Time limit for dole?

_feedback_ · 24-01-2012 10:17AM #1

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It is reported the Government is considering a time limit for social welfare recipients to find an alternative to being on the dole.

According to reports in the Irish Daily Mail, those on social welfare will have their payments cut if they do not meet the deadline.

The report says that every unemployed person in the country will be given what is termed a "prediction of exit" date under the plan to be unveiled next week.

It is understood that if they fail to make progress by this date, they will be called to an interview to explain why and could have their benefits cut if they fail to cooperate.

So Mrs Burton reckons that there are still people on the dole when they don't need to be.

I would say she is correct there. But surely the majority certainly want to work? Why spend money on interviewing wasters, the local offices surely have the knowledge already. Just make people show they are looking for work.

If they cut out the pile of shíte internship scheme, which is destroying anyones chances of getting a low skilled paid job, everyone would be better off.

You are looking in the wrong places Joan!

smash · 24-01-2012 10:21AM

elviscostello wrote: »

But surely the majority certainly want to work?

But even if 25% don't want to work and this gives them a kick in the ass, it'll be worth it.

Here's the figures over the last few years and even when businesses were thriving there were still a lot who didn't work http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/labourmarket/principalstatistics/

hondasam · 24-01-2012 10:22AM

It is time social welfare fraud was stopped, anyone signing on for more than six months should have to explain themselves.
I would go as far as to say after six months on the dole payments should be reduced.

Mr Benevolent · 24-01-2012 10:25AM

Time limits are a good idea, no doubt about that.

AeoNGriM · 24-01-2012 10:28AM

elviscostello wrote: »

Link

So Mrs Burton reckons that there are still people on the dole when they don't need to be.

I would say she is correct there. But surely the majority certainly want to work? Why spend money on interviewing wasters, the local offices surely have the knowledge already. Just make people show they are looking for work.

If they cut out the pile of shíte internship scheme, which is destroying anyones chances of getting a low skilled paid job, everyone would be better off.

You are looking in the wrong places Joan!

They used to do this not long ago, not sure about now. Jobseekers had to fill in a GSW form, Genuinely Seeking Work listing names of places they had applied for work and who they spoke to. I remember being asked to get it signed too.

Kirby · 24-01-2012 10:32AM

AeoNGriM wrote: »

They used to do this not long ago, not sure about now. Jobseekers had to fill in a GSW form, Genuinely Seeking Work listing names of places they had applied for work and who they spoke to. I remember being asked to get it signed too.

They still do this. You have to fill out a form every six months or so and provide written proof of failed applications, interviews etc.

Honestly, the militant "Spungerrrrs on da dole" brigade that show their faces everytime a thread like this rolls around are obviously already in employment. It's very, very easy to have a go at people struggling when you have a job yourself. Put yourselvs in their shoes for a minute please everyone before the flaming begins.

Cú Giobach · 24-01-2012 10:35AM

In 2001 unemployment was at 3.7%, in a workforce of 2,000,000 this is 74,000.
According to the figures above, last summer there were 304,000 unemployed, this shows 229,000 people who would work if they could. Lets cut their benefits.
Just as a very rough guide this shows the actual reality, something governments aren't interested in.

monkeypants · 24-01-2012 10:35AM

I agree with the idea, but don't implement it in the middle of a recession/depression. I was job searching like mad and still managed to be on the dole for fourteen months. Back working and paying my way again since October '10. Delighted.

danniemcq · 24-01-2012 10:38AM

Ray Darcy just on about this earlier

Saying og there are no jobs so get jobs and most people will want to work.

Yes Ray most people will want to work but this is not aimed at them, this is aimed at the ones who sign on as soon as they can and don't sign off ever!

If you have been trying to get a job and can show this you have nothing to fear from this.

