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Is Emigrating the Only way to Find Work and have a Better life These days?

12346»

Comments

  • #252
    Yag reuoY
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭Yag reuoY


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    The political party and bulletproof policies might though.


    I have no advice for those who give up.

    You can't do much when the potato is rotten to the core, I'm afraid. :(


  • #253
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    It's just an example of how people can be proactive and actually achieve something tangible.
    A shade over one percent long term unemployment during the height of the boom, and this is the highly motivated and educated workforce the government is bound and determined to drive from our shores. Is it any wonder Irish emigrants do so well?


  • #254
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Yag reuoY wrote: »
    You can't do much when the potato is rotten to the core, I'm afraid. :(
    The potato isn't rotten to the core. Its just growing in a sour field.


  • #255
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Yag reuoY wrote: »
    I'm sure you have the best intentions for your country;however, Ireland is absolutely ****ed for the next 20 years or so. Your romantic keyboard flourishes cannot change this. The copious amounts of debt this small(in every sense of the word) island owes render your objective futile.

    Unfortunately, this is just the economic aspect of the turmoil -- the fundamental problems stem from a far more deep-rooted social disease.

    Essentially: Ireland (the Rep. Of) is a failure as a nation in pretty much every way. Unless there is a miraculous awakening from the people I can't see any of the fundamental changes needed occuring.

    But keep on dreaming that the potato patch is blossoming when, in reality, a deadly famine is sweeping the land.

    To be honest with you, I would think that attitude will be fairly useless in any society, so good luck with that.


  • #256
    Yag reuoY
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭Yag reuoY


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Apologies, I had to go to a meeting.
    Why is it so important that I itemise what I do? Either you understand my premise or you don't. It's not rocket science.

    Just as an aside, the meeting I was at was for a business innovation centre committee I sit on. It offers rent free premises to start up businesses. There are already 5 different outfits there (none of them reporting any problems meeting targets so far) and tonight we accepted two new businesses, one of them is 3 lads coming together to set up a car modifying business. They have 4 months booked business ahead of them and one of the committee (voluntary) will mentor them. It's just an example of how people can be proactive and actually achieve something tangible.

    You might want to wait a least a year before crowing about this -- especially in that industry.


  • #257
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Yag reuoY wrote: »
    You might want to wait a least a year before crowing about this -- especially in that industry.

    Very good business plan and a willingness to work hard and diversify if neccesary. The point being, that they are being positive and proactive and don't see anything to be gained from sittting around in piques of rage. I am proud to be able to facilitate them....if they fail, I'll be there to dust them down and start again.


  • #258
    Yag reuoY
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭Yag reuoY


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Very good business plan and a willingness to work hard and diversify if neccesary. The point being, that they are being positive and proactive and don't see anything to be gained from sittting around in piques of rage. I am proud to be able to facilitate them....if they fail, I'll be there to dust them down and start again.

    Fair enough. However, I'd be interested to see how happy you are in 4 years time when another 16 bn has been sliced out of the economy.

    Maybe then you'll appreciate just why people are eager to abandon this entropic island.


  • #259
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    There was research done on it which I will try to find on google. There was a huge number who returned.
    Locally, of my leaving cert class all but 2 left the country in the 80's early 90's and almost all are back resident in Ireland, my area was not unique.

    The 80's and early 90's when you could not get a job for love nor money. Do you blame them for leaving...

    Where did your class mates go where they on permanent visa's anywhere or did they just go of on trips. Plus I assume they where early 20's.

    We have several thousands Irish here in Oz on working holiday visas. They may be here for a year or 2 but they are mostly going home at the end of that.

    They have not migrated just traveled. Just like we have a few thousand aussies in Ireland on the same Visas.


  • #260
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Yag reuoY wrote: »
    Fair enough. However, I'd be interested to see how happy you are in 4 years time when another 16 bn has been sliced out of the economy.

    Maybe then you'll appreciate just why people are eager to abandon this entropic island.

