The Freemasons

robroy1234 · 21-02-2013 9:27am

Enno - I think you are confusing Freemasonry with Star Wars and the Jedi/Sith, with the Dark Side stuff. It would be great if we did have such powers. I have been in Freemasonry for about 10 years now and meet regularly with members who have been in Freemasonry for over 50 years and suffice it to say there are no terrible secrets, I do collect books, leaflets, and documents related to all things connected with Freemasonry, the Knight Templars, Rosicrucians, and just about everything else concerning the mysteries, myths, legends and history. I am a big fan of Celtic mythology especially the obscure myths.

As for escaping the wife - I don't think so., I am fortunate to have an outrageously gorgeous wife who is hotter than a park bench painted black in the middle of the Sahara at midday in July., however going to the lodge meetings gives her a break from me and not the other way round.

I do however very much appreciate the dismissive rudeness expressed to myself that I am constantly told that I am ignorant and blind to all sorts of things going on in Freemasonry.

getz · 21-02-2013 10:44am

The puppet masters.

wearing a shoe on one foot slipper on the other,they roll up their trouser leg bear their chest,are blindfolded and tied with a hangmans noose and, whilst standing on a marble chessboard with a dagger pressed to their hearts ,swear oaths of secrecy,allegiance,and mutual aid. in the west yorkshire police its known that a least 20% are masons and most of the senior officers, one of them has taken his oaths all the way,he is now being investigated because of his attempt to pervert the course of justice,by getting in touch with other police forces in 2009 to drop the cases of child abuse by jimmy saville.

Absolam · 21-02-2013 11:56am

A money making group.

Despite the feeling we've been down this road before.....
I understood the retired police officer being investigated hasn't been named. Leaving aside the fact that he hasn't been charged, let alone found guilty of any wrongdoing (yet... perhaps), I wonder how anyone has established an unnamed person is a Freemason who has 'taken his oaths all the way' (although I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean), and if so, that his membership might be relevant to the investigation.
Interesting statistic on the West Yorkshire police. Since police officers are not required to declare their membership, I wonder how the number was arrived at...

getz · 21-02-2013 12:36pm

The puppet masters.

Absolam wrote: »

Despite the feeling we've been down this road before.....
I understood the retired police officer being investigated hasn't been named. Leaving aside the fact that he hasn't been charged, let alone found guilty of any wrongdoing (yet... perhaps), I wonder how anyone has established an unnamed person is a Freemason who has 'taken his oaths all the way' (although I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean), and if so, that his membership might be relevant to the investigation.
Interesting statistic on the West Yorkshire police. Since police officers are not required to declare their membership, I wonder how the number was arrived at...

most police services in the UK have their own lodges, and west yorkshire is no different,one such lodge is the salarden lodge 3971,who have a number of senior retired police officers as members.remember that lodge you may be hearing more about it soon,

Absolam · 21-02-2013 1:03pm

A money making group.

The tradition of trade or occupational Lodges in Britain has been common (and common knowledge) for centuries, from army to police, to plumbers, to electricians. That doesn't establish your assertions though.

getz · 21-02-2013 1:29pm

The puppet masters.

Absolam wrote: »

The tradition of trade or occupational Lodges in Britain has been common (and common knowledge) for centuries, from army to police, to plumbers, to electricians. That doesn't establish your assertions though.

if you have any doubt about the masonic cover ups by the west yorkshire police,just ask those from liverpool on who was covering up the hillsborough disaster,all the senior police officers involved[ most now retired] are freemasons.and if you wish i will name them.

Absolam · 21-02-2013 2:31pm

A money making group.

Feel free. Whilst you're at it you can tell us how many of them have been convicted, which of those have been demonstrated to be Freemasons, and how their Masonry was involved. Or just post another sweeping generalisation, which ever

SoulandForm · 21-02-2013 2:39pm

A group to make contacts.

robroy1234 wrote: »

I do however very much appreciate the dismissive rudeness expressed to myself that I am constantly told that I am ignorant and blind to all sorts of things going on in Freemasonry.

It might be considered a lot more rude to state that you are probably lying to us and know well about all the ceremonial magic and weird going-ons of the Freemasons- if someone was to state that you were a liar they might be considered rude enough to get an infraction.

I should tell you do that I dont talk to family members of mine who are Freemasons because they are members of the Lodge. If a child of mine joined the Lodge I would also refuse to let him in my house and or even talk with him.

