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Lisbon Treaty - Exit Poll

12346

Comments

  • #252
    ian_m
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭ian_m


    I voted yes. But Im not convinced yes is the right answer. In a democracy everyone should have a vote, that means everyone in europe.

    Good luck to the Czechs. May democracy rule.


  • #253
    Hitman Actual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭Hitman Actual


    Wooo-Hooooo! 10pm on 2nd October, 2009! Good riddance to one of the most despicable periods I've ever seen in Irish politics.

    I don't mean that to be a post of me counting chickens on the Yes vote winning, btw; I'm just glad to see the back of that horrible referendum.


  • #254
    Bob_Harris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭Bob_Harris


    ian_m wrote: »
    I voted yes. But Im not convinced yes is the right answer. In a democracy everyone should have a vote, that means everyone in europe.

    Good luck to the Czechs. May democracy rule.

    Interesting. You could have voted no if that is what you actually feel.


  • #255
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    nd wrote: »
    Are the results of the 2008 polls still up somewhere?
    Yes, we dont remove valid content. I have been too busy to look for the previous Lisbon results though and i didnt think a quick search for "lisbon Vote" would yield anything...

    DeV.


  • #256
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    Bob_Harris wrote: »
    I want a No vote to win tomorrow primarily so I can have this as my signature for the next few months.

    Vote Yes to avoid dated cultural references.

    Polls are closed :eek:


  • #257
    Ann22
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭Ann22


    I voted yes. I know fcuk all about pollitics but In any of the debates I've listened to, the 'yes' campaigners seemed to have stronger arguments.
    However I do worry about our neutrality and what it could mean for our soldiers. It's ok saying we don't have to get involved in other wars but what if other countries say... 'why should we send our lads in when Ireland won't??'
    In saying that, what eventually made my mind up was the fact that all parties were pushing for a 'yes' vote (except for SF). They're all saying it's crucial for us for it to get through and that it'd be disastrous for the country if it's a 'no' vote. Bit scary that:eek: After listening to them all on the news last night I'd be afraid to vote 'no'.


  • #258
    ian_m
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭ian_m


    Bob_Harris wrote: »
    Interesting. You could have voted no if that is what you actually feel.

    I could have. But one choice had to be made out of two bad options. Either that or spoil a vote. FF will feel the force in the next GE, regardless of the outcome of Nice.

    Give it two weeks and nobody will be talking about this referendum.

    Again, best of luck to the Czechs.


  • #259
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    Ann22 wrote: »
    However I do worry about our neutrality and what it could mean for our soldiers. It's ok saying we don't have to get involved in other wars but what if other countries say... 'why should we send our lads in when Ireland won't??'.

    Factor in the fact that Austria, Finland and Sweden (all EU members) are also neutral so Ireland wouldn't be isolated as it were. But its not going to happen, there is a stipulation in the Treaty respecting member state military stances. The sentence in question was oft misquoted by the No side.


  • #260
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    ian_m wrote: »
    I voted yes. But Im not convinced yes is the right answer. In a democracy everyone should have a vote, that means everyone in europe.

    Good luck to the Czechs. May democracy rule.
    Representative democracy involves electing people to make decisions on our behalf.

    This isn't ancient Athens, we don't do a show of hands for every decision !


  • #261
    ian_m
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭ian_m


    Dave! wrote: »
    Representative democracy involves electing people to make decisions on our behalf.

    This isn't ancient Athens, we don't do a show of hands for every decision !

    I'm not happy with who was elected.


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  • #262
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    Fine Gael exit poll shows 52% for Yes.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1002/breaking1.htm


  • #263
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    ian_m wrote: »
    I'm not happy with who was elected.
    You're not happy with who was elected in Germany, France, Spain, Italy, etc.?!?


  • #264
    Bob_Harris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭Bob_Harris


    Dave! wrote: »
    Representative democracy involves electing people to make decisions on our behalf.

    This isn't ancient Athens, we don't do a show of hands for every decision !

    I suppose you agree 100% with every decision our government makes then?

    Hopefully the Czechs will delay, and Conservative Britain will crush it.


  • #265
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Bob_Harris wrote: »
    I suppose you agree 100% with every decision our government makes then?.

    You missed the point. We did get a say in it through a quirk in our Constitution from a bygone era IMO. However Dave!'s post was about the ratification process abroad and as such has nothing to do with our government.


  • #266
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Bob_Harris wrote: »
    I suppose you agree 100% with every decision our government makes then?

    Hopefully the Czechs will delay, and Conservative Britain will crush it.
    No I don't agree with every decision they make, but I acknowledge that when they're elected they're given a mandate to make decisions on behalf of the electorate in the interest of the country. If they don't make the right impression during their term then they'll be f*cked out next time, that's how democracy works. I don't see what's so special about this bill that you think all of Europe should vote on it. Should we have a plebiscite for the next finance bill also?! Surely that affects us alot more directly than the Lisbon treaty.