    It may get bad, but it was bad before. I lived through the 80's and that was bleak, depressing and it looked like there was no future. We are nowhere near that yet and I wonder will it get as bad. Maybe I'm an eternal optimist but I don't think it will. Why? Because I sense a much much more persisent demand for change, fundamental change, fueled primarily by this thing we are on here...the internet.
    There is no hiding place anymore, remember that the abuse that Haughey etc etc where engaged with happened during those years. What I am trying to say is that there has been an awakening and we must capitalise on it NOW.


  • #261
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Zambia232 wrote: »
    The 80's and early 90's when you could not get a job for love nor money. Do you blame them for leaving...

    Where did your class mates go where they on permanent visa's anywhere or did they just go of on trips. Plus I assume they where early 20's.

    We have several thousands Irish here in Oz on working holiday visas. They may be here for a year or 2 but they are mostly going home at the end of that.

    They have not migrated just traveled. Just like we have a few thousand aussies in Ireland on the same Visas.

    I have already said a few times on this thread that I have no problem with that and I think it should be mandatory.
    With regard to my classmates I would say that a fair few of them bought houses abroad, thats how settled they were. But the lure of Ireland in better times proved too strong.


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  • #262
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    What I am trying to say is that there has been an awakening and we must capitalise on it NOW.
    Have you got any suggestions on how that might be achieved? Those who vote, vote for those who have been filling potholes in the locality since 1996. Those who might vote otherwise are emigrating.


  • #263
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Apologies, I had to go to a meeting.
    Why is it so important that I itemise what I do?

    Because I'm not interested in vague waffle - if you're going to make claims I want to see them backed up otherwise I may as well just call bull**** on what you're saying.

    So, once more, what do you do to benefit your community? No stalling, no deflection just answer the question or we'll know you're completely full of ****.


  • #264
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Morkarleth wrote: »
    Because I'm not interested in vague waffle - if you're going to make claims I want to see them backed up otherwise I may as well just call bull**** on what you're saying.

    So, once more, what do you do to benefit your community? No stalling, no deflection just answer the question or we'll know you're completely full of ****.

    I have no desire to identify myself on here. It's one of the benefits of forums to be able to say what you want without having to be aware of local sensitivities, so I will maintain that if it's ok.

    I don't really care if you believe it or not, but let me ask you this. You have to 'suspend your disbelief' to enjoy a film or a book..... so pretend it is true for a minute, can you take anything positive from what I said, can you see it as 'doing something'?


  • #265
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    I'll take from your non-answer that you are, indeed, full of ****.

    Frankly, this whole thread seems like a very thin pretext to insult those who wish to leave the country so no, I'm not interested in entertaining your bald assertion.
    In such a case someone could come on thread, claim to be from the moon and I'd have to accept it.

    If you want to piss and moan about people leaving the country then at least have the integrity to do that and not couch it as some patriotic concern. If you're going to criticise others for not having solutions then you damn well better have some of your own.

    Sorry, you've dug your own hole here and I'm in no rush to help you out of it.


  • #266
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    Have you got any suggestions on how that might be achieved? Those who vote, vote for those who have been filling potholes in the locality since 1996. Those who might vote otherwise are emigrating.


    I think organising locally may be the only solution Amhrain Nua. There is nothing a pothole filler is scared of more than his electors turning on him. A campaign of escalating civil disobedience until certain things are done. Up to and including witholding taxes (not defaulting on them, witholding them) We have to force the governments hand in dealing with this crisis equitably (but I am not expert enough to know what that witholding might cause).


  • #267
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Morkarleth wrote: »
    I'll take from your non-answer that you are, indeed, full of ****.

    Frankly, this whole thread seems like a very thin pretext to insult those who wish to leave the country so no, I'm not interested in entertaining your bald assertion.
    In such a case someone could come on thread, claim to be from the moon and I'd have to accept it.

    If you want to piss and moan about people leaving the country then at least have the integrity to do that and not couch it as some patriotic concern. If you're going to criticise others for not having solutions then you damn well better have some of your own.

    Sorry, you've dug your own hole here and I'm in no rush to help you out of it.

    Whatever, I can't help you with your cynicism.


  • #268
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    It means the state is unable to gather revenue, thus unable to repay the money it owes, and is therefore unable to borrow to meet its expenses, since nobody will lend to it. A realistic solution to the conundrum is to do your time, put in the media hours, and convince people that the proper solution lies one way, not the other. Of course, that will take the best part of a decade, by which time the damage will be long done and its architects comfortably retired. Damned if I'm not of two minds about it.