Absolam · 21-02-2013 2:58pm

A money making group.

I can't decide whether refusing to talk to a family member who's a Freemason, but happily talking to a stranger who's a Freemason, is more or less curious than believing in magic. I'll have to think about that one!

SoulandForm · 21-02-2013 3:07pm

A group to make contacts.

Absolam wrote: »

I can't decide whether refusing to talk to a family member who's a Freemason, but happily talking to a stranger who's a Freemason, is more or less curious than believing in magic. I'll have to think about that one!

Im not happily talking to either you or him in any way a friendly manner. Most of my posts on this thread have not been directed to either you or him.

Torakx · 21-02-2013 3:57pm

Plus it would be the principle of it.Not the actual talking, im guessing.
It might be more to make a point to family than anything else.
You are a stranger, so have no bearing on anyones life here I would hope.

enno99 · 21-02-2013 7:21pm

robroy1234 wrote: »

Enno - I think you are confusing Freemasonry with Star Wars and the Jedi/Sith, with the Dark Side stuff. It would be great if we did have such powers. I have been in Freemasonry for about 10 years now and meet regularly with members who have been in Freemasonry for over 50 years and suffice it to say there are no terrible secrets, I do collect books, leaflets, and documents related to all things connected with Freemasonry, the Knight Templars, Rosicrucians, and just about everything else concerning the mysteries, myths, legends and history. I am a big fan of Celtic mythology especially the obscure myths.

As for escaping the wife - I don't think so., I am fortunate to have an outrageously gorgeous wife who is hotter than a park bench painted black in the middle of the Sahara at midday in July., however going to the lodge meetings gives her a break from me and not the other way round.

I do however very much appreciate the dismissive rudeness expressed to myself that I am constantly told that I am ignorant and blind to all sorts of things going on in Freemasonry.

Answer to the first question was in there

what about 2 and 3

How long do you think it would take for a mason to be fully aware of all aspects of freemasonry

Do you have someone in your lodge who could guide you in the esoteric aspects of the craft

Absolam · 22-02-2013 4:44am

A money making group.

That's two very loaded questions there.

Firstly, it might help to be more specific about what you mean by 'all aspects of Freemasonry'. For instance, it could take many years for a Mason to be fully aware of all the financial aspects of just his own Lodge; some Lodges have been operating continually for hundreds of years, and have entire rooms full of financial records; that's a lot of Treasurers' reports to go through and understand. Some Lodge historians spend decades researching the history of just their own Lodge; researching every aspect of the history of the Order could be the work of a lifetime, maybe more. Knowing everything that can be known about every aspect of Freemasonry would seem a daunting task. However, to forestall the obvious rebuttal, just because a Master Mason in Cork doesn't know the ins and outs of the finances of the Grand Lodge of Virginia, it doesn't follow that an organisation can exist within the organisation without the knowledge of the membership; all Lodges are required to submit membership lists, minutes, finances and capitation to their Grand Lodge, and appendant bodies do the same to their governing bodies. Any body existing within the Order shows up even it's just the minutiae of insurance costs and paper use.

Secondly, most Lodges would not provide someone to guide members in the esoteric aspects of the Craft. Primarily because Esoterica is a very subjective subject which is driven more by an individuals interest in the subject generally, than any content in Freemasonry. Some 'esoteric' Masons will find aspects of Freemasonry which illuminate their understanding of the Rapture, other 'esoteric' Masons will find the same aspects deepen their understanding of Wicca, or reveal the depths of Qubalah. It's more the perspective than the content. For instance, the author you linked has also written an essay on the esoteric Masonic aspects of the game of Chess. It doesn't mean Freemasons invented, or influenced, Chess, it just means he's really into seeing Masonic esoterica in things. By the way Pietra Stones is a fantastic website. There's lots of brilliant content there, but don't mistake it for a definitive guide to the content of Freemasonry; it's more of a paper review journal for Masonic scholars (whether they're Masons or not), and there are plenty of conflicting opinions and ideas on there, none of which represent an 'official' stance of Freemasonry. Still well worth a read though.

robroy1234 · 22-02-2013 9:17am

Getz - what has the lodges in the UK have to do with Ireland? Soul - sounds like you have issues with many other people as well as family. Blood is thicker than water and one should never be estranged from one's family.

