Gardai (and Shatter) failed to enforce the law at RIRA funeral

TheChizler · 10-09-2012 5:57pm

Goro wrote: »

TheChizler wrote: »

Weren't the guns fired at his house, not the graveyard?

My mistake. But the point remains, a few snipers should have been watching this. They knew it was going to happen.

Terrorists are terrorists and when they start firing off guns in public places it's time for the state to start applying lethal force.

Possibly my mistake! There's a lot of conflicting reports out there.

Laminations · 10-09-2012 6:01pm

I'd also take issue with the media and their portrayal of the criminal underworld and dissident republicans. Actions like what happened at this funeral should be lambasted in the press. Too often the media dub these criminal figures with 'hard sounding' nicknames and glamourise or mystify their wicked lives. 'The Beast' was this fellas name, a right goer in the sack according to a Sunday World article... They should be referred to by humiliating monikers, and disgraceful events like this funeral should be reported as 'a mickey mouse parade by fat masked men, likely involved in gangland criminality, and too dim to effect change by any other way than violence' rather than a 'dissident republican show of strength'.

They may be criticised by certain media but they are not ridiculed enough.

Goro · 10-09-2012 6:02pm

Laminations wrote: »

Eh no. That is too Dredd-esque.

Ah sure we will just let the nice masked terrorists shoot their guns anywhere they want. Wouldn't want to trouble the Garda or the defense forces with such petty things as masked terrorist organizations parading around a housing estate shooting live rounds.

ShatterResistant · 10-09-2012 6:03pm

martomcg wrote: »

I agree the Gardai did the right thing by not getting involved. Polititions now bashing them isnt fair.

Which politicians were bashing them? Minister Alan Shatter defended their decision.

Laminations · 10-09-2012 6:05pm

Goro wrote: »

Ah sure we will just let the nice masked terrorists shoot their guns anywhere they want.

Crowd control doesn't have to involve snipers. If the gardai want to make sure no guns get into an area they are well capable of doing so. If the gardai are to argue a concert shouldn't be allowed, where a small element are thuggish then they should've taken steps to intervene in a dissident republican funeral where almost everyone is thuggish.

Goro · 10-09-2012 6:10pm

Laminations wrote: »

Crowd control doesn't have to involve snipers. If the gardai want to make sure no guns get into an area they are well capable of doing so. If the gardai are to argue a concert shouldn't be allowed, where a small element are thuggish then they should've taken steps to intervene in a dissident republican funeral where almost everyone is thuggish.

I do agree with you, and I am by no means an authority on the correct methods.

I am just appalled that they let it go off like this.

Surely the state could have mustered something together. Even if it was just crowd control.

karma_ · 10-09-2012 6:16pm

Goro wrote: »

I do agree with you, and I am by no means an authority on the correct methods.

I am just appalled that they let it go off like this.

Surely the state could have mustered something together. Even if it was just crowd control.

It's already been pointed out in this thread, the Gardai are following on from the experience of the PSNI and the RUC before them in how to deal with these situations, and they certainly have far more experience in matters of this nature. Thankfully saner heads were in charge of the policing for this, rather than the quasi-fascistic garbage being proposed in this thread.

Goro · 10-09-2012 6:20pm

karma_ wrote: »

It's already been pointed out in this thread, the Gardai are following on from the experience of the PSNI and the RUC before them in how to deal with these situations, and they certainly have far more experience in matters of this nature. Thankfully saner heads were in charge of the policing for this, rather than the quasi-fascistic garbage being proposed in this thread.

The Garda are not the PSNI and clearly the PSNI's methods don't work up North.

If the PSNI put out an announcement that they would be applying deadly force in future sectarian rioting than I guarantee you riots would become a very rare thing indeed.

SocSocPol · 10-09-2012 6:23pm

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Surely the fact that it went off peacefully in the end showed that the Gardai acted responsibly.