Nobody would have a problem with that

Nothingbetter2d · 24-01-2012 10:39AM

hondasam wrote: »

It is time social welfare fraud was stopped, anyone signing on for more than six months should have to explain themselves.
I would go as far as to say after six months on the dole payments should be reduced.

with that rotten attitude i hope you lose your job.

while i agree that the government must create more of an incentive for people to get back to work... they first need to prioritise getting actual jobs FOR people to apply for before penalising people that are out of work due to lack of jobs.

ejmaztec · 24-01-2012 10:40AM

Joan's only pissed off because she can't think of a new method to massage the unemployment figures. People just aren't emigrating quick enough.

Perhaps she get the dole offices to diversify into becoming travel agents, handing out travel brochures and complimentary suitcases.

Fran1985 · 24-01-2012 10:41AM

once it mentioned Daily Mail, i gave up.

While i agree completely with the concept, that paper is a regular bull-sh/ter so don't need to worry too much about it.

However, if you've been on the dole for more than 10 years you should be cut straight away. You clearly sat around scratching during the good times and made no effort so you don't deserve them now. After 5 years, payments should be halved. I'd go with broad time scales like that because its a tough job market so you have to give people some credit.

Great idea, just wouldn't get my hopes up, given the original source

_feedback_ · 24-01-2012 10:41AM

hondasam wrote: »

It is time social welfare fraud was stopped, anyone signing on for more than six months should have to explain themselves.
I would go as far as to say after six months on the dole payments should be reduced.

But every person doesn't have the same circumstances. It's unfair to say that six months is enough time for anyone to get a job. It is extremely tough out there at the moment. I know one person who has been applying and applying and applying for upwards of a year and just recently got a (low skilled/paid) job. Are they lazy and performing welfare fraud? Nope.

Kirby wrote: »

Honestly, the militant "Spungerrrrs on da dole" brigade that show their faces everytime a thread like this rolls around are obviously already in employment.

I agree that the vast majority want a job and are trying to get a job, but there is most certainly a massive amount of people who are indeed "Spungerrrrs on da dole". I just don't think everyone should be tarred with the one brush.

chrismon · 24-01-2012 10:43AM

I agree that people who have no interest in work should have their rates cut.
But for people who are actively looking its a different story.
I apply for jobs all the time and never get called for interviews. I'm more than qualified for the jobs.
I'd love my Dole to be cut. Scraping by as it is.

Kirby · 24-01-2012 10:45AM

I know a guy who has a Masters degree. He's pretty decent at what he does. He's on the dole.

It's tough out there at the moment. It will get better but it's going to take a few years for the country to recover.

Cú Giobach · 24-01-2012 10:47AM

Here's a question, in a situation where there is such a lack of jobs, why penalise that small minority who don't want to work, surely the jobs that are going should be given to those who want and need them.
Why force (for example) the single druggie layabout who is quite happy being unemployed, into a job that could go to a person struggling to raise a family? The state will have to support one or the other.

hondasam · 24-01-2012 10:53AM

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

with that rotten attitude i hope you lose your job.

It's not a rotten attitude imo. I'm sick of peoples attitude's here, there are some jobs out there but people are not willing to work for the crap money.

I will not be losing my job but if I did I would get another one.

hondasam · 24-01-2012 10:56AM

elviscostello wrote: »

But every person doesn't have the same circumstances. It's unfair to say that six months is enough time for anyone to get a job. It is extremely tough out there at the moment. I know one person who has been applying and applying and applying for upwards of a year and just recently got a (low skilled/paid) job. Are they lazy and performing welfare fraud? Nope.

I am aware of how tough it is out there. I'm not saying everyone is committing fraud.
It's easy to go to the meeting and produce a few letters or emails and say Yes I tried to get a job but was not successful.
I feel six months is enough time to get a job paying the same as the dole.

wes31 · 24-01-2012 10:56AM

in this town i can name at least five lads who are 30 plus years on the social and have no interest in work no matter how well paid the job would be. it a lifestyle for this minority on the dole.

Nothingbetter2d · 24-01-2012 10:56AM

hondasam wrote: »

It's not a rotten attitude imo. I'm sick of peoples attitude's here, there are some jobs out there but people are not willing to work for the crap money.