Enno - I am curious to what "aspect" of Freemasonry you are referring to, if you care to elaborate further that would be great.

getz · 22-02-2013 12:06pm

The puppet masters.

robroy1234 wrote: »

Getz - what has the lodges in the UK have to do with Ireland? Soul - sounds like you have issues with many other people as well as family. Blood is thicker than water and one should never be estranged from one's family.

Enno - I am curious to what "aspect" of Freemasonry you are referring to, if you care to elaborate further that would be great.

sorry but this thread is about freemasons, it does not say only irish freemasons

robroy1234 · 22-02-2013 1:07pm

Getz - The Grand Lodge of Ireland deals only with Freemasonry here in Ireland, the United Grand Lodge of England deals with Freemasonry in England and Wales. We are a totally separate entity and even though our respective Grand Lodges acknowledges each others status, there is no jurisdiction issues between the Grand Lodge of Ireland and United Grand Lodge of England. For questions concerning matters on Freemasonry in General such as "what is the purpose of the checkered floor? etc., then that could be answered. But, continually going on about events in England and then trying to transplant them here is entirely inappropriate and does not fit in with the discussions.

As in relation to the Saville case and the Yorkshire police, you will see that Jimmy Saville was extremely close to the British Royals and was also you can see below the list of honours that was bestowed on him - he was never a Freemason and this carry on about Savile and Freemasons is the invention of David Icke and co.
In the 1972 New Year Honours, Savile was appointed Officer of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire (OBE),[123] which he appended to his signature.
In the 1970s he was awarded an honorary green beret by the Royal Marines for completing the Royal Marine Commando speed march, 30 miles (48 km) across Dartmoor carrying 30 pounds (14 kg) of kit.[124] Following the allegations of child abuse, the Royal Marines have "erased" the award.[125]
Madame Tussauds London unveiled a waxwork likeness of him[126] in 1986. It was retired in the 1990s.[127]
In the 1990 Queen's Birthday Honours he was made a Knight Bachelor "for charitable services".[128] Following the allegations of sexual abuse, British Prime Minister David Cameron indicated in October 2012 that it would be possible for Savile's honours to be rescinded by the Honours Forfeiture Committee.[129]
Savile was honoured with a Papal knighthood by being made a Knight Commander of the Pontifical Equestrian Order of Saint Gregory the Great (KCSG) by Pope John Paul II in 1990.[130] After the scandal broke, the Catholic Church in England and Wales asked the Holy See to consider stripping Savile of the honour. In October 2012, Father Federico Lombardi told BBC News,[131]
[The Holy See] firmly condemns the horrible crimes of sexual abuse of minors, [and the honour] in the light of recent information should certainly not have been bestowed. ...As there does not exist any permanent official list of persons who have received papal honours in the past, it is not possible to strike anyone off a list that does not exist. The names of recipients of papal honours do not appear in the Pontifical Year Book and the honour expires with the death of the individual.
He held an honorary doctorate of law (LLD) from the University of Leeds.[132]
He was awarded an honorary doctorate from the University of Bedfordshire in 2009, which was posthumously rescinded in October 2012.[133]
He was an honorary fellow of the Royal College of Radiologists (FRCR).[134]
He had the Cross of Merit of the Order pro merito Melitensi.[135]
He was a Freeman of the Borough of Scarborough.[136] This honour was removed in November 2012

robroy1234 · 22-02-2013 1:30pm

Getz - so taking you leaning on all of this I suppose that you would easily blame the Irish Defence Soldiers for behaviour and violent acts committed by British soldiers? Considering that they are all soldiers, swear an oath to the Head of State, wear uniforms, salute and perform various rituals and rites during and after basic training as well as certain initiation rites into their respective regiments. I can get that - we can therefore extend this sort of thinking to the various religious orders and even certain sports teams. I just have to understand your way of thinking, which is to paint everyone with the same brush regardless. Which then allows myself to pass judgment on you and make generalizations about you without even knowing you.

SoulandForm · 22-02-2013 1:49pm

A group to make contacts.

This is one of the first books exposing Freemasonry- for which its author was murdered by the Lodge- and which caused the formation of a large Anti-Masonic political party in the USA in the early 19 th century.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18136/18136-h/18136-h.htm

Absolam · 22-02-2013 2:18pm

A money making group.