If the Gardai did move in; then who knows what kind of chaos we'd be talking about here, and no doubt the same people would be complaining that the gardai were heavy-handed.

You have to pick your battles in life; the Gardai made a decision to stand back and it worked.

Strange how anyone could describe a bunch of masked thugs firing shots in a residential area as "peaceful".

karma_ · 10-09-2012 6:24pm

Goro wrote: »

The Garda are not the PSNI and clearly the PSNI's methods don't work up North.

If the PSNI put out an announcement that they would be applying deadly force in future sectarian rioting than I guarantee you riots would become a very rare thing indeed.

That is a fairly extreme viewpoint you have there.

karma_ · 10-09-2012 6:27pm

SocSocPol wrote: »

Strange how anyone could describe a bunch of masked thugs firing shots in a residential area as "peaceful".

In fairness, that's just semantics, it went off relatively peacefully, in that there was no violent confrontation and no one was hurt.

Laminations · 10-09-2012 6:28pm

karma_ wrote: »

It's already been pointed out in this thread, the Gardai are following on from the experience of the PSNI and the RUC before them in how to deal with these situations, and they certainly have far more experience in matters of this nature. Thankfully saner heads were in charge of the policing for this, rather than the quasi-fascistic garbage being proposed in this thread.

There are sectarian tensions in the north that don't apply here. Some people my view the RUC or PSNI as a foreign police force symbolising the occupation of their land. The gardai cannot be viewed like that.

As for quasi-fascistic, please explain

Goro · 10-09-2012 6:29pm

karma_ wrote: »

That is a fairly extreme viewpoint you have there.

As extreme as allowing terrorist gangs to fire live weapons in our capital?

I am a very normal and tolerant person, and not in any way extreme politically. I am all for democracy and defending that democracy from thugs should be a given for any police force!

I just don't see the point of pandering to terrorists and rioters. They can terrorize innocent people but we can't call for any stern action against them?

What should we do? Let them continue to wreak havoc and spread fear whenever the mood takes them?

karma_ · 10-09-2012 6:33pm

Goro wrote: »

What should we do? Let them continue to wreak havoc and spread fear whenever the mood takes them?

I think we should let the Gardai do their job, rather than pressing for reckless and extreme action.

tayto lover · 10-09-2012 6:36pm

Fair play to the Garda authorities on this. They made the right decisions and can deal with any identified law-breakers in their own time. To intervene would only have provided those responsible for this laughable farce with a platform from which to preach their out-dated rubbish..
All the incident proved is that there are still some members of the working-class communities who are easily led by gangsters and criminals.

Some people will never learn and to even start a thread on this instead of ignoring it is a mistake.

Goro · 10-09-2012 6:36pm

karma_ wrote: »

I think we should let the Gardai do their job, rather than pressing for reckless and extreme action.

Reckless is allowing terrorist organizations to fire guns in a crowded housing estate in broad daylight.

karma_ · 10-09-2012 6:37pm

Goro wrote: »

Reckless is allowing terrorist organizations to fire guns in a crowded housing estate in broad daylight.

I'm not going play this little game of tail chasing with you.

Sulla Felix · 10-09-2012 6:38pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

In an ideal world, yes, but starting a battle in a residential area would have ended badly.

The sooner people stop supporting these illegitimate organisations the better. These ***** talk about sovereignty, yet blatantly ignored the laws Ireland.

These people aren't dumb. A couple hundred oglaigh na heirean in full kit would have put the kibosh on it.

Laminations · 10-09-2012 8:53pm

tayto lover wrote: »

any identified law-breakers in their own time..

