy 5m @ 9:10 (8k @ 5:41)

    Did a few strides in the middle of this. Hot afternoon in Clontarf. Seafront full of people enjoying the glorious weather.

    WTD: 5m (8k)
    YTD: 683k (425 miles)


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    #27
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Weds 18 June

    10x400 @ 3k-5k pace (1min standing recovery)

    The way the day was set up meant I had to do this one just before noon. The temperature was in the low 20s, not the worst but not exactly comfortable either. I sought out a shaded route under tree cover in the park beside my office and measured out a rough 400m circuit during the warmup. Paced this out , and I think it was reasonably accurate. The goal was 3k-5k pace which I calculated to be somewhere in the 6:50 – 7:05 per mile range (4:15 - 4:25/k). That would translate to a 400m lap time of 1:42 - 1:46.

    Results

    1:50 1:48 1:48 1:49 1:47 1:46 1:48 1:50 1:52 1:51 (Avg 1:48.7)

    This was a good bit slower than the intended pace. I was doing this totally by feel as there was no point trying to pace it off the Garmin under tree cover. So I obviously haven’t quite got the feel for this kind of pace. In my defence however it was a slow enough course with a couple of sharp bends and a smattering of dog walkers. There’s also the possibility that it was a little long too.:p

    So all in all, happy enough. Total with WU/CD: 6.5 miles (10.4k).

    WTD: 18k (11.5m)
    YTD: 694k (431m)


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    #28
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Thurs 19 June

    5 miles recovery. Bloody hot out there.

    WTD: 26k (17m)
    YTD: 702k (436m)


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    #29
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Sat 21 June

    Parkrun 5k @ 4:53 (3.1m @ 7:52)

    A hot sunny morning for the midsummer park run. The plan was to do it at easy pace. However as Ferris B wasn't around to slow me down :) (he was volunteering this week, saving himself for Dunshaughlin) it ended up more of a progression run, starting at steady pace and ramping up through MP, HMP and ending something closer to 10k pace. All in all a nice little workout.

    Sun 22 June

    16.3k @ 5:32 avg (10.1m @ 8:54)

    The plan said 10 miles with 6 at MP. After yesterday's shenanigans I thought I might reduce this to 4-5 at MP. However it was a hot late morning in the Phoenix Park and I figured I'd do more and try to get used to MP in warm conditions, given that Berlin is likely to be warmer than the DCMs I've done previously. Turned out the MP was no bother at all really - felt really good. In fact the hardest element of this run was trying to figure out how to route it so that the last 3k would coincide with Mrs. M's easy 10k. Amazingly as I approached the Furry Glen, exactly 3k from the end, there she was cruising up the hill.

    WTD: 48k (30 miles)
    YTD: 723k (449 miles)


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    #30
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    This is what's down for this week:

    Monday|Tuesday|Wednesday| Thursday| Friday| Saturday| Sunday| Total Mileage
    Easy/rest| Easy/rest| 90 minute progression run|recovery |Easy/rest| Easy/rest|Long run-18 miles easy| 44-50 miles

    As I'm doing the Irish Runner 5 Mile on Sat will have to adapt this. I'm thinking just easy runs all week with some strides, race Saturday, then maybe 10 miles or so recovery on Sun. Anyone have any thoughts? I'm not going to try to win the Irish Runner, but might go for the PB - the course isn't particularly PB-friendly but at my level it would probably be on.


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    #31
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    Murph_D wrote: »
    This is what's down for this week:

    Monday|Tuesday|Wednesday| Thursday| Friday| Saturday| Sunday| Total Mileage
    Easy/rest| Easy/rest| 90 minute progression run|recovery |Easy/rest| Easy/rest|Long run-18 miles easy| 44-50 miles

    As I'm doing the Irish Runner 5 Mile on Sat will have to adapt this. I'm thinking just easy runs all week with some strides, race Saturday, then maybe 10 miles or so recovery on Sun. Anyone have any thoughts? I'm not going to try to win the Irish Runner, but might go for the PB - the course isn't particularly PB-friendly but at my level it would probably be on.

    TBH I wouldn't try to do any kind of long run the day after a race. 45-50 minutes recovery would be my limit. Ditch the session for sure but could you do the longish run (maybe 13 miles??) earlier in the week? Ideally tomorrow but Wednesday might be fine if you keep it really easy.


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