Actually, more accurate to say "is believed by some to have been murdered by Freemasons". Since no one, Freemason or otherwise was ever charged with his murder, at least in part due to the fact that there was some doubt whether he had been killed at all. You know, just in case anyone inferred from your post that it was fact rather supposition. The relevance of a man disappearing nearly two hundred years ago to a discussion on Freemasonry here and now probably isn't that great, but I suppose if you're looking for something to attack Freemasonry with you have to clutch all the straws that present themselves...

Torakx · 22-02-2013 2:35pm

lol I see a billygoat.
This might be worth a read, thanks SoulandForm.

On the question of the author.How do I know he didnt write the book under a false name and then "dissapear" to make it seem legit?
Is there more of a background story to help me see?
well he is the hirtorical sketch of his kidnappng.
Il try break it up into something readable.It hurts the eyes otherwise.

Captain Morgan was born in Virginia, and was a mason by trade. He commenced the business of a brewer at York, Upper Canada, in 1821, but having lost all his property by fire, he removed to New York State, and worked at his trade both in Rochester and Batavia. In the year 1826 rumors were heard that Morgan,
in connection with other persons, was preparing and intended to publish a book which would reveal the secrets of Freemasonry,and an excitement of some kind existed in relation to the publication of the book. In the month of September he was seized under feigned process of the law, in the day time, in the village of Batavia, and forcibly carried to Canandaigua.

Captain Morgan was at this time getting ready his book, which purported to reveal the secrets of Freemasonry. This contemplated publication excited the alarm of the fraternity, and numbers of its members were heard to say that it should be suppressed at all events.
Meetings of delegates from the different Lodges in the Western counties has been held to devise means for most effectually preventing the publication. The zealous members of the fraternity were angry, excited, and alarmed, and occasionally individuals threw out dark and desperate threats. About this time an incendiary attempt was made to fire the office of Col. Miller, the publisher of the book.
The gang who seized Morgan at Batavia were Masons. They took him to Canandaigua; after a mock trial he was discharged, but was immediately arrested and committed to prison on a debt. The next night, in the absence of the jailer, he was released from prison by the pretended friendship of a false and hollow-hearted brother Mason. Upon leaving the prison door he was seized in the streets of Canandaigua, and notwithstanding his cries of murder, he was thrust with ruffian violence into a carriage prepared for that purpose. At Batavia he had been torn from his home—from his wife and infant children.
At Canandaigua he was falsely beguiled from the safe custody of the law, and was forcibly carried, by relays of horses, through a thickly populated country, in the space of little more than twenty-four hours, to the distance of one hundred and fifteen miles, and secured as a prisoner in the magazine of Fort Niagara. This was clearly proved on the trial of persons concerned in the outrage, and who were found guilty and [Pg 203]sentenced to various terms of imprisonment. The fate of Captain Morgan was never known, but it is supposed he was taken out into the lake, where his throat was cut, and his body sunken fifty fathoms in water.
About the same time, Col. David C. Miller, the publisher of the book, was also seized, in Batavia, under the color of legal process, and taken to Le Roy. The avowed intention of Col. Miller's seizure was to take him where Morgan was—and where that was may be best gathered from the impious declaration of one of the conspirators, James Ganson, for several years a member of our Legislature—that "he was put where he would stay put until God should call for him." Miller was, however, set at liberty, as the inhabitants of Le Roy interfered with the schemes of his kidnappers.
He soon after put to press the first part of the volume which is here presented to the public. Additions have been made to Captain Morgan's revelations, from time to time, until we are now able to make public all the Masonic degrees of any note or interest, entered into by modern Freemasons.

robroy1234 · 22-02-2013 2:53pm

Interesting story there. Not new and been rehashed many times. But, still intriguing...

Aquarius34 · 22-02-2013 9:01pm

A group to make contacts.

Getz, Robroy is just been desperate and it's getting comical as this starts to drag on

He assumes people on here are naive. He also somehow has it stuck in his head that whatever he say's is hundred percent truth and that everyone is just going to sit here and take his word for it. It's quite spectacular given, that all he does is speak down to others, patronizes others and skips around so many issues while constantly retorting to this slogan " Freemasonry is just a club for old men to have some craic, come on folks, drink a few beers and chill out" This is absolutely hideous.

This is a discussion forum, if we want to chill out, we'll do that outside of the forum.

Just to recap on Robroy's response with regards too the "separate issue and that there is no link to Freemasonry in different countries".

That is well up there as the greatest load of bull I've read yet. That's exactly like stating, "Oh Ireland has it's own head for Tesco (which it does) somehow means that there is no connection or link to Tesco in England. The higher ups all linked closely. That is exactly the same in Freemasonry. All Freemasonry is tied up together under the one tree. They are different segments or branches in different countries, yes, but they all come from the same tree.

