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Anglo Trial - Read Mod Warning in First post

12467…23

Comments

  • #152
    TeddyTedson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭TeddyTedson


    tayto lover wrote: »
    RTE saying that the judge directed the jury to disregard a lot of stuff :rolleyes:
    Now who appoints these judges again?
    People like this
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZI_aEalijE


  • #153
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    Could you explain exactly what he did wrong? Do you even know or is it all just soapboxing?

    Hiding multi million euro personal loans from audits and statements through cleverly times swaps with Iish Nationwde should have been a crime, if it turns out that it wasn't.


  • #154
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Jumboman wrote: »
    Offences against the state act would be a start.

    Would you be happy when he was acquitted of that?


  • #155
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    I hope they now don't find out that it was all my doing.

    Yikes!


  • #156
    Adamantium
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭Adamantium


    Its only justice if I like the result.

    Otherwise I'll simply resort to ad homenim remarks about the individual followed by a nebulous ramble, that is based on my own fanciful narrative (you were there of course, even though you weren't, so you'd know) and not the evidence presented.

    Please tell me where and when they burned all the evidence that could have been presented?

    End of line.


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  • #157
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    thebaz wrote: »
    I suppose bankrupting the state is doing no wrong

    The state isn't bankrupt though? Why are you sensationalising?


  • #158
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,103 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Candie wrote: »
    I know exactly what he was saying.

    People are very selective in how they take a legal verdict. A guy found not guilty of rape would have every sympathy and probably calls for his accuser to be sent to prison by many of the people on this thread.

    No one gives Fitzpatrick that kind of consideration, but his not guilty verdict is every bit as valid as anyone elses for any other crime.

    But you have to temper that with the fact that it wasn't a unanimous verdict. I get your point though.


  • #159
    I am pie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭I am pie


    "This wouldn't happen in America"

    Given that the financial industry employs probably hundreds of times more employees in the US, that the losses were much greater there and that they had a much greater social impact (loss of houses and jobs was greater than in Ireland) I wonder can you give us figures on the amount of bank executives locked up in the US? Post 2008 crisis?

    I think you'll find you probably have more fingers on one hand than there are bankers locked up there.


  • #160
    thebaz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,717 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    Candie wrote: »
    Seriously, you should have presented your evidence sooner, then the court could have used it.

    I wish to God I could - but our legal system is a pompous law onto itself -

    the sad fact is that most of the legal judiciary are unaware of the amount of pain inflicted by Anglo and the Nationwide and AIB


  • #161
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    Adamantium wrote: »
    Its only justice if I like the result.

    Otherwise I'll simply resort to ad homenim remarks about the individual followed by a nebulous ramble, that is based on my own fanciful narrative (you were there of course, even though you weren't, so you'd know) and not the evidence presented.

    Please tell me where and when they burned all the evidence that could have been presented?

    End of line.

    +1

    The faux outrage here is hilarious. Fitzpatrick was a wreckless ****e, and he was an integral part of an institution which led to a downturn in our economy . He's probably not the nicest man but I'm not going to pretend like I'm in a better position than the jurors in this complex trial to decide on his innocence.

    All the bar stool lawyers obviously think different though


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  • #162
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    tayto lover wrote: »
    RTE saying that the judge directed the jury to disregard a lot of stuff :rolleyes:
    Now who appoints these judges again?

    Judges have to tell juries to disregard testimony or items that would influence their judgement unfairly - past reputation for example, as people have the right to a fair trial and a fair trial is about particular charges and nothing else. It's their job.

    What little I did hear about this on the radio included a report that the judge instructed the jury not to try Fitzpatrick for the collapse of the banks and the end of the Celtic Tiger. I think that's fair enough and I think that's what has people so angry here - they're not getting the satisfaction of killing a scapegoat.


  • #163
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    thebaz wrote: »
    I wish to God I could - but our legal system is a pompous law onto itself -

    the sad fact is that most of the legal judiciary are unaware of the amount of pain inflicted by Anglo and the Nationwide and AIB

    that's not a fact. That's your opinion


  • #164
    Smidge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    Why do people throw this self-important ****e around?

    We're not the only country in the world that bad things happen in

    Is that supposed to make people feel better about it?
    That's just as dismissive as the good old Ireland comment.
    Fact is he was found not guilty.
    But ANYONE who sees this as a just verdict clearly hasn't felt any effects or repercussions of what he, and his cohorts actually did.


  • #165
    thebaz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,717 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    Diego Simeone wrote: »
    The state isn't bankrupt though? Why are you sensationalising?

    hang on , have we not just been released from an IMF bailout - was that not caused by Anglo, the Nationwide and AIB ?? - they bankrupted this state with sheer greed, and get off scott free - ****e em


  • #166
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Candie wrote: »
    Why shoudn't he direct the jury in what they should or shouldn't consider relevant? Thats the job, happens all the time in most trials.