I will not be losing my job but if I did I would get another one.

so you telling me that the 433,000+ people out of work choose to be out of work? get real.... many people are trying hard to find work but cant get any... many of these people have families and morgages. They have the incentives to find work or risk losing their homes. There just isn't any jobs there unless you can speak foreign languages fluently.

i am getting welfare but im doing an internship programme having retrained from Architecture to I.T. (college fees at my own expense might i add) after the banks collapsed, because despite trying to find work and because i lacked experience working as It in an office environment i had no option but to go internship route because i was getting beat by IT guys with 10+ years experience applying for entry level helpdesk jobs cos there was feck all out there. there is many other people like me in similar circumstances.

It took my dole application 8 months to get processed... it took me 4 days after that to get an internship.... there simply isn't jobs there because every business is going the internship route now for free labour.

The Government need to refocuse on job creation and scrap the internship programmes in my opinion as it is preventing real jobs from being created.

giant_midget · 24-01-2012 10:58AM

Lads, I think most of you are missing the point of this story. This will be aimed at people on the dole long term. People that lost their job in 2007 onwards will & should be ok due to the circumstances that the country is in.

This seems to be for the losers that make it their life to be on the dole. All they need to do is look at their records, see who was on the dole from 2000 - present day.. then simply stop their payments

No excuses in the world could account for not working for this length of time.

These are the "people" that this is aimed at. About time too, People who make a living out of being on the dole are a piece of sh1t in my eyes..

Fran1985 · 24-01-2012 10:59AM

hondasam wrote: »

I am aware of how tough it is out there. I'm not saying everyone is committing fraud.
It's easy to go to the meeting and produce a few letters or emails and say Yes I tried to get a job but was not successful.
I feel six months is enough time to get a job paying the same as the dole.

Are you a politician? Because you seem to have your head in same cloud as most of Dail Eireann. Tell ya what, go looking for another job. Turn it down by all means, but start looking, like your home depended on it. And come back to us in 6 months and let us know how ya got on.

hondasam · 24-01-2012 11:02AM

Fran1985 wrote: »

Are you a politician? Because you seem to have your head in same cloud as most of Dail Eireann. Tell ya what, go looking for another job. Turn it down by all means, but start looking, like your home depended on it. And come back to us in 6 months and let us know how ya got on.

The point is I could get a job paying the same as the dole would pay me.
That is a fact. No I'm not a politician.

syklops · 24-01-2012 11:03AM

Kirby wrote: »

They still do this. You have to fill out a form every six months or so and provide written proof of failed applications, interviews etc.

Honestly, the militant "Spungerrrrs on da dole" brigade that show their faces everytime a thread like this rolls around are obviously already in employment. It's very, very easy to have a go at people struggling when you have a job yourself. Put yourselvs in their shoes for a minute please everyone before the flaming begins.

And everytime a thread like this appears the "Not all people on the dole want to be there, i'm getting offended at the suggestion" brigade arrive as well. The OP did not say "Every single person on the dole is a scrounger" so why are you getting offended???

It is a generally accepted fact that there are some people on the dole who do not need to be there. Basically anyone who was on it during the boom in my opinion.

It is also a generally accepted fact that it is hard to find a job at the minute. Its ok to be on the dole right now. No-one is saying otherwise. But if you have been on the dole for the last 8 years than something is amiss.

Toby Take a Bow · 24-01-2012 11:05AM

hondasam wrote: »

I will not be losing my job but if I did I would get another one.

hondasam wrote: »

I am aware of how tough it is out there. I'm not saying everyone is committing fraud.
It's easy to go to the meeting and produce a few letters or emails and say Yes I tried to get a job but was not successful.
I feel six months is enough time to get a job paying the same as the dole.

You don't seem to have an idea, but you're not speaking from personal experience, so that would make it a lot more difficult.