SoulandForm · 22-02-2013 10:15pm

A group to make contacts.

Aquarius Freemasonry in Ireland is pretty central to Freemasonry internationally- in terms of "quality" and power Irish Freemasonry is not very important. Sadly.

Aquarius34 · 22-02-2013 11:59pm

A group to make contacts.

SoulandForm wrote: »

Aquarius Freemasonry in Ireland is pretty central to Freemasonry internationally- in terms of "quality" and power Irish Freemasonry is not very important. Sadly.

I know. I am interested in why you express a sense of disappointment with it.
Ireland is a puppet country in every way and it was never a place of power or centralization. It was a thorn in the side to the centralization of power and control for thousands of years. Ireland was never going to be fully part of the amalgamation of the hierarchy for the reasons mentioned above. The focus in this country is to keep this land in their control just as the British spent the last thousand years tying to do just that.

The good news, is the British and elite don't have control over this land anymore.

Aquarius34 · 23-02-2013 12:06am

A group to make contacts.

It's like the elite system here too. They literally have no power whatsoever. In fact our political system is so beyond inept that the only reason we have a political system that still surviving as it currently does is because Irish politicians are one of the highest paid in the world and the people of this county think we are fully independent, (which we are from from). 90 percent of the politicians in this country are absolutely fcuking braindead. They don't know anything about anything. They've handed all the decision making to outside sources and foreign handling. It doesn't take even a rocket scientist to work that one out!

Absolam · 23-02-2013 1:49am

A money making group.

SoulandForm wrote: »

Aquarius Freemasonry in Ireland is pretty central to Freemasonry internationally- in terms of "quality" and power Irish Freemasonry is not very important. Sadly.

Is that posting just for the sake of posting? I can't see any sense in either the first or second statement.... I think you're trying to needle Freemasons on the forum,but don't have an actual point to use. Sad indeed.

Torakx · 23-02-2013 2:12am

Aquarius34 wrote: »

I know. I am interested in why you express a sense of disappointment with it.
Ireland is a puppet country in every way and it was never a place of power or centralization. It was a thorn in the side to the centralization of power and control for thousands of years. Ireland was never going to be fully part of the amalgamation of the hierarchy for the reasons mentioned above. The focus in this country is to keep this land in their control just as the British spent the last thousand years tying to do just that.

The good news, is the British and elite don't have control over this land anymore.

Yes now its the Jews lol
Sorry all, goldman&sachs joke there.

robroy1234 · 23-02-2013 10:17am

Aquarius - you are a miserable sod and little wonder that you hate other people who do whatever they want to enjoy life. That is mainly the reason you are on this forum - because everyone avoids and ignores you in your ranting and raving and this is the only outlet to vent your paranoia. Cheer up and start enjoying life, relax, have a drink, and meet a decent woman (if not an indecent woman - which is even better).

I wish we were part of an International organisation then at least I wouldn't, like most people here, suffer Ryanair. As for getting rid of the British elitism, that was only achieved to a greater level with a few "Landlords and Aristocrats" staying - albeit very quietly. But, that is on a different forum here.

On the whole if you all believe that we are a kind of Mafia- God Father type organisation - then that is entirely up to you. I don't mind being a Don Corleone but I can tell you all that doing the meetings with cotton wool in my mouth is quite difficult, but hey I will give a go.

SoulandForm · 23-02-2013 10:39am

A group to make contacts.

OUCH!

I meant to write IS very important- on a spiritual level- within the world of Freemasonry. Though Freemasonry does not have the power in southern Ireland that it does have in the UK. A lot of the American Revolution was planned out by Freemasons in Dublin.

QUOTE=Aquarius34;83354680]I know. I am interested in why you express a sense of disappointment with it.
Ireland is a puppet country in every way and it was never a place of power or centralization. It was a thorn in the side to the centralization of power and control for thousands of years. Ireland was never going to be fully part of the amalgamation of the hierarchy for the reasons mentioned above. The focus in this country is to keep this land in their control just as the British spent the last thousand years tying to do just that.

The good news, is the British and elite don't have control over this land anymore.

[/QUOTE]

getz · 23-02-2013 10:47am

The puppet masters.

dont you just love it,www.bilderberg.org/masons.htm

The Freemasons

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