    Do we find out what, and why it was deemed as such, the disregarded evidence was? [/serious]


  • #167
    blackplum123
    Registered Users Posts: 266 ✭✭blackplum123


    I feel physically sick after hearing this . The ordinary person screwed for wrongs these f..kers did and as expected the so called elite are untouchable!
    All I can say is the system is absolutely perverted


  • #168
    Adamantium
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭Adamantium


    c_man wrote: »
    Did Lee Adama present his closing case or something??

    That speech was a great meditation on how law needs to work.
    One of the best moments in in that series.


  • #169
    comewatmay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭comewatmay


    Diego Simeone wrote: »
    The state isn't bankrupt though? Why are you sensationalising?


    80bn euro bank debt. It is bamkrupt


  • #170
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    I am pie wrote: »
    "This wouldn't happen in America"

    Given that the financial industry employs probably hundreds of times more employees in the US, that the losses were much greater there and that they had a much greater social impact (loss of houses and jobs was greater than in Ireland) I wonder can you give us figures on the amount of bank executives locked up in the US? Post 2008 crisis?

    I think you'll find you probably have more fingers on one hand than there are bankers locked up there.

    The DOJ decided they were too big to jail. Compare with the Junk bond traders in the 80's or Enron. You are right though.


  • #171
    Jumboman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    Heres what should of happened deserve-to-be-shot.jpg


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  • #172
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    comewatmay wrote: »
    80bn euro bank debt. It is bamkrupt

    being in debt doesn't equate to being bankrupt. Not that hard to grasp really.


  • #173
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    thebaz wrote: »
    I suppose bankrupting the state is doing no wrong

    But he didn't.


  • #174
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    Jumboman wrote: »
    Heres what should of happened deserve-to-be-shot.jpg

    Shoot them?

    Frankly that's pretty disgusting and barbaric


  • #175
    comewatmay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭comewatmay


    Jumboman wrote: »
    Heres what should of happened deserve-to-be-shot.jpg

    The pain they have caused people in this country is crazy.

    A shooting would be too good for that scumbag.

    Deserves to rot the rest of his days in jail but sadly that won't happen.

    Hopefully the media hound his every move and make living in Dublin for him very uncomfortable.


  • #176
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    RollieFingers wrote: »
    He walked into a restaurant in Greystones before the trial and the whole place got up and left, haha, hopefully the shunning continues!

    It won't, it will be a matter of weeks before his pals like 'Mammy' in RTE have Seanie on their shows to complete his rehabilitation. The financial meltdown was like the Omagh bombing, and Monaghan and Dublin bombings, the Sophie Toscan du Plantier murder etc.etc. nobody was responsible... what a country.

    Given the attitude of some on this thread about the verdict - while admitting that they don't themselves fully understand the case (I don't either) - did the jury? It took them 13.5 hours - hardly a sign that they were of a single mind. There would have been more chance of a conviction if the trial had taken place in front of a judge or panel of judges.


  • #177
    thebaz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,717 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    that's not a fact. That's your opinion

    sadly some peoples opinions are more valuable than others , particularly those down at the Law Library


  • #178
    I am pie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭I am pie


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    The DOJ decided they were too big to jail. Compare with the Junk bond traders in the 80's or Enron. You are right though.

    The DOJ did not decide they were too big to fail, certainly this was not a DOJ decision, more of a Treasury/Reserve decision.

    Note, the insurance company at the centre of the storm paid the US people back at a profit. It is now 100% debt free to the US people, so it was undeniably a good idea to bail them out on a P&L basis alone. Loss would be greater, instead they made a profit.

    Be nice if some Irish companies were forced to do likewise.


  • #179
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    But he didn't.

    Link?


  • #180
    who_ru
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,033 ✭✭✭who_ru


    Is the implication of the judgement that the regulator knew what was happening and did nothing to stop it?. If so then his actions had official approval, and he cannot be held responsible for what happened as a result of his actions.

    This is an own goal of spectacular proportions.


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  • #181
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    hardly a sign that they were of a single mind.

    True - it was a majority verdict, not unanimous.

    Also, everyone should bear in mind that they have yet to reach a verdict on the other two in the dock.


  • #182
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Link?

    You want a link to something saying Fitzpatrick didn't bankrupt Ireland :confused:

    One would think it's pretty obvious that our economic downturn wasn't down to the actions of one man


  • #183
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    comewatmay wrote: »
    He gave loans to people to buy shares in a bank which inflated the share price. People purchased shares in this bank thinking it was more liquid than it was.

    That is what he did wrong. Not illegal but wrong.


    "FORMER Anglo Irish Bank chairman and chief executive Sean Fitzpatrick is to go on trial accused of unlawfully helping to back a group of investors – including members of Sean Quinn's family – to buy shares in the financial institution in 2008."
    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/tanned-fitzpatrick-bailed-after-facing-bank-fraud-charges-26879303.html

    It IS illegal, for jaysus sake.


  • #184
    Stavros Murphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,440 ✭✭✭Stavros Murphy


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    Why do people throw this self-important ****e around?