  • #269
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    It means the state is unable to gather revenue, thus unable to repay the money it owes, and is therefore unable to borrow to meet its expenses, since nobody will lend to it. A realistic solution to the conundrum is to do your time, put in the media hours, and convince people that the proper solution lies one way, not the other. Of course, that will take the best part of a decade, by which time the damage will be long done and its architects comfortably retired. Damned if I'm not of two minds about it.

    I understand that, but the threat of it as part of a rolling campaign of civil disobedience (where you show the willingness and the numbers first) might knock a few heads together at government and European level?
    What are they going to do if the 'people' say we are not paying? I haven't heard it teased out anywhere.


  • #270
    csm
    Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭csm


    Vaguely been looking at this thread and someone may have already made the point I'm about to.

    What about those that went abroad in the 80s to do niche jobs that could not have been done in Ireland at that time? They then come back to Ireland when it is more successful and bring all their skills and experience with them. How can they be considered unpatriotic? Sure they have benefited themselves by emigrating but they also benefit the country on their return.

    I only mention it because I do such a job and would dearly love that Ireland would be able to provide work for me at the moment but it just can't. It's not due to the recession but the basic premise is the same. I can't get work so I move abroad.

    In the future I would love to build up the skills and experience to start a business in my field in Ireland, but I wouldn't be able to do that if I stayed in the country and worked in Burger King for 10 years.

    If I do that and employ people here, will I be looked down upon because I didn't pay my share of the deficit while I was abroad? Or will I be looked up to because I am providing employment for others?


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  • #271
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    What are they going to do if the 'people' say we are not paying? I haven't heard it teased out anywhere.
    Nothing, they can't be fired until the elections roll around. They'll let the unaffordable public sector do their work for them.


  • #272
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    With regard to my classmates I would say that a fair few of them bought houses abroad, thats how settled they were. But the lure of Ireland in better times proved too strong.

    So I have A house here in Oz. If I decided to sell that house and move back if things get all fantastic again come 2014. What would your position be that I am not welcome? Even if the reasons I am returning are not economic.

    Because I did not sit on the dole and wait for better times? Yes I did leave a job when I left but my leaving opened a position for person X who left another good job opening a position for person Y who stopped signing on the dole.

    In the boom years we could not get staff. In 1999-2000 my company flew an IT engineer from Sydney for interview alone! If the boom time comes around again we will need the skillled Irish wanting to return.


  • #273
    delonglad
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭delonglad


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I think organising locally may be the only solution Amhrain Nua. There is nothing a pothole filler is scared of more than his electors turning on him. A campaign of escalating civil disobedience until certain things are done. Up to and including witholding taxes (not defaulting on them, witholding them) We have to force the governments hand in dealing with this crisis equitably (but I am not expert enough to know what that witholding might cause).


    This is one of the biggest problems in Ireland, the pothole fillers, most of them never even fill a pothole. Any politicians I know stem from a dynasty or are attracted by the expenses they get for a job that involves ridiculously short hours, a few photo ops after someone else did some work. In fact I voted for a guy last time round that actually had moral values and good ideas but he was too young and too well educated to be a politician.

    Back on point how will civil disobedience help, if anything it will drive more people to emigrate. We already have civil disobedience with all the scumbags that live in modern Ireland. Crime is through the roof, drugs are everywhere in every class of citizen and the man on the street is just a victim of a corrupt and frankly rotten society. The gangsters stem from the very bottom class to the top at the dail and any honest Irish person knows people like this. From the young tradesman who shafted people to dry line a wall to the people who run the country.

    A revolution would be needed and will never happen. Even then who will run the country when this is all over?? FG, Labour, SF or some new party again corrupted by power?? The world we live in today is a different place to 10 years ago never mind the 80's. The guys in power now are bad but in my opinion they are the best of a bad lot. I'd like to see people elected to the Dail not parties. Offer everyone an opinion. Whats a back bencher now a days?? Most just lie down and accept whats said for fear of losing their pay cheque!!