  • #267
    FruitLover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭FruitLover


    Bob_Harris wrote: »
    I suppose you agree 100% with every decision our government makes then?

    So you have a problem with a democratic election of government?
    But you support a democratic referendum?
    Does not compute.
    ian_m wrote: »
    In a democracy everyone should have a vote, that means everyone in europe

    Jesus H, have we not gone over this thirty million times already? If other countries want a referendum, that's something they need to sort out with their own governments. It has nothing to do with the Treaty of Lisbon.


  • #268
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    ian_m wrote: »
    ... Give it two weeks and nobody will be talking about this referendum...

    If it's passed, which looks likely, I am sure that you will be proved right on that.

    And our minimum wage will not be cut because of it, and there won't be an abortion clinic in your local hospital, and I won't be hiding away for fear of euthanasia, and we won't be going off to fight foreign wars, and our Corporation Tax rate won't be raised, and there will be no President of Europe.

    The sky might fall in, though.


  • #269
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    If it's passed, which looks likely, I am sure that you will be proved right on that.

    And our minimum wage will not be cut because of it, and there won't be an abortion clinic in your local hospital, and I won't be hiding away for fear of euthanasia, and we won't be going off to fight foreign wars, and our Corporation Tax rate won't be raised, and there will be no President of Europe.

    The sky might fall in, though.

    Funny, only one of those things scares me, and only because I don't know what it is.


  • #270
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    If it's passed, which looks likely, I am sure that you will be proved right on that.

    And our minimum wage will not be cut because of it, and there won't be an abortion clinic in your local hospital, and I won't be hiding away for fear of euthanasia, and we won't be going off to fight foreign wars, and our Corporation Tax rate won't be raised, and there will be no President of Europe.

    The sky might fall in, though.

    Spot on. I really hope people remember this at the next referendum, the sky didn't fall in no matter how many times the No campaign said it would.


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  • #271
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    turgon wrote: »
    Factor in the fact that Austria, Finland and Sweden (all EU members) are also neutral so Ireland wouldn't be isolated as it were. But its not going to happen, there is a stipulation in the Treaty respecting member state military stances. The sentence in question was oft misquoted by the No side.
    TBH I can't see how the no side could expect us to fully protect our €200 billion worth of fish without massive investment in the navy and air crops


  • #272
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    60% now :eek:


  • #273
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    TBH I can't see how the no side could expect us to fully protect our €200 billion worth of fish without massive investment in the navy and air crops

    Its easy to protect things that only exist in our mind. Even Winston Smith broke out for a while!


  • #274
    ynotdu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    Ann22 wrote: »
    I voted yes. I know fcuk all about pollitics but In any of the debates I've listened to, the 'yes' campaigners seemed to have stronger arguments.
    However I do worry about our neutrality and what it could mean for our soldiers. It's ok saying we don't have to get involved in other wars but what if other countries say... 'why should we send our lads in when Ireland won't??'
    In saying that, what eventually made my mind up was the fact that all parties were pushing for a 'yes' vote (except for SF). They're all saying it's crucial for us for it to get through and that it'd be disastrous for the country if it's a 'no' vote. Bit scary that:eek: After listening to them all on the news last night I'd be afraid to vote 'no'.

    Hi Ann22,I think a lot of people voted YES today through fear(as i believe did many NO voters)It is a fact that many people i have spoken to have voted whichever way they did due to listening to people they trust, as the treaty would strain the intellect of Einstein.

    I have to disagree though that if we say yes we should also not do it in a half-hearted way.We should have the courage of our convictions and STOP being neutral in the military sense.(We did in WW2,although the reasons were complex for Devalera,surely Hitler was the bigger enemy!)

    To some extent we like to have the benifits of the EU without wanting to pay the entrance fee.

    We as a country cannot stomach abortion,but are in some cases glad it is available close by.
    to me that and neutrality is a form of cowardice.


  • #275
    Bob_Harris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭Bob_Harris


    Dave! wrote: »
    If they don't make the right impression during their term then they'll be f*cked out next time, that's how democracy works

    But once Lisbon is passed it can't be undone. So the concept of f*ucking out the current people in power who made the decision at the next elections is ineffective, because it's to late.

    Lisbon changes how the EU works substantually and the citizens, the people who will be effected in one way or another for better or worse, did not get a say.


  • #276
    bleg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    For anybody who's interested the 1st exit poll should go live when tomorow's irish times is uploaded at about 1 am.


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  • #277
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Bob_Harris wrote: »
    But once Lisbon is passed it can't be undone. So the concept of f*ucking out the current people in power who made the decision at the next elections is ineffective, because it's to late.