    We're not the only country in the world that bad things happen in

    I don't care about your fantasy "rest of the world". I care about the bit I live in with my family and judge it on the standards I see being applied. White collar - be grand. Blue collar - be damned. I lol at your "self important" bit too.


  • #185
    longhalloween
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭longhalloween


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    Shoot them?

    Frankly that's pretty disgusting and barbaric

    Imagine being that guys child and seeing that headline


  • #186
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    Nodin wrote: »
    "FORMER Anglo Irish Bank chairman and chief executive Sean Fitzpatrick is to go on trial accused of unlawfully helping to back a group of investors – including members of Sean Quinn's family – to buy shares in the financial institution in 2008."
    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/tanned-fitzpatrick-bailed-after-facing-bank-fraud-charges-26879303.html

    It IS illegal, for jaysus sake.

    Jurors thought different


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  • #187
    Jumboman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    comewatmay wrote: »
    Watching him on 6ome there. Absolutly sickening.

    Wants curtesy? F*uck sake. He should be hounded out of the country by the media.

    He broke no law but he did very wrong.

    The jury judged him on legislation from 1963!!!!

    Makes my blood boil this.


    The man has no shame. If I was in his position I would be embarrassed that I cost the state billions but he thinks its all a big joke.

    I hope the media hound him for rest of his life.


  • #188
    thebaz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,717 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    But he didn't.

    well he certainly played his part , along with about 10 other senior figures , or should i say bastions of Irish industry or captains of the banking world.


  • #189
    I am pie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭I am pie


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    The DOJ decided they were too big to jail. Compare with the Junk bond traders in the 80's or Enron. You are right though.

    ps...the regulatory regime permitted a lot of things to happen that were not legal in the 80s and 90s. Human greed on an institutional level facilitated a lot of this.

    In Ireland the regulatory regime reduced to being as powerful as a wet fart. Again, greed bought elections, success helped turn a blind eye.


  • #190
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    If it was so hard to prove that he was guilty of anything, even ONE of the ten charges, why bring the case in the first place?

    How much is this going to cost the state now in Lawyers' fees? And for what?


  • #191
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    Jurors thought different


    No, they found him not guilty. Rather a different thing.


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  • #192
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    Stavros Murphy wrote: »
    I don't care about your fantasy "rest of the world". I care about the bit I live in with my family and judge it on the standards I see being applied. White collar - be grand. Blue collar - be damned. I lol at your "self important" bit too.

    maybe don't say "only in Ireland" in future so


  • #193
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    It won't, it will be a matter of weeks before his pals like 'Mammy' in RTE have Seanie on their shows to complete his rehabilitation. The financial meltdown was like the Omagh bombing, and Monaghan and Dublin bombings, the Sophie Toscan du Plantier murder etc.etc. nobody was responsible... what a country.

    Given the attitude of some on this thread about the verdict - while admitting that they don't themselves fully understand the case (I don't either) - did the jury? It took them 13.5 hours - hardly a sign that they were of a single mind. There would have been more chance of a conviction if the trial had taken place in front of a judge or panel of judges.


    The jury were presented all the evidence, we weren't.

    And FYI, someone has been arrested for the Omagh bombing.


  • #194
    comewatmay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭comewatmay


    Nodin wrote: »
    "FORMER Anglo Irish Bank chairman and chief executive Sean Fitzpatrick is to go on trial accused of unlawfully helping to back a group of investors – including members of Sean Quinn's family – to buy shares in the financial institution in 2008."
    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/tanned-fitzpatrick-bailed-after-facing-bank-fraud-charges-26879303.html

    It IS illegal, for jaysus sake.

    The jury just found him not guilty?


  • #195
    Spring Onion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,087 ✭✭✭Spring Onion


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    what's your own take on the matter? Can you explain it?

    You're....angry :D


  • #196
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    It won't, it will be a matter of weeks before his pals like 'Mammy' in RTE have Seanie on their shows to complete his rehabilitation. The financial meltdown was like the Omagh bombing, and Monaghan and Dublin bombings, the Sophie Toscan du Plantier murder etc.etc. nobody was responsible... what a country.

    Given the attitude of some on this thread about the verdict - while admitting that they don't themselves fully understand the case (I don't either) - did the jury? It took them 13.5 hours - hardly a sign that they were of a single mind. There would have been more chance of a conviction if the trial had taken place in front of a judge or panel of judges.

    It's laughable to say the least. There are no laws in little old Ireland for what happened at Anglo. In reality corruption or fraud does not exist for the well connected. Good luck to him.


  • #197
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    Spring Onion wrote: »
    You're....angry :D

    Am I?


  • #198
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Link?

    What?!? Why not provide me a link proving that he did bankrupt the state.


  • #199
    RollieFingers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,641 ✭✭✭RollieFingers


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    that's def not true. As much as you probably want to believe it. Majority of the population wouldn't even recognise him

    It is Ugo, I work there!


  • #200
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    RollieFingers wrote: »
    It is Ugo, I work there!

    what restaurant out of interest?


  • #201
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    Thank God for the jury system.


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