    I love Ireland but it really is in a bad place at the moment and the biggest people to blame are ourselves! Our own ignorance got us here, the corrupt set it in place but we fueled it in one way or another. Nobody can deny it.


  • #274
    Jamiekelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭Jamiekelly


    @Happyman42
    People can come and go if they want. B**ching about it on boards.ie isn't gonna change anything. Its their choice.
    Maybe you should do us all a favor and....emigrate :pac:


  • #275
    senordingdong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    delonglad wrote: »
    This is one of the biggest problems in Ireland, the pothole fillers, most of them never even fill a pothole. Any politicians I know stem from a dynasty or are attracted by the expenses they get for a job that involves ridiculously short hours, a few photo ops after someone else did some work. In fact I voted for a guy last time round that actually had moral values and good ideas but he was too young and too well educated to be a politician.

    Back on point how will civil disobedience help, if anything it will drive more people to emigrate. We already have civil disobedience with all the scumbags that live in modern Ireland. Crime is through the roof, drugs are everywhere in every class of citizen and the man on the street is just a victim of a corrupt and frankly rotten society. The gangsters stem from the very bottom class to the top at the dail and any honest Irish person knows people like this. From the young tradesman who shafted people to dry line a wall to the people who run the country.

    A revolution would be needed and will never happen. Even then who will run the country when this is all over?? FG, Labour, SF or some new party again corrupted by power?? The world we live in today is a different place to 10 years ago never mind the 80's. The guys in power now are bad but in my opinion they are the best of a bad lot. I'd like to see people elected to the Dail not parties. Offer everyone an opinion. Whats a back bencher now a days?? Most just lie down and accept whats said for fear of losing their pay cheque!!

    I love Ireland but it really is in a bad place at the moment and the biggest people to blame are ourselves! Our own ignorance got us here, the corrupt set it in place but we fueled it in one way or another. Nobody can deny it.

    Hit the nail on the head, and it's really sad.


  • #276
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    delonglad wrote: »
    The guys in power now are bad but in my opinion they are the best of a bad lot. I'd like to see people elected to the Dail not parties.
    I've never seen a ballot sheet that offers me the choice of voting for FF or FG, have you? People are elected to the Dáil, not parties, which is the problem - the party's policies don't matter a damn as long as the potholes are filled. As for the best of a bad lot, I'll refrain from comment.


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  • #277
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    I am continually being characterised as being somebody who said that all emigration is wrong. From my very first post on this thread I have been careful about pinpointing the type of 'emigrant' I am talking about.
    If you wish to engage with me please step up from the juvenile taunts and read my posts. :rolleyes:


  • #278
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I am continually being characterised as being somebody who said that all emigration is wrong. From my very first post on this thread I have been careful about pinpointing the type of 'emigrant' I am talking about.
    If you wish to engage with me please step up from the juvenile taunts and read my posts. :rolleyes:


    Fair enough but the impression I have is if you leave due to bad times and expect to come back when times are good. You would view them in a bad light?


  • #279
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    delonglad wrote: »
    This is one of the biggest problems in Ireland, the pothole fillers, most of them never even fill a pothole. Any politicians I know stem from a dynasty or are attracted by the expenses they get for a job that involves ridiculously short hours, a few photo ops after someone else did some work. In fact I voted for a guy last time round that actually had moral values and good ideas but he was too young and too well educated to be a politician.

    Back on point how will civil disobedience help, if anything it will drive more people to emigrate. We already have civil disobedience with all the scumbags that live in modern Ireland. Crime is through the roof, drugs are everywhere in every class of citizen and the man on the street is just a victim of a corrupt and frankly rotten society. The gangsters stem from the very bottom class to the top at the dail and any honest Irish person knows people like this. From the young tradesman who shafted people to dry line a wall to the people who run the country.

    Anti social behaviou should not be confused with a targeted campaign of civil disobedience. Futile acts of expressing rage- like driving cement mixers at Dail Eireann -are just that, futile. What has to happen is a coming together of vested interests and the formulation of an escalating campaign of withdrawing from their 'tactile' support of this Government. I would suggest that it's first demand is the revealation of all information on the state of our country held by the Government. For instance, exactly who are these bondholders.


    delonglad wrote: »
    I love Ireland but it really is in a bad place at the moment and the biggest people to blame are ourselves! Our own ignorance got us here, the corrupt set it in place but we fueled it in one way or another. Nobody can deny it.