You seem to be of the opinion that you could always get a job which would be lower paid and 'lesser' than the one you're currently in. This isn't always the case. Employers can pick-and-choose now, so why hire someone who was working for years as a solicitor for the goods-inwards job? Why not hire someone with experience in goods-inwards? Or in my situation, where I couldn't even get a retail job, despite 10 years of retail work, because it wasn't the 'right' kind of retail work.

Back on topic: They should definitely look at people who are long-term unemployed. Their chances of finding employment are probably ruined at this stage, and some of the 'unemployed' in figures from before the economic crash would have had legitimate reasons to be on the dole, but something should definitely be organised around this. It will, however, as always be used as a huge stick to beat everybody on the dole.

robinph · 24-01-2012 11:05AM

hondasam wrote: »

I feel six months is enough time to get a job paying the same as the dole.

I'd have thought so as well...then I tried it.

Getting turned down for the lower paid jobs that you are perfectly prepared to do because they assume that you'll leave next week when something else comes along is not fun. Especially as there was nothing else coming along.

MungBean · 24-01-2012 11:07AM

hondasam wrote: »

The point is I could get a job paying the same as the dole would pay me.
That is a fact. No I'm not a politician.

What is your job by the way ? Because I'd love a job that allowed me to spend all day every day talking on boards.

I'm not sure you are living in the real world or have much of a clue about what goes on in it.

Fran1985 · 24-01-2012 11:08AM

hondasam wrote: »

The point is I could get a job paying the same as the dole would pay me.
That is a fact. No I'm not a politician.

How is it a fact? Go prove your point! Because, despite what ya mite think, they don't just give those low paid jobs to someone because he has a masters, or a PHD or 5 degrees. When i lost my job i applied to McD's, Spar (i was a manager in spar for 2 years when i was in college) and even The Teddy Bear factory!!!! But got rejected by them all.

They give them to students, who'll be there for a couple of years to get them through college, not someone who's goin to keep applying for jobs elsewhere because training someone in to one of those jobs costs money too.

hondasam · 24-01-2012 11:12AM

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

You don't seem to have an idea, but you're not speaking from personal experience, so that would make it a lot more difficult.

My point is I could get a job paying the same as the dole would pay me.

robinph wrote: »

I'd have thought so as well...then I tried it.

Fair enough.

MungBean wrote: »

What is your job by the way ? Because I'd love a job that allowed me to spend all day every day talking on boards.

I'm not sure you are living in the real world or have much of a clue about what goes on in it.

My job is irrelevant as is how much I post on boards.

syklops · 24-01-2012 11:16AM

Terrific. We are having a 'discussion' with two brigades, but both group are speaking at opposite ends of the spectrum.

hondasam wrote:

I would go as far as to say after six months on the dole payments should be reduced.

Fran1985 wrote:

After 5 years, payments should be halved. I'd go with broad time scales like that because its a tough job market so you have to give people some credit.

As another poster pointed out. in 2001 the numbers on the dole were 74,000 or 3.7% of the workforce. Those are the people who the Minister is aiming this at, not people who have been on it six months.

If you identified the 70,000 or so who have been on the dole since 2001 and cut their dole by 20 euro a week it would save around 77 Million euro per year.

_feedback_ · 24-01-2012 11:18AM

hondasam wrote: »

I am aware of how tough it is out there. I'm not saying everyone is committing fraud.
It's easy to go to the meeting and produce a few letters or emails and say Yes I tried to get a job but was not successful.
I feel six months is enough time to get a job paying the same as the dole.

But you can't say a statement like that and cover the hundreds of thousands of unemployed people. Everyone has different circumstances.

I am lucky enough to only experience the dole office temporarily a couple of years ago when I was put on a three day week for a while. I didn't enjoy it one bit though.

I really hope if they do think about doing something like this, that they focus on the known scroungers, and don't be dragging the decent people in for these interviews. Drag in the people who aren't producing proof of job seeking, and leave the decent people with a bit of belief in the system.

Time limit for dole?

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