Thats fine if they identified them. I doubt they did with the big charade and distractions from the supporting crowd. As for the gun shots, do gardai know how many guns were used? The type of gun apart from semi-automatoc (which im almost sure you can't get a licence for? Did they retrieve any weapons in follow up searches? Did they allow the shooters leave the area with the guns? Look fair play if they get any arrests and charges to stick after this. But it still allowed public streets in a community that doesn't support dissident terrorists to be turned into a wild west type bandit land. If dissidents started discharging weapons in tribute to a trumped up gangland killer in Foxrock and the gardai stood by we'd surely see a different reaction. The army should've been there, even as a mere unarmed but imposing presence, to remind the funeral goers of the legitimate defence forces of this country.

mikemac1 · 10-09-2012 8:58pm

Laminations wrote: »

I'd also take issue with the media and their portrayal of the criminal underworld and dissident republicans. Actions like what happened at this funeral should be lambasted in the press. Too often the media dub these criminal figures with 'hard sounding' nicknames and glamourise or mystify their wicked lives. 'The Beast' was this fellas name, a right goer in the sack according to a Sunday World article...

I thought the media gave them nicknames to avoid being sued.

People know who they are but the paper won't come out and name them

This guy is named now but there are other criminals out there with nicknames.

Laminations · 10-09-2012 8:59pm

Goro wrote: »

I just don't see the point of pandering to terrorists and rioters. They can terrorize innocent people but we can't call for any stern action against them?

I agree with you that we need stern action with dissidents and criminal gangs but it's a bit far to suggest that rooftop snipers should assassinate people. The funeral should've been kept under control and any paramilitary dress up soldiers should've been arrested. Was the Garda helicopter involved even?

Laminations · 10-09-2012 9:02pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

I thought the media gave them nicknames to avoid being sued.

People know who they are but the paper won't come out and name them

This guy is named now but there are other criminals out their with nicknames.

Yes i know the reason is because they cannot legally name them but when choosing nicknames they could go for 'the coward', 'the paedophile', 'the stinkfinger', 'Mr impotent' etc rather than 'the general', 'the don', 'the beast'.

Why give them fearsome names??

mikemac1 · 10-09-2012 9:10pm

Sells papers

Laminations · 10-09-2012 9:14pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

Sells papers

And 'the wanker from the ding dong sausage gang strikes again' wouldn't sell papers?? Anyway, they should have some social responsibility that extends beyond their need to glorify criminals to sell papers.

laoch na mona · 10-09-2012 9:17pm

it was a funeral nice of the guards to have the decency to hold back

the can arrest people a few weeks later

Sierra Oscar · 10-09-2012 9:21pm

If they had intervened we would have a thread decrying the actions of the Gardai - because ultimately it would have led to an incident unfolding amongst the mourners, and would give oxygen to the dissidents that they so dearly want.

TheChizler · 10-09-2012 9:22pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

If they had intervened we would have a thread decrying the actions of the Gardai - because ultimately it would have led to an incident unfolding amongst the mourners, and would give the oxygen to the dissidents that they so dearly want.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't! And probably damned if you do somewhere in the middle. Wouldn't like to be making the call.

Laminations · 10-09-2012 9:25pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

If they had intervened we would have a thread decrying the actions of the Gardai - because ultimately it would have led to an incident unfolding amongst the mourners, and would give the oxygen to the dissidents that they so dearly want.

Maybe. But not started by me.

There was apparently an agreement with funeral organisers and the gardai. The gardai held their side of the deal, the others didn't. That's the respect they show the people of this country.

Laminations · 10-09-2012 9:29pm

TheChizler wrote: »

Damned if you do, damned if you don't! And probably damned if you do somewhere in the middle. Wouldn't like to be making the call.

Oh I agree. The gardai have a very difficult job and I support them in everything they do. The amount of criminals 'known to gardai' must make them so annoyed seeing the courts hand down ineffective hand slaps and sentences. This isn't a bash the gardai thread. Nor will you find me on the 'cut their wages' threads. I just think this decision sent the wrong message, especially now that we hear there was an agreement ignored by the funeral organisers.

snafuk35 · 10-09-2012 9:30pm

This thread is getting ridiculous.
The Gardaí have videos and photos of everyone who showed their faces at that funeral.