    Lisbon changes how the EU works substantually and the citizens, the people who will be effected in one way or another for better or worse, did not get a say.

    Ireland or any country can leave at any time....


  • #278
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,988 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Fine Gael exit poll shows 60% Yes:

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1002/eulisbon.html

    So wow, both meat space and virtual exit polls showing 60% yes.

    If it turns out this way, this would be a major boost for boards.ie reputation. It means boards.ie exit polls, at least for referendums, are very accurate and you can trust them.


  • #279
    dloob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭dloob


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    Ireland or any country can leave at any time....

    But only if Lisbon is passed, it formally adds the ability to leave :D


  • #280
    sceptre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    dloob wrote: »
    But only if Lisbon is passed, it formally adds the ability to leave :D
    Greenland left in 85. It makes the procedure formal, defined and official but no-one's been making us or anyone else stay in the room.


  • #281
    Bob_Harris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭Bob_Harris


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    Ireland or any country can leave at any time....

    An extreme measure no country will do. The fact remains Lisbon cannot be undone and the people will have to live with the consequences of their "elected representatives" decision.


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  • #282
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Bob_Harris wrote: »
    An extreme measure no country will do.

    yes an extreme measure which is an ultimate form of a veto, it never came to it but if any country is ever unhappy about the direction being taken they can derail the whole train, by using this powerful card or even threat of it

    Bob_Harris wrote: »
    The fact remains Lisbon cannot be undone and the people will have to live with the consequences of their "elected representatives" decision.

    you conceding defeat already?


  • #283
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    bk wrote: »
    Fine Gael exit poll shows 60% Yes:

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1002/eulisbon.html

    So wow, both meat space and virtual exit polls showing 60% yes.

    If it turns out this way, this would be a major boost for boards.ie reputation. It means boards.ie exit polls, at least for referendums, are very accurate and you can trust them.
    Wish I could find our poll for the last one... we were accurate to 0.2% as memory serves...

    DeV.


  • #284
    Hitman Actual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭Hitman Actual


    DeVore wrote: »
    Wish I could find our poll for the last one... we were accurate to 0.2% as memory serves...

    DeV.
    The thread was stickied up to about 3-4 months ago: Do you guys dump unstickied (and then closed) threads somewhere off the beaten track?


  • #285
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Bob_Harris wrote: »
    But once Lisbon is passed it can't be undone. So the concept of f*ucking out the current people in power who made the decision at the next elections is ineffective, because it's to late.

    Lisbon changes how the EU works substantually and the citizens, the people who will be effected in one way or another for better or worse, did not get a say.

    That's always the way mate, look at John Gormley allowing national monuments to be excavated to facilitate the M3. Can't be undone. Brian Lenihan introduced the 'income levy' and made life more difficult for alot of people. Sure that can be removed once they're gone, but it could be 5 years of struggle that people can't get back. The Minister for Justice can grant someone refugee status, but it can't be taken away except in specific circumstances. I'm sure there's hundreds of examples but my brain is fried at the moment.

    As I said before, the Finance Bill 2009 affects us far more considerably and far more directly, so why not have a referendum on that?


  • #286
    Bob_Harris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭Bob_Harris


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    yes an extreme measure which is an ultimate form of a veto, it never came to it but if any country is ever unhappy about the direction being taken they can derail the whole train, by using this powerful card or even threat of it

    you conceding defeat already?

    I think this battle is lost, but not the war.

    Britain will show how it's done should the Czechs buy them some time.


  • #287
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Actually its here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055310420

    We were accurate to 0.8% with a prediction of 54.2% and the actual result was 53.4% for No.

    That was on a sample set of 1460 here we have a sample set of 600 ish, so the variance might be higher but then this is an "exit" poll where as that was a "how do you intend to vote" poll.

    I would be happy to call it for the Yes voters all the same but I think it will be closer then 60%... I'm sticking with 53% Yes.

    DeV.


  • #288
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,087 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    bk wrote: »
    It means boards.ie exit polls, at least for referendums, are very accurate and you can trust them.

    Pity there will never be another one in the EUSSR comrade. :D


  • #289
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Congrats to the Yes side. Looks like they won.