    I couldn't agree more and only anger mongers could deny that, but with the greatest of respect, that will get us nowhere. Accept it, and attempt to change it rather than play the blame game and give up.


  • #280
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    Juvenile taunts? Like your "rats" remark near the start of the thread?


  • #281
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Zambia232 wrote: »
    Fair enough but the impression I have is if you leave due to bad times and expect to come back when times are good. You would view them in a bad light?

    I have said that some people have to leave in a recession, the type of emigrant I am targeting are those who leave and reside in another country with the sole purpose of 'taking', they give nothing back whatsoever and moan continually from abroad about the ****hole they left behind.
    Then when things get better they move back to similiarly exploit and take, in the country of their birth. And again they fail to engage, and always, always are the first to moan when their affluence is threatened even if it is in the greater good. I see and listen to this type of person every day of the week. Hugely vocal and raging against the machine, but when it comes to any committment to change they run.
    You can emigrate and stay engaged with the country as I suspect you have. Would the people I am talking about vote if they had a 'postal vote'? Pigs might fly!


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  • #282
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    Plenty of work for smart, well qualified people. I guess the low lying fruit is the first to get bruised...


  • #283
    delonglad
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭delonglad


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    I've never seen a ballot sheet that offers me the choice of voting for FF or FG, have you? People are elected to the Dáil, not parties, which is the problem - the party's policies don't matter a damn as long as the potholes are filled. As for the best of a bad lot, I'll refrain from comment.

    Sorry my point might not have come across. What I meant was a Dail that is made up of people from different parties running the country. As in not just FF in power or FG, Labour, SF etc. That way I think everyones views would be on the table. Make them work the full year with the same holiday benefits as the ordinary worker, if they work overtime like normal people they'll get paid for it. At the end of the day its a job not some sort of noble tag.

    I think that would lead to a clear out of all the jokers. At the moment the system isn't working. Outside of Dublin your lucky to have a local representative in the Dail and if he's in the opposition he's useless as the opposing party will not listen. Have a look at the transport system and rail networks. Places are cut off from the big smoke and the Dail couldn't give a hoot and neither could most people from the big towns and cities!! As long as their buses and the luas are going on time their happy. Its the "as long as its not on my doorstep" mentality en-stowed in much of Ireland! Its sad but so very true.

    As for not commenting on the best of the bad bunch, i'm not a supporter of FF nor any other political party in this country as their all the same. I support a local candidate who will never make it because of the system. Which party do you support and why?

    Emigration is a right not a privilege! Most people don't want to do it but have no choice. I know there are a few people who dislike Ireland and get out for the hatred of the country but others do it for reasons uncontrolled by their desire to love their country.


  • #284
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Morkarleth wrote: »
    Juvenile taunts? Like your "rats" remark near the start of the thread?
    Is Ireland a ship?
    'Rats leaving a sinking ship' is a METAPHOR.
    If you can't understand why somebody uses metaphor I suggest you switch the internet off.


  • #285
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Perhaps not. The grass always looks greener on the other side. Nine times out of ten your destination will have similar problems to the city you just left


  • #286
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    delonglad wrote: »
    Which party do you support and why?
    You probably have signatures turned off, www.amhrannua.com.


  • #287
    jimthemental
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭jimthemental


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    You probably have signatures turned off, www.amhrannua.com.

    I didn't have sigs on either, good looking website, I'll read it later.

    I actually think that changing and streamlining our political system is one of the most important things we could do to stop future bouts of emmigration. Middle management has to be removed or at least trimmed severely. No more of the likes of FF setting up new committees every second day.


  • #288
    delonglad
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭delonglad


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    You probably have signatures turned off, www.amhrannua.com.

    Yeah their blocked or something until I get 25 posts. Nice website I shall have a read when I get home from work.

    EDIT:

    Just looked at your discussions forum, the website has been dead since April with only spam all over it. The latest topic sounds like a bunch of lost souls clinging onto some hope this Ronan guy (Leader maybe) will come back. Strange..


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