Some posters seem to think the army should have machine gunned the crowd or something. Laughable stuff.

tayto lover · 10-09-2012 9:33pm

snafuk35 wrote: »

This thread is getting ridiculous.
The Gardaí have videos and photos of everyone who showed their faces at that funeral.

Some posters seem to think the army should have machine gunned the crowd or something. Laughable stuff.

Exactly. Better to ignore the incident as to do otherwise only gives these lowlifes publicity they couldn't get otherwise.

Laminations · 10-09-2012 9:34pm

snafuk35 wrote: »

This thread is getting ridiculous.
The Gardaí have videos and photos of everyone who showed their faces at that funeral.

It's the people that covered their faces and fired weapons that are the problem. I think identifying them will be a problem.

Some posters seem to think the army should have machine gunned the crowd or something. Laughable stuff.

Yes some posters are being extreme in their suggestions. Suggesting better preparation and crowd control is not laughable. They'll know not to make a deal with the devils in the future.

Duiske · 10-09-2012 9:44pm

Fenian Army wrote: »

The Brits knew better than to interfere with IRA funerals in the north (which admittedly tended to be much larger), just not worth it.

Exactly. This video below shows how things can turn nasty. Its a clip of what happened in 1987 at Emyvale, Co Monaghan, when detectives tried to stop a van carrying IRA men who had just fired a volley of shots over the coffin of Jim Lynagh, one of the 8 men killed in the Loughgall ambush. Its pure luck one of those Gardai were not seriously injured or killed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVN79CWeDxY

snafuk35 · 10-09-2012 9:59pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Exactly. Better to ignore the incident as to do otherwise only gives these lowlifes publicity they couldn't get otherwise.

How would you have intervened without the situation going completely out of control and without people getting shot and killed?

I'm all ears.

tayto lover · 10-09-2012 10:09pm

snafuk35 wrote: »

How would you have intervened without the situation going completely out of control and without people getting shot and killed?

I'm all ears.

My post was in agreement with yours. The Garda were right in what they did.

hatrickpatrick · 10-09-2012 10:38pm

This is ridiculous. It's just like those people in America who claim that more armed people inside Aurora Theatre would have prevented the bloodbath - as if a shootout in a dark enclosed space packed full of people would have saved more lives than it would have cost.

Furthermore, do you really want to give these guys the opportunity to paint themselves as martyrs?

Disrupting this funeral would have caused far more bullsh!t than it would have prevented.

zom · 10-09-2012 11:14pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Furthermore, do you really want to give these guys the opportunity to paint themselves as martyrs?

Do you mean we should accept RIRA existence, let them play their games (shooting, pipe bombing etc.)? Should we threat them as a kind of local folklore, part of heritage the same way as travelers and Gaelic language? Because this is really how it's look like. There are some comments on foreign websites - try to read them.

tayto lover · 10-09-2012 11:31pm

zom wrote: »

Do you mean we should accept RIRA existence, let them play their games (shooting, pipe bombing etc.)? Should we threat them as a kind of local folklore, part of heritage the same way as travelers and Gaelic language? Because this is really how it's look like. There are some comments on foreign websites - try to read them.

Maybe we could send this crowd out to talk to the Troika. They might put the frighteners on them and get our debt lowered.

hatrickpatrick · 11-09-2012 1:17am

zom wrote: »

Do you mean we should accept RIRA existence, let them play their games (shooting, pipe bombing etc.)? Should we threat them as a kind of local folklore, part of heritage the same way as travelers and Gaelic language? Because this is really how it's look like. There are some comments on foreign websites - try to read them.

All I said was that starting some sort of shootout at a funeral isn't going to solve any problems and it would almost definitely cause a whole crapload of them.

JRant · 11-09-2012 2:00am

Sure sit back and go with the flow must of been the word from Garda HQ.
Who's to say those people who fired the shots are even residents of this State?
Replace RIRA members/sympathizers with students/crusties/love Ulster parade or English hooligans in Lansdowne rd and we see a completely different approach. What of the civilians who were injured in these situations?
I don't blame the Garda who were there as they were Desperately out manned and out gunned. However this nonsense has no place on our streets and should have been met head on by the top brass.