  • #290
    eureka1978
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭eureka1978


    Fianna Fail said the FG informal polls revealed about 53 per cent yes, and that contradicts what the FG'ers were saying that it was 60%....so it's just another lie. Never throw in the towel until it's over and the votes counted. This type of dubious "informal" polling just gives the government an excuse to cheat and do ballot box stuffing to match and exceed this lying polling at selected locations like Ballsbridge where all the Dublin votes are to be transported to overnight for counting in the am. All governments lie, cheat, steal and kill innocent people and no government wants to lose a referendum. This is an information war www.infowars.com


  • #291
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,329 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    eureka1978 wrote: »
    Fianna Fail said the FG informal polls revealed about 53 per cent yes, and that contradicts what the FG'ers were saying that it was 60%....so it's just another lie. Never throw in the towel until it's over and the votes counted. This type of dubious "informal" polling just gives the government an excuse to cheat and do ballot box stuffing to match and exceed this lying polling at selected locations like Ballsbridge where all the Dublin votes are to be transported to overnight for counting in the am. All governments lie, cheat, steal and kill innocent people and no government wants to lose a referendum. This is an information war www.infowars.com

    Conspiracy Theory forum is thataway
    >>


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  • #292
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,087 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    eureka1978 wrote: »
    Fianna Fail said the FG informal polls revealed about 53 per cent yes, and that contradicts what the FG'ers were saying that it was 60%....so it's just another lie. Never throw in the towel until it's over and the votes counted. This type of dubious "informal" polling just gives the government an excuse to cheat and do ballot box stuffing to match and exceed this lying polling at selected locations like Ballsbridge where all the Dublin votes are to be transported to overnight for counting in the am. All governments lie, cheat, steal and kill innocent people and no government wants to lose a referendum. This is an information war www.infowars.com

    Of course now they have to go and stuff enough Yes votes to make it 60%.

    Fools. If they had said nothing they could have stopped at 50.1%


  • #293
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,329 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    marco_polo wrote: »
    Of course now they have to go and stuff enough Yes votes to make it 60%.

    Fools. If they had said nothing they could have stopped at 50.1%

    :D very good.


  • #294
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    cupocoffee wrote: »
    Any NO voter is, in my opinion, a complete moron.

    Come out .... show yourselves.

    After tomorrow you may return to the shadows !!

    Have you read through the thread you enlightened genius?

    Do you see that even in the poll included here that a good proportion of people were against a Yes vote?

    A few posts after the thing has ended really shows your thin skin

    And then you call those people morons.. where were you during the debate?.... Pleading with your mam to vote on your behalf?

    I can do insults too


  • #295
    Euro_Kraut
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭Euro_Kraut


    cupocoffee wrote: »
    Any NO voter is, in my opinion, a complete moron.

    Cop on! Any person who voted gets my respect. Its the people who were too tired up in their own lives to vote that deserve to be derided.

    The NO side fought a tough campaign. But at least they fought which can only be for Ireland in the long run.


  • #296
    spongeman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 554 ✭✭✭spongeman


    cupocoffee wrote: »
    Any NO voter is, in my opinion, a complete moron.

    Come out .... show yourselves.

    After tomorrow you may return to the shadows !!

    Im a no voter, but Im not a moron.
    Brains did'nt flow down in your case, did they ?


  • #297
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,329 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    cupocoffee wrote: »
    Any NO voter is, in my opinion, a complete moron.

    Come out .... show yourselves.

    After tomorrow you may return to the shadows !!

    You can't generalise like that and say NO voters are morons. Anyone who voted yes or no based purely on lies during the campaign without informing themselves of the facts could be argued to be a moron though.


  • #298
    Stainless_Steel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭Stainless_Steel


    I voted (no) for a more democratic Europe.


  • #299
    MikeC101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭MikeC101


    I think an awful lot of genuine No voters were marginalised by the attention grabbing antics of Cóir, Libertas, and on boards a dedicated force of shills spouting lies ad nauseum. It got to the point where admitting you were a No voter could easily bring down a thunderstorm of ridicule for siding with Cóir, and the likes of Ganley, which I think led to an understandable "battening down the hatches" and digging into the trenches situation between the two camps.

    Which is a shame really, but what can you do - referenda in Ireland just seem to go that way.


  • #300
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    cupocoffee wrote: »
    Aha, a bite :)

    What were you voting for ?

    The Euro 1.84 poster ?
    The "people died for your freedom poster - vote no" ?
    The "defend workers rights" poster ?


    This was a simple vote - be with Europe - or be on the fringes of Europe.

    Ireland must have a very high opinion of itself to potentially be saying "NO" - all I'm saying is that if you're one of those people then there's a bit of a reasoning block up there. I'm not saying you can't - just that you're a bit dim if you do :)


    You know its possible for people to vote on their own opinions rather then stupid slogans...............such as "be with Europe or be on the fringes"


    Some would actually consider Ireland to be more important in Europe right now (considering they need our consent to ratify a treaty) then we will be if this vote passes, which it seems like it will...... we will have a .8% vote in Europe, that my friend could be referred to as the fringes


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  • #301
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    Stainless_Steel wrote: »
    I voted (no) for a more democratic Europe.
    Oh the irony.


This discussion has been closed.
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