Fenian Army · 11-09-2012 2:07am

Duiske wrote: »

Exactly. This video below shows how things can turn nasty. Its a clip of what happened in 1987 at Emyvale, Co Monaghan, when detectives tried to stop a van carrying IRA men who had just fired a volley of shots over the coffin of Jim Lynagh, one of the 8 men killed in the Loughgall ambush. Its pure luck one of those Gardai were not seriously injured or killed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVN79CWeDxY

Thanks for that, the scene of the detective climbing out of the ditch soaking wet made my day

flash1080 · 11-09-2012 10:32am

TheChizler wrote: »

What test did they fail?

The Leaving Cert.

karma_ · 11-09-2012 10:45am

Arrests have now been made by the PSNI after they stopped a car on the main Dublin-Belfast road and found weapons. We can't know for sure but it's not too much of a stretch to speculate this might have been the result of intelligence gathered at the funeral.

tayto lover · 11-09-2012 11:07am

Fenian Army wrote: »

Thanks for that, the scene of the detective climbing out of the ditch soaking wet made my day

You would probably be the first to run to him crying if anything happened to one of your family. You need to cop on just like the fools involved in the funeral farce.

Fenian Army · 11-09-2012 11:12am

tayto lover wrote: »

You would probably be the first to run to him crying if anything happened to one of your family. You need to cop on just like the fools involved in the funeral farce.

He should have known better than to try and interfere with a funeral... as the garda did in this case.

OldNotWIse · 11-09-2012 11:17am

MaxSteele wrote: »

A racketeer and thug being given a gun salute like he was some sort of hero. Sick.

These modern day idiots have given a fierce kick in the face to deceased republicans who actually died for legitimate political reasons instead of controlling protection and drug rackets.

Like it's effing Donaghmede, not the Bogside, Falls road or border area. Wannabe's and dress up enthusiasts. Ignore.

Yup, the sooner we stop giving these scumbags media coverage the better. Just ignore and let them kill each other if they want.

Edit: Just searched for the offensive word in an online dictionary...never actually considered where it came from before. Hilarious... Up there with "malteaser" and "tayto"

tayto lover · 11-09-2012 11:18am

Fenian Army wrote: »

He should have known better than to try and interfere with a funeral... as the garda did in this case.

And people should know better than to glorify fools and criminals.

donaghs · 11-09-2012 11:23am

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Don't understand why he was given a paramilitary funeral.

Even report in the media talked about how he was just a mafia man who actually screwed over the paramilitaries by pocketing their fundraising.:pac:

I was thinking that too. Wasn't "taxing" drug dealers his main source of income?

Maybe other criminal gangs should style themselves as patriotic "paramilitatries"?

tayto lover · 11-09-2012 11:28am

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Don't understand why he was given a paramilitary funeral.

Even report in the media talked about how he was just a mafia man who actually screwed over the paramilitaries by pocketing their fundraising.:pac:

Because some people are too stupid to realize they are being conned.

JustinDee · 11-09-2012 11:49am

The sham funeral procession was handled very well indeed by the police, who showed great restraint in a pressure situation.

On the plus side, it 'outed' sympathisers of this deluded cause (for want of a better word) into one place. A surveillance team's dream. Also on the plus side, it highlighted how low these criminals stoop to maintain control over decent everyday and law abiding citizens.

On the downside however, its simply depressing that people who weren't even born during the height of the so-called Troubles latch on to its remnants who delusively cling to a hijacked cause.
This minority ignores the democratic rights of this island's inhabitants under the conceit that their ignorant sociopathic activity is allegedly noble when it is nothing more than criminal in everything it does.

Gardai (and Shatter) failed to enforce the law at RIRA funeral

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